YTSEJAM Digest 3337
Today's Topics:
1) Fates listening "advice"
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
2) TSO & Rosie
by Nigel Bridgeman <nigelb@powerup.com.au>
3) Fates Warning + DT Videos
by Vito Staedler <vito.staedler@alcatel.ch>
4) Big Wreck Prize Update
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
5) Re: Fates Warning + DT Videos
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
6) re: dave mustaine and wicca
by Madsag <Madsag@aol.com>
7) Re: Yet another misheard part in DT.
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
8) Christian Megadeth and My mistake
by Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu>
9) Aaaaaaahhhhh, I did it again.
by Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu>
10) RE: YTSEJAM digest 3320
by Dave Evans <dave.evans.1@natpower.com>
11) YTSEJAM digest 3332
by Neil Elliott <Images_and_Words@compuserve.com>
12) Interpretations on 'Surrounded'?
by almar@freemail.nl
13) Fates Complexity in App Sog
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
14) Opening Band for Dream Theater
by Einar Bergsmo Gilberg <einarg@colargol.idb.hist.no>
15) Insomnia
by Steffen Barabasch <TheMirror@westend.com>
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 23:22:16 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Fates listening "advice"
Message-ID: <199712090722.AA10140@crl.crl.com>
> From: Arcova <Arcova@aol.com>
> To: ytsejam@ax.com
> Subject: Fates Warning
>
> here's my two cents to the Fates Bashers.........
>
> with all this talk of the complexity of Fates Warning and the complexity of
> Dream Theater some of you have been propented to give Fates a spin....
> I will warn you right now don't expect Fates Warning to sound like Dream
> Theater because they ARE NOT DT!
Boy howdy, I shore am glad you tole us that. For a moment I thought
their studio keyboardist looked kinda familiar.
> Fates Warning has their own unique sound as well as style.. and besides we've
> already got enough bands out there copying our beloved DT stylistically.. but
> sorry Fates is not one of them.. If you want the flashiness of Petrucci's
> style listen to Fates back in the day of John Arch.. pick up a copy of Awaken
> the Guardian and you will not be dissappointed.. Just don't expect Arch to
> sound like LaBrie...
I don't think anyone here seriously expects FW to sound "just like"
DT, and frankly a band needn't sound like DT to be "good" in MY book.
(Just check out my Web page for some of my fave bands. Ywa, riight, I
hear so much DT in Ozrics.......) All I've said is that APSOG hasn't
grabbed hold of me yet, in the way that ACoS did, in the way LtL did,
in the way PARALLELS did. I'll be seeing it performed live in five
days, so maybe my opinion will change. Yea, sure, "listen for the
subtle nuances." I'll do it. Again.
> Jim Mathoes is much more laid back now..but that doesn't mean he can't play..
> clean out your ears and maybe you will hear the complexity of APSOG...
Gee, I just tooled them out with Q-Tips. I'll try listening. Again.
Repeat antiphon until I get annoyed.
> but like
> others have posted here..don't expect it to hit you over the head...it takes
> sometime to sink in...if you want music that you don't have to think about ..
> go listen to MTV.. i hear Metallica is on right now...
Gee, ha ha, Merry Christmas to you, too, and have I told you to FUCK OFF recently? This is the Dream Theater mailing list. Maybe you've heard of
them? They write long, complex songs like "Learning to Live" that
actually carry a hell of a subtext in meaning? No? Didn't notice?
Thought we all just liked the band for the cover art? Yea, right.
Go join Mitchell Foy on the Stupid Bench.
> arcova
> Fates Warning Fan Network
Aha, saith I! A poacher! :)
-- +-- ...once the cloud that's raining ---+- Paul W. Cashman ---+ | over your head / disappears | vanyel@crl.com | | the noise that you hear | www.crl.com/~vanyel | +--is the crashing down of Hollow Years.... --+---- ICQ #4151223 -----+------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 17:47:04 +1000 From: Nigel Bridgeman <nigelb@powerup.com.au> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: TSO & Rosie Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971209174704.006b3228@powerup.com.au>
Carlo wrote:
>*** In order to save this post from total worthlessness I just want to >remind everyone that TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA is scheduled to perform >(as well as show video clips of Sarajevo 12/24 and Christmas Eve) on the >Rosie O'Donnell Show tomorrow Dec. 9th Maybe they'll shock everyone and >bust into "Hounds" :)
I'd love it if they suddenly broke into "Hall of the Mountain King" - "Madness reeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiigggggnnnnnnnsssssss... muahahahaha..." That'd be priceless :)
Pity I won't get to watch it. Oh well...
Spiff
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 09:04:34 +0100 From: Vito Staedler <vito.staedler@alcatel.ch> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fates Warning + DT Videos Message-ID: <348CFB92.2932@alcatel.ch>
To all jammers:
Is there a way to get DT-videos (in PAL if possible)? There was 'live at the marquee', but they cancelled that one here in Switzerland. I've ordered Images n' Words from Cdnow; but that one seems to be in NTSC..
Fates Warning:
I bought APSoG. I really like it. Especially the cover artwork and the songnames..PARTI, PARTII ... ;o) Could any FW fan outthere recommend me another Fates CD? On the newest CD (APSoG) I like the songs 4,5,6 best.
Greetings from Switzerland! +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ |"...Out with the old useless vvvvv | | People so cold ruthless vvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvv | | Welcome in a new millennium vvvv v vvvv | | How many times must I vv v v v v v vv | | Live out this nightmare I v v v v v v v| | Can't wait until a new millennium..." v v vv v vv v v| | vv v v v v v v v vv | | NEW MILLENIUM by Mike Portnoy vvvv v v v vvvv | | vvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvv | | DREAM THEATER vvvvv | | "Falling into Infinity" | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ + _ _ ___ _ __ __ _ _ ____ + | \\ // | | / \ ' |\/| \ / /_ | / | | / \ | > | || \\ | | \\// | | \_/ S | | \_/ __/ | \__ |/\| \_/ | \ |_ _||_// | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ + http://www.inm.ch/vito + +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:25:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu> To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Big Wreck Prize Update Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.971209031534.108616B-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
*****BIG WRECK PRIZE INFO FOLLOWS******
Just a quick note to update everyone. The majority of the winners should be receiving their packages any day now. One quick point of clarification: in my original post, I mentioned the inclusion of promotional flats in the packages. Unfortunately, this did not happen. I had the flats but at the last minute a retail store in my area needed them. So I had to make a judgement call: either send out the photos, bios, and stickers as is, or order more flats and wait until the New Year to send the packages. I decided on the former. I hope nobody is too disappointed. Perhaps I'll include BW flats in the next contest. Again, thank you to everyone that entered.
Richie
P.S. Whoever has the e-mail address: markapic@futures.wharton.upenn.edu: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please e-mail me your mailing info (remember to include first and last name). Thanks.
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:26:32 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Fates Warning + DT Videos Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971209002237.12581A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Vito Staedler wrote:
> >To all jammers:
[snip!]
>Fates Warning: > >Could any FW fan outthere recommend me another Fates CD? >On the newest CD (APSoG) I like the songs 4,5,6 best.
I think you'd like Perfect Symmetry, though, be warned -- the vocals are not as ... controlled as they are on ASPoG. I like them, but others don't. They're a bit on the high side, and with his tone, it ... it's one of those thing you'll either like or not like... ^_^
Perfect Symmetry is, arguably, the most "proggy" of the albums, with some nice tripped out stuff and the like. The drummer does a really good job of mixing it up, imho... Overall, one of my fav albums, esp because of Aresti's lyrical writing (I like it better than Matheos', but not as much as Arch's ^_^). (BTW, Aresti was their second guitarist, who left before ASPoG was recorded. I suppose you could say Kevin Moore "replaced" him...
Enough of my ramblings...
> >Greetings from Switzerland! > >+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >|"...Out with the old useless vvvvv | >| People so cold ruthless vvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvv | >| Welcome in a new millennium vvvv v vvvv | >| How many times must I vv v v v v v vv | >| Live out this nightmare I v v v v v v v| >| Can't wait until a new millennium..." v v vv v vv v v| >| vv v v v v v v v vv | >| NEW MILLENIUM by Mike Portnoy vvvv v v v vvvv | >| vvvv vvvvvvvvvvvvv vvvv | >| DREAM THEATER vvvvv | >| "Falling into Infinity" | >+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >+ _ _ ___ _ __ __ _ _ ____ + >| \\ // | | / \ ' |\/| \ / /_ | / | | / \ | > | || \\ | >| \\// | | \_/ S | | \_/ __/ | \__ |/\| \_/ | \ |_ _||_// | >| | >+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >+ http://www.inm.ch/vito + >+-------------------------------------------------------------------+ >
--Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------- "..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 03:27:05 EST From: Madsag <Madsag@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re: dave mustaine and wicca Message-ID: <4e7e99b7.348d00db@aol.com>
seth wrote:
>>Dave used to believe in Wicca (or a similar variation of magic) He said that his sister was a "white witch" (cough, cough, bullshit). He used to do sex hexes to get girls into bed with him, yadda yadda yadda, While Megadeth was never satanic (they are actually quite Christian and it comes out quite a bit in Youthanasia).<<
>>On Countdown to Extinction, Dave found religion in a big way, and was explaining in an interview that although he was still Christian be believed very strongly that Wiccan magick works and is very dangerous. He said that he hexed a guy for a reason that I can't quite remember and later the guy got into an accident and had his hand permantly mangled.<<
im not sure what Dave knows about wicca, but followers of wicca do NOT cast spells, hexes, etc, to psychically manipulate other people against their will. that is totally against the religion. "hexing" girls to get them in bed with you is black magick and has nothing to do with wicca. one of the creeds of Wicca is 'and if it harm none let it be'. also, they believe in the rule of 3's, that whatever you do, good or bad, comes back to you threefold, whether it be spells, or muttering something under your breath. >>Many of the songs that people confuse for Satanism (looking down the cross, five-magics) are written about magick and sorcery as pagan beliefs rather than satanic.<<
this doesnt surprise me as most people assume any sort of witchcraft is satanic. satan isnt even a part of wiccan gods/goddesses. wicca is a nature-based religion that recognizes both "god" (male archetype) and "goddess" (female archetype). they also usually dont know that wicca has been around a whole lot longer than christianity either.
~melissa~ madsag@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:27:21 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Yet another misheard part in DT. Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971209002703.12581B-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Jon Kretschmer wrote:
> >At 3:21 of SDV (the voice over part) I know its supposed to be "i can move >out, get my own job, get my own place", but i swear i hear the following: >"i can move out, get a hand job, get my own place." > >Anyone else?
O_o...
> >i think ive been studying too hard or something. >
What have you been studying? ^_^
>jon >
--Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------- "..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 02:42:15 -0600 From: Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Christian Megadeth and My mistake Message-ID: <l03130302b0b2aeb94cc8@[128.252.105.105]>
ng was listed as "In My Darkest Hour" in the FAQ--I could be wrong. I don't really agree that Dave is a "christian"... If so I haven't heard anything about Jesus in his songs. (not that I really want to--but Christians who write music usually write about their spirtual inspiration)
OK, here goes. Youthanasis seems to be the album where Mustaine pulls off his preachy bit. First the art, Jesus is in the inside Cd tray. Crown of thorns, bleading hands, megadeth shirt. Second painting is a representation of the Madonna and Child. Of course Mustaine would never write a song woth the words "jesus" in it, it would turn a lot of people off to the music. But there are many not so subtle religious references within Youthanasia.The most obvious is "I thought I knew it all"
somwhere there's a reason why things go like they do somwhere there's a reason why some things just fall through we don't always see them for what they really are but I know there's a reason just can't see it from this far
maybe i don't like it but i have no choice i know that somewhere someone hears my voice
i thought i knew it all i thjought i had it made how could it end this way i thought i knew
somwhere there's a reason wh things don't go my way somwhere there's a reason that i cannot explain just like the change of season (ok, there's my dt content) just may not be my turn but i know there's a reason the lesson's mine to learn
If you are missing the religious references in this song you have to be blind. He is takling about that human's cannot grasp the mind of God and that he himself is surrendering himself to that will. The song Reckoning Day is about the second coming of Christ. The phrase, "Light shined on my path" in Addicted to Chaos (most tasteful guitar solo ever, too bad Max Norman screwed it up) refers to the moment Mustaine found his religion. A tout la monde mentions the afterlife (and the picture next to it displays a crucifix and a catholic priest). Elysian Fields is about entering heavenb after death (as well as a brilliant parrallel between the fall of Satan's rebel angels and mankinds penchent for warfare). Black curtains mentions Mustaine praying to god for help. The fianl clincher on all of thi sreligious discussion is that in the liner notes of Youthanasia (and I believe in Cryptic Writings but I can't verify this because I loaned the disk to a friend who covets it so much he won't give it back) , Mustaine thanks God BEFORE anyone else, including his own wife and family. There, I think that should settle that.
I also want to apoligise about my statement of Kerry King being in Metallica. I was wrong. As stated correctly earlier by Vincent Lupone, King was in Megadeth for a short stint.
Also, Dave was NOT booted out of metallica befoer burton joined. On the cliff em all video, burton's second live gig with the band has dave mustain eplaying lead and they are all together in an interview for some bay area tv show. Ron Mcgovney was not a founding member of Metallica either. Lars and james were the only founding members. Mcgovney was one of a slew of bass players and I'm not sure but I don't believe Mustaine was there first guitarist either.
Thanx, Seth
Seth Hatlelid srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu
Check out my web page at http://artsci.wustl.edu/~srhatlel/index.html
"After the confession of sins and before the Act of Contrition, the priest is supposed to ask, Do you sincerely resolve not to commit this sins again? But Father McSwain's hurry-up version was more like "Commit these sins again?-to which I could have sincerely answered yes." -Michael Ryan, Secret Life
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 02:46:05 -0600 From: Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Aaaaaaahhhhh, I did it again. Message-ID: <l03130303b0b2b573e15c@[128.252.105.105]>
quick correction, Brian corrected my mistake not Vincent.
Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, Seth
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 08:44:00 +0000 From: Dave Evans <dave.evans.1@natpower.com> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 3320 Message-ID: <199712090848.AA25427@gatekeeper.research.natpower.co.uk>
please delete me from your mailing list with immediate effect. dave.evans.1@natpower.com
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:12:18 -0500 From: Neil Elliott <Images_and_Words@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: YTSEJAM digest 3332 Message-ID: <199712090412_MC2-2B4C-9298@compuserve.com>
> As well, subscribers to the band's UK-based official fanzine, >Images And Words, will be receiving a special stocking stuffer this year= : a >limited edition CD containing almost 75 minutes worth of unreleased musi= c - >soundchecks, demos, messages from the band, covers songs. One track from=
>this CD was played at the conclusion of some of their gigs; a jazz versi= on >of 'Under A Glass Moon'.
>so the lounge-version of "Under A Glass Moon" on CD? :) Sounds good to me...
Well, what I will tell you is that he got most of the above WRONG. There = is NO soundcheck, message from the band, or the lounge version of Glass Moon= =2E Other than that, the guy really has his finger up his arse.
Neil Elliott - DTIFC
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:23:04 GMT From: almar@freemail.nl To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Interpretations on 'Surrounded'? Message-ID: <199712090923.JAA19203@freesrv.netclass.nl>
Hi everyone,
I don't know if someone has asked this before, but I'd like to hear from you your interpretations on 'Surroun- ded'. Personally I think the song is about someone finding the Light, with which I think Kevin Moore means Jesus ( regarding Moore's spiritual, religious background). Maybe some of you will think the same and have some additional notes, or you may think something very different and that I'm totally wrong. I'd like to hear from you.
Greetings,
Almar.
"Cross this bridge and come My way"
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 01:31:13 -0800 From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fates Complexity in App Sog Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971209013059.006d042c@cats.ucsc.edu>
1) To me, much of the complexity and value in Fates is in Matheos' lyrics. They always say something very meaningful to me, so if you don't listen to them , you are missing half of the message. Fates is not a band that writes the lyrics as something for the singer to do over the instrumentals. They are an integral pat of the composition.
2) The musical complexity of APSOG (for me) is much more to do with the inerplay between them and the lyrics. Several times a lyrical line will be repeated, but with a completely different musical pasage underneath and therefore have a different feel to it. Like the "Let nothing bleed into nothing" mentioned earlier, the change of one word ("did" became "do") and a different musical and lyrical context gives the line a completely different feel and meaning. Musically, APSOG is 12 parts. Lyrically, it is one song (notice that the printed lyrics don't ever mention when a part switches) , and to understand the whole thing, you need to listen to both the music and the lyrics, and see how the music drives the lyrics and provides a foundation for the message in them.
I hope that can lead towards an answer to the "Where _is_ the complexity in APSOG" thread.
__ /\ __ Chris Oates: aspect@cats.ucsc.edu __\/__\/__ +---- \_||_/ | "Still awake, I continue to move along, cultivating my | /__||__\ | own nonsense" -Dream Theater, "Trial of Tears" | // \ | \\ ----+ \| http://www2.ucsc.edu/people/aspect/
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 00:51:29 +0100 From: Einar Bergsmo Gilberg <einarg@colargol.idb.hist.no> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Opening Band for Dream Theater Message-ID: <348C8801.5AA4DCF5@colargol.idb.hist.no>
Hi fellow jammers!
I'm going to the concert in Norway 1th of March 1998 (this will be my first concert ever, not just with DT, but with any band! :) I wonder what is the opening band for Dream Theater. I haven't paid much attention to it earlier, since I didn't think I was going to see them. Anyways. Please tell me.. I keep reading about Big Wreck. Is this the band that's opening for them?
And as for the jammers who can't get into Fates - I feel sorry for you. Really. FW play such good, emotional music with a vocalist that makes screaming a pleasure for the ear. I love them, and I just don't see why anybody can't get into Parallels. That's an really easy-to-get-into album that kicks.. you name it :)
I also recomend jammers to listen to Rush, My Dying Bride (the Angel and The Dark River) and Paradise Lost (Draconian Times) as well as Queensr˙che (Empire). MDB and PL being doom and gothic music respectively.
Have a good listenin'
Best regards, Einar -- Einar B. Gilberg tlf : +47-73 51 05 31 Kalvskinns gt. 3 fax : +47-73 51 05 31 N-7012 Trondheim e-mail: einarg@colargol.idb.hist.no NORWAY www : http://www.colargol.idb.hist.no/~einarg
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:34:15 +0000 From: Steffen Barabasch <TheMirror@westend.com> To: Ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Insomnia Message-ID: <348D3AC5.69E18A7A@westend.com>
I used "Jesus Built My Hotrod" by Ministry to fall asleep. Worked perfectly.
Steffen - THE MIRROR
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3337 **************************
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