YTSEJAM Digest 3342
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Fates Warning...
by "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com>
2) UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: DTIFC still has not cashed my check after 2
by Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
3) Vanderbilt/Advice
by Derek Sherinian <0_mnedell@FAIR1.FAIRFIELD.EDU>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3341
by Ioannis Mavroukakis <ipm@soc.unl.ac.uk>
5) Re: Angra-not DT clone
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
6) Fates Preshow on Saturday December 13th
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
7) People interested in flaming only
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
8) A Pleasant Shade of Gray
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
9) Anyone have the Savatage Reissues?
by MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3338
by Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net>
11) TSO on Rosie O'Donnel
by cmustard@netdot.com (Mark Lampert)
12) Orlando or Tampa DT shows...
by ytsejam@ix.netcom.com
13) DT at WalMart
by "Bruce D. Duesterhoeft" <bduesterhoeft@enter.net>
14) Escapism, Caravan, Mom, etc.
by Jay Omega <jw@winternet.com>
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:55:53 -0800
From: "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Fates Warning...
Message-ID: <199712092355.PAA14309@baygate.bayarea.net>
> I tried to make that clear in my last post. I normally don't, but
> the implication from a few people here lately is that if you don't get Fates,
> it's beyond you. I think that's silly, but if it IS true, I want to get it.
> No one seems to want to help me out though...
If you want help on getting into Fates Warning's "A Pleasant Shade of
Gray," try this:
1. Listen to the album all the way through at least three times
(over the course of several days). I wasn't really crazy about it
until I had listened to it 10 times or so. But I found that, even
from the beginning, I liked it better every time I listened to it.
Now I consider it to be the best album of the year.
2. On the second and third listens, read along with the lyrics while
you are listening. Pay attention to the lyrics. Try to figure out
what Jim Matheos is talking about. Understand them.
3. Don't listen specifically for complexity. Just listen to the
music and see where it takes you.
For me A Pleasant Shade of Gray is a very emotional album, and the
lyrics are a huge part of that. A Pleasant Shade of Gray affects
me in the same way as Pink Floyd's The Wall or The Final Cut. To
me, complex playing is not what A Pleasant Shade of Gray is about,
even though there is a fair amount of complexity. Rather, it is
about the way everything (the music, the lyrics, the musicianship,
the production, etc.) comes together to make a very powerful and
emotional album.
But, if you still don't like it, that's fine. That doesn't mean that
it's beyond you or that you are lacking some ability to "get it." It
just means that different people have different tastes in music (a
fact which a lot of people on this list seem to forget).
Happy listening!
Paul
-----------
Paul Humm
humm@levy.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:23:40 +1000
From: Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: DTIFC still has not cashed my check after 2
Message-ID: <4A256569.000689FB.00@nschq-e-navy.navy.gov.au>
You know me that I don't like to cause any trouble with the ppl on this
list :)
but I have had enough of the bitching about the fan club already.
Understandably some of you are anxious about not having checks cashed
and wondering if you will recieve the CD.
I think that the main problem appears to be that Neil Elliott is in England
and the yankees send their cheques/MO's to the NY address and that
there is no conformation or email available for yankees to confirm that
their monies have been receieved.
But for fuck sake stop sending mail here, ask Neil about any hassles, I
emialed him two weeks after
I sent me renewal MO and I had a reply straight away.
I would expect at this time Neil is pretty busy, have some patience, I am
sure he'll reply
to your queires shortly.
graham
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 19:12:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Derek Sherinian <0_mnedell@FAIR1.FAIRFIELD.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Vanderbilt/Advice
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.971209190852.1573209A-100000@FAIR1.FAIRFIELD.EDU>
How much are the tickets at the Vanderbilt on the fourth? I mean at the
venue. Not through that rapist ticketmaster. I hope they are around
15. That place thinks it is very glamorous so it may be more.
Advice:
Do not hand John Petrucci a bootleg to sign. I saw a guy at Tradewinds
do this and John was none too happy.
Also, I love that John Petrucci drives a Dodge Caravan. Because it is
such an every day vehicle for such a superior person.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew G. Nedell
0_mnedell@fair1.fairfield.edu
1-203-256-6222
"If it's not in 2.35, I'm not watching it."
Words to live by as proclaimed by James LaBrie-
"I won't give up till I've no more to give, NO MORE TO GIVE!"
"I said, 'I love you........................good-bye'"
"So speak................I'm right here!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:21:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ioannis Mavroukakis <ipm@soc.unl.ac.uk>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3341
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971210001756.114C-100000@p138-42.unl.ac.uk>
heeeeeeeeeeelllllllllooo everyone..
Just got back from the DT gig in London...
It fookin ROCKED THE FOOKIN HOUSE...
Too dazed to write anything about it...
Songs(cant be sure my head is spinning.....(around me?) )
Lines In The Sand
Ytsejam
Hollow Years
Burning My Soul
Peruvian Skies
A Change Of Seasons
Metropolis
Pull Me Under
damn....brain stoped working...Petrucci and Co overloaded my nerve
centres....i shit myself laughing when the band switched instruments and
did "Perfect Strangers"....
More....but later...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:24:49 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Angra-not DT clone
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971209222124.15609A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Pat Daugherty wrote:
> I dont see how anyone can say that Angra is a DT clone. Sure Angra is
> prog metal but that doesn't make them a DT clone. There might have been 5
> seconds in one song where it might have resembled DT but other than that,
> Angra is not a DT clone in my opinion.
Hummm... Prog metal? I always called them melodic heavy metal...
(Thinking for a second) Well, probably, "Holy Land" is a prog metal album,
but "Angels' Cry" is melodic heavy metal (by this I mean the similarities
between this album and some Helloween-like material).
But I also don't think they are a DT clone. BTW, I always thought
that this discussion would never happen on the 'jam, since I always
thought the bands in question had such different material. But then, one
day, I saw this comparison. :-)
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 19:27:30 -0500 From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com> To: fates@tier.net, ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fates Preshow on Saturday December 13th Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971210002730.006bb930@pop.pipeline.com>
Just a reminder: We are holding a pre-show get together at the Franconia Pizza joint next to Jaxx on Saturday around 5:30/6pm. So far there are only three people showing up: Pat D, Mike B, and me. Come on, people! Send me e-mail if you are interested.
CD of the Day - Gamma Ray - Somewhere out in Space
Green Bay Packers - The Quest to Repeat - Detroit Red Wings 11-3 18-7-5 at Panthers vs Vancouver
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:50:40 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: People interested in flaming only Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971209223448.15609C-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Seroussi wrote:
> > by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> > > by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> > > by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> > > by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> > > by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> > > MFP is not a title of honor...Itchy, why don't you change it to "ytsejammers > with no life" list?
Who said it was?
> but seriously...you can group your posts into one, like I do...you could also > use private email...
There's a fundamental difference between our subscriptions to the 'jam. You are subscribed in digest mode and I'm subscribed in ack mode. In fact, I'm subscribed to other lists that are in digest mode (datheads, for instance) and I always find it highly inconvenient to participate to these lists.
This is why I don't group my posts into one. I always reply to messages when I see them, like if I were receiving e-mails from each person of the list that is sending message to <ytsejam@ax.com>.
But I'd like to know what is the difference between you seeing my name 5 times on the posters list and seeing just once for you that are subscribed in digest mode. You would have to press the page down key aproximately the same amount of time (just think a second about it -- glue all the posts I send and compare that to the posts I would send).
If this list were to be controlled, it would be moderated. BTW, are you subscribed to Metropolis or Voices? Do you know how much time has passed since the last time I received my last batch of message on Voices? A lot of time (if you want the exact date, I can provide this to you, since I archive some messages of every list I'm subscribed to). The recipe for the success of Ytsejam: being an unmoderated mailing list with subscribers of high level of dialoge. This is what differentiates Voices from Ytsejam: dynamics.
BTW2, who has to control the time I spend on the list? I don't know what were your intentions with this post to the 'jam but now I really got offended with it.
without []s this time, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:04:19 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A Pleasant Shade of Gray Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971209230105.15609E-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
You people recommending APSoG forgot to say that it must be heard at night, when all the lights are turned off, and you're on be. You know, it is an instrospective album (at least for me).
The lyrics are also specially meaningful for me since I first heard it when I was being cheated by my ex-girlfriend. I will never hear The Mirror/Lie/A Pleasant Shade of Gray the same way I used to.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:39:57 EST From: MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Anyone have the Savatage Reissues? Message-ID: <13ac9014.348df2ef@aol.com>
Hey Friends -
Just a quick question here...
I was wondering if anyone has picked up the Savatage reissued CD's from Europe? In case anyone was wondering, they've rereleased all of the band's past albums up through EOT, I think, and each one has a bonus track on it. I e-mailed Terrible Ted's Import Music looking for some info on the bonus tracks, since I heard that Zak sings some of Jon's songs, and vice versa, and that some of them were acoustic. Here's what I got back from TT's:
> Savatage Bonus Tracks
> Believe (Acoustic on EOT) > Desiree (Acoustic on Streets) > Sleep (Jon on vocals for Power of Night) > If I Go Away (Acoustic on Fight for Rock) > All That I Bleed (Jon on vocals for Gutter) > Stay (Originally for Streets is on Hall of Mtn King)
There's not much detail here. I've checked out the Sava home page, and found out a little info on Desiree and All That I Bleed. What about the other tracks? Does Zak sing Belive on EOT? I've always thought that was one of the best Sava tunes EVER, and woud LOVE to hear Zak have a crack at it. Anyway, I'm really looking for ANY info any of you have out there... reviews are cool too. I just wanna know if these are worth my money since I have all the original albums on CD anyway.
Private e-mail please, or feel free to post if you think it's Jam-worthy.
Thanks for your time!
- Matt T.
P.S. - TSO on Rosie kicked much ass today... but sadly, no, there was no HOTMK or Hounds to be found anywhere... :-) They did, however, look quite dapper all dressed in tuxedos!!
Laterz...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:55:26 -0600 (CST) From: Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3338 Message-ID: <199712100155.TAA01290@endeavor.flash.net>
>2. I wish I could remember the band and song that talks about people >desperately listening to their songs and taking lyrics to almost be their >own personal message, each time they recite and feel ownership of the lyric >they build themself up into something they're not. I've noticed this more >and more on the Jam, people inserting snippets of lyrics almost giving the >appeasrance of ownership and even creative credit taking. I'm sure this >isn't always intentional and I'm not a phsychiatrist (just a humble >engineer) but it is an interesting point and one that I'm aafraid is >increasingly annoying.
Well, I think people take a special liking to "snippiets" of lyrics because it relates to something in their personal lives, or it "hits home" with them. Also I think that by doing this, it tells something about the person sending the message. I don't see any kind of "ownership" included in this. Just strong feelings about a lyric that someone wrote. And BTW, if it's annoying............don't read it :). Same answer I give on the issue of censorship.
> ------------------- >BTW, my top 10 albums of the week : > > 1)Dream Theater - Falling Into Infinity > 2)Empty Tremor - Apocolokyntosys > 3)Shadow Gallery - Shadow Gallery > 4)Royal Hunt - Paradox > 5)Dream Theater - Awake > 6)Dream Theater - When Dream And Day Unite > 7)Dream Theater - Images And Words > 8)Enchant - A Blueprint Of The World > 9)Yngwie Malmsteen - Facing The Animal >10)Fates Warning - A Pleasant Shade Of Gray > >ARASH
I'm sure this guy needs to recieve a FAQ.....
>Hear Ye! Hear Ye!! I can't stand the ballads also... I think Derek should >put a fork in it... He'll never be Kevin... damn shame. Let's have more >LitS type songs! :) > >Although TAMP live was good... because those Dual Rects were screaming... :)
Whoa. I HAVE to post on this one. I really don't think (and I think most people will agree with me) that DS was EVER trying to be KM. You make it sound like ALL the ballads were HIS idea. Yeah I could just see a whole album of LitS. Pretty darn boring. I think the diversity of FII is what makes the album a winner. Do you really think that the BAND hates the ballads? They just wrote them in hopes of selling a 1000 more records right? Whatever......
My stand on the FW issue:
Well.....the first FW that I ever heard was APSoG and I wasn't TOTALLY impressed right off the bat. I got it because I was desparately looking for a good prog. band and people had been saying that this was one. After about a week, APSoG was all that I was listening to. It's not that it's terribly complex (except that acoustic part with the piano, THAT RULES), what makes it cool is the whole concept. Also, it's just a damn good song. To think that Jim wrote the whole song lyrics and everything, just blows my mind. Now that I have PS and NE, I think MZ is slowly becooming one of my fav. drummers. I think his best shit is on APSoG. Listen carefully to what he plays and you'll see what I mean. Especially #4 and #5. He goes CRAZY.
If you don't like it.....then fine. That's great. I could care less. Also you really can't compare them to DT because the style is totally in the wrong direction. You can compare Nirvana and Bush (not that it really matters), because they're the same style, but DT and FW are just two different worlds. Kinda like Rush and DT. Geez.............let's not start that one :)
-Loren
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:48:56 -0600 From: cmustard@netdot.com (Mark Lampert) To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: TSO on Rosie O'Donnel Message-ID: <01bd04f4$a19575a0$LocalHost@cmustard.vonl.com>
Ahoy,
Anyone see Trans-Siberian Orchestra on the Rosie O'Donnel show? It was cool to see Savatage (most of them) each decked out in a tux while playing.
· • Colonel Mustard • ·
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:32:27 -0500 From: ytsejam@ix.netcom.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Orlando or Tampa DT shows... Message-ID: <348DFF3B.1041@ix.netcom.com>
The rumors are flying about a concert in Orlando at the HOB on the 20th. I cannot get confirmation for this show from HOB or from Ticketmaster. It seems as though there is some bogus info floating around somewhere.
I am interested in going to the show in Tampa on the 17th though. I am in Orlando and have finals that week, but I think I can manage to get most of my studying out of the way by then. Please contact me if you're going to the show or if you are interested in going.
When responding, please email me at: ytsejam@ix.netcom.com as I check that account quite often. Hope to hear from some DTers! Later -SK
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:39:44 -0500 From: "Bruce D. Duesterhoeft" <bduesterhoeft@enter.net> To: YtseGods <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: DT at WalMart Message-ID: <348E00F0.1B41F284@enter.net>
No this is not a joke, of course they weren't their in person, but on one of the sample machines that most department stores have hooked up now DT was being played. YNM, but the funny thing was they were showing the Lie video on the screen. Also you could hear samples from PV and HY.
At least the band is getting some additional coverage.
l8er
Bruce Duesterhoeft
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:59:18 -0600 (CST) From: Jay Omega <jw@winternet.com> To: Just Words <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Escapism, Caravan, Mom, etc. Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971209202926.13557A-100000@parka.winternet.com>
]From: Steve.Arthur@Thameswater.CO.UK > 1. Do DT fans and followers of other 'PROG' (Yuk) bands agree with me > that the initial appeal of albums like I&W was the escapism value. The > fact that they talked of ivory towers and beautiful women in bedrooms > with shutters on the windows etc (well you get my drift..) was a great > selling point for me.
Well, that's probably part of the nature of prog music; there's a lot of thought put into both the music and the lyrics. There's lots of the imagery you speak of, and lots of songs or albums that effectively tell a story.
That being said, I don't know that 'escapism' is the right word. I like to try to identify with the music and lyrics... let them play with my emotions. I think you should feel sad during TSO's "Ornament," depressed during Marillion's "Brave," and victorious during Arena's "Jericho." That's probably the reason that DT isn't my favorite band (they're top 5, but not #1)... their music doesn't mess with me the way some other bands do. With a big exception for SDV and the original ACOS, of course.
That's not really 'escapism' though. And neither is this...
> 2. I wish I could remember the band and song that talks about people > desperately listening to their songs and taking lyrics to almost be > their own personal message, each time they recite and feel ownership of > the lyric they build themself up into something they're not.
.. it's just the opposite, in fact. I'd say this is people empathizing with the message of the music. Connecting it to themselves and their lives.
As to whether or not this is to 'build themselves into something they're not"... well... I'm not a psychiatrist, either. Just another engineer.
> (just a humble engineer)
We aren't humble! It's right there in the bible; "the geeks shall inherit the earth," or something to that effect. :)
------
]From: Derek Sherinian <0_mnedell@FAIR1.FAIRFIELD.EDU> > Also, I love that John Petrucci drives a Dodge Caravan. Because it is > such an every day vehicle for such a superior person.
Well, at least I'm cooler than JP in one respect... :/
------
]From: Stuart Brown <ludwig@frontiernet.net> >Dear Sir or Madam > My mother has requested this information > about Dream Theater and I have not. She didn't know that the address she > was sending it from was My Account. Her E-Mail address is > LudwigCBDB@hotmail.com she, and I, would like it if you could have the > E-Mail address that this information is being sent to changed to this > address(LudwigCBDB@hotmail.com) and not this one. > I thank you for you time > Stuart J. Brown > ludwig@frontiernet.net
Man, that must suck. His mother is cooler than he is. :)
And they have the same screen name? And it's 'Ludwig'?
Hmmm... Oedipus complex. No wait, I just said I wasn't a psychiatrist.
------
]From: Nigel Bridgeman <nigelb@powerup.com.au> >>Just wondering who agrees and who disagrees with the following humble >>opinion: >> >>The studio version of Another Day is the best I've heard. > >I agree that the studio version of Another Day is the best you've heard.
The old ones are always the best ones, eh?
--Jay "'Say goodnight, Dick.' 'Goodnight, Dick.'" Omega --NP: Marillion - Season's End
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3342 **************************
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