YTSEJAM Digest 3352
Today's Topics:
1) DT lyrics
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
2) Re: DT in RI - 1/3/98
by "Jeremy C. Hallum" <jhallum@bu-ast.bu.edu>
3) Re: DT in RI - 1/3/98
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
4) Possible shit storm...
by "Mr. Matt" <MattG@apqc.org>
5) Fate's Warning-Help Me Out
by Bruce Dickinson <0_mnedell@FAIR1.FAIRFIELD.EDU>
6) TSO - Help
by Todd <twwilso@students.uiuc.edu>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3344
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
8) Def Leppard
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
9) Bad Lyrics
by "Charlie Korch"<ckorch@raleigh.ibm.com>
10) Dead Beat.........Get it?
by "Charlie Korch"<ckorch@raleigh.ibm.com>
11) Re: Mortification
by "Dale R. Newberry" <Dale.R.Newberry@Walden.MO.NET>
12) Re: TSO - Help
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
13) Don't ever trust, don't ever trust the nipple
by eckie@asu.edu
14) Re: Some quick replies; TSO
by eckie@asu.edu
15) Paul's Radio Show
by "Charlie Korch"<ckorch@raleigh.ibm.com>
16) lines in the sand
by "jason braswell" <funkbreath@hotmail.com>
17) Mike Portnoy
by krackley@weidmuller.com
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:53:44 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: DT lyrics
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971211144557.30820E-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Ernesto Schnack wrote:
> Moving on...
>
> I pretty much unserstand what LITS is about, but there are various phrases
> that i've heard a lot, but have never known what they mean...
>
> First of all, the very phrases 'lines in the sand'...does that imply one is
> carrying a weight on his shoulders, like JC carrying the cross?
That's exactly the impression that I have (of course, motivated by
the image of Jesus Christ, since they talk about "holes in my hands" and
"crown of thorns" -- there's one thing missing and that is the cross,
leaving a mark in the sand where the person is walking, carrying the
cross). But we can both be wrong.
> Then theres 'enlist the den of thieves' and 'sewn upon our sleeves'...i
> truly have no idea what that means...
I have not studied the lyrics, but I think it also has something
to do with the way Jesus Christ was put on the cross. I'm not sure, since
I know almost nothing about the bible. I'll have to study both the lyrics
and the Bible, I think. I never thought that this would happen in my
entire life.
> toodle-do
> Ern
Thanks for the topic. I also have some verses from some Awake
songs that I don't comprehend fully and I'll bring them to the 'jam to
hear some comments.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:03:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Jeremy C. Hallum" <jhallum@bu-ast.bu.edu> To: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net> Subject: Re: DT in RI - 1/3/98 Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971211120135.28740A-100000@bu-ast.bu.edu>
On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, Pat Sullivan wrote:
> ----------------------------------- > > IMNSHO, this situation blows goats. The Strand was one of the best clubs I > have ever been to to see a show. It sucks that money-grubbing scumbags can > be allowed to do things like this. > > I'm particularly peeved because the owner wants to build a garage there, > when there are already 3 huge parking garages within a couple of blocks, > including one that is right next to it! > > I have a particular attachment because the Strand was the first place I ever > saw DT live (opening up the "Waking Up The World" tour). Big-time bummer. > Hopefully, the 1/3 show will be rescheduled for somewhere else in the > immediate area.
Poor Providence. That whole downtown area pretty much sucks anyway. There is just nothing down there to justify another parking ramp (IMHO).
-jeremy
+=====================================================================+ Every man, you see, is born beneath the sword Damocles, For young and old are all alive on that next beat on which we ride, And that beat is such a fragile thing, in both old men and youthful king, And that beat stands all alone, you see, between us and black eternity, And until that time, when death won't wait, let each man rage against, his fate.-- Savatage _The Wake of Magellan_ +=====================================================================+ Jeremy Hallum Grad Student, Astronomy, Boston University jhallum@bu.edu:::jhallum@dreamt.org
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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:21:57 -0500 From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan) To: "Jeremy C. Hallum" <jhallum@bu-ast.bu.edu> Cc: ytsejam@ax.com, bostonjam@dreamt.org Subject: Re: DT in RI - 1/3/98 Message-ID: <199712111715.MAA29880@kira.ici.net>
At 12:03 PM 12/11/97 -0500, Jeremy C. Hallum wrote: > > Poor Providence. That whole downtown area pretty much sucks >anyway. There is just nothing down there to justify another parking >ramp (IMHO).
That's exactly what I was thinking. They want to build a new garage by destroying the main reason people need to park in that area? I don't get it.
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ E-mail: (psull)-(at)-(ici)-(dot)-(net) IRC: DDictator WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html NP: Dream Theater - "Falling Into Infinity" ______________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:26:32 -0600 From: "Mr. Matt" <MattG@apqc.org> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Possible shit storm... Message-ID: <01BD0627.A308DC40.MattG@apqc.org>
I'm not trying to stir up any shit with "anti-DT" sentiments, but while I am a HUGE Dream Theater and Enchant fan, I also consider myself something of a critical thinker. Meaning, that I don't accept something as being so just because someone - regardless of how popular or clever that someone seems to be - says it. I'm not saying that's what any of us jammers are doing, and I'm not trying to judge anyone, I'm just explaining myself before I tell you what I'm thinking.
>First of all, the very phrases 'lines in the sand'...does that imply one is >carrying a weight on his shoulders, like JC carrying the cross?
Lines in the sand, as I understand it, refers to the setting of boundaries and the subsequent transgression of said boundaries by enemies or interlopers. I wouldn't necessarily infer that this line refers instead to the passion of Jesus, but given DT's penchant for use of religious symbolism it wouldn't suprise me.
>Then theres 'enlist the den of thieves' and 'sewn upon our sleeves'...i >truly have no idea what that means...
To be honest, I've read a lot of lyrics and written quite a few myself. And have come to the conclusion that while my favorite musicians may be brilliant at what they do, it doesn't mean that they are eminent philosophers of our times. Meaning, that they want to make music. They have a singer. He wants to sing. He needs lyrics. They want the music to sound cool. They, therefore, also want the lyrics to sound cool. So, many people often end up writing lyrics that just sound cool but don't necessarily make any sense (e.g. "Doo-wah-widdy, diddy-dum, diddy-doo").
As we all know, Dream Theater is a band of incomparable talent. It might be considered pretty silly to have all of this intricate music coupled with a singer of James' caliber crooning "Baby, baby, baby, don't ya love me no mo?" like some derivative 80's metal band (NOTE: I'm not ragging all 80's metal bands, but come on, some of them sucked!). Therefore, in an effort to make lyrics that are equally "cerebral", one could expect that the boys might make use of lofty sounding ideas and deep, well-known, metaphors (i.e. religious symbolism).
By no means am I trying to say that Petrucci didn't put any thought into these lyrics or that he doesn't have something he's trying to say. I'm quite sure that's not true in this case. I'm just saying I wouldn't try to attribute any gifted insights into the lyrics of anyone's music even if they are my all-time favorite band. After all, it's a business. Bands have schedules, contracts, media pressures, etc. that can sometimes effect what they produce.
>And while I'm on the subject of lyrics..there's that song on Enchant's BotW >thats about a friend that died..dont remember the name. But there's this >line in it: "Like a clock left in the rain". I just dont get that analogy >(if there is one).
Again I'm not sure what Craddick and company were trying to say on "At Death's Door". I know the theme of the song is that sooner or later we all die. It's inevitable, no matter our state in life or the state of our souls. "Like a wind-up clock left in the rain/like a candle burns away it's light/we all suffer at death's door/surely as day turns into night", in this context, seems to make sense for me.
Put it this way, in high school my half-assed approach to lyric writing was simply this: "People always read into lyrics what they want to hear anyway, so if I write some lyrics that are even barely related to the subject matter - using clever analogies and metaphors - people will think I'm a genius!" That was many, many years ago. I have matured much since then (and I've given up trying to be as clever as Neil Peart). But I guarantee you that some songwriters, no matter how technically brilliant they may be on their respective instruments, have not "progressed" (pun very intended) far beyond this point...
Again, I have tried to cast no explicit aspersions on any of the bands mentioned in this list, but I am prepared to be flamed for these sentiments. I submit them IMHO.
Matt Gonzales QUOTE OF THE DAY: AKA "Mr. Matt" "Snoochie-bootchie-noochies!" AKA "Genghis" - Jay MattG@apqc.org
Now let's get back to jamming, eh?
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:24:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Dickinson <0_mnedell@FAIR1.FAIRFIELD.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fate's Warning-Help Me Out Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.971211122250.57877A-100000@FAIR1.FAIRFIELD.EDU>
Hey guys, I have never heard FW before. After all this talk on the Jam I am going to go out and get an album. What album is their best? Most prog I guess? Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matthew G. Nedell 0_mnedell@fair1.fairfield.edu 1-203-256-6222 "If it's not in 2.35, I'm not watching it."
Words to live by as proclaimed by James LaBrie- "I won't give up till I've no more to give, NO MORE TO GIVE!" "I said, 'I love you........................good-bye'" "So speak................I'm right here!"
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:37:58 -0600 (CST) From: Todd <twwilso@students.uiuc.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: TSO - Help Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971211113653.10717A-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
could somebody please email me privately on what a good cd is to start out with TSO? it sounds like they are pretty cool and i would like to buy it. thanks for the help.
Todd
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 11:39:39 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com, ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3344 Message-ID: <3490255b50b4009@mhub0.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <Pine.A41.3.96.971211033057.178160A-100000@elk.uvm.edu> from ytsejam@ax.com: > > > > > On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote: > > > Ballads about child-abuse are so prevalent in the music world that I would > > find it a refreshing schange to find a ballad about something like faith, > > hope or even love (thanks Kings X hmmmmm) > > faith- Surrounded > hope- Another Day > love- LSOAD
Only one of those is a ballad though.
-Brian
******************************************************************************** "So understand, don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years. Face up, make your stand, and realize you're living in the golden years." -Adrian Smith ******************************************************************************** Coleridge on IRC
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 11:41:20 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com, ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Def Leppard Message-ID: <349025c03a80005@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <01IR0VH95Z02001J3E@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU> from ytsejam@ax.com:
> What does it say that Def Leppard's drummer uses one hand less then he used > to, and it's not enough of a difference that they need to fire him?
You know, I like Def Leppard's 80's stuff, but I recently heard some of their early work (when they were part of "the new wave of british heavy metal") and man, they freakin' rocked. Fast, heavy, cool.
-Brian
******************************************************************************** "So understand, don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years. Face up, make your stand, and realize you're living in the golden years." -Adrian Smith ******************************************************************************** Coleridge on IRC
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:40:12 -0400 From: "Charlie Korch"<ckorch@raleigh.ibm.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Bad Lyrics Message-ID: <8525656A.005FFAC2.00@ATLMAIL.IBMUS2.IBM.COM>
>>P.S. Oh, and can we leave YNM alone? It's a great song (and yes, I like Bon Jovi). I can guarantee that if Desmond Child's name hadn't been attached to it, the anti-YNM posts would be cut in half. <<
The lyrics to this song are pretty bad, but I really don't care about lyrics "that" much. I am one that feels if the music sucks, who cares about the lyrics. I think that lyrics are the icing on the cake. If you have a lot to say, but shitty music to back it up, please write down your words and call yourself a poet and not "try" to be a musician (are you listening Bob Dylan?).
Now back to DT. I have always loved DT. Music and Lyrics. But with FII, I was not as impressed. Yes I still consider myself a huge fan, but I do not listen to this album as often as I would have liked to. Some songs do nothing for me at all (I will not tell you which ones, to spare you the boredom), which has never happened to me with any other DT album.
Now as far as the worst lyric on the album, my vote must go to the worst line in DT history. "Lump in My Throat, Big as a Boulder" from BMS. I am not sure if this is the exact quote, but it is at least close. What were the boys thinking on this one?
Charlie
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:49:16 -0400 From: "Charlie Korch"<ckorch@raleigh.ibm.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Dead Beat.........Get it? Message-ID: <8525656A.0061B925.00@ATLMAIL.IBMUS2.IBM.COM>
>>Some (Commercial Music) guys were talking about the worlds best Dead Guys band. It was Kurt Cobain. Jim Morrison, Hendrix etc etc. They couldn't think of a drummer<<
What about John Bonham, and Keith Moon?
There are many others unfortunately like Buddy Rich, and Gene Krupa, but at least they got to live long lives unlike the two great drummers mentioned above.
Charlie
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:04:25 +0000 From: "Dale R. Newberry" <Dale.R.Newberry@Walden.MO.NET> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Mortification Message-ID: <199712111813.MAA18616@Walden.MO.NET>
> heh heh. Check out Mortification from Australia for a good dose of > Christian Death Metal. There is also a Christian Holy Unblack Metal band as > they call themselves. Can't remember their name - something like Vomitural > Corpulence or something equally dumb. There is a whole label over here in > Oz called Rowe Productions which is all Christian Metal. Mortification isn't completely death metal (their first two albums were, but they moved to more of a stright thrash sound later on). Some of it's a bit on the cheesy side for me, but there are some good bands there. In fact, the label was started by Mortification bassist/vocalist Steve Rowe (hence the name :). On a side note for anyone who may be interested, Rowe has been suffering from some form of cancer recently. I don't know how he is at the moment, but last I heard, he was doing better and was writing songs for an upcoming Mort. album.
Dale R> Newberry "Evil Villains, stand down from the funk." - Space Ghost
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:08:53 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: TSO - Help Message-ID: <199712111808.NAA05835@il.cs.wm.edu>
> could somebody please email me privately on what a good cd is to start out > with TSO? it sounds like they are pretty cool and i would like to buy it. > thanks for the help.
TSO has but one release: "Christmas Eve and Other Stories." However, TSO is essentially comprised of the guys from Savatage and some special guests (like an orchestra, a choir, etc.) If you like TSO, you may want to pick up some of Savatage's stuff. (I only have one of their albums, so don't ask me what to get first. I will tell you that the one album I have, "Dead Winter Dead," is fantastic.)
Oddly enough, I like Savatage, but upon listening to TSO again this year, it doesn't really do it for me anymore. They did rock Rosie's show, though. (Then again, they were playing a Savatage tune, essentially.)
Dry until they hit the swimming pool, -d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:09:08 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Don't ever trust, don't ever trust the nipple Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971211104546.12788A-100000@general3.asu.edu>
> I've seen people call this album James' best vocal perfomance ever, where I > don't see it that way. What's the majority concensus here? Considering I > can sing along to most of this album competently (and I'm no vocalist), I > have to conclude that James simply isn't using all of his talent on this > album. I think his true talent is shown much more on both I&W and Awake, > than on FII. TAMP is a given, and we know what went wrong there. But what > about the other songs. There just isn't a vocal performance like Voices on > this album, at least to me. What do you guys think?
I think it is :D. Trial of Tears is one of the most BEAUTIFULLY sung songs I've heard in a long f'n time. It's right up there with To Live Forever in my books. :) If you can sing that, I'm sure there's a band lookin' for yer talent somewhere! New Millenium doesn't have the good ol' Images and Words wailing (we have Just Let Me Breathe for those ;D) but the way he inflects his voice throughout that song is just really really cool. I mean, one minute he's keepin' it cool and moderated, the next minute he's busting his tubes screaming, "CAN'T WAIT 'TILL A NEW MILLENNIUMMMMM!" And the vocal harmonies...I frickin' love it! Hollow Years is beautiful, but yeah, kinda easy to sing along too, too.
Burning My Soul, with the "twisting, turning, losing all sense of yeeeeeeearning" is a pretty damn cool passage. Ah hell, I could go on and on.
Not to say that this isn't the others' best efforts as well....Mike Portnoy is AN ANIMAL all over this album!!! Thank god somebody still knows what double bass drums are used for! The riffage on this album is way out there (I'm still unsure if I've learned the actual guitar intro to NM, it's too easy....and Myung's just amazing on that stick), and last but definitely not least,
Derek kicks ass. :) I'm gonna miss the (using somebody else's words) Euro-style key soloing that complimented JP's playing soooo nicely, but after hearing tracks like Lines in the Sand and what he did with Burning My Soul, I'm not disappointed at ALL! How could I forget to mention the solo to Just Let Me Breathe? (it's too short, that's the ONLY problem with it).
Anyways, I'm rambling...
~Eckie wrote DTC? Savatage on Rosie? Hell's freezing over.
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:13:06 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Some quick replies; TSO Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971211111129.12788B-100000@general3.asu.edu>
Uh, if it's so lame...why is it selling out so fast?
~Eckie just thinks some ppl are afraid of distorted guitars
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:55:00 -0400 From: "Charlie Korch"<ckorch@raleigh.ibm.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Paul's Radio Show Message-ID: <8525656A.00623702.00@ATLMAIL.IBMUS2.IBM.COM>
Paul,
>>It's not like we haven't played that Xmas CD cover EVERY week on WREKage -- by request, even..... :)<<
When is this show on? I need to start listening to it, as I am sick of all these half ass wanna be stations in Atlanta. When are we going to get a real Metal station down here besides your show :o) ?
Charlie
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:40:28 PST From: "jason braswell" <funkbreath@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: lines in the sand Message-ID: <19971211184029.10396.qmail@hotmail.com>
To respond to the lines in the sand thread, I'm pretty sure, given the rest of the specific symbolism in the song, that this phrase does refer to Jesus Christ, but I think it refers to the incident where the people brought the persecuted adultress to Jesus asking him what they should do with her. Jesus responded by simply crouching down and drawing in the sand with his finger. It remains a mystery what he wrote, but when he was done, all the persecuters had left (wrote THEIR sins down, perhaps?), and he told the women to go and sin no more. jason
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:47:18 -0500 From: krackley@weidmuller.com Subject: Mike Portnoy Message-ID: <199712111847.NAA00144@mail.weidmuller.com>
Hey there jammers,
Just wanted all you drummers out there to know that due to Mike Portnoy's work with the ProMark 420N Mike Portnoy Model drumstick, he is a featured artist on the ProMark Collector's Edition Vol. 1 CD.
This is probably available in most music stores. I picked mine up at a sale at Southern Music here in Richmond, VA. Along with Mike are tracks featuring Charlie Adams, Jimmy DeGrassso, Dave Lombardo, Herman Matthews and Stephen Perkins. Mike's track is a 6+ minutes drum solo recorded live in Nagoya, Japan on 3/23/97.
Try and pick it up if you can. If not I could probably e-mail a realaudio of it to you. It's definitely worth a listen. Mike, as usual, is amazing!
Later, KDR
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3352 **************************
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