YTSEJAM Digest 3359
Today's Topics:
1) NODTC, All Gamma Ray - sorry : )
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
2) The Dreaming
by Nigel Bridgeman <nigelb@powerup.com.au>
3) Re: Predictable?... Well ya. A little.
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
4) Re: Predictable?... Well ya. A little.
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
5) Somebody's nephew
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
6) Re: Mustain and Donald Duck.
by Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
7) the downward spiral of pop music?
by Einstein H Zappa <afn39111@afn.org>
8) Atlanta show nearing sellout
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
9) Something to think about
by Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
10) Re: Variety
by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
11) London gig, Duffy Duck, and Ninja turtles! (oh my!)
by GlassMoon <ep180@city.ac.uk>
12) A Pleasant Shade of Fates (NYC/NJ)
by "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:59:08 -0500
From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: NODTC, All Gamma Ray - sorry : )
Message-ID: <v01530500b0b7d3154921@[209.50.100.151]>
>> Sigh No More --- This cd is good, but I don't like it as much as
>>the other two Gamma Ray albums I have.
Gotta admit though "The Spirit" rocks!
>> Could anyone tell me how Heading for Tomorrow is
>>compared to other gamma ray albums
Better than the second two, but not a 10th as good as LotF & SOiS. By the
way, Somewhere Out in Space should be your next purchase. If you like LotF,
SOiS is twice as good!
>>P.S. Why can't I stop listening to Gamma Ray?
I don't know. I have the same problem. If you figure out a cure, DON'T tell me!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:20:03 +1000
From: Nigel Bridgeman <nigelb@powerup.com.au>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The Dreaming
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971213162003.006ba420@powerup.com.au>
Deeders wrote:
> This was originally about a dream...my dreams are SO weird (the ones that
>I remember anyway)! They're always really big epic stories. Anyone else
>have a similar experience?
Well, now that you mention it...
A couple of years ago, after I'd finally seen "My Fair Lady" for the first
time (and loved it, natch) I had a dream where I was doing lots of walking,
climbing mountains (lots of mountains) etc to deliver a letter to someone.
I had no idea who it was until I arrived at my destination and, lo and
behold, it was Rex Harrison. Finally, I could find out just what the hell
was going on, what had been in the letter etc. etc., when suddenly my
brother woke me up because I was sleeping in.
I was not impressed, to say the least. This dream went for a few hours and
to have it cut short just like that, without me knowing what it was really
about, did not make me happy.
"My Fair Lady" rules. So does "Evil Dead 2".
Oh, and Lion Force Voltron is the only true Voltron. Accept no imitations.
Ciao
Spiff (who quit the Jam, then returned, cos he missed getting email)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:22:06 +0000
From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Predictable?... Well ya. A little.
Message-ID: <19971212201817.AAA9687@sni.pananet.com>
> > Is it just me, or does anyone else wish DT would actually throw some
> > variety into their live show? I've been trading DT boots for awhile
> > and after 2 or 3 from the same tour you've heard pretty much all the
> > tour has to offer.
I agree with you, but you also have to consider that for DT to do
that, they'd have to know just about every song they have ready to
play at any moment..and with song like DT's that can be pretty tough.
Take in mind that most bands that constantly change their setlists
are jam bands and leave a lot of space open in their songs to
imrovise.
I think a midpoint would be perfect. They can rehearse a certain
amount of songs before the tour, and change the setlist between those
songs.
And just for the sake of mentioning it, I noticed on LITS, at about
9:12, JM is doubling the guitar riff a 4th below..making it sound
extremely PHAT. Those are the kind of things that make you wonder;
did he actually think "If i double that a 4th below, it'll make it
sound phatter", or if he just randomly thought it'd be cool to do
that, and then realize how cool it sounded.
Speaking for myself, i've noticed that the coolest ideas always seem
to come by chance.
dada
Ernesto
The setlists, while occasionally changing a bit,
> > are 95% the same throughout the tour. And worse for QR, they play all
> > their songs EXACTLY the same as the album version. Forget jams,
> > forget improvs. Might as well play the album and have them pretending
> > to play on stage. Why would anyone want to trade tapes of identical
> > shows? DT isn't quite that bad, and it's always interesting to hear
> > how James sounds from night to night, but for the most part there's
> > absolutely no variety in DT live shows. Now, this doesn't stop them
> > from being incredible live, but it doesn't make me want to do a
> > road trip to see 4 or 5 DT shows in the summer if they're all gonna be
> > the same...
>
> Good thread... I completely agree with you. During the Home For The
> Holidays shows a couple of years ago, they changed the setlist every
> night. I thought it was great and I really regretted missing the Malibu
> and Birch Hill shows (especially Birch Hill. The U2 tune was
> fantastic!). Since (as well as before) then, their shows have become
> somewhat predictable. It's a much better feeling if you go to a show
> (or really several shows) not knowing what to expect. Picture this:
>
> Night A:
>
> Take The Time
> Just Let Me Breathe
> Hollow Years
> Improv
> Light Fuse And Get Away/Set The Sun
> 6:00
> Silent Man (Electric)
> Erotomania
> Improv
> Lines In The Sand
>
> Encore: ACOS
>
> Night B:
>
> Metropolis
> Lie (single version)
> Peruvian Skies
> Improv
> Only A Matter of Time
> Anna Lee
> Improv
> Trial Of Tears
> Wait For Sleep/Learning To Live
>
> Encore:
> Scarred
> Nightmare Cinema doing Burning My Soul (If possible)
>
> I swear I'd attend every show within 1,500 miles and would try to get
> tapes of every show of the tour if that were the case! This is why
> Phish has such a dedicated and GROWING following. No two shows are
> *ever* the same and no one knows what the hell to expect on a given
> night (except a great show).
>
> I know DT has this in them. They do put on an excellent show. They are
> the masters at changing little sections of their songs (UAGM has a few
> bars in it now with a shuffle feel) and linking the songs together. And
> why are they so shy about improv lately? Who knows... hopefully we can
> get another Bombay Vindaloo out of them someday.
>
> I think I'll ask Mr. Portnoy how he feels about this kind of stuff after
> the Boston gig tomorrow (well... technically it's today). He definately
> seems to be one of the more liberal members of the band in the sense
> that he'll do anything to make the show fun. *Hopefully* I'll get to
> speak with him that is!
>
> Sorry for taking up so much space. I don't post all that often--only
> when I feel reall strongly about a thread. I'm curious to see how
> others feel about this...
>
> Jon Dery
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:23:30 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Predictable?... Well ya. A little.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971213041914.10903A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Jon Dery wrote:
> I think I'll ask Mr. Portnoy how he feels about this kind of stuff after
> the Boston gig tomorrow (well... technically it's today). He definately
> seems to be one of the more liberal members of the band in the sense
> that he'll do anything to make the show fun. *Hopefully* I'll get to
> speak with him that is!
Well, I agree. And the same problem affects other bands as well
("that" band, for instance). Please let us know what Portnoy says about
it.
> Sorry for taking up so much space. I don't post all that often--only
> when I feel reall strongly about a thread. I'm curious to see how
> others feel about this...
I don't have even the most vaguely idea of why people feel bad
writing long posts. Come on, people, I guess we're here to read what
others has to express and, of course, to express ourselves.
The Internet is one of the most democratic environments that
mankind has ever created. Keep this in mind when writing things to the
'jam. As long as you don't interefere the good behaviour of the mailing
list, please *DO* post.
> Jon Dery
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:37:25 -0500 From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Somebody's nephew Message-ID: <v01530502b0b7da59fe0a@[209.50.100.137]>
>>Or will it continually spiral downward so that my 5 year old nephew >>banging on a pot and a pan will make millions.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. What was Portney doing at 5 yrs old? ..or are you talkin like, next year? I guess that would be different. Does he have a couple brothers that could join him ha ha.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:01:57 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Mustain and Donald Duck. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971212230036.1712C-100000@otter.mbay.net>
No, dude, he sounds like Poppie. Donald Duck sounds cooler. Mustain's like Poppie and Barny. Plays a mean rhythm and a decent lead, though. And hhis lyrics are great. Be well. Matt B
"That is the truth. Not the hammer and sickle; not the stars and stripes; not the cross; not the sun; not gold; not yin and yang, but the smile... Because they died, we know we still live. Because a star explodes and a thousand worlds like ours die, we know this world is. That is the smile, that what might not be is." (John Fowles, The Magus)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 02:12:25 -0500 (EST) From: Einstein H Zappa <afn39111@afn.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: the downward spiral of pop music? Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.971213020709.38875A-100000@freenet2.afn.org>
> Do you ytsejammers think that todays commercial world can be changed. > Or will it continually spiral downward so that my 5 year old nephew > banging on a pot and a pan will make millions.
Two different points you address:
Of course it can't be changed. For as long as art, any art, is prostituted for money, that which sells will be the art which is supported. We are talking about a music INDUSTRY. So don't get your hopes up at all, cause the most common denominator is in charge.
Second point, a downward spiral. Of course not. Pop music today is as bad as pop music ever was. You think the Spice Girls are bad? What about Nirvana, disco, the Fat Boys, Three Dog Night, the Carpenters, Peter Paul and Mary? It is not on a downward spiral, and your 5 year old nephew will almost, but probably not quite, be able to follow his producer's instructions well enough to make a hit record. No, everything stays the same.
[ There has only been one thing in my life worth living for, [ So it would take a true genius to fuck it up. [ Call me Einstein Hawkings Tolkien Heraclitus Darwin PKD Zappa. [ (http://www.afn.org/~afn39111)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:24:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Atlanta show nearing sellout Message-ID: <199712130724.AA29096@crl.crl.com>
My roommate Tim (who knows EVERYONE in music :)) dropped by the Masquerade tonight and their head of security told him the DT show was almost sold out, and that it would "definitely sell out." If you are planning on buying tickets at the door, you are well-advised to bite the bullet and buy them through TicketMaster in advance.
I must say I'm extremely pleased. They didn't draw more than 800 people at their last show here (Masquerade) and, aside from our spins on WREK-FM, they have been getting virtually no local airplay. I have a feeling at least 100-200 tickets will be sold to out-of-state folks. :)
-- +-- ...once the cloud that's raining ---+- Paul W. Cashman ---+ | over your head / disappears | vanyel@crl.com | | the noise that you hear | www.crl.com/~vanyel | +--is the crashing down of Hollow Years.... --+---- ICQ #4151223 -----+
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:42:53 -0700 From: Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Something to think about Message-ID: <34923C7D.459@goodnet.com>
You know what scares me most of all, above all other things?
It's that 1997 still has 2.5 weeks left. And God only knows what's going to happen. I am more or less expecting my apartment to explode on or about December 29th.
What a shitty year. If FII hadn't been released this year, I'd try to have it stricken from history. :)
-- - Mike Bahr / Prism Records - durnik @ goodnet . com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:10:32 -0500 From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Variety Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971213031029.0068d0e4@pop.mindspring.com>
>I swear I'd attend every show within 1,500 miles and would try to get >tapes of every show of the tour if that were the case! This is why >Phish has such a dedicated and GROWING following. No two shows are >*ever* the same and no one knows what the hell to expect on a given >night (except a great show).
Yup, that's exactly what I was talking about in the original post. While I don't particularly care for Phish, I'm very familiar with their music and their concert going experience (I've been to 4), and it's quite the shindig. Everyone's always paying attention to what's going on as they have no idea what's gonna happen next, and that's not always the case at DT shows. I've had people yell at me on alt.music.queensryche about this topic. They claim that the artists (QR in this case) played the song the exact way they wanted it in the studio and there's no need to change. I say that a trained monkey can play songs exactly the same as the album version - given enough time to practice. They claim that people don't complain when a movie they go to doesn't change the second or third time. I say that the next time I pay $20 and travel 50-500 miles for the second or third viewing of a movie, that'll be a valid point.
I think it's great that DT did that Internet broadcast, but wait, I'm going to hear the same show in Atlanta in T-minus 3 days. :) Takes a _bit_ out of the anticipation, but not much. I trade DT all the time, but I've never seen them live... Whoots!! :)
Take care all...
Adam http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone ^^ Tapelist w/ setlists...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:49:34 +0000 (GMT) From: GlassMoon <ep180@city.ac.uk> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: London gig, Duffy Duck, and Ninja turtles! (oh my!) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971213082234.2245A-100000@taunton>
Just to reply to one of Deedlit's posts, so that she stops feeling ignored... :)
> Voltron stuff, but bought me My Little Pony crap...bah...I did have almost > all the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles stuff...the old school crud (the dolls
Hmmm... How old are you again? I mean, I'm 20, and the TMNT aren't that old...
> Enough remeniscing...no one responds to my posts.
wanna bet? :)
Then Rogerio more or less read my thoughts..
> Don't you people think Mustaine sounds like Donald Duck? :-)
Well.. I get more of a Duffy Duck out of him.. ;) but definitely some duck variety...
> []s a bit curious :-)))), Roger...
Love the array declaration! ;) btw, why is it that ppl started quoting the entire signatures to posts they are replying, only to add their own signature at the end??? is this like a reply to the name...?? as in:
> This is John Smith
This is Achilles
.. see what I mean?? what's the point of it? just one of these things that makes me scratch my head every now and again! :)
Deedlit again.. > Okay, someone answer me THIS: why does DT only do Nightmare Cinema at > really big venues? I have YET to see it, and I'm jealous!!! ;)
I feard they wouldn't do it, but they did!!! I saw Nightmare Cinema in London!! :) and it was my first DT gig too! don't be too jealous though...
The CowGod.. > And what, may i ask, are the initials of 'Long Island Expressway'? :)
Errr.. Hmmm.. that's a tough one! I'll just have to LIE down and think about it! btw, where's your 'Moo' ???
As for James Labrie being a dick... He was actually really cool after the London show. Indeed a lot smaller in size than I expected him (and the rest of DT too) to be, but he didn't seem at all nasty to me... In fact, I thought Mike P. was in a bad mood that day! Still nice, but just not as friendly as he is rumored to be! Maybe he got really mad at that roadie for not setting up his mike correctly! :) JP looked really tired though!
Oh, Hello to John from Cambridge, if you happen to be reading! :) and Hi to Graham B. , who was obviously too drunk to remember meeting me! ;) I'm glad you managed to enjoy the concert still!!!
Ok, One last thing! :) can anyone point me to some URL about Meanstreak? I just wander what JP's wife looks like, as well as all the other band members who are mentioned in the thanx lists... And any Nitro (Jim Gillette and Michael Angelo) pages? I remember visiting one once, but can't find it anymore! Thanks!
Achilles : . "Why should we, think to care, Metalhead and : . Wont we anyway disappear?" Dream Theater fan : . Fates Warning - 'A World Apart'
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:14:57 -0500 From: "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A Pleasant Shade of Fates (NYC/NJ) Message-ID: <34926021.AA3@earthlink.net>
Hey Jammers,
I've just seen my hallowed FATES WARNING two nights in a row (for a total of FIVE times in the past 4 months!!) and am naturally on a FATES high because I experienced a part of "Ivory gate of Dreams" live....words cannot express...........
I wrote the following post for the FW mailing list but thought it would be interesting here too. I can't believe I wrote so much...just shows how much passion is involved :)
cheers, Carlo (Fates)
-------------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Coney Island High was a little better than the Lowdown in Mount Vernon, > where I saw my first Fates show during the summer.
A "little" better? hehe..I was at the Mt. Vernon show also (as well as the Danbury and South Amboy shows last time) and I've NEVER seen such a horrible dive. There was a huge bar taking up the entire floor no less than three feet from a 2-inch stage...and I nearly flipped out when some some local yahoo at the bar said "Fates who? Do they have any albums out?"..arrgggghhhgoddamnit..I saw blazing bolts of hellfire at that point. HEATHENS! Considering the conditions, they put on a great show....class act (although they were noticeably pissed...'specially Ray....he had some great comments for the bar that night.)
> 4. Why isn't "The Eleventh Hour" not considered among the great prog-metal > songs of all-time? I never really realized how great that song is until I saw > it played live. A masterpiece that needs more respect.
Who said its not? :) Well to me it certainly is a masterpiece that has my full respect because it has:
1) Great songwriting (but thats a given with FATES) 2) Plenty time changes (not that constant time changes equals a good song but its a pretty common factor in prog and FATES makes it look SOOO easy) 3) Zonder's cymbal work during the quiet parts ("I know its getting late") 4) Ray's piercing intros when the heavy parts kick in!!! ("IIIIIIIIIS it so hard to understand") 5) Melodies so strong and lyrics so vivid that you feel completely drained when its over :))) 6) EMOTION 7) EMOTION 8) EMOTION 9) EMOTION 10) EMOTION
What I stated above not only applies to "Eleventh Hour" but almost EVERY FW song. When people who listen to other prog bands ask me what I find in FATES that they dont I refer to reasons 6-10 (after I tell them that they are VERY complex to begin with)....there are plenty of bands that can shred all over the place.....but without emotion its EMPTY!! And I've always gone back to FATES when I need that PERFECT musical balance to really get my blood pumping.
> 6. The crowd ended up being pretty big. I got what I thought was a great spot > on Joey and Jason's side of the stage, where there were benches. I was able to > stand up on the bench, giving me a great view of JM and RA. But I couldn't see > MZ or the keyboardist (who was excellent, by the way). And to top it all off, > I had an annoying light shining right in my eyes throughout Fates' set. But I > would go through that anytime to see a Fates show like last night.
Holy shit...I was probably a few ppl in front of you!!! I was the second person back from the stage in front of Joey. I kept turning to wake up my friend who I dragged from work to go see them...he was beat so he sat down on that "bench" and was in past the stage. Yeah...I wanted to destroy that damned light :( My favorite part was when the whole crowd shouted back "Crucified in Rome" and kinda surprised Ray and the rest of them....saw a smile on Jim's face...too bad nobody picked up the "Zugabe" part :(...I know they would have been ecstatic if they heard that (can't wait for the European reviews!)....too bad they didnt play "Aquiesence"..(thank god they played it the nest night in Jersey or I would have jumped on stage and attempted it myself)
> The first thing I need to comment on is the poor > attendance. It was worse than last time, and > there were no more than 200 people there.
yeah that really bugged the hell outta me ('specially when the singer from DIVINE REGALE said FW were coming out soon and all you could hear were the crickets). I can understand a "little" bit considering its a week night and there's virtually NO promotion but still...its FATES goddamnit...I schlepped it over from Queens in that god-awful freezing rain to see them (and would do it a thousand more times!!!)..and it was well worth it. Last time I saw Denis Gulbey and half of SYMPHONY X there (Romeo, Pinella, Miller...hell, they live 2 minutes away!) but didnt recognize any of them this time...it was their loss :)
> The crowd did OK considering how small it was, > but you can't help but feel the band's frustration.
I also felt a bit awkward at the low turnout; maybe 100-125 ppl tops (and you could definitely tell by Ray's expressions)...but after a while I started getting into it and tried to "jumpstart" the ppl around me by being the first to scream and clap whenever it got silent..and ya' know what? the shit actually works :) I was the guy screaming "Zonder is GOD!" whenever I had a chance..even saw Ray crack up when I said it once. I was right on the front of the stage between Ray and Joey.
> During the encore (after At Fates Hands I think), they > played the ending of APSOG part 5 again, with the band > cracking up afterwards. I'm not quite sure why they did > it or what the joke was. Weird.
hehe...I do. Not sure if you noticed but the "first" time they played it Joey was behind the entire section...I heard it immediately and saw Jim looking over the whole time trying to visually help him get back on top of it. It wasn't THAT noticeable but I could tell it just wasnt "right". And afterwards could see everyone looking at everyone else like "What the hell just happened?"
I was cracking up when they played it again because I knew why and could see Joey laughing as they launched into it again (I was also getting a kick out of everyone's faces around me like "Huh..didnt we already hear this?")...and Ray's line after was classic.."Well, it sounded good in rehearsal.") > The band woke up during the encore. At Fates Hands blew > my mind. Jim is just the master. Nothing else needs to > be said. Ray hit the high notes on the No Exit material. > Amazing. There is no one better (sorry Mr. Tate).
It seems that the crowd woke up. I'm hoping that they also fed off of the better crowd reaction and got into it more. I thought that because of the small crowd they weren't going to do "Aquiesence" and just do "Monument" and say good night..but I honestly think that Joey's little flub and them doing the section over put them in a better mood.
Definitely, "Aquiesence" was as close to a religious experience as I'll ever get....something from "IGod"!!!!!! I can die in peace now. What made it a million times better was when Ray was staring at me cuz I knew the lyrics!! Word for fuckin' word!! "Hope leads to quiet desperation....when reality obscures the dream............." <--- just brilliant!
Also....if Jim and the guys really do read this I just wanna say thanks for creating the only thing that I know I can go back to when all else fails. Having a 45-minute traffic filled commute to the Bronx everday isnt easy......but its a hell of a lot faster when I think of it in terms of two "Igods" and a "Monument"...makes it seem like 45-seconds instead. Thanks.
plus....I thought you might get a kick out of my "IGod" .sig I created ages ago
cheers, Carlo --------------------------------
*Note: I didn't include the "IGoD" .sig 'cuz it rose from the ashes a few jams ago......it will be back.
-- _ __| |__ "When you know that your time is close at hand |__ __| maybe then you'll begin to understand | | Life down here is just a strange illusion." | | |_|
--IRON MAIDEN (Hallowed Be Thy Name)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3359 **************************
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