YTSEJAM Digest 3388
Today's Topics:
1) Sigh No More
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
2) Ytsejam Top 5 - 1997 Style!
by "Syrinx" <syrinx@mindspring.com>
3) DT, mainstream success, yadda-yadda-yadda
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
4) Larry LaLonde in Possessed???
by MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
5) DT ON LONG ISLAND.
by Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
6) Primus Guitarist
by Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
7) Hollow Years Single
by deviz@juno.com (Anthony M DeVizio)
8) Genesis mailing list nincompoop, other stuff
by "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com>
9) [Trade] Toad's Place, Fix for '96
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
10) Christmas, snowballs and soccer
by Robin Fernie <gecko@netcafe.co.za>
11) Primus
by MD Polaris <MDPolaris@aol.com>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3387
by WazooDust <WazooDust@aol.com>
13) Re: Ytsejam Top 5 - 1997 Style!
by Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il>
14) Re: John von Neumann
by Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
15) Live at the Marquee
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@ameritech.net>
16) NDTC: movies and DTC: web page
by Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
17) chapman sticks..
by Tim Spear <veilmaya@dircon.co.uk>
18) IO Pages poll
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 20:52:08 -0500
From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Sigh No More
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971221015208.006a44b8@pop.pipeline.com>
Pat S. wrote:
>You know, it gets a little tiresome hearing people use the word "commercial"
>as meaning "a band I like playing music I *don't* like". If the record
>company pressured DT into released what you consider to be substandard
>music, then I'd have to say, from a "commercial" standpoint, the experiment
>was an unmitigated disaster. Three months after the release of FII, they
>have virtually no public recognition, no platinum album sales, and no radio
>airplay (to speak of). You would call that a commercial success? Why would
>the record company put all the effort into the recording, and then none into
>promotion? Look around - all the bands that are *targeted* for commercial
>success get the full ride. Otherwise, it's like flushing money down the drain.
That is not my definition of "commercial." I consider things to be commercial
when they are meant to appeal to a mass audience by lowering the common
denominator. Simplified, catchy choruses (chori?). Music calculated to
generate sales by appealing to the unwashed masses. Now, let me say that
just because a band attempts it, this does not automatically result in success.
Since this experiment was an "unmitigated disaster," I would be willing
to bet the band turns to its more progressive side on the next album, with
no more "Anna Lee" or "You Not Me" to be heard. As for why no one likes it,
who can say why one band makes it an another doesn't?
Then he added:
>"Burning My Soul" commercial? Not even in *this* universe. JLMB is B-side
>filler?
Actually, I think "BMS" *is* commercial, albeit a not bad commercial. It is just
the type of safe heavy metal one hears on big city rock stations. "JLMB" is not
going to be relevant in five years. It barely is now. Its lyrical references are
already dated. When one refers to temporary pop phenomena, it is ultimately
dated.
Chris wrote:
>In Ken's dream world, where DT were guaranteed big sales no matter what
>they put out, I absolutely believe that FII would have come out exactly as
>it did. The writing is what the band wants to write, and the selection
>made for a good album, with the right mix of long and short songs. I think
>DT made the album they wanted to make musically, and that's good enough for
>me.
First of all, who the fuck is Ken? ;-) That would be Kevin! If you honestly
think this album was the result of a pure, unaltered musical process, I would
have to disagree. If you like it, that's fine with me. I *like* it, too, as a
whole, I just don't like the way I perceive it to have been altered. Like I
said before, it's my opinion.
CD of the Day: Conception - Flow
Green Bay Packers - The Quest to Repeat - Detroit Red Wings
13-3 20-9-7
vs ??? vs Boston Bruins
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 20:55:11 -0500
From: "Syrinx" <syrinx@mindspring.com>
To: "A Ytse Besides Itself" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Ytsejam Top 5 - 1997 Style!
Message-ID: <01bd0db3$79264460$82dfcdcf@w-ostrich-1>
Hi, everyone!
Just a quick note thanking those of you who have sent in your top 5 CD's
of the year. I won't let you know who's winning, but i think the top 2 are
pretty obvious. :)
Anyway, if you HAVEN'T sent in an entry, please do! Just email me (see
below) with your top 5 CD's of the year. Remember: THEY HAD TO HAVE BEEN
RELEASED IN 1997.
That's it!
- mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com
erotomania! = http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx
offical lemur voice hompages:
http://www.cobweb.nl/mcoenen/welcome.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm
maintainer of the genesis frequently asked questions list:
http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/genesis/genesis-faq.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:30:26 +0000
From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT, mainstream success, yadda-yadda-yadda
Message-ID: <19971220172846.AAA16314@sni.pananet.com>
> mind's eye, ask yourself whether the new DT cd would have included
> such commercial overtures such as "Burning My Soul," "You Not Me,"
> and "Anna Lee" or B-Side filler such as "Just Let Me Breathe" on it or not.
> In a pure compositional world such as that, I have to believe
> that those songs wouldn't have made it.
Why is it that when a prog band decides to write simpler material, it
means they're going commercial? Just maybe, couldnt it be possible
that they might actually (gasp) *like* playing and writing those
songs too?
and JLMB a b-side filler? yeah, suuuuure. Oh well, i guess thats
your nipple.
and now for the real point of my post. I recently read an intersting
interview w/ Robert Fripp and Vernon Reid in an old GW issue, and
Reid said something that caught my attention:
"Thats why its important for musicians to know what they want to play
and who they want to play to. If you want to put yourself outside of
the mainstream, you have to expect a smaller audience. I know many
musicians who want to exist outside of the mainstream, but still
crave mainstream acceptance. But you cant have both things. If you
refuse to accept the limitations of your audience, it will lead to
frustration and anger."
Frustration and anger? JLMB anyone?
So anyways, that got me thinking...speaking for myself, i'm really
interested in playing experemintal, non-mainstream music...but deep
inside, there's still that dream of playing in front of 10,000 ppl,
and have them all sing your song. And i dont think im the only one.
I'm sure most musicians who started with rock have that tucked in
there somewhere,, the rock star dream.
And i think thats also true for many progrock/metal bands (like OFB).
They want to play non-mainstream music, but want mainstream success.
On the other hand, look at jazz musicians. When they start out, they
know they'll always be playing small clubs, and that they wont go
platinum. So they set realistic goals for themselves and make a
living out of it.
Now, when you think of it, DT is doing well. No they arent selling
milions, but they're making a decent living with their music..even
enough to have families. And they have a rather large, steady
fan-base..also, they get good media coverage. No they're not on MTV,
but when was the last time you saw an article on the guitarist for
Spock's Beard or Angra in Guitar World? (although im aware Kiko has
done lessons for the Brazilian Guitar Player).
anyways, thats my quatsch for the day,
Ernesto
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:56:51 EST
From: MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Larry LaLonde in Possessed???
Message-ID: <8d4a5b7c.349c9385@aol.com>
Hey!
> Larry LaLonde (Guitarist from Primus) was in a certain kickass Heavy Metal
band
> in the 80's - Possessed.
Wow, are you serious??? I did not know that! Holy crap.... I never would
have guessed that in a million years! Possessed were some heavy shit... ah,
the memories. :-)
I was floored when I read this. Talk about coming a long way, eh?
See ya! Matt T.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 00:10:43 -0500
From: Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT ON LONG ISLAND.
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971221001043.007ab2a0@nh.ultranet.com>
Hey there! Can someone tell me when DT is playing on LI, and where, Time
etc... Also, does anyone know the rest of the tour schedule? I'd like to
see them one more time if possible, I know that they'll come around again
if I don't. Thanks.. J
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 00:14:51 -0500
From: Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Primus Guitarist
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971221001451.007ab230@nh.ultranet.com>
Hey!
> Larry LaLonde (Guitarist from Primus) was in a certain kickass Heavy Metal
band
> in the 80's - Possessed.
Wow, are you serious??? I did not know that! Holy crap.... I never would
have guessed that in a million years! Possessed were some heavy shit... ah,
the memories. :-)
I was floored when I read this. Talk about coming a long way, eh?
See ya! Matt T.
IMHO, This guy really has an easy job now! He just makes screaching noises
and occasional guitar riffs. : ) I like it nonetheless : ) Later, J
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 02:40:19 -0500
From: deviz@juno.com (Anthony M DeVizio)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Hollow Years Single
Message-ID: <19971221.030112.3590.0.DEVIZ@juno.com>
What's up fellow DT fans. I keep hearing talk about the Hollow
Years single. Well, to all who need it and are living in the New Jersey
area, go to Vintage Vinyl ( Garden State Pkwy Exit 130). There's a ton
of copies (I've got mine), and if they're gone, they will order it out
for you.
Later-
DeViz
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:38:06 PST
From: "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Genesis mailing list nincompoop, other stuff
Message-ID: <19971221073806.3344.qmail@hotmail.com>
Re the aforementioned nitwit....only someone who doesn't know anything
about metal would think DT sounds like death metal. Good gravy....that's
insane.
>Their songs I could have written, and I am not even a musician.
Metropolis vs. I Can't Dance. Not a contest.
>The lead singer sounded like a bad Geddy Lee, if you can imagine that
>horror.
Isn't "a bad Geddy Lee" redundant? (On voice, anyway. ;) ) LaBrie sounds
like Ged?? Gimme a break. James must have been screeching a lot or
something. I think this dufus extraordinaire must have come in during
Big Wreck's show....do they have a keyboardist?
Hey D-Man...I suggest you FAQ-bomb the Genesis mailing list...hehehe
maybe they'd get the point. </immaturity>
The "Fasten You Seatbelts" version of Ytsejam is nothing short of
incredible. DS is a monster. I was kinda hoping his solo would be
longer, cuz it sounded like Keith Emerson on crack. (I mean, LOTS of
crack.)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 06:33:23 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: [Trade] Toad's Place, Fix for '96
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971221063047.12404A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
Hi.
If you have a Toad's Place show from the "Fix for '96" show that
doesn't suffer of excessive bass (mine does) and is low generation (or has
good sound quality), please, let me know and we *WILL* set up a trade.
Thank you very much, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:59:57 From: Robin Fernie <gecko@netcafe.co.za> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Christmas, snowballs and soccer Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19971221125957.21e73e2a@netcafe.co.za>
Pity the snowballs won't last here - it's been 33 deg C for the past 2 weeks. Maybe it'll cool down by Thursday! Have a great one!
And I'd appreciate it if the Aussie's, Brazilians and every other soccer playing nation in the world wouldn't mention the Confed Cup - this is one South African who's hiding under a tree every time he hears about Bafana Bafana's last results! See ya in France for the World Cup!
Robin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:05:44 EST From: MD Polaris <MDPolaris@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Primus Message-ID: <ce46b264.349d3e5a@aol.com>
<< I can't however reccomend any Primus albums because none of them any good really. see em Live!! >>
I totally disagree...yes, the stuff can be weird, but there are plenty of songs that kickass...if anyone wants to get a dose of primus...pick up "Suck On This"...not only is Les an incredible bassist, but the old drummer, who played on suck on this, is incredible, and larry lelonde is damn good too...he comes up with some really wild counterparts to les' riffs...every album is good, but the newest 2 aren't so hot...great primus albums: Suck on this, Sailing the seas of cheese, pork soda, and frizzle fry...check them out...sailing the seas of cheese has some really crazy moshing songs...thats all...later. Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:34:56 EST From: WazooDust <WazooDust@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3387 Message-ID: <c932f46.349d4533@aol.com>
ANyone noticed a trend here, maybe we should just ignore any DT reviews frome the southeast (namely atlanta). Sound like the 'boys' down there that have the availability to get their word in print just don't have a taste for DT. IMHO the south wouldn't be a great place for DT's music to be accepted, after all REM is about the best known band to come from that area. Thye're not bad, just nothing near DT. I don't see a need for flames, just ignore them and we'll all live in our own form of ignorance.... I like mine.. Dave
"he finally found the sound but he's in too deep"...6:00 Wazoodust@aol.com If your flaming me do it in private, the list has enough BS on it already
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:13:35 +0200 From: Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Ytsejam Top 5 - 1997 Style! Message-ID: <349D6A5F.434D0CA3@Netvision.net.il>
Syrinx wrote: > > Just a quick note thanking those of you who have sent in your top 5 CD's > of the year. I won't let you know who's winning, but i think the top 2 are > pretty obvious. :) >
Ofcourse.... the new Oasis and the new Spice Girls.... ;-)
-- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM
"I'm American, honey. Our names don't mean shit." - Bruce Willis on Pulp Fiction
"How can you keep your head and not go insane when the only light at the end of the tunnel is another train" - Mike Portnoy
Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 20:58:55 +0100 From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: John von Neumann Message-ID: <349D74FF.4A68234C@algonet.se>
The MFP wrote: > > Once, John von Neumann said > something along these lines: "Dear man, in Mathematics, you don't learn > things. You get used to them." > > Think about it when people say that they prefer other things to > our Dream Theater. Music is a matter of getting used to also. Respect > other people's opinions.
No, I don't think I can ever get used to something like bush, spice girls, marylin manson, etc... If I'm forced to listen to them a million times, I might despise them less or even think I like them but it won't be not true, it's been forced down my throat using the same technique mtv uses.
The same thing is with true fans that must like everything of their favorite band or ytsejammers that must like fates warning/queensryche/rush/marillion. A person like that would force him/herself into listening to things from these bands until he/she is used to it. My point is, this person would not really like these songs, he/she would be "used to them."
I'm not like that (duh, I'm perfect ;), and let me give FII as an example. Ok, I like whole of the songs off DT's older albums (excluding innocence faded and maybe afterlife) but I gave up on listening to YNM, HY, TAMP, AL (+ sometimes PS & BMS) so I just use the skip button while listening to FII. I don't intend on trying to force myself into liking these songs only because "after all, it's still DT."
Speaking of which, I don't consider myself a fan of anything that has to do with art (products & sport teams are different) and I don't understand why one would like to be considered a fan. After all, the word fan is a shortening of the word fanatic, why would anyone like to be a fanatic?
Yeah, a long post from me which was not made up solely of one line comments to several people. You all better respond, especially you, Rogerio.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:07:12 -0500 From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@ameritech.net> To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Live at the Marquee Message-ID: <349D8500.4ABD80A3@ameritech.net>
I was checking out the DT stuff at massmusic, and found 2 versions of LATM. One is about $1 more expensive, and is an English import. They don't really have any info on this one. The other is German, and it says it has six songs Metropolis, A Fortune in Lies, Surrounded, Bombay Vindaloo, Another Hand - The Killing Hand, and PMU.
Is there any difference? Which should I get?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:40:47 -0700 From: Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: NDTC: movies and DTC: web page Message-ID: <349D8CDF.7A11@goodnet.com>
Good ones this weekend.
Titanic is not as fun as, but much deeper than, Tomorrow Never Dies, both of which are top-notch.
I've updated the Prism page (link below) for the last time in 1997 (expect the next update on or about 1/1/98). Included are big news about future pricing (lower, and it WILL apply to orders placed at the higher price that have to be partially refunded), a new soundboard FII-tour 2-CD DT boot for 1998 (likely my only '98 DT release), updates on virtually everything, new boots available on replica as well, and the full tracklist for the upcoming 18-song (!!) single-disc boot Myths and Warnings of Queensryche. It's as much update as I could cram onto a page for a single shot, so here's hoping it lasts a while. :)
Happy holidays to everyone, whatever religious holiday (if any) happens to be celebrated this time of the year for you, and please stay safe and I hope to see you all in '98 (and some of you tonight at the Fates show in Phoenix... I'll have DAT in hand!) Later!!
-- - Mike Bahr / Prism Records - durnik @ goodnet . com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 97 21:50:51 -0000 From: Tim Spear <veilmaya@dircon.co.uk> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: chapman sticks.. Message-ID: <199712212151.VAA07790@mailhost.dircon.co.uk>
>>BTW, can you people tell me exactly (I mean time, CD position) >>when Myung is playing the Stick on "New Millennium"? > >i think the whole song. he also uses it on another song (i can't >remember), but i think it was used on the entire song (at least it was in >concert)...
ok myung uses the stick allthrough NM on the CD and through pretty much the whole song live too...he switched to bass about 3/4 way through in london...
he uses it in TAMP really obviousy on the album too...you just cant miss the staccatto sound it gets on the bass..
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:39:32 +0100 From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> To: "'Freaks mailinglist'" <freaks@ax.com>, "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: IO Pages poll Message-ID: <01BD0E69.E06DF760@Borg.startrek.GlobalXS.nl>
A Dutch prog magazine called IO Pages, recently published the results of a poll they did. Subscribers got the chance to send in their votes for favourite musicians and all time favourite albums. I thought some of you might be interested in the results... To save space, I cut the results down to "our guys". And because I am crossposting this to the Freaks and Ytsejam mailinglist "our guys" means members of Marillion, Fish (and Company) and Dream Theater. :-) You can find the complete top 10 lists on Itchy's Homepage, if you are interested. The URL is : http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/ I haven't typed up the album top 100, cuz I'm too lazy... maybe later. Anyway, here we go...
Best singer
1. Steve Hogarth (Marillion) 3. Fish 6. James LaBrie (Dream Theater)
Best bassplayer
5. John Myung (Dream Theater) 6. Pete Trewavas (Marillion)
Best drummer
4. Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater) 6. Ian Mosley (Marillion)
Best guitarist
4. Steve Rothery (Marillion) 6. John Petrucci (Dream Theater)
Best keyboardist
5. Mickey Simmonds (Fish/Camel) 7. Kevin Moore (Dream Theater)
Album Top 100 of all time (chosen by subscribers)
1. Marillion - Misplaced Childhood 2. Marillion - Script For A Jester's Tear 3. Dream Theater - Images And Words 6. Marillion - Brave 19. Marillion - Seasons End 21. Marillion - Fugazi 34. Marillion - Clutching At Straws 58. Dream Theater - Awake 62. Fish - Vigil In A Wilderness Of Mirrors 65. Marillion - Afraid Of Sunlight
Mark - http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3388 **************************
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