YTSEJAM Digest 2152
Today's Topics:
1) TSO
by "Chad L. Cook" <ccook@bbn.com>
2) Jerry was a race car driver!
by Matthew P Robbins <robbins@aero.und.edu>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2151
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
4) Queensryche News
by jsj@ix.netcom.com (J. E. James)
5) 3rd Degree dude@ DT and Rush
by Ryan_Rafaloff@tanagraphics.com (Ryan Rafaloff)
6) Lemur Voice, Barend Tromp
by Marcel Coenen <mcoenen@cobweb.nl>
7) Mecca, California
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
8) Standing up for what you believe in...
by Maraya007@aol.com
9) Re: Lemur Voice and IME
by Wayne and/or Carole Chesser <AChesser@concentric.net>
10) new cd
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
11) Re: Queensryche News
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
12) Re: Queensryche News
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
13) Re: I'm sorry
by "Elv" <cyclone@securenet.net>
14) Dream Theater/ Dio
by Jose Lucas Perroni Kalil <gzr@geocities.com>
15) Re: Lemur Voice and IME
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
16) Re: Im sory
by Drummnstan@aol.com
17) Re: Erik
by Drummnstan@aol.com
18) Re: Lemur Voice and IME
by Drummnstan@aol.com
19) take a guess....
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
20) once again....
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:41:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Chad L. Cook" <ccook@bbn.com>
To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: TSO
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.92.970102093927.16444D-100000@achilles.BBN.COM>
Hi Guys,
Has anyone in the boston area found TSO? Every place I've been no longer
has the CD! If anyone knows where it's available, please let me know! Or
if someone is willing to pick up a copy for me, (I'll pay all the
shipping, etc, obviously :) drop me a note!
thanks,
Chad
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad L. Cook BBN Systems and Technologies
Senior Systems Administrator 10 Moulton St.
ccook@bbn.com Cambridge, MA 02138
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:59:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Matthew P Robbins <robbins@aero.und.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Jerry was a race car driver!
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.90.970102095609.22066A-100000@heart.cas.und.nodak.edu>
Someone posted about dancing to prog music and mentioned the song "Jerry
was a race car driver" by Ministry. Did they write or ever play this
song? As far as I know this is a Primus song and appears on the Sailing
the Seas of Cheese CD.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:16:43 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2151
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970102100025.9601A-100000@enteract.com>
> stuff, I just fell apart. I honestly don't know why I stopped before
> dropping the bomb on myself. I had everything ready to go. And no I
> wasn't trying get attention or to start fights.
No, you were trying to get attention, because you needed someone
to notice that you were in a dire situation. That's a survival instinct,
and you're damn lucky you have it. Don't pay any heed to the jammers with
the thumbs up their asses that complain about this situation... I never
pay attention to the peolpe that get on my case. Your situation is very
serious, and you do need help. Help doesn't come in a bottle, a needle, a
powder or a rock. It also doesn't come in the form of sex. You need some
emotional help. I have a very narrow mind when it comes to my view of
suicide, and the people who commit it.... but you haven't made that
decision. I'm not going to rant any further about this here on the jam,
because some suckholes will complain (some people would prefer this was a
list of facts about Dream Theater and not the community it's evolved into.
I will always actively campaign against that. :)
> OUCH!
> I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but this list is no place
> for this
> (BAND NAME) SUCKS/RULES crap.
No, this is exactly the place for that. Why didn't you bitch about the
other post in that jam that said Lemur Voice and IME rock? I appreciate
people who can spill their honest opinion about a piece of music, even
though it means they may get chastized for it. People telling me about
bands I haven't heard can open up a lot of new horizons, but by the same
token, if I buy things only hearing cheers of "this rocks" I may end up
with a buttload of cds I don't like. If you don't have the option of
listening to music before you buy it, then getting opposing viewpoints is
extremely beneficial.
Sorry for any typos in this letter. I'm on an old computer at work with a
maimed keyboard.
- Chris Ptacek
someone@prognosis.com
"Theory should be a description of music;
Music should not be a description of theory."
- Ron Thal
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:18:56 -0800
From: jsj@ix.netcom.com (J. E. James)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Queensryche News
Message-ID: <199701021618.IAA04175@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
There's been alot of talk about Queensryche's new album, so I just
thought I'd let you know that you can find the latest QR news in the
whats new section of:
http://www.mcs.net/~ryche/
The album finished mixing Dec. 21 and is due out in the first week of
March. It is called Hear in the Now Frontier. And yes, it is "Now
Frontier" not "New Frontier."
I think it would be cool if Dream Theater and Queensryche did a tour
together in which DT played QR's setlist and vice versa, although QR
would need to add a good keyboardist so Geoff could fully concentrate
on his vocals.
Justin the High Cleric of Lickalick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 11:25:22 -0500
From: Ryan_Rafaloff@tanagraphics.com (Ryan Rafaloff)
To: Ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 3rd Degree dude@ DT and Rush
Message-ID: <306690.ensmtp@tanagraphics.com>
Hey everyone,
So I've been to the DT show at Toad's, and also saw Rush at Nassau and
Meadowlands. At Toad's and then at Nassau (the Rush show), I saw the guy from
this prog. rock band called 3rd Degree, on line outside Toads and in the
parking lot at Nassau Collissium. He was selling CD's and demo tapes of their
material. At the DT show I was hesitant and didn't buy a tape, but when I saw
the SAME GUY, wearing the SAME THING at the RUSH show, I bought a tape. I
don't know if anyone else ran into the guy, but I must say the tape I have of
them wth two of their songs on it do really rock. It's some tight, busy, DT
feeling kinda stuff. I was impressed. The guy claimed that they are Rush,
Dream Theater, Fates inspired, and after hearing it, it's probably true. 3rd
Degree. Did any other jammers get it and/or hear it? Just curious.
Rock On 1997 woohoo!!!!,
-Raf-
---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Tanagraphics, Inc. 263 Ninth Avenue, New York, NY 1000 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:35:52 +0200 From: Marcel Coenen <mcoenen@cobweb.nl> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Lemur Voice, Barend Tromp Message-ID: <199701021635.SAA02813@spider01.cobweb.nl>
Hi there,
at first i want to comment about a question made in the last Jam, someone believes that Barend Tromp is not in the band, well, he definately is, the only reason that there is on the record : "in courtesy of" is because of the fact that he has another band called "Arabesque" who also have a recorddeal with shark records in Germany, and they had their deal before we did.
Arabesque is also a great bandm, they happen to be instrumental on their fiorst album called "Beyond the Veil", just check it out, now they are working with a female singer.
Take care everyone and a happy newyear to all.
Marcel Coenen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | --- - - | | | | | * | | | ---- ----- - - /--- | ------- --- ---- ---- | | | |-- | | | | | |--| | | | | | | |-- | | ------- ---- - - - ---- | \ ----- ---- --- ---- ---- | | | | Marcel Coenen | | Guitarist LEMUR VOICE | | | | E-Mail: mcoenen@cobweb.nl | | | | Lemur Voice Homepage URL: http://www.cobweb.nl/mcoenen | | | | Check out our new album "INSIGHTS" available at | | Magna Carta (USA) and Roadrunner (Europe & Japan) | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:36:49 -0800 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mecca, California Message-ID: <199701021836.KAA14330@main.cfmc.com>
>From: Ben Laussade <laussade@sprynet.com> > >> But every time this comes up, someone will fire off the ridiculous >>notion that the two bands sound nothing alike, which ends up hurting the >>credibility of the "Dream Theater as a unique band" argument. > >That person's usually me. :) And every time I do, I ask for examples of >Dream Theater sounding similar to Rush (i.e., this song sounds like that >song at that part). And every time I do THAT, no one gives any. Except for >Bombay Vindaloo to Xanadu...which doesn't count, because BV's an improv. :)
Haven't we...you and I, specifically, gone through this before. I mean, if you're looking for an exact cop, I don't really have anything to point at, but I'll mention a whole lot of other things that indicate, to me, that there's a similarity between the two bands:
1. "Bombay Vindaloo" is a sort of "pre-arranged" improv. The atmosphere in the two songs is similar -- that's not unintentional.
2. Petrucci's semi-clean sound is a direct rip of Alex Lifeson's sound, circa "Hold Your Fire." He's said this in interviews.
3. Portnoy's live solo is heavily indebted to Neil Peart's. Now, I don't actually agree with this sentiment, but I remember a bunch of people when last I saw the band actually complaining about how much it sounds like "The Rhythm Method." I don't think they're THAT close -- to the extent that Mike's actually ripping Neil off -- but there are certainly a number of similarities...they use cross-sticking in a similar way, some of the bass drum/tom combinations are identical, they're even arranged in a similar way (or, rather, arranged somethink like Neil's solo in "Exit...Stage Left").
4. There tends to be a large synth/sequenced presence at the head of tunes ("Learning To Live"), which is something that Rush has been doing for a while ("Big Money," "New World Man," "Force Ten").
5. Instrumental as solo piece -- "Ytse Jam" vs. "YYZ"
6. Use of odd times: Not saying that Rush invented them or anything, but they're used similarly -- from an arrangement perspective, "A Fortune In Lies" functions a lot like "A Farewell To Kings." Dream Theater uses sevens and fives a lot, and fewer 9's, 11's, and 13's, which were more popular among earlier prog bands.
I dunno, there are a bunch of those sorts of things that lead me to identify Rush as a primary influence for the band. Obviously, there are a number of other musicians that have influenced Dream Theater, as there are with any good band, but I'd say there's an influence there. If you have more and better evidence for other bands, my ears are open.
>Ben's Recommendation: Ozric Tentacles! These guys RULE! Muzt buy CDs. :)
Agreed.
Five Gratuitous CD's: ===================== 1. Rush: Test For Echo 2. Weather Report: I Sing The Body Electric 3. Jane's Addiction: Nothing's Shocking 4. Galactic Cowboys: Machine Fish 5. Sara Hickman: Shortstop
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:45:28 -0500 From: Maraya007@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Standing up for what you believe in... Message-ID: <970102134528_643584582@emout11.mail.aol.com>
At least Chris and I had the balls to do this, regardless of what everyone else thinks. As I've told the few of you who have had the balls to address me personally, I don't put much stock in the majority opinion just because it's the majority. I wasn't looking for a fight; merely stating my views, and apparently I was wrong in assuming people would be at least rational in attacking me. Of everyone who has, only ONE person has been reasonable about it. I should have figured as much. ::shrug::
I apologized for the part of my post that was out of line, but I will stand by the rest of what I said. I gave my reasons and explained why I feel that way, and if you don't like it -- tough. ;)
Jaime the Dragon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 12:51:05 -0600 From: Wayne and/or Carole Chesser <AChesser@concentric.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Lemur Voice and IME Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970102185105.0074def4@pop3.concentric.net>
At 06:06 AM 1/2/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I also got IME's 'Scenery and Fish' finally. If you don't have this album, >GET IT. And yes, Paul Northfield produced it, and all I've got to say is >listen to this album through a good pair of headphones. If this is any >indication, we're in for a real treat with the next DT outing.
Forgive the ignorance, but who is/are IME?
-- Wayne
"A different opinion is just another point of view" - Fates Warning
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 14:54:16 -0500 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: new cd Message-ID: <32CC1268.6621@caribe.net>
I just bought Paco DeLucia/al di meola/john maclaughlin 's cd Verve.. it rules so much!!!! I think this is a must for any guitar player that likes jazz and petrucci's style..it is awesome -- Seize the day, I heard him say : "Life will not always be this way, Look around...hear the sounds... Cherish your life,while you're still around... " <Dream Theater: A Change Of Seasons> WoWoW! WoWoW! WoWoW! -Mike Portnoy mailto:calfaro@Caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:11:28 -0600 (CST) From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Queensryche News Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970102130934.11921A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, J. E. James wrote:
> I think it would be cool if Dream Theater and Queensryche did a tour > together in which DT played QR's setlist and vice versa, although QR > would need to add a good keyboardist so Geoff could fully concentrate > on his vocals. > Justin the High Cleric of Lickalick
hmm... when i saw QR on the last tour, it was Chris DeGarmo playing the keys, not Geoff. this isn't a flame, i just want to know if i've gone insane, and Geoff really did do teh keys on the album...
peace, alex
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 15:15:31 -0500 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Queensryche News Message-ID: <32CC1763.30CB@caribe.net>
alex fraser wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, J. E. James wrote: > > > I think it would be cool if Dream Theater and Queensryche did a tour > > together in which DT played QR's setlist and vice versa, although QR > > would need to add a good keyboardist so Geoff could fully concentrate > > on his vocals. > > Justin the High Cleric of Lickalick > > hmm... when i saw QR on the last tour, it was Chris DeGarmo playing the > keys, not Geoff. this isn't a flame, i just want to know if i've gone > insane, and Geoff really did do teh keys on the album... > > peace, > alex
I dont know..i think ive read someting to the effect that both geoff and chris do keyboards ..dont know when and where ..but all i know is that both play keys for the band at some point or another
-- Seize the day, I heard him say : "Life will not always be this way, Look around...hear the sounds... Cherish your life,while you're still around... " <Dream Theater: A Change Of Seasons> WoWoW! WoWoW! WoWoW! -Mike Portnoy mailto:calfaro@Caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:28:31 -0500 From: "Elv" <cyclone@securenet.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: I'm sorry Message-ID: <199701021933.LAA24623@pawn.ax.com>
>Most importantly, Jesus loves you man!! He wouldn't want to see you >go out like this. He still has plans for you and
Be careful about this Jesus stuff. The promise of a life after death may actually increase this guy's chances of killing himself, believing that he will find hapiness in heaven. Look at how many people killed themselves in the name of Alah.
Elvis Batur
.men are poisoned into thinking that they have a voice above their noise. -Fates Warning
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:54:51 -0200 From: Jose Lucas Perroni Kalil <gzr@geocities.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Dream Theater/ Dio Message-ID: <32CC125B.4FB2@geocities.com>
Hi!
It4s the first time I write to this Mailing List. Well. Yesterday I bought a bootleg called " No Sleep Since Brooklyn". On this CD booklet has a comment:
" Their Amazing covers of Ritchie Blackmore4s Rainbow, (...), Dio, (...) immediatelly caught the attention of anyone(...)".
Which song of Dio did Majesty play?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> To: Wayne and/or Carole Chesser <AChesser@concentric.net> Subject: Re: Lemur Voice and IME Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.970102145516.298B-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
> At 06:06 AM 1/2/97 -0800, you wrote: > > >I also got IME's 'Scenery and Fish' finally. If you don't have this album, > >GET IT. And yes, Paul Northfield produced it, and all I've got to say is > >listen to this album through a good pair of headphones. If this is any > >indication, we're in for a real treat with the next DT outing. > > Forgive the ignorance, but who is/are IME?
I Mother Earth.
(c) 1996 Happy Fun Ball, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:48:33 -0500 From: Drummnstan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Im sory Message-ID: <970102154833_977685145@emout16.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 1/2/97 6:23:23 AM, you wrote:
<< Thanks to Stan, RipZero, Lisa, and the others who decided to reach out through my big cluster fuck. I do need to have contact because this shit that is going on scares the frigging hell out of me.T >>
eric, feel free to email me anytime man, im glad to hear your still with us
laterz, stan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:59:02 -0500 From: Drummnstan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Erik Message-ID: <970102155900_1889595325@emout16.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 1/2/97 8:37:42 AM, you wrote:
<< ps. If anyone gets a suicide note from Jaime or Chris, ignore them, they're not real. (sorry, I had to)>>
now now, we had differing veiwpoints in the situation but lets all stay civil on this
laterz, stan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:04:27 -0500 From: Drummnstan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Lemur Voice and IME Message-ID: <970102160426_238058257@emout14.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 1/2/97 2:06:13 PM, you wrote:
<< I also got IME's 'Scenery and Fish' finally. If you don't have this album, GET IT. And yes, Paul Northfield produced it, and all I've got to say is listen to this album through a good pair of headphones. If this is any indication, we're in for a real treat with the next DT outing. >>
hehehe, got this disk, for 1.99 in a flood sale, it really does kick.
laterz, stan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 15:08:32 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: take a guess.... Message-ID: <32cc23d04716334@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
> and i might add, one of them read that letter > and they felt it was real enough to be concerned for the guy's health. > this person was a trained professional.
I didn't plan on getting into this discussion, but I have to say something. All of you who are ripping on certain people for the "this isn't a real suicide note" type of comments are completely missing the point. NOBODY EVER SAID WE SHOULD IGNORE THINGS LIKE THIS!! For some reason that's the way a lot of you have interpreted these comments, but nobody ever said that. I think everyone knows that someone who does something like this has problems and needs help. They are just saying that if he had really wanted to do it, he would've just done it. If you were as familiar with the "experts" as you claim to be, you would know that there is definite validity in this argument. Things like quietly giving away possesions are signs of suicide. Openly declaring that you are going to commit suicide is usually a sign of one of a person who has problems, and wants help, not death - and NOBODY IS SAYING THAT WE SHOULD DENY PEOPLE THAT HELP!!
And to Erik - I've been through a similar situation. If you put your energies into trying to do the best you can for yourself and the loved ones in your life whom you can still help, things will turn out much better than anything suicide could have accomplished. Remember, no matter what you believe about death and a life in the hereafter, the one fact is that you'll leave behind many people who care. Peace be with all of you, and the one thing I think we can all agree on is a hope for a new year much better than last!
-Brian Hayden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "There must be a third and last dance, this one will last forever... The third is love, love is the dance of eternity." - Dream Theater ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 15:08:57 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: once again.... Message-ID: <32cc23e94716350@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
> it's the people who contemplate suicide that are suicidal. people who > are dead are dead.
This is asinine. When people talk about "suicidal," they're talking about people who actually are planning on doing it, for real. Suicidal is a precursor to dead, not the mere thought of suicide.
> there is a huge difference there.
There's a huge difference between being suicidal, and wanting help, not death.
> but there are always > warning signs, which is the saddest thing. if people can see the > warning signs, lives may be saved.
NO, NO, NO! It's this "there are always warning signs" argument that leads to so much guilt on the part of those left behind after a suicide. The fact is, while many times there are warning signs,and when we see them we should try to help, sometimes there aren't, and it's no use having people hating themselves over what they think they could have done. Even when there are "signs," they are often too subtle for anyone to see until the death - so they are not really warning signs, since in the context of life instead of death, you wouldn't realize anything different. It's this kind of psychology of guilt in society that leads many people to suicide in the first place.
> i am terribly sorry to hear about the tragedies in your > life, but you cannot assume to have the knowledge of whether or not > letters of that sort are real.
Oh, but you can? Hypocrite.
That's enough, I just had to get some of that off my chest. Sorry.
-Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "There must be a third and last dance, this one will last forever... The third is love, love is the dance of eternity." - Dream Theater ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2152 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:59:03 EST