YTSEJAM Digest 2193
Today's Topics:
1) RE: EVH/DLR - NDTC!!!
by jpenna@trc.tosco.com
2) It's gotta be said!
by Scott Cook <skooc@earthlink.net>
3) Re: VH Rumors, no DTC
by Drummnstan@aol.com
4) New DT Thread
by "A.R. Bell" <salyavin@ames.net>
5) Indebted musicians
by Big.Swifty@twav.com
6) Re:asdf
by ScottB680@aol.com
7) Dream Theater Cover Band
by Marcel Coenen <mcoenen@cobweb.nl>
8) Re: Midnight
by "Elv" <cyclone@securenet.net>
9) DT immaginary cover band.
by Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2191
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
11) Super Dream Theater !!
by Cliff_Totten@discovery.com
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2191
by Taco Belhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 15:04:03 EST
From: jpenna@trc.tosco.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: RE: EVH/DLR - NDTC!!!
Message-ID: <9700168534.AA853455956@trcinternet.brc.tosco.com>
good day, eh...
it's been a while, but this bugged me.
Neil wrote, in reply to Bafu:
<<<<<<<
Subject: EVH/DLR - NDTC!!!
Not true. Eddie received a call from Dave about what songs were going to=
be=20
on the greatest hits album. He asked Dave if he was interested in record=
ing a=20
couple songs, ONLY FOR THE GREATEST HITS. At no time did he tell Dave th=
at he=20
was back in the band. In fact, he and the other members had to constantl=
y=20
remind Dave that it was a temporary thing. I think "baby steps" is the q=
uote=20
they were using. The deal was two songs, and videos for those songs (whi=
ch=20
were never made because of the bad feelings re-aroused between the two). =
On a=20
humorous note, Eddie said that DLR pulled a muscle rehearsing for the tou=
r,=20
and Eddie was like "what tour?!?"=20
=20
When they received that standing ovation at the MTV awards, Dave pretty m=
uch=20
assumed he had the spot. The fact is, ironically, that his behavior at t=
he=20
awards is a large part of why they did not continue working with him. He=
was=20
being his campy self, and it just wasn't working anymore. He also made a=
=20
pretty nasty comment to Eddie in between interviews backstage, something =
to=20
the tune of: "Enough about your hip, motherfucker, this night is about ME=
!" =20
The other part is that his voice is shot. It took weeks for them to sque=
eze=20
the two vocal tracks out of him that you hear on the greatest hits album.=
Yet=20
still Eddie called Dave "a real trooper" in the studio.=20
=20
Incidentally, if Eddie and the boys were the publicity-seeking assholes t=
hat=20
many have tried to make them out to be, then they would have toured with =
Roth=20
and made the countless millions that were waved in front of their faces. =
=20
Instead, Eddie said it would have been an insult to his fans: VH is not =
a=20
nostalgia act (like Kiss), and Roth was not in good form. Before the=20
re-breakup, he stated that IF they ever toured with Roth again it would b=
e=20
AFTER putting out a new album.=20
=20
I'm sick of hearing uninformed people make blanket comments about this=20
situation. The situation was handled poorly by the band's management, an=
d=20
some of the recent mudslinging has been ugly, admittedly. I've waded thr=
ough=20
a lot of crap on the VH list for months to get the kind of inside informa=
tion=20
that I have about the topic, and I've heard every possible perspective on=
the=20
matter. There are still many matters for debate, and many assumptions th=
at=20
can only be made on the basis of opinion. However, why would Eddie lie a=
bout=20
this? What does he have to gain? I think his attitude of late has been=20
absolutely stellar: If people only want to hear the Roth stuff, then buy=
the=20
old records and listen to them. If they only want to hear the Sammy stuf=
f,=20
then buy those records. If they're willing to give Gary a shot, then giv=
e it=20
a listen and support the band if you like the MUSIC. The bottom line is =
that=20
Eddie's going to do what HE thinks is best for the band and himself as a=20
musician. As always, he's saying "just shut the fuck up and listen to th=
e=20
MUSIC." Say what you want about EVH, but there has scarcely been a music=
ian=20
who is more purely and wholeheartedly devoted to the art of creating musi=
c. I=20
think on this list that we can all agree that any other approach to makin=
g=20
music smacks of selling out. The sad thing is that there are many VH fan=
s who=20
think Eddie OWES them something, and that he should listen to their blubb=
ering=20
complaints about what to do with the band. I can't wait until they get o=
ut=20
and perform with Gary - they're going to kick ass like few bands can. Oh=
=20
yeah, and there's no way there would ever be a Van Halen without Mikey.=20
=20
dissolving into the shadows from whence he came,=20
-Neil.=
>>>
Seems that someone is putting a lot of stock into what Eddie VH, and only Eddie
VH, has to say on the whole lead singer matter. Everything you cite is from
that MTV interview with Eddie and Alex. No way could those two lie, yeah right.
We still haven't heard Dave's side. I'm sure we will when he's ready. Keep in
mind what Carol Miller, a DJ on WNEW-FM in New York said of the whole fiasco. It
was something simple but to the point: "Two lead singers can't both be wrong".
"that's no moon, that's a space station"
later
--JP
the mad immortal man...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:33:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Cook <skooc@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: It's gotta be said!
Message-ID: <199701162033.MAA04289@serbia.it.earthlink.net>
Irene wrote:
>I know these are put out there as jokes, but they can get pretty demeaning.
>To me, it is an insult if someone hints that women are only good for
>cooking, cleaning, etc.
Oh why don't you just go bake some cookies or something! And while your up,
can you get me a beer? (It's a joke Irene)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lars (don't call me Ulrich) wrote:
>And you sir (I remember your name from some of the threads in the past) are
>one of the closed minded pricks that have come on the list and ruined it.
Hmmmmmmm. We're calling each other names now eh? Well, somebody's gonna have
to be the adult here so I'll give it a shot......
>It was once a paradise, but now it's more of a wasteland filled with the
>same old drivel any other mailing list or newsgroup has.
WOW! I didn't realize I had that much power, I guess I should change my name
to GOD. If I'm going to be all powerful I might as well have the name to go
along with it.
>I contributed a lot more than what most people have been contributing
>lately (including yourself),
And I'm the one that's destroyed the list huh?
>There was once a time on the Jam when people could post their observations
>without being flamed, and agree to disagree. It was great to see the
>different points of view that were out there.
I wish I could take credit for that, but with the Women's list thingy you
can see I'm not doing all the flaming.
>This belongs in private mail probably,
You're right, it does. I would rather do it that way, but if you're gonna go
after me publicly then I feel I am allowed to reply.
>but for the record, I've had several people respond who agree with me, but it
>seems the only people who disagree with me posted their replies to the list.
I have this problem too and it can be frustrating. You feel you're justified
and people tell you privately they support you, but getting them to support
you publicly is a whole different animal (I hope I didn't offend any animals
on the list.)
>And I don't feel I made myself clear.
You've made yourself crystal clear. You don't like me and that's fine. I
have no problem with that and I'd rather have the truth then pretending to
be a friend then talk trash behind my back like a couple of others have
done. The only thing I disagree with is bringing it to the list, but Que
Sera Sera!
>I'm not criticising the people on this list as a whole, I'm making a simple
>observation that the content has deteriorated... most of the same great people
>I've met over the list the last few years are still here, but the list is dull
>as hell right now.
In all fairness, DT hasn't really done a whole lot to talk about. I could
tell a few jokes but if the 25 thingy list was so harshly flamed I think
I'll just pass.
>Besides, how long have you been on the list?
Off and on (more on than off) about 16 months (about a month before ACOS
came out). I was gone for about two months, but I've been back a couple
weeks now.
>I find it interesting that you decided to flame me for simply making an
observation.
Nothing personal Lars, I get really annoyed when people post about how
screwed up the jam is. I've unsubbed a couple times and you don't see me
posting a farewell message about the state of the jam when I do. I just
decide I don't like whatever's going on at the moment or whatever other
reason and I leave. Now I'm back; how long I'll be here I don't know. Could
beek a month could be a decade.
>I mean, this is what I've seen from my POV. It's not even an opinion, it's
a fact
(I find things more boring now than before). So if you don't like it, tough!
I could say the same thing, but someone's gotta take the high road.
>The only reason I posted it publicly was to let it be known that Ben wasn't the
>only one who feels the way he does...
So noted.
>And besides, you have a nerve to criticize me for not contributing. When I
>posted regularly on this list a while ago I contributed a lot more than the
>flames and drivel that come out of your keyboard.
What makes you so much better than me? I know I've done my share of flaming,
Chris Ptacek and Itchy can attest to that. But this time around I'm trying
to show a little more restraint and let someone else do the flaming for me.
Besides, Chris has been nice this time around by diagreeing with me without
attacking me personally. Except for what I said to you and Ben in your posts
I really cna't think of anyone I've flamed Personally (the above to Irene
wasn't a flame just a little joke).
Anyway, I'm babbling... I'll shut up now.
Me too.
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:33:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Drummnstan@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: VH Rumors, no DTC
Message-ID: <970116152139_1011922205@emout13.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 1/16/97 4:35:21 PM, you wrote:
<<
weren't getting along, I'll grant Eddie that one. But tossing Sammy was
ridiculous. The band has said for years they they were friends, something
they never had with Dave in the band. >>
EEEEEKKK, wonder how long it will be before EVH tires of Mr. Cherone and
boots him?
Laterz,
Stan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:02:33 -0600
From: "A.R. Bell" <salyavin@ames.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: New DT Thread
Message-ID: <199701162101.PAA09720@brain.ames.net>
Very interesting question...
Vagelis Maranis (Sanvoisen) or Ray Alder - vocals
Timo Tolkki (Stratovarius) or Malmsteen (no flames, please) - guitars
Jens Johansson - keyboards
Sean Malone (Cynic) - bass
Mark Zonder (It would be an interesting twist...) or Gene Hoglan (Death) -
drums
Anyway...It's good to be back on the 'Jam (MIA for about a year). A
question for all...Are there any similar postings for FW? Just curious.
Later...
Aaron
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jan 1997 16:30:14 CDT
From: Big.Swifty@twav.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Indebted musicians
Message-ID: <199701162120.NAA19642@pawn.ax.com>
YT>It's really a silly argument. Bands/musicians do not owe fans anything,
YT>PARTICULARLY if they have to sacrifice their integrity for it. Fans may end
YT>up disagreeing with a bands musical direction, but if that's the case, I
YT>say: find some other band that meshes better with what you want, or go make
YT>the music yourself.
In a perfect world this would be true. But the members of Van Halen own
the houses, guitars, cars, etc. because of tickets sales, album sales,
shirt sales, and the like. Who bought that stuff? THE FANS!!! I'm not
drawing conclusions, just pointing out something that struck me as
ironic.
Mark Peters
big.swifty@twav.com
PS - My Jags got knocked off last week, but the Pack is going to beat
the Patsies 31-10. Email me with your prediction if you have absolutely
nothing better to do with your time:)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:35:29 -0500 (EST)
From: ScottB680@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re:asdf
Message-ID: <970116162427_747332161@emout06.mail.aol.com>
Subscribe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:43:47 +0200
From: Marcel Coenen <mcoenen@cobweb.nl>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Dream Theater Cover Band
Message-ID: <199701162043.WAA01962@spider01.cobweb.nl>
Hmm, that is an interesting question about the favorite lineup for a
DT-cover band. I think I go for the following:
drums: Mike Terrana
guitar: Dimebag Darrell
Bassguitar: Billy Sheehan
Keyboards: Jens Johansson
Vocals: Charlie Domininci (Who ever thought of him, he !)
I think this would be a huge combination, especially dimebag's guitarwork,
very fat the riffs, I think only for the clean parts they will need an Allan
Holdsworth or so or maybe Meshuggah's lead player.
Greetings,
Marcel
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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| | ---- ----- - - /--- | ------- --- ---- ---- |
| | |-- | | | | | |--| | | | | | | |-- |
| ------- ---- - - - ---- | \ ----- ---- --- ---- ---- |
| |
| Marcel Coenen |
| Guitarist LEMUR VOICE |
| |
| E-Mail: mcoenen@cobweb.nl |
| |
| Lemur Voice Homepage URL: http://www.cobweb.nl/mcoenen |
| |
| Check out our new album "INSIGHTS" available at |
| Magna Carta (USA) and Roadrunner (Europe & Japan) |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:47:37 -0500
From: "Elv" <cyclone@securenet.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Midnight
Message-ID: <199701162150.NAA20135@pawn.ax.com>
> Does Anyone Know what ever happened to Midnight ?? Is he
> still alive?? Does he still sing?? ( I can't stand the
> thought of one of the best vocalists in the world, flipping
> burgers or washing cars.....etc....! ) C'mon..... SOMEONE
> out there must know something about him !!!!!
I've heard that Midnight quit singing. Although I loved Transcendence and
the 1st
album, there were lots of effects added to Midnight's voice, and when he
sang live
it wasn't quite as good. Here's the GOOD NEWS: Crimson Glory are in the
studio
with a new vocalist (+ original lineup). He supposed to be better than
Midnight! and
the music will be like "transcendence", not like "strange and shittyful".
Elvis Batur
cyclone@securenet.net
elv@geocities.com
Music In Progress
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/4257
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:18:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT immaginary cover band.
Message-ID: <199701162218.RAA02805@hammurabi.nh.ultra.net>
Voice: Sebastian Bach (yes his band sucks but he is the only one that I
know that can hit the highs like KJ)
Drums: Neil Peart (He's the only one I know that can jump in and out of
time signatures like Mike can)
Guitar: Joe Satriani, Nuno Bettencourt or Steve Vai (they all rule!!)
Bass: Les Claypool (just because he is the only player other than JM that
can handle a bass THAT big!)
Keys: That guy from the Doors.
I like the set-up but I know that this could never work. All these
guys would probably kill eachother. Later, J
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:54:23 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2191
Message-ID: <32DEA38F.665A@enteract.com>
> Well, while I know that list was intended as a joke and all, it did hurt to
> a degree. While some of the stuff was funny like "No you can't have the
> remote control" there were some that were a tad bit offensive.
You see? The ones that label men couch potatos are funny. Ones that
label women "shoppers" are not. Hypocriwhat?
> I know these are put out there as jokes, but they can get pretty demeaning.
> To me, it is an insult if someone hints that women are only good for
> cooking, cleaning, etc. That really is what some of that joke me feel like.
Then you need to build up some sort of immunity to simple remarks like
these jokes. You can't expect everyone to turn in their sense of humor
in favor of yours.
> Please don't say I'm bitching here... I've seen that posted on the jam that
> the women are bitching (I guess if a woman speaks up she's bitching. Go
> figure).
And you haven't been reading my posts. I frequently refer to what I'm
saying as "bitching". I refer to any whining complaints as bitching.
And I have a y chromosome. So I'm a sexist.
> I'm just saying how I felt about that post. Personally, I'm not
> holding a grudge against Vince, who posted the list... I really feel he did
> it for humor, and he did appologise (which I feel was very good of him even
> though he'd originally intended it only for a joke), but I'm more offended
> by the posts that went off on the women who posted about it. Here's the
> example that really pissed me off:
>
> >>Have a beer, smoke a stogie, just don't bitch about somethiing as simple
> >>and silly as a list like that.
That too was a joke about the "watching sports, drinking beer, etc..."
comment. Don't hold your breath on an apology from me for that one.
> Chris, first of all, like I said a woman speaking her mind is NOT bitching.
No, but as I said previously, I consider anyone who makes a non
constructive complaint to be bitching. Especially if it's something as
STUPID and MINDLESS as this argument. And I am guilty of it at times
too. Point it out if it pisses you off.
> And second of all, while some may have found that joke humorous (in general,
> I did) some did get offended and they have every right to speak up about it!
So bitch to Vince for posting it. I don't care if you want to complain
about a post like that. I enjoyed it. I guess if you support the right
to speak up about a post like that, then I'll support Vince's right to
post it. It was off topic... if you work that perspective I could be
convinced to concede. :)
> While it may be simple and silly to you, some got offended. Vince had the
> decency to appologise about it, and I wouldn't have posted this if it hadn't
> been for that comment of yours!
If you have a problem with me, I'm always willing to discuss it though
private e mail. If you want to fire condemnations at me through the
list, I am going to spit right back in your face.
> I'm also not going to post anything demeaning towards men... I feel there's
> no need, I believe in equality. Even that top 50 against men I feel was
> unnecessary and all and I honestly hope no guys were offended.
I don't think we were. I think we have a sense of humor about each
other.
> And that
> person has every right as a human being to defend him/herself. And not to
> be told they're bitching, whining, etc.
Well, I personally feel that some people just have an attitude problem,
and take themselves way too seriously. Since I am an avid arguer (if
such a term exists) I often exercise the same freedom of speech as you
and state my beliefs on one side of the story. Some people enjoy my
witless souless evil useless posts. Some people hate me. I could care
less. Every human being is my equal (except Jason Becker, who is far
beyond human in all aspects) and I will never act otherwise. If you
think I owe you some form of respect that I don't give you, perhaps it's
your tact that elicits my vigorous reaction. As I say, I am willing at
all times to calmly discuss a matter over private e mail. My response
is here because your post was.
---------
> Is the HTW only guitar, or does he have a supporting band? I may
> buy it anyhow, even if he doesn't have any other band members (I'm a
> drummer). When I sampled HTW, I thought it was quite slow and not
> representative of Steve Morse's true style, but I may be wrong......
Dude!!! When I went to the most recent Rod Morgenstein clinic in
Chicago he played mostly songs off High Tension Wires. The album is not
all guitar... there's a PHENOMENAL (IMO WAY better than LaSchmoo)
bassist named Jerry Peek that keeps up with Steve in places where I have
YET to see Larue in 3 live performances. Trust me... buy the album. If
you don't like it, let me know. I could use another copy. I'd go so
far as to say this is the BEST representation of Steve's overall styles.
Take care everyone.
Yes, you women too.
- Chris the sexist rude, punk male pig.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:04:30 -0400
From: Cliff_Totten@discovery.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Super Dream Theater !!
Message-ID: <85256421.007D9444.00@smtp1.discovery.com>
Cliff Totten
01/16/97 06:04 PM
Super Dream Theater:
JP: Lead Guitar
MP: Drums
Stuart Ham: Bass
MIDNIGHT: Lead Vocals ( where is he anyway? )
Tony Mcalpine: Keyboards
London Philharmonic Orchestra: String section
Karen Briggs: Lead violin
Hans Zimmer: Conductor
oh yeah, JL, Ray Alder, Geoff Tate, Rob Halford, Micheal Kiske:
Backing Chior
Wow, I would give my left testicle to see that show !!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:20:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Taco Belhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2191
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970116180949.29939B-100000@umbc8.umbc.edu>
On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Chris Ptacek wrote:
> Dude!!! When I went to the most recent Rod Morgenstein clinic in
> Chicago he played mostly songs off High Tension Wires. The album is not
> all guitar... there's a PHENOMENAL (IMO WAY better than LaSchmoo)
> bassist named Jerry Peek that keeps up with Steve in places where I have
> YET to see Larue in 3 live performances. Trust me... buy the album. If
> you don't like it, let me know. I could use another copy. I'd go so
> far as to say this is the BEST representation of Steve's overall styles.
"High tension wires" is the "images and words" of Steve Morse. Well to me
it is. This is my favorite Steve Morse album. My friend from school lent
it to me back in March and since then I have bought most of the other
Steve Morse CDs. He's one of my favorite guitarists. Although "high
tension wires" is kinda new-agey. It's really not too hard except for the
song "tumeni notes." Heavier Steve Morse can be found on:
Stressfest: the song by the same name kicks major gonads. Great album.
structural damage: a tad bit lighter than "stressfest." More in the vein
of HTW.
the introduction: pretty good album. I always think I'm listening to
country music when I hear the 2nd song off this album. But that's
Steve...a very diverse musician.
Dixie Dreg's "what if": a cool jammer got me this for Chanukah ("Merry
fucking Chanukah Elliott"). I like it, but not as much as the other Steve
Morse CDs. I'm still trying to get used to it.
That's all I have from Morse. But he is THE man. I've bought tumeni Steve
Morse CDs this past year. But I would recomment to start off with HTW.
It's a good starter.
Brandon
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2193
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