YTSEJAM Digest 2753
Today's Topics:
1) Sell out, and the In-Betweener
by caber1@concentric.net
2) Re: Geez it's hot today
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
3) woah!
by Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
4) King's X label signing
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
5) Re: ANGRA - MTV awards
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ant116.cce.usp.br>
6) Amorphis
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ant116.cce.usp.br>
7) DT stuff
by "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu>
8) Scott Rockenfeld
by Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
9) How much DT stuff?
by Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com>
10) Amps
by Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
11) More on Prog. Violins...
by "Jeremy P. Kube" <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
12) The DS attack! : )
by "Jeremy P. Kube" <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
13) Bring Kevin back?!?!
by Phillip <pkish@sprynet.com>
14) The Fan Spam on the Jam
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
15) Thought Industry
by Laussade@aol.com
16) Queensryche concert
by Mari <Madi@tsrcom.com>
17) Definitive Fates Warning Source
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:27:24 -0700
From: caber1@concentric.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Sell out, and the In-Betweener
Message-ID: <33CAEE1C.729B@concentric.net>
Hey everyone,
This is to anyone interested by the latest Qr thread here goes...I hear
some songs off of HITNF not too often. But I remember hearing songs off
of Empire alot. If Qr wanted to sell out wouldn't they just keep doing
Empire type albums? Just something to think about.
___
About the next DT album...Some people think that its either going to be
heavy or light and nothing in-between. But that's not true. I heard
Lines in the Sand at a JP clinic, and I must say if all the other songs
are crap, I would still buy the CD just for this song. I really want to
hear JLB w/Doug Pinnick(sp?). Someone is going to be wondering if its
heavy or light? Well, its something in-between!!! :) So everyone should
be happy.
___
Damnit, everyone stop talking about other bands! I can't keep up! :)
___
I tried to subscribe to the Savatage mailing list. But it came back
saying that it hopped too many time(21 out of a 20 max). Anyone else
have this problem? Or does anyone know what the heck is a "hop' please
email me. Thanks.
Hmm, that's about that...
John McCabe
caber1@concentric.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:32:25 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Geez it's hot today
Message-ID: <199707150132.SAA10750@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Lars Hellsten said:
>This reminds me of something that happened a couple of weeks ago. There's
>this guy I work with who listens to Steve Vai and Pink Floyd. Cool, I
>thought.
>
>So I said to him, "Hey"
>
>So he said to me, "Sup?"
>
>So I said to him, "You heard of Dream Theater?"
>
>So he said to me, "Yeah, but they suck, they're 80's glam man"
>
>So I said to him, "What makes you think that?"
>
>So he said to me, "Just look at their singer, he sings like a girl, looks
>like a girl, and people only like him for his butt"
>
>So I giggled wildly and then I kicked his ass.
>
>The moral of the story? DT rules, and if anyone says otherwise, you should
>kick their ass.
SUUUUREEEE, you probably walked away and mumbled under your breath, "man,
that guy's such a meeeaannieee" and sulked... and then avoided him the rest
of the day because you were scared of his manliness... tell us the truth
bub!!!
I'm surprised you didn't "flatten him like a pancake"...
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% *$%&%#$* Global Micro Solutions #$#$#@@# *$*$*$*# Reality Enhancement Software - Engineering Reality *$&#*#@$ #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:10:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: woah! Message-ID: <199707150210.WAA16945@umbc8.umbc.edu>
> Grungeryche? Funny, I thought Queensryche was from Seattle. Kinda hard to > be accused of imitating something that you yourself started.
STRONG disagreements, here. Being from Seattle does not a grunge band make. Is Heart grunge? Is Alice In Chains? Is Hendrix? My mom is from seattle. Is she grunge, too?
> Don't kid yourself, grunge never would have existed had the harder music > not existed first.
Enh. Maybe, but that doesn't mean Stone Gossard ever consciously listened to Queensryche. Yes, harder music influenced grunge, but that doesn't necessarily mean Queensryche.
> Don't tell me grunge is some kind of generation-skipping gene that > really would have developed after 50's swing, and it's just that rock'n > 'roll got in the way and subdued the birth of grunge for thirty years.
Isn't it? I thought it was a underground-influenced thing...a punk- influenced thing...a thing that wasn't affected by the bombast and excess of 80's rock <and, among thse bands: Queensryche>.
<That was sarcasm. I think the reason why many of us on the Ytsejam don't like grunge is because of the pretentions it has about whnce it came. Prog doesn't have these. Metal doesn't either. Grunge would like to think it was influenced by things that you never heard of because you were too busy going to frat parties and beating up "nerds." I hope, Bafu, that you were joking, too, in your paragraph about the grunge generation-skipping thing.>
> Compare Alice In Chain's first album to their latest, you'll hear a > difference. "Facelift" wasn't too far off from every other metal album I > purchased back then.
Yeah, and neither was "Dirt," for that matter, and wasn't that released after the BIG grunge onslaught?
> Yes I'm aware that HITNF sounds like every other alternative album out > there. My point is, accusing Queensryche of "turning grunge" is like > accusing Malmsteen of "buying into the whole neo-classical thing."
Yeah, but Yngwie was a pioneer of the whole "neoclassical" guitar movement. I still contend that Queensryche didn't PIONEER grunge. Yngwie's also still doing the same stuff that he started off doing. He just progressed and developed in HIS OWN way. I don't think Queensryche has done that. If you listen to Promised Land, it is obvious that it is the completion of a musical journey. One would be a fool to expect that what is to follow it will sound like what one has heard before. Instead of finding a sound that was at the same time new and distinctly their own, Queensryche chose to mimic.
Now, you may say that when they FIRST started out they didn't have a sound all their own <they were a Maiden clone>. However, then they were just kids. They were, what, 19? 20 years old? Now they have been around and know who they are. There is no excuse for this lack of originality at this point in their career.
> > A fan is NOT someone who supports a band no matter what they do... > > I'm not saying you have to be Geoff Tate's mother. What I'm saying is that
What about my mom? She's from Seattle! :)
> > you're getting too much into the technicality of it Bafuhead... :) > > It is what it is. I don't make truth, I just argue it.
Woah! How self-righteous are you? :)
> Don't call yourself > a "Queensryche fan" if there are huge chunks of their work that repel you > and make you wish they'd stop making music. From what you told me in real > life, Mosh, if QR's next album is like HITNF, you aren't going to purchase > it. Because you don't want to hear more of this shit, because you don't > like it,
Right. No problem.
> i.e. you'll stop being a fan.
Uh, no. You don't HAVE to be a fan of every single piece in a musician's/ composer's/etc. body of work in order to be a fan. Someone already mentioned Mozart. How about Holst? You know The Planets, but have you ever heard any of his operas? Ugh. Bottom line: he tried something. It didn't work <at least for me>. That doesn't mean I like "The Planets" any less. Just because Mosh <or anyone> doesn't like HitNF doesn't mean he likes The Warning or Promised Land any less.
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:16:02 -0700 From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: King's X label signing Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970715051602.00678bec@pop.pipeline.com>
News: Well, I just heard that King's X signed a three album deal with Metal Blade Records.
Opinion: This is good and bad. First the good. They will probably put out more records with complete artistic freedom. They will probably tour with other cool MB label-mates like Galactic Cowboys and Fates Warning, etc. Bad: little or no chance for commercial break-through. Poor availibility. Poor promotion.
That is all.
Detroit Red Wings - 1996-97 Stanley Cup Champions
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:22:35 -0300 (EST) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ant116.cce.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: ANGRA - MTV awards Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95q.970714232115.15615A-100000@ant116.cce.usp.br>
On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au wrote:
> Angra have already performed 'Make Believe' live on Brasilian TV, I have it > on tape, but I don't know which show it was from, I think it is one of > those 'tonight show' type things. > > Graham
Well, if you could say what "Tonight Show" is, then maybe I could tell you if it is or not. If "Tonight Show" is an interview show, then yes. :-) Maybe it is called "Jo^ Soares Onze e Meia"??
[]s being up late, Roger... :-)
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:51:40 -0300 (EST) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ant116.cce.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Amorphis Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95q.970714234957.15615B-100000@ant116.cce.usp.br>
On Mon, 14 Jul 1997, Phillip wrote:
> Cool EP of the Day: Amorphis "My Kantele"
Oh, I don't have "My Kantele", but I have "Elegy" that contains both versions of "My Kantele" and it is one of my best CD's... Really nice one... I wonder how "Tales from the Thousand Lakes" sound... I fear that I'll buy this CD and find crappy lyrics, crappy drums, crappy guitars etc...
See ya, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:56:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT stuff Message-ID: <199707150256.WAA11207@umbc9.umbc.edu>
I don't know the exact number but at a glance I have somewhere around 20-25 different DT CD's.
For duplicates, I've got 2 version of Marquee, 2 copies of Live in Tokyo video, WDADU on CD(the import version that was available about 4 years ago), WDADU full lenght promo cassette autographed by Kevin and John M and WDADU on VINYL!!!!!! I also have the 12" Lie single.
I guess the most expensive item was the import version of Awake with Eve single for around $25. I paid about $20 for the WDADU cassette. I've also got an Awake poster and Images and Words poster. (i'd be interested in getting any other posters if you have one/some to sell). My next purchase will probably be a Japanese tourbook.
Uh, actually the most expensive item would be the 2 CD Lost in the Sky boot for $50. I still remember the very day that I got that CD. Wow! :) (3-4 years ago)
-- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \ / / L. Jason Hartman "And I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend \ \ lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu And I'll never be open again / / And I'll have no more dreams to defend \ \ Univ. Of Maryland, And I'll never be open again " / / Baltimore County - Kevin Moore : Dream Theater \ \ / / "Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot." \ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:06:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu> To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Scott Rockenfeld Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970714230337.11595A-100000@umbc9.umbc.edu>
Jammers-
I've seen countless talk about how Neil Peart and Portnoy are great drummers. Rarely, do I hear the same comments on Scott Rockenfeld of Queensryche. I am not a drummer and can't tell the difference between an excellent drummer and an average one. What do you guys think of Rockenfeld. Does he rank up there wih Peart and Portnoy?
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:08:38 -0700 From: Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: How much DT stuff? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970714200833.0069c89c@pop3.concentric.net>
What was that Syrinx? Guess again, tough guy.
8 official DT discs 40 CD bootleg releases 33 non-Bahr CD bootleg releases 48 total DT releases 61 individual discs.
Thank you very much.
I believe there is only one other person who can top this. :)
Rick Audet Dolby Labs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 03:32:49 +0000 From: Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Amps Message-ID: <19970715033243.AAB22066@LOCALNAME>
With all this talk about tube and solid-state amps, one amp has been neglected. Technically it's a solid state amp, but it is the next best thing to a Mesa Boogie. It is the Line 6 2x12 combo. And it is less than half the price. I have tried this amp out and it sparkles. It can accurately emulate hundreds of different sounds from the 5150 to a Marshall to a Fender Bassman to a Mesa. It's no tube amp, but it is an awesome sounding combo amp for ~$700. Alright what do the gear gods, Chris P and others, think of the Line 6?
Isaac
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:34:49 -0400 From: "Jeremy P. Kube" <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: More on Prog. Violins... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970714233449.007bc8d0@nh.ultranet.com>
what other prog super bands have violins???? > >Super, eh? Hmm.... > >Dixie Dregs -> Southern Jazz/Rock Fusion >Jean-Luc Ponty -> Great synthesized violin effects >Gentle Giant -> And probably every other stringed instrument :)
Thanks to Gravity needs to be added to this list. Honestly.. If anyone is curious as to how fucking awesome this band is.. send me a private e mail.. and if you don't believe me... Ask Trevor Hoit. He'll agree I'm sure.. That's it.. Lata, J
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:47:59 -0400 From: "Jeremy P. Kube" <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The DS attack! : ) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970714234759.007bf7a0@nh.ultranet.com>
Hey all... I totally agree with Mark.. He wrote:
Um, dude, alot of us actually _like_ the heavier, faster attack of Mr. > Sherinian, and what he's currently bringing to the music. I think this is > gonna be the best DT album yet, and I can't wait. You can't just wish for > another I&W. That would eliminate the progress fror DT and they would > cease to be progressive IMHO. DT just wants to progress HEAVIER!! BUGA > YEAH!! :)
And a lot of us don't. There seems to be a significant number of Jammers who equate "heavy" with "good" (I recall a comment somebody made a few months back to the effect of "The new stuff keeps getting heavier and heavier...you're going to LOVE it"). I don't have a problem with people who like their music really heavy - to each his own, and all that. Just keep in mind that you're speaking to a fairly diverse audience here, and a lot of us don't necessarily share your views.
Before anybody flames me: I think Awake is a great album. I really do. But IMHO it's a big step down from I&W, which is the most amazing album I've ever heard. And I don't think I'm alone in wishing that DT would make another album or two in the same style. I think that it's an interesting enough style (and they're a talented enough band) to pull off a couple more without sounding stale. And I've always thought of "progressive" more as a style of music than a requirement that each album sound different than the one before it.
Of course, this discussion is somewhat pointless, because DT is going to progress in whatever direction they want to go, which is the way it should be. And I know I'm going to rush out to the CD store on the day that the new album finally comes out....
First of all, I must say that ACoS is more MP's work than anyone's in the band. So don't peg the "heavy" image on DS. It's not like DS wrote the music on AWAKE or anything.. That's just as heavy as ACoS with Derek. If you want to "peg" anyone with bringing the heavy image to the band, you should "peg" JP with that, he is the one that added the 7 string to AWAKE just so he could do the darker stuff. But wait, there is more: DS (in my opinion) is just as good as KM. It's just that DS jumped in when DT was heading in the heavier direction. You also have to look at it this way, DT needs to make some $$ on this album for a couple of reasons: 1. If they don't they stand a huge chance of being dropped from their label. It took them this long to get into the studio, now the label is looking for some $$ to be made. 2 The band can't continue playing clinics for money, I bet they make beans for an appearance. 3. After 4+ albums, it's time for the big time, they had 1 big hit "Pull me Under" which was the only "Marketable" song on I&W. Awake sold to only prog & DT fans, it didn't pick up anyone because there were no "hits". Sure, all of DT's work is the shit here, but it isn't on the billboard chart. Heavy sells. Strickly prog doesn't. We'll just have to see what the new album brings to the charts (we'll also have to see how much promotion DT gets from the label, that could make or break this disc) That's my .05 lata, J
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:21:27 +0000 From: Phillip <pkish@sprynet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Bring Kevin back?!?! Message-ID: <33CAB476.435F@sprynet.com>
A petition to bring Kevin back?
Um, Kevin CHOSE to leave. He wasn't kicked out. He wasn't pressured to leave. What good would a petition do?
Why do people refuse to even give Derek a chance? The funking album isn't even out yet and people have been screaming for his head ever since he joined the band. Give the guy and chance and remember that Mr. Moore left to do his own thing. LEt him do that and let Dream Theater move into THEIR future.
Dang, I just don't get some of you.
Later Phillip Cool CD of the day: Amorphis "My Kantele"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:33:11 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The Fan Spam on the Jam Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970715043311.0074a9e0@pop.enteract.com>
What is the deal with this again? :)
Bafu's a cool guy, but no, not even Bafu can tell YOU if you're a fan of a band. There is no single definition of "fan" with regards to music or entertainment figures that rules all else out as "False Fan". If you like an album from a band, and don't like the next album, you can still be a fan. What makes you a fan? That's up to you. I think that I'm a big QR fan, even though I don't like the new album much, because they still have an impact on me. I still like their old music; I still want to see what they'll do next; I still gladly take the opportunity to see them again.
You owe no loyalty, and you owe no love to the band's decision. If a band changes sound radically, like QR has, and you don't like it, that doesn't mean you're not open minded. That means you HAVE A MIND. If everyone had to approve of their favorite band's decisions and support their actions, then all Nirvana fans would be dead. Hmm... come to think about it... that's not such a bad idea......
If you think you're a QR fan, then you are. If you don't, then you aren't. That's YOUR decision, not an objective standard that Bafu, Mosh, QR, Me, or Giant Robot can hold you to.
And really quick, to those of you who want Kevin Moore back:
BAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
In the words of En Vogue: "No you're never gonna get it"
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG. They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground on which idea seeds fall." - Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:35:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Laussade@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Thought Industry Message-ID: <970715003455_-258307315@emout13.mail.aol.com>
as you get more recent, songs get shorter, heavier, and lyrically more bizarre. this is just a portion of what i could say about these guys. anymore comments would be awesome. ********
Great analysis, koba. But you left out my favorite song...Fruitcake and Cider. It is easily the most insane song I've ever heard. More insane than h0rsp0wered even, cuz that has some sort of structure. :) Another one is Bottomfeeder. The end of Bottomfeeder is just great great great music. Both of those are off of Outer Space. Another song off of m0ds carve the pig that I really really like is 'smirk the g0dblender'. Super chunky riffage, cool lyrics. And "jane whitfield is dead". Dave Matthews Band on crack into a 311 on crack and downers kind of thing. Great song. :) Also on m0ds is one of the coolest instrumentals i've ever heard. Called "t0 build a better bulld0zer". Thought Industry proving again that they've got what it takes in the skill department. Guys...go buy Thought Industry CDs. This band has buttloads of trouble selling stuff. You saw the guy's post about the 1 man concert. :) Don't let TI disappear off the face of the earth! They're too cool for that. Adios.
Jane Whitfield is Head
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:36:25 -0500 From: Mari <Madi@tsrcom.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Queensryche concert Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970714234302.34973a76@tsrcom.com>
Hey jammers, I went to the Queensryche concert on Sat. the 12th at the New World Theater in Chicago and it just KICKED ASS!!!! It was better than Ozzfest! Geoff Tate was brilliant and I have never had so much fun in my life without gettin' drunk. I tell you, if you ever get the chance to go to a Queensryche concert, GO! The opening band was pretty good as well, a local Chicago band called "Soma". Well, that's all for now.
-Maria
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:36:37 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Definitive Fates Warning Source Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970715043637.0075af64@pop.enteract.com>
Kizer? Madden? Who's the one posting about the Fates Warning tour dates? I need to find an accurate, definitive source for this information, since the rest of my summer is going to pretty much be dictated by this tour.
A). Where do you find out that they're playing two shows in IL (House of Blues, Chicago, and Mabels, Champaign)? B). How reliable is this info?
THANKS!!!
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG. They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground on which idea seeds fall." - Michael Hedges
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2753 **************************
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