YTSEJAM Digest 2795
Today's Topics:
1) Re: The world sucks, more or less
by Elliott Kim <ekim@gate.net>
2) TOOL
by Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
3) Re: Choking down sobs
by "Chairface" <Dale.R.Newberry@MO.NET>
4) Creativity, and for further reading...
by "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net>
5) [Fwd: (Fwd) angel]
by ERIK STEARNS <stearns@realtime.net>
6) The value of D
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@uvm-gen.emba.uvm.edu>
7) Re: The value of D
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
8) Re: The sad state of 'merican Music; Meshuggah
by "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
9) A Brief History of Radio and Why Prog Will Never Be Popular
by Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
10) Tool, drum tips, revolution
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
11) music n' stuff
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
12) Opeth, Portnoy interview
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
13) Re: A Brief History of Radio and Why Prog Will Never Be Popular
by "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:29:02 -0400
From: Elliott Kim <ekim@gate.net>
To: The Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: The world sucks, more or less
Message-ID: <199707252329.TAA13004@chickasaw.gate.net>
>We need a new Renaissance. We need a rebirth of art, a society that
>embraces talent, rather than mediocrity, on all levels of life.
>
>For now, I'm just going to curl up with my headphones and a good CD, and
>wait for the world to catch up to us.
>
Yeah, what's up with that? People just don't seem to give a shit anymore
about anything! You put forth an effort to do something well and to do
something right in this world, and the only thanks you get is a snide remark
like, "gee, you got a lot of spare time on your hands?"
-- Elliott Kim -- ekim@gate.net -- e-man@dreamt.org --
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:32:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: TOOL
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970725192507.740A-100000@umbc10.umbc.edu>
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Matt Lamoureux wrote:
> Question for 'Jammers: How many of you think Tool kicks serious @$$?
> 'Undertow' is one of 3 three tapes I own that I've run into the ground (the
> other two are I&W and Garth Brooks' GH --> /me dives for cover to escape
> the flames). Anyway, they're doing well with airplay and sales of 'Aenima'
> but I want to know how many of those sales are to 'Jammers. Are they
> talented musicians? With all the prog talk, I'm curious how 'Jammers would
> classify them (if it's possible). Here's something else to tempt the
> flame-happy: aren't they prog to some extent? (I know - another 'what is
> prog?' thread). I wouldn't put them in Heavy Metal or Mainstream Rock or
> Alternative - so what else is there?
Tool is an excellent band because they are not riding on a trend. They
have their own sound and yet manage to be somewhat popular all at once. As
for being prog, I'd say no. Well, you can call them prog in the sense that
their trying out new things on their albums. But as far as weird time
sigs, and all the other things that go into the definition of prog rock,
they are not. Although they sometimes have long songs. But that really
means shit. "Hey look I wrote a three chord song that lasts 14
minutes...we must be progressive." :) :) :)
Did anyone catch them on 120 minutes last sunday? They showed the premier
of the "aenema" video. A somewhat disturbing video, but then again all
their videos are disturbing.
Oh, and yes, Tool kicks serious ass. The best album I bought last year was
"aenima." So many classic songs on one album.
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:03:21 +0000
From: "Chairface" <Dale.R.Newberry@MO.NET>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Choking down sobs
Message-ID: <199707260011.TAA24975@Walden.MO.NET>
> > I was almost choking down sobs after this conversation.
Hehe, a good friend of mine told me just lsat night that someone
wanted him to copy Saviour Machine's first album because she thought
the guitarist was cute.
Well, okay, I laughed my ass off instead of choked sobs, but it's the
same sentiment :).
Dale R. Newberry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:06:05 -0500
From: "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Creativity, and for further reading...
Message-ID: <33D93F6D.2E7A@auburn.net>
I enjoyed all of the mini-essays that have appeared in the last few
'jams regarding the state of the artistic world today. If you get a
chance, read the cover story in the new Guitar Player magazine
(September 1997). It's called "Who Killed Rock Guitar?" but it hits on
much deeper issues than the fact that techno is huge everywhere.
Worthwhile reading for anyone who has a few minutes to kill in front of
the magazine rack at your favorite store. Then again, if you're dying to
learn how to play "The Joker" and can't figure it out yourself, you can
always buy the new Guitar World. I digress...
BTW, nice post, D!
Mark
-- *********************************************************************** * Mark Peters -- swifty@auburn.net -- Auburn University, Class of '99 * * Ytsejammer, tape trader at http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/index.html * * Progressive tape swap - http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/tapeswap.html * ***********************************************************************------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:22:50 -0500 From: ERIK STEARNS <stearns@realtime.net> To: artbell@aol.com, Dave Doebler <dave.doebler@eliashim.com>, Subject: [Fwd: (Fwd) angel] Message-ID: <33D9516A.77B2@realtime.net>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Here you go.
-- An Open mind is the thriving of a society while the closed mind is the downfall of the same. For in Saroks's words, "The spear in the others's heart is the spear in your own. You are he."
-- From the "Freedom" Speech to Larion's Congress
Erik Stearns StarBlazer Enterprises Inc. (512)719-1252 Fax: (512)719-1066 mailto:stearns@bga.com mailto:stearns@realtime.net http://www.starblazer.com
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Received: from barton.bga.com (apm1-80.realtime.net [205.238.146.80]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA08361; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:38:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199707250238.VAA08361@zoom.bga.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is <barton@bga.com> From: barton@bga.com To: RALPHLAYNE@aol.com, DanAustinTX@worldnet.att.net, "Marlene Lebel" <melbel@gte.net>, cenozoic@jump.net, stearns@bga.com Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:35:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) angel X-Confirm-Reading-To: barton@bga.com X-pmrqc: 1 Return-receipt-to: barton@bga.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a)
------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Are you gagging on the sweetness? I knew you'd appreciate this. This was sent to me just a moment ago. Please no jokes about hte angel. I fixed it. You should have seen it when I got it!
( \ __ / ) ( \(__)/ ) ( /<>\ ) TAKE THIS LITTLE ANGEL ( \/ \/ ) AND KEEP HER CLOSE TO YOU / \ SHE IS YOUR GUARDIAN ANGEL ( ) SENT TO WATCH OVER YOU
THIS IS A SPECIAL GUARDIAN ANGEL...YOU MUST PASS THIS ON TO 5 PEOPLE WITHIN THE HOUR OF RECEIVIN1G HER..AFTER U DO MAKE A WISH....IF U HAVE PASSED HER ON, YOUR WISH WILL B GRANTED AND SHE'LL WATCH OVER U FOREVER.. IF NOT..HER TEARS WILL FLOW AND NO WISHES WILL BE GRANTED..~
Barton
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@uvm-gen.emba.uvm.edu> To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: The value of D Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970725201034.3518I-100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
> From: "LisaMarie Peterson" <ytsegirl@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2793 > > >I'm feelin' ya, Beth. > > Heh heh. Well *that* ought to dispel any rumors, eh D-Man? ;oD
Whoa, heh heh. That was cool. :)
----
> From: Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net> > Subject: Met and Miss Deth > > computer. That's sad. 2 of the band members were late, no one > knew what was going on and the people setting things up were > having a ton of trouble. I'm almost glad I missed the event
Hey, Mosh, maybe we should go into business. :)
----
> From: "Frank Benenati" <frank@emeraldlink.com> > Subject: Re: The sad state of 'merican Music > > I can't ever bring myself to say that the musician's of the 80's were > bad...cause I truely appreciate how good we had it, till the Music Business > and A&R departments were overrun with kids that don't know their ass from > their elbow( musically, and maybe a little more than that too!).
How's that saying go? You don't really appreciate some things until they're gone?
----
> From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> > Subject: Oh Goodie... almost caught up with my yams. > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > I was wondering... what does 3D equal? What is the value of D?
You'll be happy to know that I closed on Wall Street today at an all-time high of 2112.
Am I the only one completely mystified by the financial part of the news, btw? "The market gained 47 points today, to surge past 8,000." What does that crap *mean*, anyway? And if it's doing so well, how come CD's ain't getting any cheaper?
Why is it a penny for your thoughts, but you put your two cents in? Someone's making a penny.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:59:12 -0500 (CDT) From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: The value of D Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970725205723.21133A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
> > > From: "Frank Benenati" <frank@emeraldlink.com> > > Subject: Re: The sad state of 'merican Music > > > > I can't ever bring myself to say that the musician's of the 80's were > > bad...cause I truely appreciate how good we had it, till the Music Business > > and A&R departments were overrun with kids that don't know their ass from > > their elbow( musically, and maybe a little more than that too!). > > How's that saying go? You don't really appreciate some things until > they're gone?
wasn't that a whitesnake song? it was a hair band anyway... maybe slaughter or cinderella... i bet bafu would know. he's probably a closet dokken fan...
knowing what he's got (and glad he let the rest go), id
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:11:59 -0600 From: "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: The sad state of 'merican Music; Meshuggah Message-ID: <199707260217.TAA12692@odin.ax.com>
> Like it or not, record companies have a good idea of what most people > will latch onto easily. Just as McDonald's knows their food ain't > great, but people will buy it--buy LOTS of it 'cause it's easy to > digest!
McDonald's? Easy to digest? HAHAHA... if you say so. :)
>AND, by request I might add, the following service is brought to you free >of charge by GOD!
Whoops! Silly me, I thought this guy killed himself on a houseboat in Miami the other day or something after going around killing people out of jealousy because his genetalia were so absurdly punitive they didn't work. Ah, well, the genetalia part's probably right anyway... :)
Anyway, with the mention of McDonald's it brought up a good point. If eating there makes people sick (well, it does me anyway) and their food in general tastes like shit, why do people go there?
It's all gimmicks. Everyone has their gimmicks. McDonald's gimmicks attract mainly to children, however, but these children's inccesant whining about having to go to Ronald's forces their parents to take them once a week. I imagine the guy who invented Ronald, Hamburglar, Birdie, Grimace (what the fuck IS he anyway?) and Mayor McCheese has his picture framed in gold at McDonald's Inc. Corporate Office building. Anyway, to my point...
The music scene. Why do people flock around to see certain bands? OK... the Wallflowers. Paul McCartney's son plays in it. It must be cool. Marilyn Manson. He's the self-proclaimed anti-christ and people wanna see him spit blood or something. Ozzy. He bit the head off a cow, etc. Alot of bands have silly little gimmicks that draw people. Hairstyles, actions, phrases, etc that have absolutely NOTHING to do with their musical ability, but people love that shit. They eat it up. It's become commonplace so that any band that does anything completely out of the ordinary gets alot of the attention. It's now cool to receive that attention, and people have to buy it because they have a reputation at school to maintain. So I was thinking of a gimmick for DT. Here goes.
I need four Ytse-volunteers to drive over here to Burley, Idaho. Plan to meet each other in a head-on collision at about 6:00 P.M. on Monday. When the ambulances pick you up to race you to the hospital, I'll be driving by with Dream Theater blasting out of the car. Now, the hard part. You guys have to come out of your comas in about 2 hours completely healed and unscarred. If you die, I'll kick your asses. When you snap out of the comas say that you saw the image of a long haired guy in a brown car singing a certain song (make sure it's the same one people!) and it healed your wounds. I'll step out and say that it was me who was doing the singing. I'll be revered as a miracle worker and I'll report owing it all to Dream Theater, the miracle workers. We 5 can sell the story to Enquirer and make a bundle while the band will get mega advertisement. It's a long shot. Mail me privately if you're interested. People will buy it up in seconds hoping it will cure their aches and pains. Then we'll get DT to include a sample of Alka-Seltzers in their next album. :)
Anyway. I'm bored and must find something to do... KorgX3 KorgX3@cyberhighway.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 03:50:45 +0000 From: Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A Brief History of Radio and Why Prog Will Never Be Popular Message-ID: <19970726035043.AAA6064@LOCALNAME>
I'll try to make this as brief as possible because I know you guys all have short attention spans and can't read a post longer than 12 lines and listen to music longer than 3 minutes, unless it's a Spice Girls song. :) Keep in mind the history is what my uncle, who works around musicians, says. I did not start listening to music until the 80's.
In the 1960's, it was not uncommon for a radio station to play many different styles of music. Frank Sinatra could be played after Jimi Hendrix. Radio station playlists were taken from what was requested in jukeboxes. The people were exposed to many different genres of music on one station, so they could decide what they liked.
Then business realized that vast sums of money could be made. Radio stations began to streamline their play lists to conform to a specific demographic group. If a business is going to advertise on a station, they want to maximize their buying audience. Coca Cola markets Surge on a station that can boast a large listening audience of young kids.
Record companies also want to maximize their profits, so they develop one hit wonder bands. It is cheaper for record companies to produce one hit bands then develop established bands because established bands require long term and more lucrative contracts. Record Companies then decide to reward radio stations that play their one hit wonder bands. Record Companies also reward stores for selling X amount of copies of a one hit wonder release. (Goto your record store and note which CD's, especially singles are cheaper.) Now most music listeners don't know what's out there because songs are shoved down their throats.
Prog will never be popular because our main demographic group is that we are musicians. Now what business would advertise to a bunch of poor, starving artists? It's not that prog can't be moderately popular. Rush, Yes, Pink Floyd and Queensryche are household names. Look what happened to DT with a little radio play.
Prog fans are ardent fans. That is a double edged sword. The support is good, but it means the record companies will have to shell out big bucks to keep these bands on their label. They don't want to show DT the money. :) (smiley inserted to hold your dwindling attention :) )
MP was right. Don't go into prog. Look at the main bands: Rush and Queensryche play to sold out arenas, but they are aging. After those two there's DT (arguably the heir to Rush's throne), who cannot get into the studio without a petition. Fates Warning is playing small clubs after 14 years. And Marillion needs donations from fans to tour. And those bands are the big name prog bands!
Then there is the question do we want prog to become famous? The answer is both yes and no. Yes because it would be nice to see some great artists earn the money and recognition they deserve. No because it will become watered down like metal was in the 80's and alternative in the 90's (no flames please). One hit wonder prog bands called the Spice Ryches would be on the radio. Prog music is a no win situation today. :(
Wow that was long. :)
Isaac
"Trumpy, do you know how to play?" "Yes, it's when I break you in half."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:48 -0400 From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack) To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Tool, drum tips, revolution Message-ID: <19970726030438.AAB14039@sni.pananet.com>
: Question for 'Jammers: How many of you think Tool kicks serious @$$?
Yes!
: but I want to know how many of those sales are to 'Jammers. Are they : talented musicians? With all the prog talk, I'm curious how 'Jammers would : classify them (if it's possible). Here's something else to tempt the : flame-happy: aren't they prog to some extent? (I know - another 'what is : prog?' thread). I wouldn't put them in Heavy Metal or Mainstream Rock or : Alternative - so what else is there?
Well, technically speaking, they're not that great (except for the drummer, he is SICK!), but they are all very creative and put a lot of their soul into their music. And I consider their music to be 'progressive', not in the sense of super-fast archipelagos and odd- time rhythms, but they're definitely pushing music forward with stuff like 'Third Eye' Oh GOD I love that song...
and the lyrics are just incredible. Anybody frustrated about today's society? Read Tool lyrics! you will feel better:)
: can consider yourself a fast double bass player :-).You might also want : to put earplugs under your headphones before playing.Unless you want : ringy ears... : -Vilzu-
here's a little trick... use those tiny earphones that go inside your ear, and cover it all with earmuffs. You hear everything clearly, and at decent volume levels. : I think we need to shift the focus of childhood. I mean, hell, I watch : commercials for toys on TV, and I get disgusted. Toys today play : themselves, and kids just watch. I grew up with GI Joes and a frisbee. : We had to make up our own games.
<with his best Dana Carvey impersonation>
When I was kid, we didn't have no Ninetendo. We'd stare at a TREE till our pupils were clinically dead, and would start seeing little blue spots flying around! : We need a new Renaissance. We need a rebirth of art, a society that : embraces talent, rather than mediocrity, on all levels of life. :
Yeah! REVOLUTION!!!!!!2112, BABY!!!!! Ernie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:08:47 -0400 From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack) To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: music n' stuff Message-ID: <19970726030438.AAA14039@sni.pananet.com>
> The problem with most people is that music, although important, > doesn't rule their lives. Most of us jammers will put on a CD sit
IMO, we're the ones with the problem. As much as I love hearing and playing music, I still can't deny that garbagemen are more important to society than musicians. Well, then again, I guess art and culture are more important in the long-run, but in the 'now', normal people have other things in their minds.
It seems to me it's always been like this. In Mozart's day, didn't only people of the high society listen to 'serious' music? The folk listened folk music. That's why Mozart made 'The Magic Flute' which is a humorous opera made for normal ppl. And I'm sure the rich people 'listened' to that music, only because they had to show they were interested in culture, since they were part of high society.
I said that all off the top of my head, so if I'm wrong in any way, one of you who know your musical history can correct me.
>Damn straight and, not to sound "holier than thou", it's just unfortunate >that a majority of people are morons in the US. Yes, this is a sweeping
The problem isn't only in the U.S. Yes, you're average american (i'm referring to the whole continent) follows trend more readily than in Europe, where people like to stick to the roots a little more.... but it's not like Dream Theater are selling out arenas in Germany or anything. And Japan... I don't really know, but it seems they're just a little behind with the times. They don't change trends so quickly. Makes sense , since it's a very conservative culture. But I guess the japanese jammers would know more about this than me :P
buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurning his soul, Ernie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:01:06 -0400 From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack) To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Opeth, Portnoy interview Message-ID: <19970726030438.AAC14039@sni.pananet.com>
> This is the third time I'll ask for information about Opeth on >this list. I got no responses from the other two. I'd really like if I >could get even an "I don't know this band".
Ok, first of all, the siniging is mostly death growling. But the guy does sing once in a while. And on the last song on 'Morningrise', he sings the whole thing. Guitars: very intersting. No show-offy shit, but they're constanly doing harmonies, counterpoint, and a lot of acoustic stuff. The sound are overall dark but beautiful. Lyrics are very poetic. And yes their songs are very long. On Morningrise, the shortest is about 9min. and the longet is 20min. (Only 5 songs on it= 66min). They don't have any choruses, it's more of a stream-of-thought. It just keeps changing and changing from heavy to soft.
Overall, if you can stand growling... you will love this stuff.
> Guitarist's bring a more personal point into this, for me, since I am a >guitarist. I cringe everytime I listen to the radio nowadays. Since Kurt >created Buck-Shot-Soup with the frontal lobe of his very small brain, we
What do Bill Clinton and Kurt Cobain have in common?
They both have gore behind their backs. :P
I finally remembered what the Portnoy interview rememberd me of... my high school graduation!
confused?
Well, before the actual ceremony (the interview) we were all in the gym (#ytsejam). This huge group of people just chatting away, with a couple of teachers shouting "please keep it down, when we tell you to, you will leave th gym row by row." ("The channel for the jam will be announced shortly. Please direct your questions to Askme") Then all of us went out to the front lawn for the ceremony (#portnoy). And then the huge exodus back to the gym to congratualte evrybody and saying how awesome it was.
living in a dream, Ernie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:53:27 -0600 From: "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: A Brief History of Radio and Why Prog Will Never Be Popular Message-ID: <199707260458.VAA13665@odin.ax.com>
>Prog music is a no win situation today. :(
My lord! Not only did you hit the nail on the head, you went on to build the whole fucking house! Not only that, but that post really. I wouldn't have to be that way if these goofy people would quit buying the shit. There is very little in the way of mainstream music that I like. If they could only find worthy singers it could boost the content 10-fold. Instead they go hire some kid from Taco Bell to go talk over someone else's recycled riff. This progs.
>IMO, we're the ones with the problem
More than likely yes, but we all need at least one thing to bitch about. It seems we've found our own common denominator. Too bad it's zero. (Divided by all and taken by none, now THAT's Falling Into Infinite). This really progs.
One hour from now, another prog band will be giving up... And the rate is accellerating... KorgX3 KorgX3@cyberhighway.net
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2795 **************************
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