YTSEJAM Digest 2644
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Satch vs. Rhodes
by Deidre Killam <Brachett@concentric.net>
2) Re: Genres
by Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
3) Brain teaser and Rhodes
by svjohnson@amoco.com
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2643
by Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
5) Re: Brain teaser
by Mike Stoner <mdstoner@pcocd2.intel.com>
6) Re: Putting the JAM back in Ytsejam...
by Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
7) Satch vs. Vai vs. Rhoads...
by Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2640
by Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
9) Megadeth
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
10) Mindbenders and string benders
by Phil Carter <carter@negia.net>
11) Randy Rhoads
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
12) Opinions
by Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
13) RE: New totally unrelated mind-teaser (NDTC)
by Alan Halverson <alanh@microsoft.com>
14) Re: unsubbing
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
15) Re: Addressing the issues
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
16) Re: Rhoads, Free speech
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 03:12:23 -0700
From: Deidre Killam <Brachett@concentric.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Satch vs. Rhodes
Message-ID: <33A66304.B07498D3@concentric.net>
> >>Blizzard and Diary are a 1-2 shot that will never be matched. All
> hail
> >>Randy.
> >
> >You're close, but the 1-2-3-4-5-6 shot of Surfing with the Alien,
> >Dreaming #11, Flying in a Blue Dream, The Extremist, Time Machine,
> and
> >Joe Satriani tops it. No disrespect to Randy's memory intended.
> >Unfortunately, Randy was never allowed the chance at such a streak...
>
> I couldn't agree more, however, Randy made more of an impact on
> guitarists,
> musicians, and fans in 2 short years, and 3 albums (including
> Tribute),
> than Satch has in six albums. Don't get me wrong, I like Satch, but
> he
> can't hold a candle to Randy. The man was a genius.
>
just a question here. I have heard both of them described as genius,
but Rhodes more often than Satriani. Has anyone stopped to think that
there is a pattern here? It seems to me that when a large amount of
people examine two musicians, one living, and one dead... The dead one
is usually the one labelled most often as "genius". Had Satriani died,
and Rhodes lived... Who knows.DK
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:57:02 +0200
From: Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Genres
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970617185702.0060ced8@thn.htu.se>
At 02:46 1997-06-17 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>To me this doesn't make any sense. Since Megadeth hasn't toured with DT
>>they aren't progressive? If you ask some prog fans they'll tell you the
>>same thing about DT; they're Metal, not progressive.
>>
> Sorry, let me rephrase this. Usually, the criteria for an opening act is
>that they're at least the same genre as the headliner. Like, you'll never
>see Slayer or Venom open for DT.
WELL, NO !=20
I saw Steve Lukather open for Earth Wind & Fire last night. And they are
not at all in the same genre, if any of you are to young to know.
But still, I think Megadeth are too less prog to be categorized in that
way. Even DT is, as said above, on the border of (just) Metal. If you check
out the GEPR (a prog enc.) ,they diss DT for being too Metal. well, they
don't know any better than we, but still.
__
Well it seems like life is just a game of faith
No mistake
Always try to give more than you take
Always try to make a little more
Out of nothing, if not less
Always better than your best
//// Psychotic Waltz Hangin' on a String -92
Cheers //henrik
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Henrik Gustafsson
H=F6gskolan Trollh=E4ttan/Uddevalla
+46 (0)520 - 47 50 49 /fax -99
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 12:02:35 -0500
From: svjohnson@amoco.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Brain teaser and Rhodes
Message-ID: <199706171702.AA15787@interlock.amoco.com>
--MimeMultipartBoundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="cc:Mail"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Okay, try this one on for size:
There is a room with three lamps in it. There are three switches
outside the room, each of which turns on one of the lamps. You cannot
see into the room at all from where the swithes are. You are only
allowed to enter the room once. Your job is to figure out which
switch
turns on which lamp. How do you do it?
Kick it! :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My guess is to turn all three lights on for 15 minutes.....turn one
light off and leave others on for 10 minutes....just before entering
the room trun another off.....One would be off and cool, one would be
off and hot and one would be on.....
What are the best Rhodes releases to buy? Are they all Ozzy releases?
I have a hard time imagining Page to have been the end all be all of
guitar five or six years after Hendrix dies. I know most of his fame
came post mortem, but I thought by 1975 his genius had been
solidifying.
Good to hear DT is in the studio--FINALLY!
Steve
p.s.--Gonna catch Ratt and LA Guns and the Vic in Chicago on July 16!!
--MimeMultipartBoundary--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:16:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2643
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970617121446.622B-100000@indy21.gclab.missouri.edu>
> From: Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
> Subject: Ozzy's band
> =09Pat Griffin said:
> >2) I'd swear I'd seen the guitarist (Joe? Jon? Holmes) performing with
> >someone else. Please somebody prove I'm not crazy here.
Uhhh... no, I didn't. I'm not sure who did, but it wasn't me... could
have been The Other Pat...
=20
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
| Pat Griffin Reality=B2 Design |
| c675311@showme.missouri.edu c675311@cclabs.missouri.edu |
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:16:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Stoner <mdstoner@pcocd2.intel.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Brain teaser
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.93.970617100548.67822B-100000@frc999>
>
> There is a room with three lamps in it. There are three switches
> outside the room, each of which turns on one of the lamps. You cannot
> see into the room at all from where the swithes are. You are only
> allowed to enter the room once. Your job is to figure out which switch
> turns on which lamp. How do you do it?
Turn the first switch on for a few minutes, then turn it off. Turn the
2nd switch on then walk into the room. The lit lamp is obviously
controlled by the 2nd switch. By touching the other two light bulbs you
can determine which one was turned on by the first switch because it will
still be warm.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:26:32 +0200
From: Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Putting the JAM back in Ytsejam...
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970617192632.00616e20@thn.htu.se>
At 08:12 1997-06-17 -0700, you wrote:
> I think DT can 'do' commercial tunes better than most. It's
>just another boundary to explore.=20
JUST because you CAN do a thing, doesn't mean you HAVE to!
Give me back the band that made Only A matter of Time ,and Metropolis I
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Henrik Gustafsson
H=F6gskolan Trollh=E4ttan/Uddevalla
+46 (0)520 - 47 50 49 /fax -99
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:25:29 -0400
From: Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Satch vs. Vai vs. Rhoads...
Message-ID: <199706171725.AA27103@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello,
KAI and I had this in private for a bit, but now that other Jammers
have popped in, I'll bring it back here. I'm not singling him out, but
Eric has the most intelligent arguments, so I quote him most often:
>That's my opinion, of course, but I think Satch won most of his >popularity on the piggyback of Steve Vai.
I really have to dispute this point. Not of this Earth came out the same
year as Eat 'Em and Smile, and are two very dissimilar albums. If you
want to argue that Vai's Flex-Able and Alcatrazz came before, I'd go on
to mention the Greg Kihn Band, The Squares, and Joe's original EP. No
one bought any of those albums originally, so you can't really say they
were influential for their time. With Roth, Steve was playing very
"band-oriented" music. Joe was developing (I would even say creating)
the lyrical instrumental guitar genre that Vai and Johnson came into
later.
Vai's success with Roth's band was quite notable. But when Surfing with
the Alien came out a year and a half later, EVERYONE sat up and took
notice. To Vai's credit, a similar reaction was achieved with the
release of Passion and Warfare, but that was four years later. Again, as
Swifty said, try to see the historical perspective. An instrumental
guitar album had never been as successful as Joe's Surfing album. Vai's
work on the Roth albums was really no step further from the Rhoads and
Halen camps of songwriting.
And by the way, I think John Petrucci completely re-vamped band
oriented guitar work, that's why he makes my top ten.
>Satch just hasn't done anything truly remarkable and unforgettable like
>a 'Diary of a Madman'.
I don't own this disc, so I can't speak for its quality. But anyone who
says Joe hasn't done anything memorable needs to rethink their argument.
No offense intended, but if the four words "Surfing with the Alien"
aren't in your repetoire, you may need more guitar lessons. :)
>I just don't think Satch has achieved 'legend' status.
If you're touting Vai as superior, then you may want to remember who he
opened for on the G3 tour, and who he took lessons from to begin with.
If you're talking influence, then you have to talk about the numbers of
people they influenced. On his last tour, Satch packed the Roseland in
NYC. On his last tour, Vai got a good sized crowd at the Birch Hill. Vai
obviously has influenced less people in the NYC metropolitan area than
Satch has.
Now that's just my response to what was said. In my opinion, the two
greatest guitarists ever were Joe Satriani and Stevie Ray Vaughan. But
their influences are who they would likely say are the greatest, and
their influences' influences, and so on. I think maybe we should leave
this as one overall concept: to each his own, and to all none.
Of course, I say that after I kill half a Jam with my babbling...:)
-- _____________________________________________________________ Andrew Forcier a.k.a. Buck Stodgers --List Manager-- The Peppermint Tribe, the Saigon Kick Mailing List For info, check out: http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~rfm5570/ for e-mail inquiries, mailto:andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com *************************************************************------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:27:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2640 Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970617132647.27170A-100000@umbc8.umbc.edu>
> What do I have to do to unsubscribe???
Hahaha. That's a good one.
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:31:57 -0400 (EDT) From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Megadeth Message-ID: <v01520d00afcc429b3526@[207.90.116.111]>
Got it!
Good stuff!
More melodic. After one listen, I like it a lot.
Dan
---+ +--- Dan Temmesfeld - mailto:dantemm@erinet.com "Home of the Galactic Cowboys Pages" http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm Summer 1997 Update site: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/1853/ ---+ +---
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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:44:03 -0400 From: Phil Carter <carter@negia.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mindbenders and string benders Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970617134403.006b41e0@pop.negia.net>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids...
Brian Wherry says:
>There is a room with three lamps in it. There are three switches >outside the room, each of which turns on one of the lamps. You cannot >see into the room at all from where the swithes are. You are only >allowed to enter the room once. Your job is to figure out which switch >turns on which lamp. How do you do it?
Er, get somebody else to look into the room for you? :)
Kai remarked:
>Sorry man, I just don't think Satch has achieved 'legend' status. That's >my opinion, of course, but I think Satch won most of his popularity on the >piggyback of Steve Vai.
Er, what? On the piggyback of Steve Vai? Vai was Joe's *student*, thankyouverymuch. And before somebody remarks on the pupil being greater than the teacher, let's look at when Satch was at the height of his popularity and when Vai was at the height of his popularity (IMHO).
Satch: 1987-1994. During this time he released a groundbreaking instrumental album in "Surfing With the Alien," pushing the horizons even further with 1989's "Flying in a Blue Dream", and saw his popularity rise even further with 1992's "The Extremist". By the time Joe released "Joe Satriani" in 1995, his popularity and mass appeal was declining, though he remains one of the most influential and popular guitarists around -- a "musician's musician," if you will.
In contrast, Vai was relatively obscure (again, IMHO) for years before reaching relative success. Playing with Zappa, releasing an album ("Flex-Able") which went nowhere, and doing soundtracks ("Crossroads") and other oddball stuff. His own rise to prominence and "guitar-god" status began with 1990's "Passion and Warfare". Around about the same time, he joined Whitesnake and got a great deal of exposure there; soon everybody started to recognize his talent. His popularity has been rising ever since, and I think Vai is still on an upswing, especially with the recent release of "Fire Garden".
Kai also said:
>Steve Vai, legend. Randy >Rhoads, without a doubt a legend. Satch, I wouldn't say so. Again, that's >all my opinion, but I think many others would agree. Satch just hasn't >done anything truly remarkable and unforgettable like a 'Diary of a Madman'.
Excuse me? "Surfing with the Alien" was not only the first instrumental album to get heavy recognition and airplay, but also helped to kickstart the guitar music movement and get guitarists the recognition they deserved as true musicians. And "Flying in a Blue Dream" is, quite simply, one of the best albums ever. High-flying, powerful, moving and envelope-pushing, that one is definitely "remarkable and unforgettable."
Cheers, Phil
========================================================= Phil Carter -- carter@negia.net http://www.negia.net/~carter "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach "Music brings peace to the restless, and comforts the sorrowful. They who no longer know where to turn find new ways. And those who have despaired, gain new confidence and love." -- Pablo Casals
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:49:56 -0400 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Randy Rhoads Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970617134956.00f117a0@pophost.fore.com>
>just a question here. I have heard both of them described as genius, >but Rhodes more often than Satriani. Has anyone stopped to think that >there is a pattern here? It seems to me that when a large amount of >people examine two musicians, one living, and one dead... The dead one >is usually the one labelled most often as "genius". Had Satriani died, >and Rhodes lived... Who knows.DK >
Had Satch died in 1982, he would have never been heard of, and if Randy were still alive - who knows. I don't think anyone can imagine what he would have come up with in 15 years.
>What are the best Rhodes releases to buy? Are they all Ozzy releases?
No. Randy RHOADS (notice the spelling) only played on Blizzard of Ozz, Diary of a Madman, and Tribute. Tribute is a live album released in ~1986, but the live recording was from 1981 (Cleveland) with Randy. If you need more info on any of these releases, contact me privately at kai@fore.com
KAI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:57:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Opinions Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970617121657.622C-100000@indy21.gclab.missouri.edu>
> From: WhiteWolf <prelude@autobahn.mb.ca> > Subject: What?
[About listening to various styles]
> That's right...after all, I listen to Savatage as well as Phil Collins, > Pat Metheny, Earl Klugh and Frank Gambale. Vastly different music styles > compared to DT.
Then why are you getting on people's cases about what they listen to?
[About Alanis]
> You seem to forget alot...I posted later that this was a joke and I never > intended it any other way.
Maybe if you had just said "What is a ytsejammer doing listening to Alanis, anyway?" and left it at that, it would have been a joke, but you went on in the post to tear down her music; that doesn't sound like a joke anymore...
> And btw...I never once said that a Ytsejammer > could not listen to her.
Maybe not in so many words, but the implication is still there. The way your post came across sounded like "You shouldn't listen to Alanis if you like DT, she's a talentless bitch and if you DO listen to her, then you are a moron." I have the jam with the post, want to see it?
I'm not pissed at you for not liking Alanis, or not liking rap, or thinking Metallica sold out, what bothers me is your my-opinion-is-better -than-yours attitude. You aren't the only one around here with that attitude, you're just the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. The only reason this correspondence is on the jam in addition to in private email is because there are a lot of people on here who seem to think that their's is the only opinion that matters. When people sit back and tell others that they suck because they listen to certain music, it irritates me, because everyone sees things differently.
The problem is too many people around here state opinions like they are facts. 9 times out of 10 you will see "Metallica sold out," or "Alanis sucks;" instead of "I think Metallica's newest CD was a poor effort on their part and produced just to appeal to a wider group and make more money instead of staying true to their music," or "I don't care for Alanis' musical style." The bottom line is Alanis does not suck. I don't like her music, but that doesn't mean she sucks, it just means that the music she produces doesn't do anything for me. Obviously some people think she *doesn't* suck because she's making money off of her CD.
There are 1300 people who get this mailing list. If you state an opinion, one of them is going to disagree with you; that's called a discussion. If you state an opinion like it is a fact, someone is going to get pissed off at you and then there is a big ugly thread like the one we have just started (sorry, everybody).
> Gee, Chris seemed really nice when I met him in irc.
Chris *is* a really nice guy.
> Everyone is entitled > to their opinions, and so are you. Never once did I say anything to the > contrary.
I hate to beat this Alanis thing to death but (joke or not) "What's a ytsejammer doing listening to Alanis?" sounds one hell of a lot like you're saying their opinion of what music *they* like is wrong...
> Perhaps, I'll just casually slide over to the other 2 mailing > lists after Lines In The Sand is released...on my own accord, of course. > Maybe there, my DT opinions might mean something.
*What* DT opinions? You have practically had a post in every jam for the last month, and I can count the number of DT opinions in them on one hand.
> And to think I was actually going to attend the next Ytsecon. Whew...thanx > for preventing me from making a colossal mistake.
You're welcome, I'm sure the rest of the YC IV attendees will thank me too. :) Seriously, you're welcome at Con IV, and you're welcome on the list, just stop trying to make your opinion the American standard. 90% of the flame wars on here would be prevented, or at least be on a smaller scale if people would just start saying "*I think* this sucks." instead of "This sucks." People take things much less personally that way.
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one, but nobody wants to have to see the other guys'.
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 / | Pat Griffin Reality2 Design | | c675311@showme.missouri.edu c675311@cclabs.missouri.edu | h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:43:40 -0700 From: Alan Halverson <alanh@microsoft.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: RE: New totally unrelated mind-teaser (NDTC) Message-ID: <D12397833284CF11B3A900805FD4E89102AF7A55@RED-106-MSG.dns.microsoft.com>
>There is a room with three lamps in it. There are three switches >outside the room, each of which turns on one of the lamps. You cannot >see into the room at all from where the swithes are. You are only >allowed to enter the room once. Your job is to figure out which switch >turns on which lamp. How do you do it?
Turn on one of the switches for 5-10 minutes. Turn that switch off and turn another one on. Enter the room. Now you know that:
a) The switch you just flipped obviously turns on the lamp that's on right now b) The first switch you flipped turns on the lamp that isn't on right now, but is warm/hot to the touch c) The switch you didn't flip at all goes with the other unlit lamp that is cool to the touch.
_Alan
I don't speak for Microsoft, they don't speak for me, yadada yadada yadada ...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:20:48 -0700 From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: unsubbing Message-ID: <19970617.114734.8622.0.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
On Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Ack! <stu3801@westga.edu> writes: > >What do I have to do to unsubscribe???
Click your heels three times and repeat "There's no place like home!" ;-)
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:47:07 -0700 From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Addressing the issues Message-ID: <19970617.114734.8622.3.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
>Indeed. Randy achieved in two short years what most guitarists >take a lifetime to accomplish...the status of "Guitar Legend". There will >never be another Randy...he was the best ever. Dead or alive, it doesn't
>matter. He'd have to be followed a very close second by Criss Oliva.
Does a guitarist have to be dead to be considered a great? I agree with Randy being one of the all-timers, but Criss Oliva? There's sooooo many others that could be placed ahead of him. Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, Al DiMeola, Carlos Santana to name a few.
Scott
Oh yeah, WW asked who Stuart is: He's the fat kid on the Beavis & Butthead cartoon that always wears the Winger T-Shirt.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:47:32 -0700 From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Rhoads, Free speech Message-ID: <19970617.114734.8622.4.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
D-man so perfectly wrote:
>>Twelve words for White Wolf: Shut the fuck UP already about whether >>Metallica sold out or not.
White Wolf retorted with: >Spoken with true eloquece and class, Chris...really. Correct >me if I'm wrong, because I could've sworn we lived in a democracy. >You know, that little freedom of speech thingy? It's obvious no one is >entitled to their own opinion around here, because there's always >someone ready to rip them a new orfice.
It doesn't have anything to do with that. I don't know if you were here when LOAD came out. But it brought on a thread that got pretty nasty. Those of us who liked were ripped to shreds by those who thought Metallica went alternative. Skadz came out of lurk mode and told everyone to knock it off, so we did (after a couple more days of course ;-) ).
So, there you see why it's such a touchy subject.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2644 **************************
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