YTSEJAM Digest 2346
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Finneus Trivia
by Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
2) mindsets?
by "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
3) Tunnel Records URL
by Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
4) RE:Luis Vargas'
by edwilk@juno.com (Edward J Wilk)
5) Megadeth, stuff (almost NDTC)
by vanzin@dks.com.br
6) Re: Finnious Gage
by Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu>
7) Megadeth....DT...(emotional songs)
by "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
8) emotional songs....(continued)
by "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
9) Re:MD rocks and so did KOME.
by Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu>
10) Re: Don't hate me
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
11) Re: Finneus Trivia
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
12) CD Cellar & Eric's CD Mine(?)
by Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
13) Re: DT touring with Megadeth
by eckie@asu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:26:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Finneus Trivia
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970314182857.220f598e@access.mountain.net>
At 10:02 AM 3/14/97 -0800, Robin Campbell wrote:
>I think his name was spelled Gage. He was a railroad worker who got a big
>spike in his head and then after they pulled it out he freaked out a lot.
>They told us about him in psychology to illustrate the point that having a
>large metal object puncture your brain can have an adverse affect on your
>personality.
Actually, what made Phinneas Gage's (which is another band name, BTW)
situation interesting is that he lived with this spike in his head for quite
a while (2 years?) with no ill effects, and only after it was removed did he
encounter some problems. I think there are some links about this guy on the
finneus guage web site, which you can access via my web site (URL below).
>Personally, I think he was just discgruntled 'cuz his insurance
>wouldn't cover it.
Probably right about that. Hope he had a good lawyer. :)
Jonathan Byrne, 1L; Currently 2884th place in 1997 F1 Pick 6 (of 6345)
West Virginia University College of Law
rael@access.mountain.net (WormWood or DrNick on IRC)
TAPE TRADES! http://access.mountain.net/~rael/home.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------
"They got it made for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues"
-Donald Fagan, "Deacon Blues", Steely Dan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:29:37 -0600
From: "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: mindsets?
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970314232937.0073d97c@mail.inlink.com>
>And if anyone of the poop-heads who took this to heart STILL carry
> an unreasonable grudge against myself or my comments after this date,
> we can arrainge a "pleasant" meeting where I may bash your SHIT-ENGORGED
> HEADS in....whatdoya think???
> Actually, I don't give a cheap fuck about any of this and ya fuckin'
> know what.....NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
hmm.. this bitching at the mainstream is really stupid... mainstream music
really really rocks, but the whole mainstream mindset of the fans is what
can get to me... and its not just a mainstream mindset, because i see it
right here. the stupid mindframe where we feel the need to call people
names when they mention a band we dont like or say that the band mentioned
sucks. seriously, with all the bullshit in this world is it really worth it
to tell someone some music that they like totally out of opinion sucks? i
could swear this was something like the nirvana list right now, seeing
people bashing other bands, so what if its "grunge" music, someone likes it,
i would much rather talk about pearl jam here than the pearl jam list
because i'm likely to find a lot more open minded listeners of the band and
good discussion.. not just get some emails from guys saying "YEAH PEARL JAM
ROCKS!" you can use this place as a resource for lots of things, or you can
go around yelling about shit and get hate mail then post a big "fuck you" to
everyone and not much is going to come out of it... no one should be
holding a grudge against this guy, but there should be no reason to even
think it if we'd all act like civil people.. i like to think dream theater
fans are a bit above having to bitch about how much they hate mainstream
music, and how much talent it lacks, and blah blah blah... when you insult
a band, you usually just end up with people A) flaming you back or B)
people who agree with you going "YEAH!" and saying the same stupid crap.
either way nothing comes of it. if you dont like a band, i've said it many
times, if its appropriate, tell us WHY you dont like them, with a bit of
civil being to it.. and if its not appropriate, such as right here, where
we're simply discussing a band, no one is asking for imput, just dont say
it. yes, these threads should not dominate the jam, but should be allowed a
flare.. i personally would rather read about eddie vedder than geoff tate,
but i'd rather read about it here than anywhere else, cuz the ytsejam has
tons of open minded people, theres different people who collectively like
literally every kind of music here, nothing should be spared from
discussion. just remember, folks, if you're going to post about a band not
dt, throw some useful information in.. not only will it improve the quality
of your post and help back people off from digging on you, but give you
reason to defend yourself if someone still does. like right now, someone
will probably yell at me.... oh well ;)
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 17:42:45 -0600
From: Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Cc: "'gzr@geocities.com'" <gzr@geocities.com>
Subject: Tunnel Records URL
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=GE%l=AMERIDATA/ADNC/0019220F@msb01ncadctmsge.ameridata.com>
Tunnel Records URL:
http://www.csmonline.com:80/tunnel/index.html
Never bought anything from them, so I don't know anything about them.
-Randall
PS. If anyone is wondering about my different email addresses, the company
I was/am working for was bought by THE General Electric (STEP UP!!).
However my old email address is still good. Actually I know of five
different permutations of the two basic forms that work!
email: Randall.Braun@gecits.ge.com
***************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:06:34 EST
From: edwilk@juno.com (Edward J Wilk)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: RE:Luis Vargas'
Message-ID: <19970314.190624.9246.0.EdWilk@juno.com>
>Well, I don't in any way want to support or condone the original poster.
It
>is pretty clear to me that he wanted to piss people off.
Seemed to me that way, also.
like this music and see redeeming qualities in it. I do not. I can
remember
digging a couple of songs by a band called Candlebox. They belong to the
Seattle
wave, right?
Yes, they do. I also liked a few of their songs; "Cover Me",
especially. However, my viewpoint on the whole bashing of an entire
ANYTHING is wrong and ignorant. And I say this because in everything,
including music, there are exceptions to the rule. As a rule, I can't
stand rap. But I don't say that rap SUCKS, because I've heard one or two
rap songs that I either respected for the good lyrics or because it was
just a cool tune. No matter what the instance, unless, of course, it's
scientific law, there will be exceptions. That's life.
>My point is that once you've given something a fair chance, you don't
have to
>be spineless and follow the herd. There are valid objective reasons for
bashing
>an entire category of music, and grunge happens to be at the top of my
list.
I'd like to hear your reasons. I've listed mine (or some of
mine) above for why it is ignorant to bash an entire category of
anything. And I don't understand what you meant by saying that once
you've given something a fair chance, you don't have to be spineless and
follow the herd. Could you please clarify what this was in reference to?
>Furthermore, anyone's opinion of grunge these days is likely to be an
>informed one.
No argument there. :)
>Thanks to MTV and the music industry in general, we've all be drowning
in the
>stuff. As much as I'd like to be ignorant with regard to grunge, I've
heard
>enough of it to be an expert.
That's for those who watch MTV. I tend to avoid it. I hardly
watch TV, and when I do, rest assured it isn't MTV.
>While music tends to be an emotionally charged subject, that doesn't
mean that
>people have to forego use of their critical facilities in assessing it.
Again, I don't see what you mean. If you mean that, because
you've heard it and think that it doesn't move you then it sucks, so you
can bash it, I do and will believe that that's wrong. If you can
understand what that last sentence means, I applaud you. :)
>Sorry about the tirade...but Ytse-Ed's response indirectly called a lot
of
>people ignorant and closed minded, and I believe there's a fair number
of us who >didn't deserve it.
Well, *I* don't know a lot of people that totally bash entire
groups of music. Oh well.
Later,
Ytse-Ed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 21:12:10 -0300
From: vanzin@dks.com.br
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Megadeth, stuff (almost NDTC)
Message-ID: <TCPSMTP.17.3.14.-11.12.10.2579404677.638810@dks.com.br>
Hi there!
YT>------------------------------
YT>From: Lars Hellsten <larsh@ionsys.com>
YT>Subject: Re: DT touring with Megadeth
YT>This would *NEVER* happen, for two reasons:
YT>1) Most Megadeth fans are too stupid to appreciate a band like DT.
YT>2) DT would blow Megadeth off the stage.
YT>------------------------------
Hmmm... Then, should I just throw out the window my Megadeth
albuns or should I trash all my DT ones? As you say, I do not seem to
be able to like these two bands at the same time...
NOT! C'mon, if you do not like them, alright. But that does not
give you any special right to offend Megadeth's fans.
But, imagine, how would be John Petrucci and Marty Friedman
doing a guitar-duel on stage? THAT WOULD RULE! This is more difficult,
but Portnoy and Menza playing together would rule too.
And that would be a good chance for DT to visit Brazil, as
Megadeth generally comes here on their tours... :)
YT>------------------------------
YT>From: luis vargas <vargas20@matrix.newpaltz.edu>
YT>Subject: Don't hate me
YT> Let me first begin by saying that i never expected the harshly
YT> overwhelming responses to my rather anodyne, innocuous little
YT> midterm-stress-influenced note to our beloved ytse-jam. Actually, I
YT> was quite pleased to read the youthfully enthousiastic (yet sophmoric)
<cut cut cut>
I was almost running to take a dictionary when I felt something
strange about this message... I don't really know what it is, but I do
not seem to believe this guy pretty much.
[]'s
Marcelo Vanzin
Sใo Paulo - Brasil
vanzin@dks.com.br vanzin@dreamt.org
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/
อออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออ
DarkStar Multimidia BBs Telnet: dks.com.br Fone +55 011 870-1888
Internet, Gameconection, Games, ShareWare Fone/Fax +55 011 870-3444
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:34:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Finnious Gage
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970314193258.23750C-100000@colrain.williams.edu>
was a man who was hit by a train and was given an effective frontal
labodomy (or however you spell it.) He began having very strange mood
swings and I think he ended up killing himself. Is this right? Be well.
Matt B
====================
"You are all weirdos. Hmph." (Sam the Eagle, The
Great Muppet Movie)
"Now all we need is a little enerjon, and a lot of luck." (Optimus Prime,
Transformers the Movie)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:39:52 -0500
From: "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Megadeth....DT...(emotional songs)
Message-ID: <3329EFD8.10AA@earthlink.net>
Lars wrote:
> This would *NEVER* happen, for two reasons:
>
> 1) Most Megadeth fans are too stupid to appreciate a band like DT.
> 2) DT would blow Megadeth off the stage.
>
> ** Lars Hellsten (lars@matrixsoft.on.ca) **
Thanks for bringing the jam to an all-time low Lars!! This is the most
ignorant amd self-righteous post I've ever seen. Anyone who knows
Megadeth's guitarist Marty Friedman knows that he can play circles
around Petrucci. Just listen to his solo albums or his band w/ Jason
Becker called CACOPHONY. I'm a big fan of DT but NOTHING has come close
to the complexity, speed, and grace of Marty's work.
Next time I suggest you:
1) Know what the hell you are talking about before you open your mouth.
2) Get rid of that condescending attitude because it just makes you
sound like an ignorant jack-ass.
On a lighter note...Heres some songs that send my emotions into orbit.
ANGRA: "Nothing to Say" CORONER: "Arc-Lite"
YANNI: "Acroyali/Standing in Motion" ELEGY: "Windows of the
World"
THOUGHT INDUSTRY: "The Chalice Vermillion" GAMMA RAY: "Rebellion
in Dreamland"
ANNIHILATOR: "Imperiled Eyes" ELDRITCH: "Incurably
Ill"
ATTACK: "Danger in the Air" CRIMSON GLORY: "Eternal
World"
STRATOVARIUS: "Distant Skies" DT: "Only a Matter of
Time"
BLIND GUARDIAN: "The Last Candle" FW: "Ivory Gate of
Dreams"
SKYLARK: "Skylark/Crystal Lake" IRON MAIDEN: "Phantom
of the Opera"
BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN: "The River" DEATH: "Crystal
Mountain"
CACOPHONY: "Speed metal Symphony" CYNIC: "Veil of Maya"
RACER X: "Scit Scat Wah" ICED EARTH: "Travel in
Stygian"
CONCEPTION: "Among the Gods" DAMN THE MACHINE: "The
Mission"
SIEGES EVEN: "The Roads to Iliad" HEAVENS GATE:
"Fredless"
SENTENCED: "My Skies are Darker than Thine" THE GATHERING: "In
Motion #2"
AL DIMEOLA: "Race w/ the Devil on a Spanish Highway"
HELSTAR: thw whole "Nosferatu" album!!! HELLOWEEN: "Halloween"
AMORPHIS: "Black WInter Day" KING DIAMOND: "Black
Horsemen"
SAVATAGE: "Gutter Ballet" LETHAL: "Arrival"
MERCURY RISING: "Minute Man" MANOWAR: "Battle Hymn"
MEMENTO MORI: "Black Blood" NEVERMORE: "In Memory"
SANCTUARY: "Battle Angels" RUNNING WILD: "Port
Royal"
OZRIC TENTACLES: "Bizarre Bazaar" SECRECY: "Last of the
Dynasty"
RUSH: "Middletown Dreams" SHADOW GALLERY:
"Questions at Hand"
MAGELLAN: "Storms and Mutiny" LEMUR VOICE: "Prime of
Passion"
MERCYFUL FATE: "The Oath" MADSWORD: "Evolution"
VICIOUS RUMORS: "Medusa" ZEITGEIST: "The Firing
Line"
CLOCKWORK: "Weaving Webs of Time" (all 22 minutes of it!)
....just to name a few :-)
I have to apologize for its length. I know its gonna piss people off.
I had no intention of making it this big, but the songs just kept on
coming. So much music, so little time.
cheers,
Carlo
P.S. Go see "Private Parts"...I laughed so hard, my colon shot out of
my ass (or is that the same thing??)
--
_
__| |__
"When you know that your time is close at hand |__ __|
maybe then you'll begin to understand | |
Life down here is just a strange illusion." | |
|_|
--IRON MAIDEN (Hallowed Be Thy Name)
"Neo-classical, progressive, melodic metal"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:47:41 -0500
From: "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: emotional songs....(continued)
Message-ID: <3329F1AD.64A4@earthlink.net>
Hi,
I just wanted to add to my already monstrous song list the instrumental
album which slays all others....Jason Becker's "Perpetual Burn". I MUST
be buried with this disc!
There are SO many great instrumental albums I have, I wish I could name
them all...maybe next post >:-)
cheers,
Carlo (aka "Fates" aka "YtseSatan")
--
_
__| |__
"When you know that your time is close at hand |__ __|
maybe then you'll begin to understand | |
Life down here is just a strange illusion." | |
|_|
--IRON MAIDEN (Hallowed Be Thy Name)
"Neo-classical, progressive, melodic metal"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:52:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re:MD rocks and so did KOME.
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970314195126.23750D-100000@colrain.williams.edu>
Remember Scott Louis? Remember Marla Davis when she was cool? You could
hear anything from the 60's to the 90's. Fuck 'em. Be well.
Matt B
====================
"You are all weirdos. Hmph." (Sam the Eagle, The
Great Muppet Movie)
"Now all we need is a little enerjon, and a lot of luck." (Optimus Prime,
Transformers the Movie)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:53:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
To: luis vargas <vargas20@matrix.newpaltz.edu>
Subject: Re: Don't hate me
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.970314194254.2890C-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
you know, for the subject matter, this is certainly an interesting
letter. let's read together, shall we?
> hey listen guys :
> Let me first begin by saying that i never expected the harshly
> overwhelming responses to my rather anodyne, innocuous little
> midterm-stress-influenced note to our beloved ytse-jam.
here's what i don't understand. you have midterms. we (well, i
can only speak for myself here...) have midterms. do i post to the jam
in some spazz attack? no. why? 'cause no one cares. this is the dream
theater internet mailing list, not the "day in the live of luis vargas"
list. you need a way to release some tension, boy.
let's read on.
> Actually, I
> was quite pleased }o read the youthfully enthousiastic (yet sophmoric)
> replies by some "jammers" who shall, out of my overly-tested courtesy,
> remain nameless ( though they probably are in real life).
you know, with comments like these, you'll have more enemies than
friend here (i know, the pot calling the kettle black, but hey, it's
gotta be said).
> Neverless, I
> realize that my molecular bio grad classes and thesis don't allow me the
> pleasure of writing very much or often, so I'd like to thoroughly apologize
> to those poor souls whom i may have offended.
this is what i thought the letter was going to be about (first
impressions, i know).
> And if anyone of the poop-heads who took this to heart STILL carry
> an unreasonable grudge against myself or my comments after this date,
> we can arrainge a "pleasant" meeting where I may bash your SHIT-ENGORGED
> HEADS in....whatdoya think???
well, well, well. this is certainly interesting, is it? it's a
good thing you don't live near me. i'd take you up on it, but hey, i'm
just an observer.
let me introduce you to a neat concept: it's called perspective.
each of us has their own. if people (not me, mind you. i just found this
letter interested and planned to comment on it) don't like you for a
reason, so the fuck what? you gonna go "arrainge a pleaset meeting" for
everyone. t'sk, t'sk.
> Actually, I don't give a cheap fuck about any of this and ya fuckin'
> know what.....NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
i think you need to seek psychatratic help. if you don't care
and "don't give a cheap fuck" maybe you shouldn't have posted it. as for
that "cheap fuck", i'm no one caers much about your post either.
now, for the fun comment.
>
> Love,
>
> Your majesty.
how this is here is just plain comical. you need to channel
those aggressions, boy. it'll hurt you in the long run. may i interest
you in the East West/Elektra punching bag? you hit it and it screams
"no more" and disapeers....kinda like dream theater's cd's in the shops.
send all hate mail to: d-man@dreamt.org :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"..666 is no longer alone.
he's getting out the marrow in your backbone,
and the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll
gonna blow right down inside your soul.
pythagoras with the looking-glass, reflect the full moon.
in blood, he's writing the lyrics to a brand new tune.."
* * * * * * * * * *
mike ostrich e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com
world wide web: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx
(c) 1997 Happy Fun Ball, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 19:55:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
To: Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
Subject: Re: Finneus Trivia
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.970314195351.3016B-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
> >I think his name was spelled Gage. He was a railroad worker who got a big
> >spike in his head and then after they pulled it out he freaked out a lot.
> >They told us about him in psychology to illustrate the point that having a
> >large metal object puncture your brain can have an adverse affect on your
> >personality.
>
> Actually, what made Phinneas Gage's (which is another band name, BTW)
> situation interesting is that he lived with this spike in his head for quite
> a while (2 years?) with no ill effects, and only after it was removed did he
> encounter some problems. I think there are some links about this guy on the
> finneus guage web site, which you can access via my web site (URL below).
according to chris buzby, he lived 11 years but had no short-term
memory whatsoever.
speaking of finneus gauge, i hope to see some of you at the show
tomorrow in Baltimore. I'm bringing D-Man, and hey, he's got the dew.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:57:36 -0600
From: Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: CD Cellar & Eric's CD Mine(?)
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=GE%l=AMERIDATA/ADNC/0019242B@msb01ncadctmsge.ameridata.com>
CD CELLAR:
http://www.dnaco.net/~cdcellar/
Eric's CD Mine(?) This site's in Dutch, but you can figure it out:
http://snt.student.utwente.nl/~dixo/
-Randall
email: Randall.Braun@gecits.ge.com
***************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 18:08:42 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: DT touring with Megadeth
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970314174628.24571A-100000@general5.asu.edu>
On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Lars Hellsten wrote:
> 1) Most Megadeth fans are too stupid to appreciate a band like DT.
>:|
Um...didn't Megadeth influence Dream Theater's music also? Mustaine's
been doin' the rock thing for some time, and his songs have had MUCH more
exposure over the last 100 years or so, in comparison to Dream Theater.
Shit, Pantera's even heavier and less coherent than Megadeth, and DT
started playing "By Demons be Driven" in the Images and Words/Live in
Tokyo vid!
I live in a university dormitory, where many different people with many
different interests live. We all have to have some degree of tolerance
to eachother to make it through the day. People are always blasting out
Bush and Green Day, but I'm not going around saying "You suck, get real
albums," or "I listen to DT, therefore I am, and your not!" Why not?
Because "my" music isn't more "right" than anybody elses, I just find
more interest in more complex things. When half of this dorm bought the
Cardigans CD, and all started bitching "But, the song on MTV is their
ONLY good song!" all I did was laugh, and popped in the Awake in Japan
bootleg I have. The only question I have is, are you that ignorant to
the number of Dream Theater fans who love Megadeth (almost) as much?
People are ass-holes only when you start calling them ass-holes.
And it's when you're calling them ass-holes that you become the ass-hole.
The rest of 'em are all just confused.
>:D
"Damn it! I'm surrounded by ass-holes!"
I know, we all could list the number of ways DT beats the shit out of any
band on this planet...but by the time you have a group of performers as
talented and honed on their skills as Megadeth, Metallica, Dream Theater,
or Queensryche, I just want to sit back and listen to it all, instead of
sitting on my ass figuring out who's better than who. They're all
unique, and that's why we love 'em.
> 2) DT would blow Megadeth off the stage.
>
I only wish people had as much interest and passion to art in this
country as they do to their music. It'd be a grand country.
If Megadeth ever got word of the type of shit said about their music from
comments like that, they'd NEVER want to play for DT fans, and I want to
hear/see/experience them with Dream Theater...I think I'd be fuckin'
blown away!
~MegaeckiE
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2346
**************************
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