YTSEJAM Digest 2362
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2345
by Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
2) Rush
by Cygnus <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
3) Re: Ryan, new DT
by Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
4) New Age recommendations and such
by Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net>
5) Re: Ryan, new DT
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
6) Euro FW
by "A.R. Bell" <salyavin@ames.net>
7) Dt in Bremen - no more???
by Henrik Gustafsson <Henrik.Gustafsson@thn.htu.se>
8) Take the Time question
by Pasztor Szilard <papua@thunder.sch.bme.hu>
9) new DT stuff
by Ryan Webb <ryanwebb@earthlink.net>
10) STOP!!!
by Pedro Miguel Jr <pmiguel@sercomtel.com.br>
11) new dt .ra files?
by Mathew and Melissa <palze@tcccom.net>
12) THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE OF MAILING LISTS
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
13) BAD TRADERS
by MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net>
14) Petition
by Ryan Webb <ryanwebb@earthlink.net>
15) in rebuttal of Graham's post...
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
16) Tolerance a.k.a. go get angry somewhere else (like the schoolyard)
by His Immortal Logness <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:55:06 -0800
From: Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2345
Message-ID: <199703181554.AA14330@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello,
I'm still catching up on a weeks worth of jams, but this needed
an immediate response. Lars said:
>>1) Most Megadeth fans are too stupid to appreciate a band like DT.
>>2) DT would blow Megadeth off the stage.
Um... That would be 1)no and 2)no. Clark Abel crystallized my sentiments:
>>Thank you very much. Fuck you too.
Happy jamming!
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:16:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Cygnus <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Rush
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970318100842.11419B-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
Just heard some Rush I had never heard before on my friend's Chronicles
(I only have about 10 Rush albums so far). I was impressed with Distant
Early Warning as well as the others. I find it strange though. My
friend does not like any of the bands I listen to that have a singer who
ventures into the high range, except Rush. In fact, he likes Rush for
the primary reason of: he likes Geddy Lee's voice. Don't get me wrong -
I like it to, it just seems strange to me. One time I did trick him by
playing Xanadu. Then when he wasn't paying attention, I played Status
Seeker and the Ytse Jam next. In the middle of the Ytse Jam he said,
"Wow! This is the cool part of Xanadu." I just smiled. If I told him
the truth he would have retracted his previoius statement.
***Rob***
rctaylor@uiuc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:23:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Ryan, new DT
Message-ID: <199703181622.IAA29500@odin.ax.com>
>
> Thanks Ryan for putting the 9 new DT songs so I could at last hear
> something new, I really enjoyed them.
>
> Thanks for your 'words of wisdom' Chris, surely you could have used private
> e-mail to get your point across
> instead of your childish public name calling problem
> Do you have a tape of the shows ? You might want to point your accusing
> big finger at the ppl who taped the show.
> Ryan was only trying to give ppl like me who didn't attend the shows or
> haven't got a boot something new to tie us over until the album is out.
>
> Graham
>
That's not the point that Chris was trying to make. The point
is that the band SPECIFICALLY asked for stuff not to be taped.
Asking for the stuff not to be taped means that they don't want
it distributed in any way, shape or form to ANYONE.
The finger not only should be pointed at the people who taped
it and distribute it, but also to the people who copy it,
because the temptation for THEM to distribute it to their
friend, who gives it to their friend, etc....is just the kind
of thing that DT doesn't want.
Chris may have put it in a way that may have seemed harsh to
you people, but he's absolutely right.
It's been said on here TONS of times that the stuff should
not be spread out, and it brings the integrity of the 'Jam
down.....
Instead of people looking for stuff to flame people about,
maybe they should realize why they're here in the first
place - to show DT SUPPORT.
-Al
-- @#%^$#%^#$&#%%$&#$%^#$%^#$%&#$%^&#$%^&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%^&%$ | | | See me gone and persevere.... | | Condescending when you label me Judas.... | | | #$%^#%&#%^$*%&*^&*%&(%^&(%^&*(%^&*(*%^&*$^&*#^%&#^*$%^&*#%^&*#$%& | Al Balkiewicz SEND MAIL HERE -->balkiewi @ njmsa.umdnj.edu | | OR HERE! --->DA_PROF @ BIGFOOT.COM | %@#$^@#$^@^%%$&#$&^*$%&*$&*$%^$&$%^&$%^*$^%&*$%^&*$%^*$%^&%$^&%$%------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:43:10 -0500 From: Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: New Age recommendations and such Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970318164310.0067fe20@nfx.net>
I only just started actively listening to stuff that can loosely be categorized as New Age a couple of years ago, but I've discovered some that I think are fantastic. Besides the prerequisite Clannad and Enya (and pardon me if I repeat anything; the list PMS of late has kept me from bothering to read the digests all the way through), there is...
Loreena McKennitt: She does all sorts of stuff, from Celtic traditional to her own material in that vein to putting poetry to music, such as Tennyson's "Lady of Shalott," which is just *phenomenal*. My mother, who normally teases me on a regular basis about the music I listen to, heard me listening to _The Visit_ the Christmas before last, borrowed the CD, and I didn't see it again until I stole it back six months later. That and _Mask and Mirror_ are probably her best, though she has a few others, plus a couple of Christmas EPs.
Nicholas Gunn: southwestern flutist/instrumentalist. I picked up _The Sacred Fire_ out of pure curiosity last fall and it knocked me on my ass. Very evocative material -- not the kind that puts you to sleep by any sort. SF is very upbeat, and the other one I have, _Crossroads_ is a lot more romantic type. He's got a couple other CDs out that I haven't heard yet. He plays almost every instrument on his CDs, too.
Those are just my favorites...
Jaime the Dragon -- jkimpton@nfx.net
"This has been a broadcast of the Emergency Savior System. If it had been a real emergency, your chosen deity would have contacted you immediately. This is only a test. --
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:49:02 -0500 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Ryan, new DT Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970318114902.00957100@pophost.fore.com>
This is bullshit. If DT didn't want the songs heard, they shouldn't have played them. They know how obsessive/compulsive their fans are, especially ytsejammers. How many of you had a copy of Awake before it was released. I sure as hell did. There's nothing wrong with the fans having the material earlier than the actual release. We should all have these shows, just so we'll have something interesting to talk about on the jam, cuz it's been pretty boring lately. Plus, we all know that having a bootleg of the material will absolutely not hinder any of us from buying the new album when it comes out. Every single show that DT ever plays, should be taped - and I think the band should lighten up about it, and start recognizing their fans' needs. Anyone, with any of the FIX 96 shows, I want them all, and will trade well for them. Email me for my list.
KAI
> > That's not the point that Chris was trying to make. The point > is that the band SPECIFICALLY asked for stuff not to be taped. > Asking for the stuff not to be taped means that they don't want > it distributed in any way, shape or form to ANYONE. > The finger not only should be pointed at the people who taped > it and distribute it, but also to the people who copy it, > because the temptation for THEM to distribute it to their > friend, who gives it to their friend, etc....is just the kind > of thing that DT doesn't want.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:49:17 -0600 From: "A.R. Bell" <salyavin@ames.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Euro FW Message-ID: <199703181646.KAA05081@brain.ames.net>
>Concerning the supposed Fates Warning/Conception co-headlining tour >with Elegy warming up I have no info, but a few other points in the >last jam puzzled me...
This info I got from the Scream webzine at www.gi.no/scream/news/News.html. It's been very reliable in the past. They could be wrong, though.
>I find it very peculiar that there's been any info about a Stratovarius/ >Superior tour, because to the best of my knowledge neither Timo Tolkki, >Timo Kotipelto or Bernd Basmer are aware of this. So I wouldn't take it >too seriously. BUT! Timo Kotipelto mentioned to me that PROBABLY >Stratovarius will ne touring with Conception in the very near future.
Not a Strat/Sup tour to come. Someone on a past 'jam, probably a month ago, mentioned they saw them together in Germany for one show, I believe. However, in perusing the newsletters on the Superior page, there isn't ANY mention of Strat, so I doubt this ever happened, as well.
But the point remains...Europeans are incredibly lucky.
Later... Aaron salyavin@ames.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:04:46 +0000 From: Henrik Gustafsson <Henrik.Gustafsson@thn.htu.se> To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: aarre.n@swipnet.se, info@mitril.se Subject: Dt in Bremen - no more??? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970318170443.005ba980@thn.htu.se>
Hi all Is it confirmed quite yet that there will be no DT-gig in Bremen. It's not on the -Tour Dates-page any more! I guess this ends my dream.
Can you please tell me, that this news is untrue !?!
-.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.--.- Henrik Gustafsson Box 957 461 29 Trollha:ttan Quality deployer +46(0)520-47 50 49 [fax +46(0)520-47 50 99]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:13:41 +0100 (MET) From: Pasztor Szilard <papua@thunder.sch.bme.hu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Take the Time question Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970318181245.12370A-100000@thunder.sch.bme.hu>
Hi!
I'm wondering if any of you had tried to analyse Take the Time. I have the official guitar score and I'm working on the transcripions, but I find the notes terrible. I don't know if it is my fault and ignorance or not, but I can't make the book out. The song begins with 120 bpm. That's ok. Then the score says 151 bpm for the faster part, when the double bass enters. The guitar matches exactly with the drums, and the booklet reads mainly 8th notes. Mike pumps the double-bass definitely in triplets and its speed is the same as the speed of the 16th notes in the intro. I measure this part to be at 160 bpm, so this should be right. Now, the guitar part is also played mainly in triplets, just think of the part where Mike hits a salvo on the snare, with the guitar rasping with alternate picking (sorry if this is a bad expression but I don't know any better). So, I find the 151 bpm incorrect, the 8th notes even worse than incorrect, and the 12/8 is the worst. The intro and all the choruses should be in 4/4 time. The 12/8 marking in the score matches the wrong note measures, the number of the notes between two measure bars is the same as if it were reported to be in 4/4 and triplets. Any ideas?
---------------------------------------------------------------- | I apologize for being alive, it won't happen again. | ----------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 09:15:56 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Webb <ryanwebb@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: new DT stuff Message-ID: <199703181715.JAA16218@iberia.it.earthlink.net>
Hmmmmm...ok. I am going to remove my page with the new DT .ra's on it as soon as I'm done typing this message for 3 reasons:
1. I am/was friends with Madsman, and don't want to get started in a huge flame war over this, it's just not worth it. I know that many people like them, but oh well.
2. I over-exceeded my web space storage limit with those files, so I'd only be able to keep it up for another week or so anyways. I knew this was gonna happen, just a matter of how soon.
3. I don't want to 'screw over' the band, or get them really pissed off at me for this. It was no big deal, I only posted clips of the songs, and even then, from shitty recordings.
I'm sorry if I offended people, ticked them off, or whatever... My only intention was to let those that were interested hear some brief sound clips of the new material, to wet their appetites, nothing else. I wasn't selling anything here, I'm not making bootleg CD's of this (which I think is much worse then what I did, but the people on here talking about getting the CD's made don't get flamed whatsoever.)
Now, let's put this thing to rest, I don't want to hear anything else about it. I don't want this to turn into another flame war like we've been having lately. So, please do not respond to the jam about this. I will make no further comments on the jam concerning those .ra files.
Ryan
p.s. lighten up people
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:21:08 -0300 From: Pedro Miguel Jr <pmiguel@sercomtel.com.br> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: STOP!!! Message-ID: <332D7D84.5D0F@sercomtel.com.br>
I don't want this trash anymore. Stop!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:57:38 -0600 (CST) From: Mathew and Melissa <palze@tcccom.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: new dt .ra files? Message-ID: <199703181757.LAA22636@bsd-03.tcccom.net>
hi all, i must have missed it, but where are they??
thanks, mathew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:55:23 +0100 From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> To: "'The YtseSpam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE OF MAILING LISTS Message-ID: <01BC33CF.0532E680@Kira.startrek.GlobalXS.nl>
THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE OF MAILING LISTS
Every list seems to go through the same cycle:
1. Initial enthusiasm (people introduce themselves, and gush alot about how wonderful it is to find kindred souls).
2. Evangelism (people moan about how few folks are posting to the list, and brainstorm recruitment strategies).
3. Growth (more and more people join, more and more lengthy threads develop, occasional off topic threads pop up).
4. Community (lots of threads, some more relevant than others; lots of information and advice is exchanged; experts help other experts as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with generosity and patience; everyone -- newbie and expert alike -- feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and sharing opinions).
5. Discomfort with diversity (the number of messages increases dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader; people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person 1 threatens to quit if *other* people don't limit discussion to person 1's pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3 tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more bandwidth is wasted complaining about off topic threads than is used for the threads themselves; everyone gets annoyed).
6a. Smug complacency and stagnation (the purists flame everyone who asks an 'old' question or responds with humor to a serious post; newbies are rebuffed; traffic drops to a doze-producing level of a few minor issues; all interesting discussions happen by private email and are limited to a few participants; the purists spend lots of time self-righteously congratulating each other on keeping off-topic threads off the list).
OR
6b. Maturity (a few people quit in a huff; the rest of the participants stay near stage 4, with stage 5 popping up briefly every few weeks; many people wear out their second or third 'delete' key, but the list lives contentedly ever after). ____
Just a little something that was posted to the *cool* mailinglist on the ax.com server, a few weeks ago. Thought it was interesting enough to be posted here. Ben, welcome back and thanks for making the Ytsejam a bit more exciting :-) Personally, I don't think "boring" is the right word for this list. It's just uninteresting for Dream Theater fans, because no one even *mentions* them here. The lack of new material is no excuse for flamewars and off-topic posts. We should be going for quality, not quantity. If you don't have anything interesting to say, don't say it.
Just some things to consider :
1. The words "suck" and "rule" do not constitute a review. 2. There is no "better" or "best". Just favourites. If you say one band/guitarist/whatever is better than another, you're not stating a fact but giving an opinion. 3. Your opinion becomes irrelevant if you can't back it up with a valid reason. 4. "Because I fucking say so" is *not* a valid reason. 5. When trashing another band or one of their albums, keep in mind that other people on this list might actually love that band or album. So, think before you unneccessarily piss someone off. 6. Before posting, ask yourself if anyone's interested in reading what you have to say. Don't post for the sake of posting. 7. If you want to verbally assault someone, please do so privately. Don't post it to a mailinglist with 1000+ subscribers. You will get no glory or satisfaction from calling someone names in public. I know, 'cuz I've done it myself. If you *do* feel good about it, you're a fucking moron ;-) 8. If you're posting under the name "MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY", please do *not* respond to this message.
Mark, a 26-year old guy from Rotterdam who can't shut the fuck up.
_________________________________Pager: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/301180__ All of us get lost in the darkness _ _____ ___ _ _ _ _ Dreamers learn to steer by the stars [=][_===_]/==_][=\_/=][=]_[=] All of us do time in the gutter RUSH | | [ ] ( (_ | _ | \ / Dreamers turn to look at the cars THE PASS [_/ [_/ \___][_/ \_] [__/ ____________________________________________________bredius@globalxs.nl__ http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/ http://www.globalxs.nl/home/b/bredius/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:22:19 -0800 (PST) From: MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: BAD TRADERS Message-ID: <199703181822.KAA28266@andorra.it.earthlink.net>
I've thought a lot about doing this because I don't like accusing people of this but I think it's only fair to other jammers that they know.
1. Neil Gallop - I sent him a audio tape OVER A YEAR ago for a dub of Vanden Plas (sp?) and I've yet to receive it.
2. Stan Tyzka - Traded him a video of OLP for the Portnoy instructional video. Until I sent the vid he would reply to my emails within that day, AFTER I sent out my video I never heard from him.
3. Satu Reunanen (sorry if I misspelled that) - I sent him some TNT stuff and he's supposed to send me some audio tapes. I've been emailing him and he doesn't respond, maybe this will get his attention.
If and when I ever get my stuff from these people I will post it right away. It's getting to the point where we're going to need a bad traders list just for ytsejammers. these three along with Al Balka.. and Jeremy Haynes/Sue Moscardini is giving us a good start.
Scott
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Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:45:14 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Webb <ryanwebb@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Petition Message-ID: <199703181845.KAA28146@iberia.it.earthlink.net>
OK!! The DT petition is being mailed today! finally.... Thanks to all of you who signed it, and thanks to the commitee members who made this all possible :) And extra thanks to subtlerage for printing the thing, and getting it in the mail, I know that was a huge job :)
Ryan
P.S. THE PETITION IS BEING MAILED!!! WOOHOO!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:14:16 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: in rebuttal of Graham's post... Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970318130118.26987A-100000@enteract.com>
> Thanks for your 'words of wisdom' Chris, surely you could have used private > e-mail to get your point across > instead of your childish public name calling problem > Do you have a tape of the shows ? You might want to point your accusing > big finger at the ppl who taped the show. > Ryan was only trying to give ppl like me who didn't attend the shows or > haven't got a boot something new to tie us over until the album is out.
Nice try. First off, I already commented that the part of that message that was directed at Ben belonged in private e-mail. Get over it. Second, I DO NOT have any boots from the Fix shows, despite numorous offers. The band specifically asked us not to bootleg the show, or pass around bootlegs. Normally they don't intervene, but this time they made a specific request. You can't honor that? Perhaps my name calling was a bit childish, but the inability to control oneself, and the lack of respect for the band, I think, is a far more severe problem. I did not have an opportunity to see one of the DT shows either. You won't get sympathy from me there. I do not condone OR condemn anyone for taping the shows. You have to expect a show like that to be bootlegged. The problem is when you make the bootleg songs that public. It's one thing to have an underground tape swap going on with fix shows. It's another thing altogether to have them at point and click access. And then to advertise about them? It's not Ryan's place to give the Ytsejam something to tide us over. That's entirely up to the band and to the record label. As nice a gesture as one might take it, it's harmful, and against the band's wishes. This is not Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. This is the Ytsejam fucking things up for the band they claim to pay tribute to.
- Chris Ptacek
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:45:53 +0000 From: His Immortal Logness <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov> To: YtseSplooge <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Tolerance a.k.a. go get angry somewhere else (like the schoolyard) Message-ID: <332EF0F1.148E@mailstorm.dot.gov>
> 2) DT would blow Megadeth off the stage.
You must be referring to when James hits "Whew!" on TTT :)
> Megadeth has been around longer and currently has a larger fan base > than DT, so for him to be saying something positive about DT i think > really says alot.
It says his metal brain has far from corroded.
> WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU???
Nothing. I'm ok, you're ok...
> Let's, just for the sake of argument, invent a brand new form of pop > music and see what our keen, objective minds can make of it.... > [invention/discovery snipped]
Objective, but biased. However, you make a good point. See below, if you dare :)
> The idea here is not so much to set up a pecking order or hierarchy, > but to point out that there are objective measures for the level > of craftsmanship and quality in different styles of music.
Fair enough. One of the best measures of success is the repsect assigned by one's peers, not by marketing weenies. The only thing they have to objective about is the bottom line. Period. It's not right, but it doesn't have to be. It only has to put food on the table.
Repeat after me: there is no correlation between the quality of a product and its success marketplace.
I (and my sick mind) thought what if a new genre of music appeared on the scene which involved sounds produced from torturing small, defenseless animals. Now most of us, I would gather, find this unacceptable behavior. That's my subjective assessment of the people on here. Maybe there are several (perhaps many) who enjoy this type of sound and would anxiously await to see a group perform live.
Guess what: There'd be someone out there that would try to market it.
> I hope that a few people give some thought to this before someone > points a giant finger (careful with that thing) and yells, "Elitist!" > Hey, I know it's going to happen. After all, this IS the internet.
Too true! A quick re-coil is needed so that the finger doesn't get bitten off :)
*------------*------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*------------------------*--------------*
If I'd started from the top, And worked my way down There'd be no reason, To live forever To live forever - Dream Theater
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2362 **************************
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