YTSEJAM Digest 2365
Today's Topics:
1) Wanted ...
by evic@goodnet.com (Evicerator)
2) fix for 96 tapes
by VV <mtar@ny.frontier.net>
3) Kevin vs. Derek
by EricD91011@aol.com
4) 2363: A mind oddessy
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
5) Progressive or Regressive??
by David Sabetai <DAVIDJON@worldnet.att.net>
6) MAJOR BOOTLEGGERS BUSTED!!!! (and am I pissed) (fwd)
by MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net>
7) Enchant
by "Bruce D. Duesterhoeft" <bduesterhoeft@enter.net>
8) 2364, no more! no more! (yeah, right!)
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
9) Tribute
by "Bruce D. Duesterhoeft" <bduesterhoeft@enter.net>
10) Re: Progressive or Regressive??
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
11) RE: Century Media Warning!!
by Matt Mommaerts <mattymo@inxpress.net>
12) Re: 2364, no more! no more! (yeah, right!)
by "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
13) Bad traders my ass!
by "Ollila Marko" <marko.ollila@tppalv2.metsaserla.fi>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:28:45 -0700 (MST)
From: evic@goodnet.com (Evicerator)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Wanted ...
Message-ID: <199703190228.TAA15797@mailque.goodnet.com>
Heya guys...
I'm wondering, does anyone have a line on an old Electro-Harmonix
Zipper pedal?? If you do, I'd greatly appreciated letting me know how much
you'd be willing to part with it for...until next time :) Mail me privately at:
Thanx again!!
-Steve
-Steve
==========================\\ "As a child, I thought I could live without pain;
,---,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,\ without sorrow.
|\ /. |' | But as a man, I've found it's all caught up with
||. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | me . . .I'm alseep, yet I'm so afraid..."
||| . \ | -John Petrucci
||| . . \| \
||| .,,,,,,,,,,/| ' ___ ___ _________ _________|\
|||< | | |V| /|.' />-. ,-</ , .\\\\\\/'/
||| \\\\\\\\\\\\| ||| /,/ / , / /, / \/
||| . ' . ||| /,/ / , / /, /
||| . /| ||| /,/ / , / /, /
||| .,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/ | ||| /,/ / , / /, / ./
|||<-<> >< | ||\\/,/ / , / |* ,,,,,,,. /.
|/_\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ; '^_\_/ /--'___\-</ \\\\\\\\\\|/
'
=======================================================================//
|| Talk slow, Drive Fast. || Remember that racing is the only sport //
==========================// that requires two balls. //
//=========================================//
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:15:25 -0500
From: VV <mtar@ny.frontier.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: fix for 96 tapes
Message-ID: <332F5A4D.1E37@ny.frontier.net>
All I want to know is...where do I get a copy of one of those tapes?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:19:19 -0500 (EST)
From: EricD91011@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Kevin vs. Derek
Message-ID: <970318221832_886648472@emout17.mail.aol.com>
Okay, I have decided to become the offical bookey on this one. Anyone
willing to put money on who can get an album out first, Kevin with Chroma Key
or Derek with Dream Theater, e-mail me now. Who will win, the former master
of lyrics and the piano or the new guy who likes the dirty organ? All bills
and credit cards excepted, take the time.
-Eric
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 21:41:38 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 2363: A mind oddessy
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970319034138.00bba6d4@enteract.com>
I'm going to reply as briefly as possible to these things. The brevity of
the statements I make should not be viewed as insulting. I want to argue
this rationally, now that I and the rest of the jam has calmed down. I
apologize if this comes off wrong.
>I definitely want these songs
>now, and I will still buy the album when it comes out. Where did all the
>policemen come from? I left the list for a year, and came back to this
>crybaby crap. Just think of what we all could discuss if we all had those
>songs.
It's not about policing or crying. I don't care what you do outside
of the jam. But I DON'T want to see the reprocussions of your actions
affect this list, as actions of jammers against DT have done in the past.
If you want to tape the shows, fine. If you want to distribute them, fine.
But if you're going to advertise on THIS list, and drag the reputation of
the jam and the jammers down any further, then I am going to stand up and be
vocal in my opposition.
>KAI
>
>ps. I really think DT anticipated the shows to be taped, and have really
>given up on caring about bootlegging. They know that we will all buy the
>album anyway (probably several copies).
This is not justification. And if the band didn't care about
bootlegging, why would they put the effort in to ask us not to tape the shows?
>Hey there...
> I plowed through the more than a dozen jams that filled my box
>while I was away on business, and what can I say? The subject says it
>all. You guys wear me out sometimes. Except Ptacek, he just makes me
>laugh...
Although I'm almost positive that's an insult, I'll take it as a
compliment. Thank you. :) You have to be able to laugh at someone.
>The new album will most likely NOT be released in '97. Let's face it,
>they'd practically have to start recording tomorrow for that to happen.
>Whenever a band drops off the scene for a couple years and there is no
>buzz going around about them, they lose a lot of their marketability.
>Personally, I don't are if the guys become as big as Metallica, but I
>want to make damned sure they get SOME support from their label.
1). When the recording will be released is not relevant to the
argument. 2). We are generating a buzz about the band by selling out their
concerts, still buying their releases, signing and sending the petition, and
even being on this list. 3). Showing the label that the band has little
enough respect for them as to allow new material to be released before the
label gives the green light, whether it's great for us or not, is not
conducive to expanding label support.
>The circulation of the new material will give us something to discuss on
>the jam, to play to our friends, to play for people who haven't heard DT
>or simpy TO TALK ABOUT.
It would do the same thing in a few months when it's legally
released and.or when the band says it's okay to do it. Your argument is
basically saying "I don't have enough willpower to wait for the next album
to come out... so I'll just go against the band's deliberate request".
>Finally, I think its a little hippocritical for us to suddenly decide NOT
>to use already-existing bootlegs of the shows when many jammers couldn't
>even make it to the east coast.
I was not at the show. The "Already existing" point doesn' make
sense to me. If you can make it more clear to my ears, perhaps we'd have no
argument.
> All along we have known that Jon
>Petrucci HATES bootlegs, as does KJLB, but we've still bought/produced CD
>boots against their wishes.
The only boots I've bought have been Bahr's bootlegs. He has the
green light from the band and from management.
- Chris
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 03:44:25 +0000
From: David Sabetai <DAVIDJON@worldnet.att.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Progressive or Regressive??
Message-ID: <19970319034423.AAA26222@LOCALNAME>
Jammers,
Have some of you forgot what the word progressive means? Some of you
guys expect a progressive band to stay stagnant. For example, some Jammers
have said DT should make their next album sound like I+W or Queensryche
should make another Operation: Mindcrime. That is not progressive music in
fact its regressive music. Each band should be allowed to evolve as they
please. Some of you are the musical Gestapo, you want to strip musicians of
their freedom. If Queensryche wants a new sound, let them be. It's their
choice, not yours. What you guys have to understand is that people change.
Look at Rush. They have had 4 distinct periods of their music. They have
certainly PROGRESSED from "Finding My Way" (which could fool Led Zeppelin
into thinking they used to have an alias called Rush.) You cannot expect
Metallica to be a heavy metal group for 15+ years (even though their name
implies it.) Many of you change your hair cut, change the settings on your
amp or buy another musical instrument to get a different sound. Are you sell
outs? Thats all a band does when they change, they do not always sell out.
Hell, by most Jammers standards I've already sold my soul and my future
children's souls to the devil and the money gods and I'm only 18.
"The only constant in life is change."
Isaac
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:53:29 -0800 (PST)
From: MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: MAJOR BOOTLEGGERS BUSTED!!!! (and am I pissed) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199703190353.TAA14031@lithuania.it.earthlink.net>
A friend of mine forwarded this to me. If you collect CD boots, get em now!
>Reply-To: vanhalen@lists.fdt.net
>To: Vanhalen@lists.fdt.net
>Subject: MAJOR BOOTLEGGERS BUSTED!!!! (and am I pissed)
>
>Hi everyone
>
>I'm just posting to the list and haven't read any of my e-mail so forgive
>me if this has
>already been touched upon.
>
>A former bootlegger has turned states evidence in a joint sting operation
>involving FBI and custom officials.
>This guy invited 14 of the BIGGEST European bootleg CEO's (if you will)
>on the premise of money and cd's.
>He took them to Disney world the day before and then had em' busted the
>very next day!
>
>This will DEFINITELY dry up the supply so get your "imports" while there
>hot!!!!!!!!!
>PRICES WILL DEFINITELY INCREASE AS SUPPLIES TURN INTO SHORTAGES!!!!
>As far as my sources have indicated; Japan was north affected by this
>bust.
>THE BOOTLEG WORLD IS CRUMBLING .
>
>I would suggest the following :
>1) DO NOT POST YOUR " IMPORT SOURCES" TO PUBLIC LISTS !!!
>A (do it by private e-mail)
>B(don't even do A if you have to)
>
>I could go on but you get the picture.
>Maybe Rex could clarify this since he lives in Florida.
>Also a full article is available at the Rolling Stones web site "Stickey
>Fingers".
>You'll have to check your search engines as I understand this is a new
>site.
>
>COLLECTORS UNITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>ROGER
>WWOTR
>
>
>
>
***************************************************************************
Kill Kill Kill..... the White Man; Kill him until he is dead.
Kill Kill Kill the White Man. Thank you.
Howard Stern as Mamalookaboobooday
Detroit's first black traffic reporter
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:03:49 -0500
From: "Bruce D. Duesterhoeft" <bduesterhoeft@enter.net>
To: YtseGods <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Enchant
Message-ID: <332F65A5.38B3@enter.net>
Recieved Enchant's 'A Blueprint of the World'.
I reaaly like, they might not be the most talented band out there, but
they have a good sound. Although you can pick up aspects of other
groups in their sound.
They are not popish as someone I think said before.
I would recommend this to any DT fan.
later
Bruce D. Duesterhoeft
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:01:55 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 2364, no more! no more! (yeah, right!)
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970319040155.00bd6c60@enteract.com>
Again, as brief as i could. My apologies ad absurdum.
>On the other hand, giving us a show with new songs and telling us not to
>record them is like putting a bottle of booze in front of an alcoholic &
>telling him not drink it. It's been such a loooooooooong time since we've
>had any new material from the boys that it seems a little unreasonable to
>think it's not going to be circulated.
What's with the lack of willpower? We may all be addicted to DT
mentally, but we aren't chemically addicted. You CAN resist making tapes of
the shows. You CAN resist distributing them. You CAN resist making them
readily available through advertisements on the jam. You are legally
OBLIGATED to resist. You should be MORALLY obligated to resist when the
band puts its collective foot down and says "Don't do this".
>Believe me, the
>people that are getting these shows (and I hope I'm one of them) are not
>gonna say "well now that I got the fix for 96 shows I'm not even going
>to bother buying the new album."
I totally agree with this. But it can have negative connotations
with the label, and it's bad for the band AND the list. I believe many of
the people on this list would buy Portnoy's underwear. That doesn't mean
they should steal the shirt off his back.
>From: Ben Laussade <laussade@m5.sprynet.com>
>Subject: Chris's post thingy.
>Guys, guys, guys...
> Ease up on the clips thing. This is the one reason why it shouldn't matter:
>
> Like anybody who's fanatic enough about DT to join the list in the first
>place is really going to NOT buy the album when it comes out just because
>they heard a few short clips.
It's still advertising through the jam that we have tapes of a show
they asked us not to tape. Don't make US ALL dig out of YOUR hole if you
want to break the rules.
> I don't see you yelling at Mike Bahr for putting Raise the Knife on
>Precious Things...in fact...
Understand, please. Mike Bahr's bootlegs have been accepted by the
band, and they have agreed to let him continue to pursue this. This is the
ONLY reason I'm buying the cd(s). Not that I dislike Bahr; I am not opposed
to hearing the new music, or I'd be boycotting the concerts they're playing
(which I'm passively doing by living in the midwest). I am opposed to tapes
of the shows, and clips of the tapes, being ciculated publicly through a
forum that has been officially asked not to.
> I suggest you don't complain about stuff you're guilty of.
I must be psychic, because I've been following your suggestion for a
few days now.
>****and I didn't send this in private email, because more than a few
>jammers were talking about the giving away new music thing.
I don't argue the validity of your post. That was jam material.
>2. I do not advocate the making of a CD boot from any of these shows.
>3. I do, however, think that a tape tree should be started on the list, so
>that in the privacy of our own little intimate list, we could listen to,
>enjoy, and converse about the new material.
1). Many of the boots out there came from (Wanna guess?) tapes. You
can take a tape and record it onto a cd. This is the prime example of one
that would be in high demand. I've already heard rumors of a Fix show on
disc in Europe. 2).This list is not an intimate thing. 900 people is not
intimate. A tape would spread from this list. I guarantee it.
>6. I have every respect for Dream Theater, and the members individually.
I don't have the original post in which the request was brought up.
The fact that my sentiment has been mirrored should be proof enough that I'm
not some crackhead making this stuff up. Someone will be able to get that
post if we try hard enough. If you have this respect for Dream Theater,
would you desist, knowing that the band frowned upon this behavior? The
fact that you deny the existance of the request makes me believe that you
would not. That's not a personal attack. If you want to do boots, do em.
Just not publicly on this list.
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:05:37 -0500
From: "Bruce D. Duesterhoeft" <bduesterhoeft@enter.net>
To: YtseGods <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Tribute
Message-ID: <332F6611.6577@enter.net>
What trubite?
Bruce D. Duesterhoeft
ps. Someone said that they don't think DT will be out with their new
album by the end of this year.
Why not? They have everything written, all they have to do is record
with a producer (if they have one) and they could easily be done by the
end of the summer.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:27:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Progressive or Regressive??
Message-ID: <01IGNZSKATLUAUTOBH@alma.edu>
I've been meaning to write about this for a long, long time. I think that
the definition that some people on this list use for the word "progressive"
are just absurd. Many people have said lately that we have to expect DT and
QR to change their sound from album to album, since this is the very definition
of prog, and not to change would be hideously un-proggy. Well guess what?
Metallica is progressive. Pearl Jam, from what I've heard on this list
recently, is progressive. Megadeth? Progressive. Van Halen? They're so
progressive, they keep changing singers so no one will call them regressive.
This is ridiculous. Ordinarily, I would be the last one to categorize music
beyond the most basic genres of rock, classical, yodeling, etc. But if you're
going to categorize this music as progressive, you can't define a genre of
music by the mere fact that it never sounds the same. I play the guitar. I
like to think that I keep getting better. And even though I've never released
an album, can't find a band to save my life, and really haven't even written
anything, at least I know that I'm progressive, 'cause my playing doesn't sound
like it did a year ago. Right?
The other definition of progressive that seems to prevail on this list is
that it is simply another style of music that is defined in much the same way
that "grunge", "cock rock", or even country are all defined. That is to say,
a certain kind of vocals, fast guitar solos, technical drumming, etc. This
works better, since there's actually something here to define it with. But
these same people tend to be the ones who have a superior attitude about
"prog", as if it's a higher form of music as compared to alternative or
whatever. But by this definition, there's really no basis to this argument.
How much soul, feeling, emotion, or whatever a kind of music has has nothing
to do with solos, vocals, etc. You can't say that a form of music is superior
based on stylistic elements like these, since this is purely a matter of taste
and opinion.
I've have always thought of "progressive" as more of an approach to
songwriting. I guess this could be called a philosophy on music, more than a
style. This different approach to music stresses complexity, but not
necessarily technicality. And by complexity I mean that the music goes
somewhere, taking a melodic theme, exploring it, changing it, and seeing what
you end up with when all is said and done. What instruments are used are not
so much an issue to me. Now this is just how I used to think of it. To be
honest, I don't really care what progressive is anymore, because if the word
ever had any meaning on this list it certainly doesn't anymore, what with all
the differing uses of it. And I'm certainly not expecting anyone else to agree
with my definition, I just thought I should toss mine out there after ripping
on everyone elses.
I'm not sure if I've made any sense or not here, but I guess my point, if
you're still here for it, is that I'd like to see a little discusion on the
list about this. Frankly, at the risk of pissing everyone off, I get the
impression lately that alot of people here (certainly not everyone) just use
the word prog to signify this sacred form of music that is superior to all
others, but in fact these people just like it the same way others like country,
alternative, whatever. It's just a trend they've gotten caught up in, and this
list provides a good forum for them to reinforce their belief that their music
is "better". I wouldn't have posted something this negative a year ago, but
frankly, I don't care if I piss 90% of the people on this list off anymore.
The closemindedness around here lately amazes me. If two or three people get
my point, which I admittedly haven't stated very clearly, it's worth pissing
everyone else off for. I'm not directing this at everyone, or even nearly
everyone, but I just have seen a lot of really idiotic posts about "prog"
lately.
And no, I don't think one form of music is superior to another, in case
I didn't make that clear. I do think that some forms of music require more
thought than others to appreciate, a list on which prog is far from the top,
but music is more important to some people than others, and this doesn't mean
that people who listen to simpler music are stupider, they just have different
prioreties.
Sorry this is so long. If you're going to flame me, please do so
privately, but read what I wrote first.
-Clark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:40:59 -0600
From: Matt Mommaerts <mattymo@inxpress.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: RE: Century Media Warning!!
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970318234059.006d5b0c@inxpress.net>
>Subject: Century Media Warning!!
>Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.970318175400.12806A-100000@bjerknes>
>
>Hello folks,
>
>Here's a warning to everyone out there:
>
>I haven't had enough experiences to really some to a conclusion, but I'm
>0 for 1 so far with Century Media. I ordered Leviathan's new CD
>"Riddles, Questions, Poetry, and Outrage" (something like that) over 2
>months ago, and I finally got the package yesterday, only to find the
>WRONG CD inside. That pissed me off to say the least!
>
>Anyway, just thought some of oyu might want to know about my first
>experience with Century Media.
I host a metal radio show in Madison, WI. I have not received any new
releases from Century Media in the last few months... They do have a new
phone number, and I think they moved or had to re-organize or something. I
should find out more next week when my contact there is back from vacation!
"MattyMo"
mattymo@inxpress.net
Personal Home Page: http://www.inxpress.net/~mattymo
WORT-FM Mosh Pit page: http://www.inxpress.net/~mattymo/moshpit
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 22:29:25 +0000
From: "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: 2364, no more! no more! (yeah, right!)
Message-ID: <199703190541.VAA08969@odin.ax.com>
> I totally agree with this. But it can have negative connotations
> with the label, and it's bad for the band AND the list. I believe many of
> the people on this list would buy Portnoy's underwear. That doesn't mean
> they should steal the shirt off his back.
Dirty or clean underwear? I'd rather get soiled otherwise how would
I know they just weren't your old undies? Hmmm? How much does
bodding start at? It's as close to a DT memebers butt as I'll ever
get. :)
Actually, I've come to agree with Chris and Rip. Getting these fix
tapes would be like opening your Christmaspresents early. I would
rather listen to a clean studio copy of the songs rather than some
shitty cheaply burned CD pressed in someone's basement.
The point is, I personally don't give a damn if you guys want to
spoil the magic of getting the new album. Don't you remember buying
Awake and being able to compare with other jammers what your first
impressions were? Don't you remember what fun that was? When I
first bought Awake I had not even had a clue as to what it was gonna
be like and it totally blew me away. I'd rather enjoy that feeling
again than have it ruined because I let my own inadequacies pressure
me into getting a Fix for 96 boot. I say you guys do what you wanna
do, but keep it off the jam.
Heh.
KorgX3 NOT The "Other" Ibanez (anymore)
http://www.webspawner.com/users/KorgX3
ibanez@cyberhighway.net
"Well, I try to write music that Indiana Jones would listen to."
--David Arkenstone
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 97 07:44:27 +0200
From: "Ollila Marko" <marko.ollila@tppalv2.metsaserla.fi>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Bad traders my ass!
Message-ID: <9703190744.aa27@tppalv2.metsaserla.fi>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids...
>Not a Strat/Sup tour to come. Someone on a past 'jam, probably a month
>ago, mentioned they saw them together in Germany for one show, I believe.
This is weird also because the first time Timo Kotipelto ever heard Superior
was last week. I'd pass this remark as well. :) An irritating nitpicker, an
I not? :)
>But the point remains...Europeans are incredibly lucky.
True. :)
Scott Cook said about "BAD TRADERS"
>I've thought a lot about doing this because I don't like accusing people
>of this but I think it's only fair to other jammers that they know.
>
>1. Neil Gallop - I sent him a audio tape OVER A YEAR ago for a dub of
>Vanden Plas (sp?) and I've yet to receive it.
Yeah right. Did you remind him about this before posting it here? Whereas
Neil is definitely not a bad trader (albeit a bit slow at times, but most of
us do have a life apart from tape trading), his memory is unbelievably bad.
>3. Satu Reunanen (sorry if I misspelled that) - I sent him some TNT stuff
>and he's supposed to send me some audio tapes. I've been emailing him and
>he doesn't respond, maybe this will get his attention.
First off, Satu is a she. Secondly, Satu is a she. And thirdly, as someone
who's traded 100+ tapes with her I can assure you that she's not a bad trader.
She just has a life besides trading and right now she is tending her possibly
terminally ill pet. Besides, the stuff on the tapes you sent her isn't TNT.
Would you care to tell us what it is? Hmmm?
_Mape_
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2365
**************************
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