YTSEJAM Digest 2364
Today's Topics:
1) Intellectual Property
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
2) Here we go again!!
by MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net>
3) Fix for 96 tapes
by MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net>
4) To tape or not to tape?
by Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net>
5) Re: URGENT!! Anybody got John Arch Session with DT???
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
6) fix stuff
by "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com>
7) Chris's post thingy.
by Ben Laussade <laussade@m5.sprynet.com>
8) Take the Time
by Ben Laussade <laussade@m5.sprynet.com>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2363
by Mike Hill <psytron@ntr.net>
10) Century Media Warning!!
by Jonathan Case <jcase@BJERKNES.METR.uoknor.edu>
11) Re: Intellectual Property
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
12) QR in Baltimore
by Taco Belhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
13) Squeeze it on
by Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com>
14) coupla things
by Kramer <CK78729@ltu.edu>
15) cd interactive multimedia on albums
by Tymoteusz Altman <altman@sfu.ca>
16) on the subject of fix
by "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
17) CD Extras/Goth-Bands/John Arch
by Soul Madness <mcauburn@iinc.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:43:24 -0800
From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Intellectual Property
Message-ID: <199703182243.OAA13825@main.cfmc.com>
>From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
>
>This is bullshit. If DT didn't want the songs heard, they shouldn't have
>played them. They know how obsessive/compulsive their fans are, especially
>ytsejammers. How many of you had a copy of Awake before it was released.
>I sure as hell did. There's nothing wrong with the fans having the
>material earlier than the actual release. We should all have these shows,
>just so we'll have something interesting to talk about on the jam, cuz it's
>been pretty boring lately. Plus, we all know that having a bootleg of the
>material will absolutely not hinder any of us from buying the new album
>when it comes out. Every single show that DT ever plays, should be taped -
>and I think the band should lighten up about it, and start recognizing
>their fans' needs. Anyone, with any of the FIX 96 shows, I want them all,
>and will trade well for them. Email me for my list.
Hate to say this, but the rights to this music IS reserved. That is, from a
legal standpoint, they have every right to tell you NOT to record what they
play live. That some bands eschew these rights doesn't mean that ALL bands
have to. Basically, in their position, I don't think I'd mind the taping in
general, as it seems to fill a need for devout fans. But they have every
right to prevent their life's work from being exploited as public domain.
That there's a demand for this stuff DOESN'T make it ethically right. I
don't have anything against boots, per se, but I don't agree with the above
sentiment and I don't agree with the way it's argued.
Adam D. Barnhart
adamb@cfmc.com
ydnt85a@prodigy.com
http://www.cfmc.com/adamb
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 14:59:53 -0800 (PST)
From: MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net>
To: Ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Here we go again!!
Message-ID: <199703182259.OAA10253@armenia.it.earthlink.net>
Itchy Scratched:
>Personally, I don't think "boring" is the right word for this list.
>It's just uninteresting for Dream Theater fans, because no one even
>*mentions* them here.
Oh, but you DO? This is the ONLY way I ever hear you mention DT is
when you're complaining that the rest of us don't mention them. If
you've got something to say then SAY IT ALREADY! I could care less
if you never mention Dream Theater, it's that you never mention
DT in your posts and then yell at the rest of us for not mentioning
them. So chill!
>The lack of new material is no excuse for flamewars and off-topic
>posts. We should be going for quality, not quantity. If you don't
>have anything interesting to say, don't say it.
Practice what you preach!
Just some things to consider :
>6. Before posting, ask yourself if anyone's interested in reading
> what you have to say. Don't post for the sake of posting.
Sounds good to me. By the way, did you read this before you posted it?
>8. If you're posting under the name "MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY",
> please do *not* respond to this message.
If you don't want the King of all Mailing Lists (aka MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY)
responding to your posts then don't post them.
>Mark, a 26-year old guy from Rotterdam who can't shut the fuck up.
Scott, a 35 year old guy from San Francisco who likes to point out
hipocracy when he sees it.
***************************************************************************
Kill Kill Kill..... the White Man; Kill him until he is dead.
Kill Kill Kill the White Man. Thank you.
Howard Stern as Mamalookaboobooday
Detroit's first black traffic reporter
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:10:44 -0800 (PST)
From: MAMALOOKABOOBOODAY <skooc@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Fix for 96 tapes
Message-ID: <199703182310.PAA11552@armenia.it.earthlink.net>
Some people have gotten upset that others are passing bootlegs around of
the fix for 96 shows. I understand the feeling because it's pretty well
known that the band didn't want these shows bootlegged since there were
songs performed that are from a yet to be released album.
On the other hand, giving us a show with new songs and telling us not to
record them is like putting a bottle of booze in front of an alcoholic &
telling him not drink it. It's been such a loooooooooong time since we've
had any new material from the boys that it seems a little unreasonable to
think it's not going to be circulated. Besides, say every single person
on the jam gets a copy, that's what, about 700 copies? Believe me, the
people that are getting these shows (and I hope I'm one of them) are not
gonna say "well now that I got the fix for 96 shows I'm not even going
to bother buying the new album." I think the opposite will happen, us
die-hards will hear this stuff and be so pumped that we'll be at our CD
store fist thing day of release to buy it.
This isn't meant to make anyone hostile, I've just seen people flaming
back and forth over this and I'm trying to show both sides of the issue.
Scott
***************************************************************************
Kill Kill Kill..... the White Man; Kill him until he is dead.
Kill Kill Kill the White Man. Thank you.
Howard Stern as Mamalookaboobooday
Detroit's first black traffic reporter
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:16:36 -0500
From: Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: To tape or not to tape?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970318231636.00689554@nfx.net>
Kai wrote:
<< This is bullshit. If DT didn't want the songs heard, they shouldn't have
played them. They know how obsessive/compulsive their fans are, especially
ytsejammers. How many of you had a copy of Awake before it was released.
I sure as hell did. There's nothing wrong with the fans having the material
earlier than the actual release. >>
(This is not directed personally at Kai, but rather a general response; it
was a convenient comment to cut-and-paste)
As has been pointed out before, yes, there is something wrong when Mike
Portnoy SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED that people not tape the material. Just
because we are fans -- or on this list, for that matter -- does not put us
"above the law," so to speak. We are not entitled to any special treatment,
like obtaining copies of half the CD before the label will even let the band
in the studio to actually record it. It's not DT's fault that the delays
keep piling up.
It's *because* some fans (YtseJammers or not) are so obsessive/compulsive
that they cannot respect a simple request like that that Portnoy should have
known it wasn't going to happen. I concur with Chris that the bootlegging
for personal use and underground trading was going to happen one way or
another, but public distribution as such is a big no-no if the band
specifically asked otherwise. They didn't HAVE to play the Christmas shows
or premiere unfinished versions of songs at clinics. Those are privileges.
Abuse those privileges, and they can be whisked away. The band's been good
to us thus far -- so don't push our collective luck.
Patience is a virtue, people. We're all eager to hear the new material.
Just hold your shorts until the label gets its head out of its ass and lets
the band record.
::stepping off soapbox::
Jaime the Dragon
-- jkimpton@nfx.net"This has been a test of the Emergency Savior System. If it had been a real emergency, your chosen deity would have contacted you immediately. This is only a test. --
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:26:06 -0500 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: URGENT!! Anybody got John Arch Session with DT??? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970318182606.00a96950@pophost.fore.com>
OH NO!!!!!! There's another Kai on the list. What's worse is that it's your real name. Fuck!!
OK, I'll stick to my trademark all capital letter name, to distinguish between us. Man this sucks.
Later, KAI (a.k.a. Eric Rodger, but nobody here knows me as that.)
ps. BTW, I have the sessions your looking for, but they're not downloadable. Contact me if you want a tape.
At 02:36 PM 3/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi there, > >I'm seeking for the John Arch session with Dream Theater. Can anyone tell me >where I can get it or even download? I've been seeking for any stuff >featuring John Arch, but, unfortunately, without success so far. I'd be the >gladest if anyone can tell me. >best wishes >Kai > > >
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:01:54 +0000 From: "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: fix stuff Message-ID: <19970318232817.AAA1731@subtlerage.avalon.net>
> This is bullshit. If DT didn't want the songs heard, they shouldn't have > played them. They know how obsessive/compulsive their fans are, especially > ytsejammers.
yes, well, i think we've shown that. let's back track a bit here... regardless of your opinions about bootlegging it is illegal. DT and their management could crack down on the people on this list, as they DO read it on a regular basis. but, since they're very nice to their fans, they allow bootlegging. if it weren't for this, you would've never heard about Bahr's stuff. nor would the boots be openly acessable on this list. DT wanted to do a favor for their fans by playing some shows. they asked that the shows not be taped. they have their reasons for this, none of which is really our business. i think given their attitudes and fan support in the past, it shouldn't even be an issue. we should abide by their wishes and not trade the fix boots. or, as it's been suggested by others, do it in private. at least show an ounce of respect for the band and keep it quiet.
and i'm sorry, and i'll probably piss alot of people off by saying this, but if you truly feel you CANNOT wait until the album is released to hear the material, that it will prove detrimental to your existence, then you really need to get a life. Dream Theater is a great band, but they aren't gods, which many people seem to forget.
-Andrew
Andrew Miller - keyboardist/vocalist - subtlerage http://www.subtlerage.com - subtlerage@subtlerage.com "first impressions" released. .wav files available
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:30:51 -0800 From: Ben Laussade <laussade@m5.sprynet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Chris's post thingy. Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970318153051.0068994c@m5.sprynet.com>
Guys, guys, guys... Ease up on the clips thing. This is the one reason why it shouldn't matter:
Like anybody who's fanatic enough about DT to join the list in the first place is really going to NOT buy the album when it comes out just because they heard a few short clips.
I don't see you yelling at Mike Bahr for putting Raise the Knife on Precious Things...in fact...
>PRECIOUS THINGS ORDERS PAID (SOLD OUT!) > >082 Chris Ptacek 083 Chuck Reis 084 Tim Green
Well, would you look at that! And PT has the full song..not just a two minute clip that wouldn't do the song justice, or even come close. I suggest you don't complain about stuff you're guilty of.
****and I didn't send this in private email, because more than a few jammers were talking about the giving away new music thing.
Ben Laussade
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 15:38:55 -0800 From: Ben Laussade <laussade@m5.sprynet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Take the Time Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970318153855.0068994c@m5.sprynet.com>
>The 12/8 marking in the >score matches the wrong note measures, the number of the notes between >two measure bars is the same as if it were reported to be in 4/4 and >triplets. >Any ideas? >
Whoa whoa whoa! 12/8 is abosulely correct for the beginning. Tap 8th notes in 12/8 before the transition into the 4/4 part (with the groovy bassline)...they still go with the beat. They're 16th notes now. If you were to count the 12/8 as triplets in 4/4...then for the transition, you'd have to have a whole new tempo marking etc...Oh wait! Screw that, the part after the transition is in 6/4! So, 12/8 to 6/4 is just half time (sorta). There. :) The book is correct on time sigs..but don't ask me bout notes, haven't a clue. :-) Okay, I'm gonna beat the crap out of my drums. Later.
Ben Laussade
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:36:11 -0500 From: Mike Hill <psytron@ntr.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2363 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970318233611.00951a9c@ntr.net>
well, theres only so much space on a CD.. and seeing as how DT has so much material, i kinda doubt there will be any room left over for any multimedia things.. maybe if they did a triple disc album or something.. hehe..
mike psytron@ntr.net
>Its got a cool CD EXTRA >interactive multimedia thing that runs when you put the CD in a computer.. >I'm sure it'll get boring pretty quick, but it was quite amusing for a few >hours this morning : ) Maybe DT should do something like this on their new >album..
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:58:10 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Case <jcase@BJERKNES.METR.uoknor.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Century Media Warning!! Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.970318175400.12806A-100000@bjerknes>
Hello folks,
Here's a warning to everyone out there:
I haven't had enough experiences to really some to a conclusion, but I'm 0 for 1 so far with Century Media. I ordered Leviathan's new CD "Riddles, Questions, Poetry, and Outrage" (something like that) over 2 months ago, and I finally got the package yesterday, only to find the WRONG CD inside. That pissed me off to say the least!
SO, I had to mail the CD back via MY OWN postage (they said they'd credit me, but what good is $1.24??), and who knows who much longer I'll wait for my Leviathan CD now.......
Not to mention the Superior CD lag that we all know about at Dream Disc. (sorry Bernd - don't mean to beat this into the ground too much, cause it's not your fault, nor is it likely DD's fault).
Anyway, just thought some of oyu might want to know about my first experience with Century Media.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:12:59 -0500 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Intellectual Property Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970318191259.00a993c0@pophost.fore.com>
Hey all:
I've gotten quite a response from my post about the FIX 96 shows. I didn't even know they happened until last week, when I rejoined the list. I need to set a few things straight:
1. I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE FIX 96 SHOWS, so quit asking me for them. My post said that I wanted them, and would trade stuff for them. It did not say I have them to trade.
2. I do not advocate the making of a CD boot from any of these shows. I believe a CD boot would end up in the wrong hands, and someone else would end up making a lot of money on DT's new unreleased material.
3. I do, however, think that a tape tree should be started on the list, so that in the privacy of our own little intimate list, we could listen to, enjoy, and converse about the new material. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but this is the way I feel.
4. I never doubted the illegalities of this recording. I was in hiatus when DT apparently asked for the shows not to be taped, so could someone reiterate exactly how the request was made. I'm still under the impression that MikeP would be cool with my tape tree idea. Did he present the request?
5. As far as my ethics are concerned (see below), I own a lot of bootlegs. It's a hobby. It's actually the only hobby I have right now, other than being a network analyst. If collecting bootlegs is unethical, then I am unethical. You may be too.
6. I have every respect for Dream Theater, and the members individually. I tend to respect Mike Portnoy slightly more, because he shares some common views on this matter. Do not infer that my frustration with East/West (Electra), and my obsessive/compulsive behavior are in any way associated with my respect for this band.
Can't wait for the replies to this one!
KAI
Here's the post that someone responded with. In fact I agree with the whole thing.
> >Hate to say this, but the rights to this music IS reserved. That is, from a >legal standpoint, they have every right to tell you NOT to record what they >play live. That some bands eschew these rights doesn't mean that ALL bands >have to. Basically, in their position, I don't think I'd mind the taping in >general, as it seems to fill a need for devout fans. But they have every >right to prevent their life's work from being exploited as public domain. >That there's a demand for this stuff DOESN'T make it ethically right. I >don't have anything against boots, per se, but I don't agree with the above >sentiment and I don't agree with the way it's argued.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:18:23 -0500 (EST) From: Taco Belhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu> To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: QR in Baltimore Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970318191543.23464A-100000@umbc9.umbc.edu>
It's true!
Pat mentioned a rumor in a recent post about Queensryche appearing at Record and Tape Traders on Saturday. I just called the store and they confirmed that QR will indeed be there on saturday. Cool. I think I'll wear my Fix for '96 t-shirt and if I get a lot of interest, I'll distribute free copies of the Conneticut show.
Brandon
P.S. Lighten up about my last sentence...I was only kidding!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:33:39 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Squeeze it on Message-ID: <199703190033.TAA08118@cliff.cris.com>
Mike Hill wrote > >well, theres only so much space on a CD.. and seeing as how DT has so much >material, i kinda doubt there will be any room left over for any multimedia >things.. maybe if they did a triple disc album or something.. hehe..
Hell, maybe by the time the album is ready for release, they could put it on DVD and fit all 2 1/2 hours of it on a single disc. Wouldn't THAT be nice.
-Rick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 20:08:22 -0500 (EST) From: Kramer <CK78729@ltu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: coupla things Message-ID: <01IGNPEADCWY8ZEHEV@ltu.edu>
Man, I just got back from Spring Break and had about 40 Jams to plow through. Most people woulda deleted them, but I forced myself to read them all.
It's cool to see that other people are getting into Thought Industry. They have got to be one of the most criminally underrated bands ever. They are from here in Michigan and play in Kalamazoo all the time. Me and my band are doing our album at the same place they did their last album and their upcoming one. Their new one should be out in the summer. I love the albums they put out already, but I don't know what to expect from the new album from the new material I've been hearing at their shows. TI always had this great zany quality to them, but some of the new stuff seems a bit more conventional. Personally I loved the zany edge. They are on Metal Edge, so their albums should be relatively easy to find.
It's also cool to see Drain S.T.H. mentioned on the jam. I hate to tag them as a girl group, but they really are the best girl group I have ever heard. I saw them open up for Type O Negative and I completely fell in love with their drummer. It was really heavy, slab-like rock with awesome vocals. I want to run out and buy it, but I ordered too much stuff from Mike Bahr.
Another thing...does anyone know where I can order a copy of Michael Kiske's "Instant Clarity"? I am huge fan of Kiske era Helloween, and of Iron Maiden, so hearing Adrian Smith playing on a Kiske record would be awesome. Problem is that nobody ever releases cool shit like that here in the states. As far as Andi Deris in Helloween goes, I was really pleasantly surprised by "Master Of The Rings", but I was kind of let down by "The Time Of The Oath". The production on "Oath" definitely left much to be desired as well. Listening to the brand new CD of "Oath" was like listening to my well beat up copy of "Keeper Part 2" on cassette that I bought in 1989 production-wise. Any help I can get on tracking down "Instant Clarity" would be much apprecitated.
For any of you Detroit jammers out there, my band InnerSect will be playing at The Mosquito Club on April 16th. We will probably be the first band that night, but I am not yet sure. It's gonna be a damn cool show. Later all.
C#
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:18:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tymoteusz Altman <altman@sfu.ca> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: cd interactive multimedia on albums Message-ID: <199703190118.RAA11253@fraser>
> It is just awesome. Anyone who likes aerosmith even a little should pick > it up, I'd say its their best album since Rocks. Its got a cool CD EXTRA > interactive multimedia thing that runs when you put the CD in a computer.. > I'm sure it'll get boring pretty quick, but it was quite amusing for a few > hours this morning : ) Maybe DT should do something like this on their new > album.. the only bands that I know of that have used this are Aerosmith and > Harry Conick Jr, and both of the multimedia thisng are pretty cool. I
i know that there have been a lot more bands who did this. the tea party, and sarah maclachlan come to mind.
i think dt should do something like that. actually if they want, i can provide what i've already done in my multimedia class. Last semester i put together a multimedia cd-rom about DT. it has pictures of the band, and info about each member, the band's bio, and pictures and info about each album (with soundbites of all the songs). a user can click on various links to see/hear more.
tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 19:59:51 -0600 From: "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: on the subject of fix Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970319015951.006f5538@mail.inlink.com>
> >6. I have every respect for Dream Theater, and the members individually. I >tend to respect Mike Portnoy slightly more, because he shares some common >views on this matter.
if you have respect you'll notice that even mike p doesnt want the fix shows recorded, from every source i've heard. its not about wether we'll buy the album or not, they have their reasons, i might imagine they want everyone to be hit with the songs new fresh and how they are supposed to sound for the first time so they can be blown away when the new album comes out. whats the fun of a new album when you can already sing along to all the songs? ~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 97 21:28 EST From: Soul Madness <mcauburn@iinc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: CD Extras/Goth-Bands/John Arch Message-ID: <m0w7B7V-000Ah0C@xcalibur.iinc.com>
In hope to get something a little new discussed on the jam (even if all this is a bit boring):
Other bands that have done CD Extras include Silverchair (new CD sucked worse than last) on Freakshow and Fiona Apple on Tidal (FA being an awesome blue-sy type piano/player soul singer).
As for goth bands, I would recommend Celestial Seasons new one to anyone called Solar Lovers. The band isn't very original from what I've heard (clones of My Dying Bride) but either way, this CD is amazing. Death metal vocals, gothic-type music with 2 full time violin players and an occasional cello player. I wish I could convince you all to buy this but I suppose it isn't for everyone. Songs like Decamerone, Solar Child and the dreamy-type Soft Embalmer Of The Still Midnight are amazing. Not only does he use the death metal voice here, he also does some whispers giving it a cool effect. As an added bonus, check out the cover of the Ultarvox (???) song Vienna.
As for the John Arch material, you should've checked out Scenes From A Memory- it features a 1 minute excerpt from a DT demo of Only A Matter Of Time. I'm not sure if any copies are left. By the way, his voice was a little too screamy on this song. I've only liked few Fates songs with him on it like Damnation, Soldier Boy, The Apparition and Guardian. I've never like Ray Alder neither.
Great website plug for the day: http://www.interest.com/rocknroll They sell lots of promos but not really any progressive material..more in the vein of rocknroll as the address says. Great stuff though and this guy really does send what you order.
I've said enough
Don Compton mcauburn@iinc.com
Warrior Soul Homepage (now featuring a Whats New section, a review with more to come, liner notes, lyrics, and info on rare CD singles)
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/5784/
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2364 **************************
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