YTSEJAM Digest 2367
Today's Topics:
1) Chuckie Dahmer-icci
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
2) Re: Progressive/regressive?
by "Eddie J Cooper" <eddie@abacus.co.uk>
3) New thread possibly?!?!?? DTC!!!!!
by Mika Numminen <aarre.n@swipnet.se>
4) Classical Influences In DT
by Robert MacAusland <ab276@chebucto.ns.ca>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2363
by babs@sgenaa.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
6) bad traders again
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
7) Re: Various...
by Madelaine <maddy@enteract.com>
8) DT Bootlegs keeps DT alive!
by Cliff_Totten@discovery.com
9) Fix Boots
by Robert Rivers <gehrig4@seacoast.com>
10) Apology to Chris, hypocrisy, ACOS, Dune...
by Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
11) more taping bs
by Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net>
12) Anticipation, is making me....sick. :)
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
13) More of the same - bootlegs
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
14) Re: 2364, no more! no more! (yeah, right!)
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
15) Check it out, lay it down
by Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2366
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 04:50:04 -0500
From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Chuckie Dahmer-icci
Message-ID: <v01530500af5564d36b85@[207.79.6.164]>
I don't have the original post, but someone mentioned that they just got
WDADU, and said something like "Charlie wasn't as bad a singer as every
body made him seem, though KJL is still better".
DT wa s my favorite band for three years before I&W hit the stores. It
took me a few months to get used to LaBrie; so I'm wondering if you all
would have thought differently in this situation or if anyone else had to
"get used to" LaBrie.
-J.Keifling
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:46:16 0
From: "Eddie J Cooper" <eddie@abacus.co.uk>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Progressive/regressive?
Message-ID: <9703191145.AA02393@sphinx>
> If Queensryche wants a new sound, let them be. It's their choice, not yours.
> What you guys have to understand is that people change.
Exactly...
Surely noone who's heard all of the QR albums thinks that HitNF is the first
time they have used a different sound? If you do, then I suggest you listen
again!!
Laterz
Eddie };-)~
- DOS Tip #17: Add DEVICE=FNGRCROS.SYS to CONFIG.SYS
- "I know it all. I just can't remember it all at once."
- "If you don't go to other men's funerals they won't go to yours."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:10:45 +0100 (MET)
From: Mika Numminen <aarre.n@swipnet.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New thread possibly?!?!?? DTC!!!!!
Message-ID: <199703191310.OAA23029@mb02.swip.net>
Uhm, I just thought of a new thread, but it might have been done already,
just been here since cirka Jam #1100...
I just thought it would be cool for all people to write about the
coolest/funniest/most lame etc. stuff that has happened at DT gigs, and I
don't mean, you know you picked your nose for the first time and it tasted
great, or something, add some DTC!
These are the events that I remember from the gig in Stockholm in Feb
1995 on the Awake-tour: First of all the band enters with PMU, and JLB gets
on stage and tries to start singing, but wtf!, the mike doesn't work, so he
starts fiddling with it, nothing happens, and he get like _PISSED_ and
throws the mike up into the light and it lands about an inch from the stage
manager who gets the shock of his life.
Then JLB tries to take JPs mike but it's tangled into the stand, and it
doesn't work either, then he just walks off the stage. Talk about a good
start to a show! ;)
Then a bit later when the guys are about to start CiaW, JLB just
announces it like he used to back then, like counting the rest of the band
in, but nothing happens, he looks around furiously at MP, who is getting rid
of a towel that Derek threw at him just before, they had kind of a
towel-fight...
That's my special show... ;)
- Mika Numminen - aarre.n@swipnet.se - http://www.hgs.se/~te95mne -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:18:31 -0400
From: Robert MacAusland <ab276@chebucto.ns.ca>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Classical Influences In DT
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970319091241.11668A-100000@chebucto.ns.ca>
I have a chance this coming weekend to expose a friend to the Wonderful
World Of DT (I'll save exposing him to the 'Jam until later :) His
normal listening habits include almost exclusively classical however.
Are there are clearcut examples of classical influences with DT's body of
work (time sigs, chord progressions...) that I could point out to him?
Anything that bridges the gap between what he's used to and what I want
to show him would make things that much easier :-)
R.
P.S. If anyone has a copy of the Top 10 Reasons to Outlaw Cloning list
that was posted several 'jams ago, could they e-mail it to me?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:09:17 -0500 (EST)
From: babs@sgenaa.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2363
Message-ID: <v01510108af555c8b9a19@[137.238.26.12]>
>You're meaner than a dog shitting tacks
>
> -Burgess Meredith
>
>Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled first.
> -Burgess Meredith
I just love these sigs that Mari has! I saw a Twilight Zone a few months
back where Burgess Meredith portrayed the devil. I'm beginning to think
that he really is an evil man (laugh)...
-BABS
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:30:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: bad traders again
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970319092658.25395B-100000@bdmserver>
Mape wrote about traders having a life other than trading
1. dont agree to a trade if you dont have time to do it
2. if you agree to get a tape out by a specific day, do it, not a year
later
3. respond to emails if you owe someone tapes, ignoring them just pisses
them off more
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com |
|=======================================================================|
| "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater |
| "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:08:26 -0600
From: Madelaine <maddy@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Various...
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970319150826.006c3ad0@enteract.com>
hyp-o-crite: n. A dissembler; one given to false pretenses.
hyp-o-crit-i-cal adj.
I had 6 'jams in under 24 hours, a fact which more or less exactly failed to
please my brain. And, probably twice in each, I saw the word "hypocrite"
mentioned (although most of the time it was "hipocrit", or even
"hippocritical". Leave the hippos out of this! What did they ever do to you?
On the subject of the boots:
I think Ryan made a responsible decision in removing the clips from his
page. (even if running out of storage space was his real motive.. :) I think
it's *not* responsible that people are clamoring "Well, they knew we'd tape
it, so if they didn't want us to tape the shows, they shouldn't have done
them!" Well, maybe next time they won't. And that'll make hundreds of
non-online Jammers very pissed off because you ruined it for them.
Imagine you're driving down the road one day, and you see how happy the
drivers in the opposite lanes of traffic seem. So, disregarding every bit of
driver's ed, you hop over those bright double yellow lines just to see what
all the fuss is about. Hey, the high is *great* for those first 2.45
seconds, but then *bam* someone who *was* following the rules smacks into
you and breaks every major bone in your body.
Aren't you glad you went against what other people politely asked you *not*
to do??
Now, who's next?
Oh, and don't bother flaming me.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:52:04 -0400
From: Cliff_Totten@discovery.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT Bootlegs keeps DT alive!
Message-ID: <8525645F.00543CED.00@smtp1.discovery.com>
Cliff Totten
03/19/97 10:52 AM
I don't know if DT realizes this but bootlegs are the only thing that DT
has to keep us ACTIVE fans! These recordings keep us "minimally" satisfied
and fuel our hunger for the "real thing".
During times like this, this is their saving grace!!
Maybe they don't realize what this extended "dead time" is doing to their
loyal fan base!!!
If I were them I would do anything I could to get their fans any crappy
copies of DT material (old or new ) to keep fan base alive and ACTIVE!!!!!
I'm sorry, but this just seems so obvious to me.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:59:19 -0500
From: Robert Rivers <gehrig4@seacoast.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Fix Boots
Message-ID: <33300D57.4BE@seacoast.com>
I can learn to resist any thing but " Fix" Boots!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:01:29 -0800
From: Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Apology to Chris, hypocrisy, ACOS, Dune...
Message-ID: <199703191600.AA19019@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello!
First off: Ptacek, you making me laugh was not an insult. Day to
day, I get worn out going through the pile of jams that accumulates and
your posts, along with Bafu's among others, always get me to chuckle. I
can only assume that most times that is your intention.
As for the other aspect of that post: I don't yawn at the jam
because it bores me, I yawn because it drains me to read endless posts
that don't capitalize sentences, or break for paragraphs. Please, try to
breakdown your longer posts into paragraphs. I do not mean this as a
flame, but Rip's longer posts are an example. I enjoy reading your posts
Rip, but it gets hard to read when there are no real divisions. God I
feel so anal saying that.
Now I don't mean to sound like an English teacher, or your
mothers, but hippocrisy, hipocrissy, and hypocrosy are all spelled
HYPOCRISY. This is easily the most frequently misspelled word on this jam
and it hurts to see the mistake repeated so often.
As for ACOS, I only own and have only heard the studio version
and the two BH holiday shows of it (95, 96). Is there anyone who is
willing to make a tape of its other incarnations for me. I'm especially
interested in the one with the "neo-classical" section that has gotten
jam attention lately. Please e-mail me with ideas for payment or trade
and I will discuss.
Finally, anyone hear of info on the new release of the movie Dune
on video. If so, please e-mail me with any details you may have. And
thanks to the traffic person for the Shining info!
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:02:11 -0500
From: Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: more taping bs
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970319160211.0066350c@nfx.net>
Mike Bradley wrote (and again, my response is directed to *everyone* who
follows this line of thinking):
<< We were asked not to tape the shows. People, quite predictably,
disregarded this request. The damage has been done. Why not circulate the
new tunes for us ALL to enjoy. >>
Um... because we were asked not to do it and nobody has any right
whatsoever to go over DT's head? The damage is done, yes. That certainly
doesn't mean it should be perpetuated.
Let me put it in simple terms: You want new material to listen to. The
band said not to tape any of it and wait til the CD is released, which might
be a while because the label is jerking their collective chain. You don't
want to wait.
TOO BAD.
Good lord, you people are selfish.
Jaime the Dragon
-- jkimpton@nfx.net"This has been a test of the Emergency Savior System. If it had been a real emergency, your chosen deity would have contacted you immediately. This is only a test. --
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:22:33 -0500 From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Anticipation, is making me....sick. :) Message-ID: <199703191619.LAA09572@uhura.ici.net>
>Where did all the >policemen come from? I left the list for a year, and came back to this >crybaby crap. Just think of what we all could discuss if we all had those >songs. [snip] >ps. I really think DT anticipated the shows to be taped, and have really >given up on caring about bootlegging. They know that we will all buy the >album anyway (probably several copies).
Are you listening to what everyone else is posting here? The band SPECIFICALLY asked us NOT to tape the shows/distribute copies of the new material. That doesn't sound like have "given up on caring about bootlegging" to me. They said they didn't want the new material distributed that way. Whether we want/need something new to discuss is irrelevant.
I'm sorry you think that people respecting the band members' wishes are cry-babies. I personally think that a fan would care a little bit more about the *band's* wishes, instead of just their own. We can have the same discussions you are talking about AFTER the album comes out.
-----
>4. I never doubted the illegalities of this recording. I was in hiatus >when DT apparently asked for the shows not to be taped, so could someone >reiterate exactly how the request was made. I'm still under the impression >that MikeP would be cool with my tape tree idea. Did he present the request?
As I'm sure others will reply, yes he did. And the mere fact that he is a person who SUPPORTS boots and he requested that we not do it is enough for me.
I think they just don't want the material distributed BEFORE the album comes out. If we want to do comparisons (a la ACOS), I see no reason why the Fix shows can't be "treed" AFTER the album comes out. (I obey the spirit, if not the letter of the request. :))
-----
>Many of your points are valid, but I still assert that for us to suddenly >say that making a boot is so wrong, when we've always bought them, is >hipocritical and silly. Sure Mike Bahr makes great boots with MP's >consent, but have you ever asked James to sign one of them? I've seen it >happen and he didn't appear to be a huge fan.
But, to the best of my knowledge, no band member has ever before specifically said "Please don't distribute this material". Of course they know bootlegging happens. And yes, certain members are less tolerant of it than others. But neither JP nor KJL has ever said "Don't do this", although I'm sure they would have liked to.
>We were asked not to tape the shows. People, quite predictably, >disregarded this request. The damage has been done. Why not circulate the >new tunes for us ALL to enjoy.
Sure. As long as the noose is already around my neck, I may as well jump off the horse....
My point (and I *do* have one....):
The band has said, in essence (not a quote) - "We know you bootleg our material. Some of us don't like it, but we know shit happens. Even so, we would prefer that you not distribute this new material before WE release it".
-----
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ E-mail: psull@ici.net IRC: DDictator WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html NP: Dream Theater - "When Dream And Day Unite" ______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:37:09 -0500 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: More of the same - bootlegs Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970319113709.00a93e40@pophost.fore.com>
>>6. I have every respect for Dream Theater, and the members individually. > > I don't have the original post in which the request was brought up. >The fact that my sentiment has been mirrored should be proof enough that I'm >not some crackhead making this stuff up. Someone will be able to get that >post if we try hard enough. If you have this respect for Dream Theater, >would you desist, knowing that the band frowned upon this behavior? The >fact that you deny the existance of the request makes me believe that you >would not. That's not a personal attack. If you want to do boots, do em. >Just not publicly on this list.
I am not denying the existence of the request, however, I have specifically stated several times, that I was on hiatus when the supposed request was made, and that after asking several times how exactly the request was brought about, I haven't gotten a reply. I'm not trying to use ignorance as an excuse, however, I'm saying that from my past experience on the jam (which is more than 90% of the people here), I have my doubts about the content of the request. I still get the feeling that the band (Mike P specifically) does not want a European CD bootleg or a Mike Bahr CD bootleg made out of any of the shows, which I wholeheartedly agree with. I don't really think he would mind some people on the list having a taped copy. If I'm wrong, please present the request, to the best of your knowledge, to me.
It's getting to the point where I hope a European CD is cut, because then I can get a copy and not have to feel responsible for violating anyone's views. Keep in mind - I still don't have any of these shows, so I am not guilty of vioating anyone's request. Please keep that in mind when you're ripping me a new asshole.
KAI
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:43:41 -0500 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: 2364, no more! no more! (yeah, right!) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970319114341.00a8e430@pophost.fore.com>
>Don't you remember buying >Awake and being able to compare with other jammers what your first >impressions were? Don't you remember what fun that was? When I >first bought Awake I had not even had a clue as to what it was gonna >be like and it totally blew me away.
No - I remember having it 2 months before it was released, and talking about it on the jam, with a bunch of other people who had it early. These songs are going to change, so I want to talk about them on the jam now, and when the album is released.
>I say you guys do what you wanna >do, but keep it off the jam.
I tried that, but I'm sick of posting the same responses to multiple people, so I brought it back to the 'jam. Sorry for all the traffic for those of you not into this conversation, but it can't be any more boring than everyone's list of favorite songs. Case in point of why we need to start talking about the new tunes.
KAI
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 16:50:40 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Check it out, lay it down Message-ID: <33301960.446B@mailstorm.dot.gov>
The man who reaches for the stars wrote:
> The operative thing here is that again, like always, how much the > album sells it NOT indicative of how good it is, otherwise DT would have > been #1 for 52 weeks running, no?
Amen, Jeremiah! :) To this, I add the following:
The sooner one stops making a *contest* out of music, the happier off one will be. Just because there seems to be this obsession in society with ranking everything, doesn't mean we have to buy into it. I simply don't have time for it, there's too many other much more important things in life...
Just RELAX (or jump up and down!) and ENJOY the music! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> From: Loren Caler <llc@sure.net> > Jesus, don't you think you're being a little harsh on the guy? I mean he hasn't > even had a valid chance to prove himself on anything but ACOS as far as DT is > concerned.
I hear ya, Loren...
I was lucky enough to be able to attend the Strand show. He more than proven himself to me LIVE! He grooves with the band! If anyone doubts this, please stop by and check out the latest in electroshock attitude adjustment therapy we've been working on here at the institute. We've already had several clients who came in comparing and contrasting and left with a whole new perspective on what music is all about.
The new stuff rocks so damn hard!! What draws me to this band is that they are continuing to finds new ways to get me excited about music. Look at 'Lines in the Sand.' The way it builds at the beginning is so damn powerful. Then the double-time (I guess :) thing kicks in, smoke comes out of MP's hit-hat, JP proceeds to draw entirely too much current from the local eletric utility and you find you simply must jump up and down. If you don't, may I suggest participating in the other research we're doing here at the institute pertaining to the detection of heartbeats in lower order, non-human primates :)
Come on, folks! This fucking shit kicks!
If you've already sent in your payment, you may disregard this notice :)
Jon
*------------*------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*------------------------*--------------*
If I'd started from the top, And worked my way down There'd be no reason, To live forever To live forever - Dream Theater
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:03:34 -0600 (CST) From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2366 Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970319095429.26819A-100000@enteract.com>
> > It's not Ryan's place to give the Ytsejam something to tide us over. > Ryan's place is whatever he wants it to be.
You misunderstand, or perhaps I have failed to explain. I'm trying to assert that the way we SHOULD get new DT is by DT recording and releasing it. Not by Ryan releasing it. He doesn't have that legal right, if you want to take it to that level. He doesn't have the band's permission. And I've said it before, I'm not totally anti-bootleg. I AM against spreading them publicly. I am only so vigorously opposed to this because the band asked us not to tape or spread these shows, and it's a matter of honor that we acknowledge the request.
> Are you talking about the distribution of the bootlegs or the mailing of > the petition?
The Petition is something that we began only after expressed written consent of the band. They took no part in it, and did not influence how it was done, or what was said within it, but we refused to proceed with the petition without the band's knowledge and agreement. The bootlegs are the exact opposite. The band said no, and the jam is saying "Yeah, well... when it comes right down to it, screw you! I'm greedy!"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Rick McMahon * College of Business * Arizona State University * YtseJammer > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This dude wins the award for most bandwidth wasted on a .sig (And I win on most bandwidth wasted on an upsetting topic).
> Many of your points are valid, but I still assert that for us to suddenly > say that making a boot is so wrong, when we've always bought them, is > hipocritical and silly. Sure Mike Bahr makes great boots with MP's > consent, but have you ever asked James to sign one of them? I've seen it > happen and he didn't appear to be a huge fan.
Bahr has DT's management's agreement in releasing his cds. That means the band knows about them and has not given the thumbs down. Further, I'm not really arguing from the perspective that no one should have bootlegs. I only own Mike Bahr bootlegs from DT, and I think I may have a Police live bootleg, (but that may be a legit live album)... and that's out of over 400 cds. I don't care if you guys want boots... go for it. I just don't think you guys can claim to have ANY respect for the band when they ask us not to tape the show and people tape it anyways. Then there comes some of you that argue that "The tapes already exist, so why not get em?" and I have to say that this is a VERY poor argument. Don't get them, because it's JUST AS BAD as taping the show! They don't want these tapes in circulation. The logic behind your argument that they already exist (and this has been pointed out) is flawed in that you can't just drive a stolen car around, just because you weren't the person that stole it. Just because it wasn't YOU in particular that taped the original show, doesn't mean that it's fine and dandy to have the tapes and spread them around.
> Anyway, better that the boot circulates on the jam than the Fix shows > wind up on the KTS catalog.
That's such a naive perspective! How do you think major bootleggers get their sources? ANY WAY THEY CAN! If you think for a MILLISECOND that releasing something over the jam will limit it to the jam, and not get it circulated outside of this forum, then you have a mental disfunction. This is not directed at anyone in particular.
> We were asked not to tape the shows. People, quite predictably, > disregarded this request. The damage has been done.
You don't understand the rationale behind a request like the one they made. They asked not to tape the shows, not so that the 3 people that taped them wouldn't have the material... that takes little toll on the band. The purpose for the request is that they don't want the material readily available. The damage is being done by people that make copies of the tape(s), and justify doing so.
> Why not circulate the new tunes for us ALL to enjoy.
Because the band asked us to. Do you want to convince them not to play any more shows before they release an album? Or do you want to convince them not to play any unreleased material at the shows? This is what you're driving towards.
- Chris
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2367 **************************
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