YTSEJAM Digest 2376
Today's Topics:
1) blah
by "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com>
2) Iron Maiden's downfall/a proposition
by "Ollila Marko" <marko.ollila@tppalv1.metsaserla.fi>
3) Country music
by Big.Swifty@twav.com
4) YEE-HAW
by trevorw@ms.kallback.com
5) FW/mail
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
6) Satch...
by Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2373
by Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
8) Sundry items...
by Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
9) Symphony X
by Loren Caler <llc@sure.net>
10) Ebonics
by Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net>
11) labels
by Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
12) Re: James forgeting the words.
by "Greg R. Lee" <greg@aix.can.ibm.com>
13) Megadeth Stage Stasis
by bmajik@abeln621b.unl.edu (Matt Evans)
14) Re: Get over it
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 05:54:30 +0000
From: "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: blah
Message-ID: <19970321115421.AAA7385@subtlerage.avalon.net>
> Why do people have to have 20 line sigs at the end of their post, or long
> DT quotes for?
this i totally agree with. large sig files do nothing but waste
space.
> There is a newsgroup for "progressive" music, isn't there? Maybe all the
> non-DT related stuff that deals with prog bands should be there instead
> of cluttering up the 'jam.
this i disagree with. the jam isn't strictly about DT, as is
mentioned in the subscription confirmation email you first received
when you joined this list the jam has been an incredible source of
new music for me and many other people. while we do get off track
*quite* alot around here, it's worth sticking around for the
news/reviews/recommendations of some of the other awesome bands that
are out there. if it weren't for this list, i never would've heard
of echolyn, Braindance, Lemur Voice, Spock's Beard, David Arkenstone...
hell, the list goes on and on. (btw, if you're curious about where
to find cds from the above listed bands, mail me)
if you want to talk about DT related stuff, start a new thread. :)
> Isn't it mysterious that the bitches doing all the whining are the
> people who ALREADY HAVE their copies of the "Fix" boots?
nope. i disagree 100% with distributing the fix shows and i don't own
a boot nor have i heard a bit of the new material. see, some of us
actually have self control. :P and i don't buy into the frame of
thought that "hey, i wasn't able to make it to the show". hell, i
live in iowa. we get jack shit for progressive rock around here. :)
> If the petition has taught EastWest nothing about the DT
> fanbase, then they don't DESERVE to keep a band of such immense talent
> and I can assure you that I'll be the first in line to laugh in their
> face when DT goes to another label and makes MILLIONS!!!
the petition hasn't even had a chance to be reviewed by the record
label yet. it was mailed this past tuesday. chill out. i
honestly don't think DT is going to be dropped by the label. they
went gold with I&W and platinum with Awake. they are a money making
band, though not a gold mine like some of the top 40 folks. why
would the label drop them? i just don't see that happening. and
like someone else brought up... it's *only* been 2.5 years since
Awake was released. it hasn't been *that* long.
> Sorry to rant, but I just can't stand selfish, self-righteous assholes
> who are too ashamed to admit that they just want to keep the new stuff
> to themselves.
look, this is the first (?), well, definitely last time i'm going to
say this. 1) keep your name calling to yourself. this isn't grade
school. a little courtesy would be nice, if you wouldn't mind. 2)
the people who have a problem with the fix boots are not selfish, nor
are they self righteous. they simply want to abide by the wishes of
the jam. if you can't handle that, fine. but don't go off and blow
up like a child about it. get your facts straight first.
yikes. this is more than i've posted in this whole year combined i
think...
-Andrew
Andrew Miller - keyboardist/vocalist - subtlerage
http://www.subtlerage.com - subtlerage@subtlerage.com
"first impressions" released. .wav files available
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 97 14:47:31 +0200
From: "Ollila Marko" <marko.ollila@tppalv1.metsaserla.fi>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Iron Maiden's downfall/a proposition
Message-ID: <9703211447.aa31@tppalv1.metsaserla.fi>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids...
This is for you two who are interested in Iron Maiden.
We all know that Iron Maiden's fall from grace started when Bruce Dickinson
quit the band. But how many of you know who were auditioning for the
vocalist's spot in the band? The rumour has it that there were a certain
Andre Matos of Angra, the vocalist God Michael Kiske and Finland's finest
power metal voice, Marco Hietala of Tarot available for the position, but
Steve Harris insisted that the new singer has to be British, so eventually
they chose Blaze Bailey, who couldn't carry a tune if it came to him in a
bag. And besides all the three top candidates are able to participate in the
writing process and can write some awesome metal, whereas Blaze can't. I know
this isn't a new rumour, but it sure got me angry. Fortunately it seems that
Bruce Dickinson's new project will fill the hole that Maiden's demise left.
Bruce's next project is said to be metal in the vein of "Seventh Son of a
Seventh Son", and Adrian Smith is co-writing the material.
Since the definition of prog is an evergreen subject here, I have a
constructive idea. Wouldn't it be fun to do something tangible together,
all of us? I have this idea of a multimedia encyclopaedia of progressive
metal and rock. Each of us could do a short description about his or her
favorite prog artist full with discographies, member listings, short
soundbytes, a picture and everything. Someone could gather all the material
to his/her ftp site and when we'd have enough of material to fill a cd, he/she
could forward it to someone who's able to code a browsing program with all
the trinkets needed for the PC and to someone else who could make a similar
browser for the Mac and with all the trinkets. When the browser and all the
data would be in presentable condition, we'd forward the whole thing for
someone who owns a cd burner. We're what, like 900+ people, and with some
co-operation this thingy could be done pretty promptly. What do you think?
The whole idea could of course be done as a WWW site as well, when the data
wouldn't out-date if anyone had the energy to update it every once in a while
and there would be no need for the browsers. Moreover, the soundbytes could be
longer and with no strict space limitations we'd be able to include video
clips to the thingy. In this latter case I think the final product might
prove helpful not only for the jammers, but to everyone who's in the least bit
interested in progressive music all around the net. The downside of the latter
solution is that the graphics should be a bit coarser because we would have to
take the net's response time aspects in consideration. Just a thought. A man
can dream, right?
_Mape_
Ben Laussade is wearing a skirt. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 1997 08:24:16 CDT
From: Big.Swifty@twav.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Country music
Message-ID: <199703211321.FAA09015@odin.ax.com>
YT>I'm not saying that you can't slam Country, but I decided to stand up and gi
YT>one of my favorite genres, as well the genre with the largest fan-base in
YT>America, its due.
YT>Rain King
Point well taken, but I honestly believe there is no comparison between
Johnny Cash's "Live at Folsom Prison" and a Billy Ray Cyrus album.
Johnny Cash was (and still is) an emotive songwriter, while Cyrus'
albums fall into that category known as "New Country" - there are good
players on his albums, but there is absolutely nothing that can be
considered original or groundbreaking on there. It's pop, plain and
simple, and pop music wore thin on me when I was 13 or 14. They are
examples of different music created in different eras for different
reasons, and any comparison between the two genres is going to be
unfairly biased in favor of one or the other. I'm not saying that I am a
big Johnny Cash fan, but I am of the opinion that he will be remembered
for a long time after he is gone, and I have respect for him, as well as
the "outlaws," as Willie, Waylon, and Merle were dubbed way back when.
In summation, I'm not a big country fan, but having lived my entire life
within the confines of the state of Alabama, I've been exposed to a
whole hell of a lot of it. And I always try to give respect where it is
due, be it DT, Philip Aaberg, or David Allan Coe.
The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 05:44:21 -0800
From: trevorw@ms.kallback.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: YEE-HAW
Message-ID: <199703211344.FAA00186@ms.kallback.com>
Country on the Jam.
I think Country is the furthest away from prog one can get.
Doesn't stop me from listenin' to Restless Heart, though.
BTW, I'm not wearing any pants.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:07:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: FW/mail
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970321085733.18939B-100000@bdmserver>
ben wrote:
>But, take...um...Fates Warning for instance. Just counting
>their latest two albums, Parallels and Inside Out. We all refer to them as
>prog...even though both of those albums sound (IMO) very similar
>stylistically.
What are you talking about? Parallels is a lot different than Inside Out.
I love Parallels, Inisde Out is good though...
Someone wrote about their lousy mail program.
I assume you mean just plain old mail? ie you type at the command line
"mail ytsejam@ax.com"? If it is a UNIX system in the middle of your
message you can type "~v" on a separate line in your message and your
message will be thrown into an editor probably vi.
Most unix systems have an email package called "pine", type pine and see
if you have it or not. It is a great ascii mail program...
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com |
|=======================================================================|
| "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater |
| "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:34:28 -0800
From: Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Satch...
Message-ID: <199703211433.AA28420@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello,
Marcelo wrote:
> I would have hated Satch's show here,
>'cause although the sound and the music was great, his performance
>sucked a lot (on second thought, which performance??? :) ).
Whoa! I have never, ever heard someone say that Joe was bad live, so this
got me curious. I've seen him twice, and at both shows he was the most
animated guitarist I have seen onstage. Especially at the G3 show at the
Beacon. He even said that he had to take a minute to calm down so he
could play Always with Me... I am saying this not to flame, but to
inquire as to what made the performance suck? I would send this
privately, but I think I'm not the only one who'll be curious about an
answer to this one.
Actually, now that I think about it, Rick Nielsen is more
animated onstage, but I doubt many people in here would take me seriously
if I said Cheap Trick is a great live band.:)
Oh, and DT and Megadeth both suck live. Primus sucks too.:)
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:01:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2373
Message-ID: <199703211501.HAA09699@odin.ax.com>
>
> > Now if you all started to use Ebonics.........:P.
>
> Doesn't anybody call it "jive" anymore? Ebonics sounds like a major you
> take in college.
>
At the rate this country is going, that just might happen.....
-Al
DT content: Funny things that have happened....
1) Someone tell the story about how Portnoy sang the first
lines of Killing Hand (?) during one of the Fix shows
cuz JLB was takin' a whizz or something...
At the Birch, I remember James asking Mike if he wanted
to do it again..... :P
-- @#%^$#%^#$&#%%$&#$%^#$%^#$%&#$%^&#$%^&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%^&%$ | | | See me gone and persevere.... | | Condescending when you label me Judas.... | | | #$%^#%&#%^$*%&*^&*%&(%^&(%^&*(%^&*(*%^&*$^&*#^%&#^*$%^&*#%^&*#$%& | Al Balkiewicz SEND MAIL HERE -->balkiewi @ njmsa.umdnj.edu | | OR HERE! --->DA_PROF @ BIGFOOT.COM | %@#$^@#$^@^%%$&#$&^*$%&*$&*$%^$&$%^&$%^*$^%&*$%^&*$%^*$%^&%$^&%$%------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:06:38 -0800 From: Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Sundry items... Message-ID: <199703211506.AB00622@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hiya folks! I'm posting too often these days, and I'm sure Jeremy Kube agrees.:) Someone else wrote:
>True. I think that at least I percieve Megadeth as more boring since >they play bigger venues, where it takes some moving around to make it >interesting. I saw them in a big ice hockey stadium and still they >refused to move.
On one note: try playing thrash metal in hundred degree heat while jumping around and grunting and screaming. I'll give you 20 minutes before you dehydrate and collapse. I loved the 'Deth show I saw two years ago, but it was in a small theater, in the middle of July in New York, in 110 degree heat, and I dry heaved from dehydration on the stage security barrier. I almost got thrown out cause security was afraid I was going to throw up on them.:) I was just a participant in the crowd, imagine how Mr. Mustaine and Co. felt. But I'll grant you that shows at arenas are not that great if the band doesn't make some use of all that space. Van Halen was (IMHO) bad on their last tour for that reason, but the lack of movement was due to injuries. Rush and Queensryche are (IMHO) the best arena bands because they don't just perform, they put on a show. But hopefully you already are familiar with those shows...:)
>For those of you whom have not slammed it yet, check out Joe Satriani's >self-titled album. A brilliant display of both undeniable technique AND >emotion.
Heck, check out any Joe album except Not of this Earth. Buy that one after you're comfortable with his stuff, it may throw you for a loop. His new album is his best, but Surfing with the Alien is the bible of great guitar.
> I went to the Toad's Place and Strand shows and I could of >walked in with nuclear warfare and took out the joints.
Please, bring it to the Birch Hill next time. That way you can blow that dump up and DT will HAVE to play someplace nicer.
>Doesn't anybody call it "jive" anymore? Ebonics sounds like a major you >take in college.
I hear they're revising scenes in Airplane to include ebonics instead of jive.:)
>I donno whut da problum iz but Andrew lykes to poke funn att da weay I >spel stuff. I jus tink he tinks I em dum or sumting. Meybe I shuld use >da spell check on my computah befo I goe and get flammed fo' righting >someting on da jam.
Hey, I think we've found the Jam's first Ebonics major!:) I love ya Jeremy, really I do. I know it's all for fun, all I'm doing is helping advance the literacy level in the US.:) I'm so noble. But to the guy who mentioned his schools e-mail system being an outdated piece of shit: I completely sympathize. My company uses the old IBM OfficeVision system for intracompany e-mail and IT BLOWS. So out of respect for that individual, I will refrain from playing Mr. Chips...:)
Stodgily yours, Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:39:39 -0800 (PST) From: Loren Caler <llc@sure.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Symphony X Message-ID: <199703211539.HAA27737@sure.net>
Someone a few Jams ago, wrote about a band named Symphony X. I looked all over my wonderful (sarcasm there) town of Burbank, CA, and couldn't find one goddam album of theirs. Can that person please tell me where they found their stuff, or if I can special order it? Thanx.
I-Van
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:49:29 -0500 From: Jaime Kimpton <jkimpton@nfx.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Ebonics Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970321154929.00678e7c@nfx.net>
<< Doesn't anybody call it "jive" anymore? Ebonics sounds like a major you take in college. >>
The scary part is that I think that's exactly what they're trying to do with it.
Jaime the Dragon -- jkimpton@nfx.net
"This has been a test of the Emergency Savior System. If it had been a real emergency, your chosen deity would have contacted you immediately. This is only a test. --
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:48:23 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: labels Message-ID: <199703211552.KAA06961@umbc8.umbc.edu>
> Ben Laussade isn't wearing any pants.
I'm wearing pants, but no underwear today. :)
> > > The door-guards have been instructed to form everyone into a > > > single admission line and pad everyone down heavily and search all > > > handbags. Anyone discovered with recording equipment of any sort, before > > > or during the show, will have these items confiscated. > > Don't know about that. I went to the Toad's Place and Strand shows and I could of > walked in with nuclear warfare and took out the joints. I could just see the the > expressions on lots of the Jammer's faces. ("Aw Shit! I knew I should have brought the > camcorder!") All the door-guards did was take my ticket voucher.
That's how it was at Birch Hell, too. They made a big stink about it being 18 and over and not all ages, but then they didn't even check ID's. My poor gf <she's 5'4"> had the fattest, tallest bouncer you can imagine standing right in front of her all night. Not only that, but he was standing on a fucking milk crate! Bouncers are the lowest form of life on the planet.
> Okay, I'll post this again to shed some light on why bands have been/are > called progressive. Originally the term "progressive rock" was used to > discribe the bands that started blending stuff like classical/reggae etc > into rock, and not sticking to the normal rock format ie: > verse/chorus/verse/chorus/solo/chorus, but tried to take rock a step > forward, ie: progressing.
Yes. Many people forget one of the premier classic rock trios: The Police.
> Bands that were in this original wave were bads like Yes, King Crimson > etc. Now the music has pretty much stayed the same with little variations > (krautrock, canterbury, psych, progressive metal etc...), so IMO the term > progressive that are used on bands nowadays is a label, just like grunge or > neoclassic,
Labels are a funny thing. I don't understand how Grunge is so different from other stuff that was coming out at the same time. It more describes the clothes worn by the people that listen to it than the music itself. Sure, Pearl Jam wears flennel, but as someone pointed out a few weeks ago, Trixter was wearing flannel back when people though "pearl jam" was something that happened to a constipated oyster.
Another thing is that people who don't know a thing about music make up these labels. The whole "neoclassical" genre would be more aptly titled "neo-baroque" as I'm sure many of you know. The magazine writers who review the records say oh, sounds like classical, and call it neo-classical, not even relizing <or caring> that there is already a genre called neo-classical, and it sure ain't Yngwie Malmsteen.
> the progression was made in the late 60's/early 70's, nowadays > you have bands that play it like it sounded in the 70's (ie: Yes, Spock's > Beard etc) and bands that have mixed in other influences too, like metal, > etc etc....
Yeah. The definition of progressive music now seems to be "bands that were influenced by progressive bands" and it goes from there.
Everyone in MD used to thing that alternative music <before it was called that> was called progressive music, because that's what WHFS, the local alternative, "free-form" <now turned corporate--big surprise>, radio station called it. Up until a year ago, I had a gf that swore up and down to me that the music to which I listened was not progressive--she said it was called "sreaming and noise"--because she listened to this radio station. I broke up with her, though. :)
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:03:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Greg R. Lee" <greg@aix.can.ibm.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: James forgeting the words. Message-ID: <199703211603.LAA02510@slash.toraix.can.ibm.com>
J.Keifling wrote: "I only saw them once; and when they played "FORTUNE in LIES", JLB forgot the words and sung the verses out of sequence. (Does he usually do this?)"
I would imagine not usually...however, last time DT was in Toronto (when the back pain jam was invented), James screwed up in TOWHTSTS and asked the audience if anyone noticed...99.9 percent did not know what the hell that song was!
Greg, Toronto.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:03:25 -0600 From: bmajik@abeln621b.unl.edu (Matt Evans) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Megadeth Stage Stasis Message-ID: <199703211603.KAA15239@goliath.unl.edu>
Well, I've been to about 4 megadeth shows, and if anything, they move around *alot*. Obviously Menza isn't running around the stage but ellefson and friedman switch places constantly, usually several times during a song. People are saying they've never seen megadeth live, and then they go on to say how megadeth doesn't move around on stage ??
Hrmm :)
At anyrate, Friedman will come right out to the edge of the stage and look right down into your eyes as he plasys some of his solos. Its pretty cool.
Ever 'deth show i've been to i was in the pit/front row the whole time, and from there it looks like the move around alot. To say that they are a high-energy band would be an understatement :) I've seen my share of bands, Van Halen, Metallica, Megadeth, Danzig, Suicidal Tendancies, STP, Korn, Fear Factory, Flotsam & Jetsam. Thats all i can think of currently :)
Out of those bands, I'll point out that lots of them were openers for otherbands, and i would never pay any sort of money to see them :)
Korn for example, is absolutely terrible. It sickens me to see that floppy haired fuckwit abusing a universe 7 string. What kind of asshole moron runs boogie rectifers with stomp boxes going inline with the guitar ? Grrrr...
Anyway, out of those bands, obviously metallica has one of the best live performances of anyone, as far as "putting on the show" goes. They make lots of mistakes though :) Megadeth i have seen more than any of the others, and they consistantly put on a flawless and active performance,and are very intouch with what the fans want i think.
Oh well. Any more on when the new DT is coming out ? Im looking forward to more stuff :) The new megadeth is due out in May i believe :)
Cheers, Matt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 11:44:13 -0500 From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Get over it Message-ID: <199703211641.LAA21808@uhura.ici.net>
>I'm getting off track here - The fact is that bootlegging is INEVITABLE >(yes people, **INEVITABLE**) and CANNOT BE STOPPED. Therefore, there is no >damn point of getting blue in the face, bitching at people, and getting >angry. There are no winners here, and all this arguing is doing is pulling >this list apart.
The problem is that people like you are misinterpreting to point of the thread. To reiterate: NOONE in this thread is debating the relative merits of bootlegging in general. Some people have posted about it (you included), but that's NOT what this thread is about. The debate is about whether it is kosher or not to go against the band's wishes by booting the Fix shows.
I fail to see how anyone can be against this thread continuing. For the most part, the discussions have been civil, with people expressing opinions in at least a semi-coherent manner. :) And it IS DTC, so that's a BIG plus for the list. :)
The list is not being pulled apart. Anyone who thinks the list is going to disintegrate because people on here have differing opinions on certain subjects is confused about the purpose of the list. Why would anyone WANT to read a list where everyone agreed with everyone else. To me, that'd be pretty damn boring.
>Now, please, follow my lead, and everyone get the hell off their soapboxes.
No, please don't. In fact, I'd like everyone who *isn't* on a soapbox to get on one. Anyone who doesn't have one can borrow mine. :)
----- On the other hand...... -----
>Isn't it mysterious that the bitches doing all the whining are the >people who ALREADY HAVE their copies of the "Fix" boots? Now they want >to preach to others the sins of duplicating so as to "respect the >band." I'm sure you're all burning your copies in respect as you type, >right??!! Why don't you just come right out and say "I got mine, so >fuck everyone else!!" That's exactly what you mean when you write such >self-righteous shit!
Maybe I should rescind that last comment....
I apologize to anyone that this reply may offend, but....
Listen fucknut, I consider myself (along with Chris Ptacek) to be among the most vocal supporters of the position you are railing against, and NEITHER of us has a copy of these shows. Yes, I got to see one of them in person, but I did not tape the show, and WILL not get a tape of the shows.
So before you go lumping everyone together in a pointless, self-deluding rant, I suggest you actually READ the posts you are replying to. Perhaps if you did that you would be able to at least SOUND like you have 10 or 12 functioning brain cells (even if, as I suspect, you don't).
To paraphrase another post I saw recently, it's morons like you that make me ashamed to admit I subscribe to this list.
-----
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2376 **************************
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