YTSEJAM Digest 2384
Today's Topics:
1) This "What is prog" thing...
by eckie@asu.edu
2) www.wilma.com
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
3) IRC / King Diamond Question
by Mamalookabubuday <skooc@earthlink.net>
4) My Slant On "PROGRESSIVE" Rock
by "James R. McKenzie" <JRMCKENZIE@PDN.NET>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2383
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
6) Sympho? Prog?
by Peter Geerts <peter@wina.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
7) Tape thingys... (NDTC)
by Mika Numminen <aarre.n@swipnet.se>
8) To all German Jammers: HELP NEEDED
by "Michal Achmatowicz" <MICHALA@ichf.edu.pl>
9) Amsterdam Gig
by Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
10) Ozrics, Wacky, Superior, etc. (NDTC)
by "Mike Patrick" <mepatrick@iquest.net>
11) The ONLY boots that hurt DT
by Cliff_Totten@discovery.com
12) URL I Promised (NDTC)
by "Mike Patrick" <mepatrick@iquest.net>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2373
by Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
14) NEW Megadeth album (*Minimal DTC)
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
15) This is...Jeopardy?
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
16) Re: huh?
by Paul Goracke <pgor@netcom.com>
17) Space Needle
by "John R. Kotzian" <koggie@cyberspace.org>
18) New CDs!!!!!
by rwarren@memphisonline.com
19) Quoth the scruffy nerf herders from Tatooine
by Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:42:58 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: Ytsejam Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: This "What is prog" thing...
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970323233938.4277B-100000@general5.asu.edu>
Better questions:
What is the meaning of prog?
Why was prog put on this earth?
Where is prog going?
Did Porntoy have facial hair all his life, even through elementary school?
When will us west coast jammers ever see Dream Theater live?
~Eckie the introspective
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:06:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: www.wilma.com
Message-ID: <199703240706.AA17398@crl4.crl.com>
I tried to get to the .ra stream from that site, but I never could.
Does that page (with the radio live streaming) have frames or
something? My browser flipped back to their top page whenever I
tried to get to the radio pages.
I had to chuckle when I saw those definitions of prog rock reposted.
I'm almost certain I know the second person in the chain, Terrell
Miller, from high school. Yep, he was the type I'd expect to be into
prog. :)
-- +-- I never bared my emotions ---+ Dream Theater +- Paul W. Cashman ---+ | My passion always strong | "Scarred" | vanyel@crl.com | | I never lost my devotion <-+-> CD: Awake | pellaz@dreamt.org | + But somewhere fate went wrong -+----- http://www.crl.com/~vanyel ----+------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:27:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mamalookabubuday <skooc@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: IRC / King Diamond Question Message-ID: <199703240727.XAA18195@spain.it.earthlink.net>
>So, basically here's the deal. I have gone to a zero tolerance method on >the server. The new way is called one strike your out. If anyone complains >about you to me, you will be banned from the server for good.
Alright! Ben should have the server down to himself and JimmyC in no time ;) Seriously though, I imagine it'll be down to zero in less than a week. Every person has an opinion, and for every opinion there's another who doesn't agree with it. So therefore everyone who types anything will piss off someone else. Maybe before someone gets banned there should be some way to check to make sure the complaint is valid. After all there are a lot of people who live to make life miserable for others.
>I will not deal with people making death threats, ganging up on people, >pissing people off, etc on my server, its not what the server was made for,
WOW! death threats, even Sledge wasn't *that* insane. Boy, you leave a place for a few months and the whole thing goes to hell. Jeez, it's just a bunch of words on a computer screen, no reason to go threatening people's lives.
Now, on to more *uplifting* stuff. I'm so glad to see King Diamond get talked about here. I saw him for the "Them" tour in 1988 and he was GREAT! His latest, The Graveyard, in my opinion is his best album since Them. I hope that the tour comes to America since I've never seen Mercyful Fate in concert and would really like to. Question for you KD/MF fans: Do you think that KD *really* is a Satanist or is it just a gimmick to sell records? *************************************************************************** Kill Kill Kill..... the White Man; Kill him until he is dead. Kill Kill Kill the White Man. Thank you.
Howard Stern as Mamalookaboobooday Detroit's first black traffic reporter ***************************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:21:42 -0500 From: "James R. McKenzie" <JRMCKENZIE@PDN.NET> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: My Slant On "PROGRESSIVE" Rock Message-ID: <33363996.5D09@PDN.NET>
Here's My No Cents Worth,
Prgressive Rock Is The Stuff That Starts A Groups Of Smaller Trends Either By Doing Something First, Better Or So Very Differently That It Can Only Be Taken In It's Raw Form By A Very Scant Few Who Really Do Want It That Way. The Trends It Will Spin Off Are Prone/Apt To Take The Piece[s] Each "Trendhopper" Likes And That Person Or Group Will Then Make A More Palettable(SP) Flavor Of It With Fewer Inovations And Many More Familiarities Within That Make The Masses Happier With It. In What We Call "CLASSICAL" Music BACH Was An Innovator, His Work Was Meant To Push The Technical Edge As Far AS Possible While Still Remaining Musical In Nature. Groups Like Emerson. Lake & Palmer, Dream Theater, King Crimson And Yes Have Always Been Around In Some Form Or Another. They Force The Artism Issue On Purpose NBut With Out Doing It Overtly. These Bands Always Get "Barrowed From" Heavily To Some Extent Because What They Do Is So Very Unique. In Jazz The Late-Great Miles Davis Was THE Innovator Of His Time. To This Day Absolutely No One Can Touch What He Did That Way He Did It. He Was Born Into An Affluent Existance So It Wasn't From A Sense Of Destitution But It Was From A Sense Of Pure Art And YES Fighting His Own Personal Demons. These Things Made For A Toutrured Existance But Also A Great And Pure Art. Prgressive Bands Attempt This Same Thing. In Some Cases One Member Writes All Of The Material Or Most Of The Material While In Other Groups It's A Hodge-Podge Where Everyone Throws In This And That And The Members Vote On What Stays And What Goes In A Kind Of Crucible Where The Final Product After The Smoke Clears Is Their Latest Collaborative Attempt At "ART". To The Listener The Art Might Be In The Melody Or The Lyrics Or Even In The Drumming But The Band Commits Itself To The Final Product And Then Submits It's Final Effort To The Listening Public And Hopes That Enough People Like It To Make The Effort Worthy Of Praise And Yes Maybe Even A Way To Earn A Living Without Homogenizing The Product To The Point Where It Gets Lost. Create Your Art And Then Place It On Public Display For Everyone To Gauk At. That's A Bold Thing To Do Anyway. These People Do This As Do All Artisians And In So Doing Expose A Part Of Their Souls For Public Approval Or Ridiucle.
OK, I Went A Bit Far With This But It Just Seems In This Journal People Are Arguing Too Much On Which Music Is Real And Not Real. Music Is A Series Of Sounds That Moves The Souls Of Men (And Women) And Either Expresses A Feeling Of Kinderedness Or At Least Familiar Understanding. Even If The feeling Is Rage It Must Be A Kindered Rage. There Is No Good Or Bad MUsic, There Maybe Music Less Artistic In Nature (Milli-Vanilli For Instance) But If The Listener Likes It, To That Person It's Art.
Obviously I Could Ramble On For Ever But I'll Stop Now.
T H A N K Y O U
JAMES R. McKENZIE
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 03:23:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2383 Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.970324032131.39794A-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote: > Actually, I believe the correct answer/question would be: > "What is what is Prog?" > -Clark > I knew someone would jump on that.:)
Richie
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:25:08 +0100 (MET) From: Peter Geerts <peter@wina.student.kuleuven.ac.be> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Sympho? Prog? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970324101944.12275D-100000@www.wina.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
Some time ago, KrogX3 wrote on the subject of 'Prog vs. Sympho':
> OK, I was thinking that prog deals more with alot of experimented > sounds, time changes, and very involved themes. Symphonic I was > refering to as something that will use some of those experimental > sounds (I count PF's early stuff with Syd as Prog), but symphonic > sets more of a scene. Lots of thick textures and ambiance. Not a > whole lot, if any time changes. Just basically I guess what you > could still call "prog lite." Pink Floyd and Marillion are what I'd > condider a "Genuine Draft". :) > > I dunno. It's hard to define this stuff ain't it?
Yeah, i see your point. Something else to think of: the term 'sympho' originally comes from the fact that those bands first experimented with classical music and/or themes. Thus, symphonic, if you like. Also, complex musical structures could be considered 'classic'. If I remember weel, there used to be a band (in the sixties) who had a song based completely on a certain concerto by Bach. Sympho avant la lettre...
Peter
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:05:01 From: Mika Numminen <aarre.n@swipnet.se> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Tape thingys... (NDTC) Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19970324110501.191758c4@bamse.swip.net>
Just wondering if anyone has some nifty prog, or some Word or Excel stuff, which is just to be filed out to make new paper-inserts (or waht-the-f**k they're called), mail me privately at: aarre.n@swipnet.se
Take care!
- Mika Numminen - aarre.n@swipnet.se - http://www.hgs.se/~te95mne -
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:31:54 CET-1CEST From: "Michal Achmatowicz" <MICHALA@ichf.edu.pl> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: To all German Jammers: HELP NEEDED Message-ID: <7897BA3A52@alfa.ichf.edu.pl>
Hi! I am from Poland and I am looking for tickets for DT show at Nuernberg on 10th April for me and for 2 friends of mine. If anyone can help me buying those tickets or just suggest what to do, please e-mail me:
michala@alfa.ichf.edu.pl Thanks in advance. Michal Achmatowicz
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:07:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk> To: YtseJam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Amsterdam Gig Message-ID: <Marcel-1.08-0324130742-0b0rZWN@mor.apsoft.co.uk>
Thanks to Rudy (U-daZ), I now have a ticket for the Amsterdam concert.
Two questions:
1) Is anyone else from the UK making the trip to Holland? If someone else is going, it would be nice to share the car/train/ferry journey. If not, I'll probably just fly.
2) Is anyone else from outside Holland going to Amsterdam? I'm taking a whole week off work, so I'd like to spend a few days in Amsterdam after the concert. All the Dutch people will probably be going to their own homes after the concert, so if anyone wants to split the cost of a hotel room or whatever . . .
Graham
-- Graham Borland Email : gborland@apsoft.co.uk WWW : http://www.apsoft.co.uk Alternative Publishing Ltd Tel : 0141 418 0881 30 Clyde Place, Glasgow G5 8AQ Fax : 0141 418 0889
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:03:20 -0000 From: "Mike Patrick" <mepatrick@iquest.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Ozrics, Wacky, Superior, etc. (NDTC) Message-ID: <199703241412.GAA06757@odin.ax.com>
I've scoured the Net for Ozric sound clips all to no avail, but last night I went to www.cdnow.com and lo and behold, they had Real Audio clips from two of their albums. So if you're like me and you've been looking for these for a while, there they are. I was so impressed, I ordered two (Arboresence (sp?) and Strangeitude) right away. Think Tangerine Dream meets Rush.
Also, I too recommend the URL that someone posted here over the weekend (SORRY - don't have it on me) of the demo clips that (and I don't remember the guy's name) were posted there. AWESOME. The guy's a great guitar player, and the things he can do with a drum machine are amazing. Good keyboard textures as well. I'll post the URL again once I find the thing...
Also, I've found every Superior clip there is to find, listened to them a hundred times, and I just can't bring myself to order it. I don't know what it is. Something just doesn't grab me. This is an album I'd have to listen through the whole way before a plopped down money on it. Sorry, Bernd (but the guitar playing is exceptional.) Ditto Ivanhoe. Jeez, does their singer EVER let up? Man, it's just one sonic vocal barrage after another. I think listening to bats screeching would be more pleasant. Someone tell those German prog singers to tone it down a bit.
Mike Patrick InfoTech Consulting, Inc. mepatrick@iquest.net
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:15:28 -0400 From: Cliff_Totten@discovery.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The ONLY boots that hurt DT Message-ID: <85256464.004E25A9.00@smtp1.discovery.com>
Cliff Totten 03/24/97 09:15 AM
The ONLY bootlegs that I would NEVER buy:
1.) Any "duped" recording of WDADU, I&W, Awake, LATM or ACOS. (or live in Tokyo video) 2.) Any recording of the albums above made by some third party "pirate" manufacturer. 3.) I do not make these recordings for any of my friends ( they can hear them but they must BUY them form a store ) 4.) I would never..... EVER... deal with any recording that would steal potential money away (and degrade the official album sales) from the band that I love so much.
I am very conscious of this stuff when I buy boots!!!
I hear JP hates all DT bootlegs..........and MP loves and collects them!!!!!
I'm willing to bet that JP has some old Rush boots in his CD\ Video shelf!!
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:14:39 -0000 From: "Mike Patrick" <mepatrick@iquest.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: URL I Promised (NDTC) Message-ID: <199703241416.GAA06780@odin.ax.com>
Here it is. His name is Brian Wherry, and you haven't heard the last of him. What a promising talent. Wow. Spend an hour or two at his site. You won't be sorry.
http://www.channel1.com/users/wacky/
Mike Patrick InfoTech Consulting, Inc. mepatrick@iquest.net
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:03:18 -0500 (EST) From: Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2373 Message-ID: <199703241502.HAA07160@odin.ax.com>
> > My favorite stories are the ones about James getting pissed at the > dude during the Surrounded song and the stories I've heard about > Johnny P. falling off of the stage. I think I read an article > somewhere about that, too. heheh... >
James got pissed at some stage diver who bumped into him during AFiL in New York during the I&W tour, and basically pushed him right off the stage, much to the pleasure of a lot of fans there.....and the cool thing is, he came right back in with "you rode the reeeeeeeed....." Now's that's professionalism! :P
-- @#%^$#%^#$&#%%$&#$%^#$%^#$%&#$%^&#$%^&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%&#$%^&%$ | | | See me gone and persevere.... | | Condescending when you label me Judas.... | | | #$%^#%&#%^$*%&*^&*%&(%^&(%^&*(%^&*(*%^&*$^&*#^%&#^*$%^&*#%^&*#$%& | Al Balkiewicz SEND MAIL HERE -->balkiewi @ njmsa.umdnj.edu | | OR HERE! --->DA_PROF @ BIGFOOT.COM | %@#$^@#$^@^%%$&#$&^*$%&*$&*$%^$&$%^&$%^*$^%&*$%^&*$%^*$%^&%$^&%$%
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:39:47 -0500 (EST) From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: NEW Megadeth album (*Minimal DTC) Message-ID: <v01520d00af5c09f9ce9a@[207.90.116.144]>
New Megadeth:
I just heard that it may be out by June, with a single in May. The album is not "Needles and Pins" (or "Pins and Needles" whatever it was), but it is tentatively entitled Cryptic Writing.
As for DT and MD touring: I think it would be a great show. DT fans might see the brilliance in MD, and MD fans might see the brilliance in DT. Of course, there's always the hard headed fans (I'd say MD would have more, just because there are more MD fans), but for the most part, I'm sure there'd be many new DT fans if such a tour happened.
But, I guess the first priority would be for E/W to get DT in the STUDIO!!!!
Later, Dan
---+ +--- Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm@erinet.com / s1133627@cedarville.edu "Home of the Galactic Cowboys Page" http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm ---+ +---
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:04:33 -0500 From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: This is...Jeopardy? Message-ID: <199703241602.LAA13908@uhura.ici.net>
>A possible Jepordy question: > >Q: "A question which results in over 1,000 answers, resulting in endless >opinion-strutting and enough Ytsejams to choke a small animal." > >A:"What is Prog?"
Ummm....not to be anal or anything, but strictly speaking, wouldn't the question have to be:
A: "What is 'What is Prog'?"
:)
-----
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ E-mail: psull@ici.net IRC: DDictator WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html NP: Dream Theater - "When Dream And Day Unite" ______________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:09:49 -0800 From: Paul Goracke <pgor@netcom.com> To: cmustard@vonl.com (Mark Lampert) Cc: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: huh? Message-ID: <l03020908af5c569cc0e8@DialupEudora>
Colonel Mustard wrote:
> I think of Genesis as being more along the lines of contemporary... When I > think of the word progressive as related to music, I consider that to mean > the band is highly skilled in complex and interesting music, odd meter (no > not always, but more than a little), you know what I mean. DT, Rush, Fates, > Superior, yes. Genesis, not in my eyes at least.... just a thought.
You, and anyone else who feels the same, should check out their earlier stuff, pre-1977 or so. Many people would recommend "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" as their pinnacle, but my personal fave is "Selling England By The Pound." Darn near every early Genesis album easily meets the qualifications you've mentioned.
It's nowhere near as poppy as current Genesis, which is what I also grew up knowing them for. They are really two _completely_ different bands as far as sound.
pg
----------------------------+---------------------------------- Paul Goracke | "To do is to be" - Aristotle pgor@netcom.com | "To be is to do" - Plato | "Do be do be do" - Sinatra ----------------------------+----------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:16:40 -0500 (EST) From: "John R. Kotzian" <koggie@cyberspace.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com (Explore The Boundries) Subject: Space Needle Message-ID: <199703241616.LAA13155@grex.cyberspace.org>
Hey,
About Space Needle's "Moray Eels Eat The Space Needle", I'd have to say, IMHO, that it's not that interesting.
The Roger Dean jacket art is cool and their are a couple of good songs, but over all it's boring.
I wouldn't even call it prog, that is to say, if I had a definition of what prog was. ;)
-John
-- _________________ _ ____________________ (^) (^) <-o->koggie@cyberspace.org is John R. Kotzian<-o-> (v)________________ __ __ ___________________(v)
Album of the day: Charlie Haden and Pat Metheny "Missouri Sky" Album of the Week: Magellan "Test of Wills" Album of the Month: Queensryche "Hear in the Now Frontier"
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:44:55 -0600 From: rwarren@memphisonline.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: New CDs!!!!! Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970324114338.006c26a8@memphisonline.com>
Boy, last week was a great week for me and new CDs!!!!
First, a week ago Saturday I received Ivanhoe's Visions and Reality and Symbols of Time from Wildside Imports. I really like both of the CDs alot. A lot of people on the jam have called them DT clones but I don't really think so. Definitely the same genre of music though. I could do without the singer. He irritates me for some reason. One quick note about Wildside Imports. When I ordered the CDs (phone order with credit card) they said they were in stock and I would receive them in 1-2 weeks. It took 1.5 weeks. They seem to be trustworthy.
This last Saturday I received my copy of Shadow Gallery's first CD from Magna Carta. It took 4-5 weeks but I did order through the mail with a check. I like this CD alot, as much as Carved in Stone. The drums (a drum machine I believe) are a little annoying but everything else is great.
Also so on Saturday I received the Dream Theater boots Milan '93 and Uncovered from, believe it or not .........Tunnel Records!!!!!! I placed a phone order with credit card with them and they said it would take 4 weeks. It took damn near 4 weeks, but at least I was warned. The CDs are awesome!! Milan '93 (same boot as Lost in the Sky) is one of the best boots, IMO. The Uncovered CD is cool to. They definitely did some remixing for ACoS and the DTIFC CD. I believe the performances are the same but they did improve the levels of various instruments. On Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding JP's first guitar entrance rips your head off and James' vocals are barely audible until the end of the song. This was definitely one of James' better performances. I did have trouble getting responses from Tunnel but I received the CDs on time so I am not complaining. I believe the key to ordering anything mail order is to verify the item is in stock.
Enough from me.
________________________________________________________________________ Richard Warren rwarren@memphisonline
________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:08:30 -0600 From: Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com> To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Quoth the scruffy nerf herders from Tatooine Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=GE%l=AMERIDATA/ADNC/001A8888@msb01ncadctmsge.ameridata.com>
Quote: i found that las bit (phil collins) kinda funny...since isnt genesis considered prog?
Genesis WAS originally prog. It basically died after the Duke CD. There were prog bits & pieces on later CD's. But basically PC sold out to pop, and the others went there own ways after that, occasionally rejoining to grind out some pseudo-prog/slop.
Eubonics: wasn't that some alternative genetic explanation of evolution developed by some political science majors who thought their race was better than everyone else's? No I guess that was eugenics...Never mind.
-Randall
email: Randall.Braun@gecits.ge.com **I'm looking California and feeling Minnesota "Outshined" Soundgarden**
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2384 **************************
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