YTSEJAM Digest 2393
Today's Topics:
1) thoughts
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
2) Grunge
by "Kasper, Robert" <RKasper@aus.etn.com>
3) Lemur Voice
by svjohnson@amoco.com
4) Re: Jon Finn Group/Stimulating Dream/Wacky!!!!!!
by "Mike Patrick" <mepatrick@iquest.net>
5) No top 10 lists !!!!!
by bwrights@dnaent.com (Bill Wrightson)
6) Classify THIS
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
7) Top Ten
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2392
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
9) New QR / Kamelot / Other Bands
by "Robin L. Campbell" <campbell@str.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2392
by Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
11) SellOut?!?
by YtseJim <LUTZ@uhavax.hartford.edu>
12) TOP x lists
by akyuz@ltp.dmx.epfl.ch
13) apocalyptic eschatlogy
by Matthew Sirois <ms014e@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
14) Re: Top Ten
by Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu>
15) Re: Grunge
by Pete Dziadzka <petedz@interaccess.com>
16) (no subject)
by Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:39:00 -0500 (EST)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
To: "Ytse Fuckin' Jam" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: thoughts
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9703271121.A22495-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
> From: cmustard@vonl.com (Mark Lampert)
> Subject: There's no such thing
>
> There is no such thing as a "decent" gunge song... that's why it's called
> grunge... because it sucks and should be destroyed... I wouldn't call the
I don't know why *this* of all things consistently bugs me, but it does.
I don't know why I insist on responding every time some half wit like
Mark here decides to chime in with an enlightened viewpoint such as this
one, but I do.
Mark, your ignorance isn't even diluted by good humor. Thoughts like
these have no place being expressed on this list. This is a list
composed of people who appreciate music, not of people who don't. Please
bear in mind that there are people on this list who are not like you, and
who have different influences, likes, and dislikes. "Ought to be
destroyed"? Do you support book burnings too?
You're allowed to dislike whatever you want. This is a free society.
But you're not allowed to be an asshole about it. We're not *that* free. :)
</rant> Sorry about that. Shit like that just pisses me off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster
cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:54:00 -0500
From: "Kasper, Robert" <RKasper@aus.etn.com>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Grunge
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_ATTMAIL%p=ETNWHQ%l=EXCHANGE-970327165400Z-5224@sentry.bev.etn.com>
Mark Lampert wrote:
>> I trust bands like Queensryche, Megadeth, Fates and DT to write
>> good material because they have continually done it in the past and still
>> hold those talents. yeah, the material on HitNF is much different, but it's
>> certainly not grunge.... that's a fact, not an opinion by the way... grunge
>> can be defined as CRAP. This is not crap.
If, as you say, it is a "fact" that grunge can be defined as crap - I
ask where
you derived that "fact." What evidence supports it as "fact?" Did you
even
think at all about what you were writing, or did it just flow from some
sort of
brainstorming frenzy? Sheesh! Your statement of "fact" sounds entirely
like "opinion." It also serves to announce your close-mindedness. All
grunge
rock is not "crap". There are a lot of amazing talents in grunge rock,
and you
shouldn't lump it all together and label it "crap." That kind of
mentality is
infantile...
Regarding the new material on HitNF, it doesn't really surprise me to
hear
grunge influences on the album. QR is a Seattle-based band, after all,
and that
city is the home and center of grunge rock. It's not surprising that
Geoff, Chris
and the rest QR might be influenced by their peers in Seattle - namely
Chris
Cornell (an amazing talent), Eddie Vedder (an amazing talent), and the
late
Kurt Cobain (an amazing disappointment).
Just thought I'd throw that in and see if it gets mauled...
Rob
"Everything is True. Even false things are True."
- Malaclypse the Younger, O.P.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 10:42:46 -0600
From: svjohnson@amoco.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Lemur Voice
Message-ID: <199703271643.AA00978@interlock.amoco.com>
>P.S. - where the hell can I get any CD by "Lemur Voice"? I've heard
>great stuff about this band, and so far I have a 100% success ratio
>in finding great new bands via blind recommendations by YTSEjammers.
Some more raves about this band....I finally really listened to "Free
Will" on Working Man and I must say these guys can kick it!!!!
Marcel, you can really play a bitch-dog of guitar! I will be looking
for your release!
Steve
MARGE: "I'm going to the store. Anything you'd like for dinner?"
HOMER: "Steak?"
MARGE: "Our budget's too tight for steak."
HOMER: "Steak?"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:43:10 -0000
From: "Mike Patrick" <mepatrick@iquest.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Jon Finn Group/Stimulating Dream/Wacky!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199703271648.IAA12398@odin.ax.com>
>ATTENTION: THE ONLY FLAMES STARTED CONCERNING
>BRIAN WHERRY WILL BE WHEN HIS SHREDDING BLOWS
>THE PHUKIN' AMP UP!! GOT IT? DON'T GO THERE!
Surely, this is a joke. Yeah, there IS a lot of shredding. There's also
some great phrasing, some wicked work with a drum machine, good use of
keys, and some great interplay between the guitar and drum parts. Good
god, if you don't think this stuff is good, how did you end up hanging
around the 'jam in the first place??
Mike
mepatrick@iquest.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:39:21 -0600
From: bwrights@dnaent.com (Bill Wrightson)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: No top 10 lists !!!!!
Message-ID: <199703271639.KAA10005@lotus.dnaent.com>
The subject says it all
Bill Wrightson
***************************************************************************
** **
** Bill Wrightson email: bwrights@dnaent.com **
** DNA Enterprises, INC. **
** 1240 E. Campbell Road **
** Richardson, Tx 75081 **
** **
** Voice: (972) 671-1972 ext:267 Fax: (972) 671-1581 **
** **
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:12:18 -0500
From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Classify THIS
Message-ID: <199703271709.MAA23791@uhura.ici.net>
>I'm all for surprising people, and tricking them into giving an
>open minded listen to music by not telling them who or what to expect, but
>when it comes down to it, classifications are neccessary. Just because
>you label music doesn't mean the band is confined to that style. That's a
>myth.
Bravo. I've always wondered why people rebel so much against "labelling"
bands. I've seen a perfect example of this over the past month or so. I've
been looking at the online CD outlets looking for Tool stuff. Every one that
I have seen that classifies bands has them listed as "Grunge" or
"Alternative". Now frankly, that's not where I would put them, but because
these places list them that way, do you think they're going to start
recording Bush cover tunes? Of course not.
Th same is true of DT. You can call them anything you want. I can call DT
alternative. I have, actually, to get a couple closed-minded people to
listen to 'em. I don't think it's likely that DT is going to start recording
2 1/2 minute songs using 3-string guitars simply because I mislabeled them. :)
-----
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________
E-mail: psull@ici.net
IRC: DDictator
WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
NP: Dream Theater - "When Dream And Day Unite"
______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:12:54 -0500
From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Top Ten
Message-ID: <199703271709.MAA23901@uhura.ici.net>
>To: jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu;ytsejam@ax.com
>From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
>Subject: Top Ten
>
>>Why not have everyone post their personal favorite top 10 CDs by any
>>groups of all-time. So, go into your CD changers, CD collection, and
>
>Becuase according to the list rules, top ten lists ARE NOT ALLOWED!!!
>
>Please re-read the rules posting you got when you subscribed before you
make any more suggestions.
>
>[posted and e-mailed]
>
>
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________
E-mail: psull@ici.net
IRC: DDictator
WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
NP: Dream Theater - "When Dream And Day Unite"
______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:07:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2392
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970327105859.11771C-100000@enteract.com>
> Check out Bass Extremes - Steve Bailey and Victor Wooten playing some
> serious duets - neither comes out better - infact it's their difference
> in style which makes the thing so good
One of the most entertaining and least educational Bass
instructional videos available!
> I learned Rule #1 of the Net a long time ago: Give as good as you get. I
> posted what I thought was a fairly humorous 'hey, everybody, wake up and
> smell the samples' thing, and was called a 'loser' for my effort. At that
> point, civility, doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
For what it's worth, I'm with ya there! I don't understand what
you did to be called "loser"
> Cheap Trick,
> INXS,
> Rush,
> Queensryche (tour dates please!!),
> Nuno Bettencourt,
> Collective Soul,
> Rush (I'm seeing 'em twice),
> and if Megadeth ever releases their album, you can bet I'll be there!
No offense, but I'M MOVING TO GERMANY TOO! I'd take ONE FW
concert or ONE Symphony X concert over all of those bands combined! :)
> From: Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu>
> Subject: Request - TOP TEN CDs OF ALL TIME -
> Why not have everyone post their personal favorite top 10 CDs by any
> groups of all-time.
***BBZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTT***
WRONG ANSWER, BUT THANK YOU FOR PLAYING!
Did somebody pee in your gene pool or something? (j/k)
Skadz explains weekly that this is not allowed. The more acceptable,
smoother way to do this, is have people mail YOU, and then YOU compile the
favorites, and send your results to the jam (Like, the top 10 albums that
the jammers vote on, etc...).
Please take this into consideration before you start a thread like this.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:06:44 -0600
From: "Robin L. Campbell" <campbell@str.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New QR / Kamelot / Other Bands
Message-ID: <199703271708.JAA12571@odin.ax.com>
Hey Gang,
I am planning on ordering some stuff from KnightsOfTheRound next
week and if any one can comment about any of the following albums
(preferably with respect to other albums by them for comparison) I would
greatly appreciate it:
Kamelot - Dominion or Eternity. Which one is better, IYHO
Letter X - Time of the Gathering. I currently have 'Born into Darkness'
Annihilator - Refresh the Demon. Anyone have this? I never heard of it before.
Ivanhoe - recommendations for first purchase?
Symphony X - S/T How does it compare to Damnation Game?
(also, has anyone found Divine Wings of Tragedy anywhere for < $30???)
Onslaught - Power from Hell I heavily doubt anyone has this, but you
never know. I have 'In Search of Sanity' & thought they were no more.
About the new QR:
I have to agree with those that say even though it's different, it's
still good. I personally didn't like it much the first time, but after
hearing many times since, I really dig it. I don't think, however, that it
rocks any more than any other album of theirs, and actually, I think it
generally is a lot slower and mellower. Despite its possibly 'grungy'
exterior, however, there is some great riffs and grooves, along with the
usually high quality lyrical content we have come to expect. Anyways, if you
LOVE EVERYTHING they have done in the past, then you will grow to dig this
disc too, but if only like a couple of their albums, either just the newer
or just the older stuff, I would suggest listening before you buy. My
personal high points are spOOL, Some People Fly, Hit the Black, and Miles
Away. BTW, I think LOAD is a cool album too, so sue me!
Thanks for any info and for golly gosh sakes, have a peachy day!
-Poop Robby Rob in da Hooowwwsssseeee!
p.s. To that jerk that said all grunge is crap: Hallelujia! I agree 100%.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:24:35 -0800
From: Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2392
Message-ID: <199703271714.JAA24297@ichips.intel.com>
>Why not have everyone post their personal favorite top 10 CDs by any
>groups of all-time.
Looks like it's time to skip over most 'jams for a while... :p
-- Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com> | If I had a witty remark that MD6 Design Engineer, Intel Corp, Hillsboro OR | would better the lives of my -=(UDIC)=- Subconscious Dragon -=(UDIC)=- | fellow mankind, do you really ** I don't speak for Intel ** | think I would put it HERE?------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:26:24 +0000 From: YtseJim <LUTZ@uhavax.hartford.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: SellOut?!? Message-ID: <Pine.VMS.3.91-vms-b4.970327121758.21686A-100000@uhavax.hartford.edu>
> From: Soul Madness <mcauburn@iinc.com> > Why not make a list of all the bands that sold out: > 1) Motley Crue- with their self-titled album. However, I still think this > > 2) Metallica- with their album Load. Once again, I think this CD has some > > 3) Queensryche- with their brand new album Hear In The Now Frontier. I
Wait a minute here....first of all, The Crue Sold out with Dr.Feelgood Metallica sold out with the Black Album and QR sold out with Empire
I am basing the term sellout on Radio airplay. I, personally, don't care if a band has sold out or not. If the music sounds good to me, thats ALL that matters. Just because the music sounds different does not mean they soldout. QR's new one still has that same QR feel to it.
//########################################################\\ // Jim Lutz |"Let's say goodbye to Jesus, \\ // | the world he left \\ // YtseJim@DreamT.org | won't ever be the same. \\ // YtseJim@HoTMaiL.com | You Took Away My hero, \\ // Lutz@uhavax.hartford.edu| Now Take Away My Pain"-Dream Theater \\ //####################################################################\\
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:25:54 +0100 From: akyuz@ltp.dmx.epfl.ch To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: TOP x lists Message-ID: <v03007800af605a122898@[128.178.99.38]>
>I have a request from everyone on the JAM. >Why not have everyone post their personal favorite top 10 CDs by any
WHY NOT...
S H U T U P ! !
NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! ! NO TOP WHATSOEVER ON THE JAM ! !
..CAN YOU READ THIS ?
I guess you're a newbie, or else you should know by now.
You have a private e-mail address: use it.
Sorry to ya other jamanutz for the bandwidth (where's Skadz??)
L8r,
................................. DAVE KING bass & harmony M T 2 0 p r o g m e t a l http://websites.maxess.ch/mt20 (coming soon)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:35:10 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Sirois <ms014e@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: apocalyptic eschatlogy Message-ID: <199703271735.MAA14412@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
> ANACRUSIS -- Manic Impressions > > Somebody finally sent me the CD of this that I had been waiting on (hi > Chris).. :) Anyway, not quite as good as the album after it, Screams and > Whispers, but it's worth it just for 'I Love the World'. This band is > _my_ personal definition of progressive _heavy_ metal (emphasis on the > heavy part). The guitarists are quite talented, the band is tight, the > music is loud, and the screams are chilling. One thing about this band > that I find unique is their use of dissonance... they take this chord > that just grates at your soul, but they somehow manage to pull it off as > something cohesive. i completely agree. anacrusis stands in my mind as one of the strongest, most unique, creative, intelligent, ass-kicking bands of all time. their break up broke my heart, but they left us some phenomenal work regardless.
dt question... on images and words, was the end of pull me under a cut off in the studio, or does the band actually just stop? i realize in concert the latter occurs, but it sounds as though they just cut the recording short for the cd.
also, without a doubt, the vocals are far superior on images and words. awake is too growly, distorted, would be grunge. lie would be far better if the chorus wasn't sung so horridly.
nuff said.
-ms
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:39:25 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu> To: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net> Subject: Re: Top Ten Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.970327112032.24437A-100000@rossby>
On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Pat Sullivan wrote:
> >Why not have everyone post their personal favorite top 10 CDs by any > >groups of all-time. So, go into your CD changers, CD collection, and > > Becuase according to the list rules, top ten lists ARE NOT ALLOWED!!! > > Please re-read the rules posting you got when you subscribed before you make > any more suggestions.
Excuse me! I've seen A LOT worse posts than the suggestion that we learn more about other's musical tastes. I DO recall this rule, so I apologize. But, what about all that total CRAP about DT tribute and the flames and arguing, etc. Also, the religious arguments, ripping apart others favorite bands, etc. Then, I get flamed for once posting something that goes against the rules (in a harmless fashion I may add). I think you're enforcing the *WRONG* rules on this jam! Further, I HAVE seen others posting lists, such as top ten Letterman-type lists, NOT EVEN RELATING TO DT CONTENT or music! I don't normally get pissed, but I've been one of the FEW who have been upholding proper standards for this JAM. This is quite disturbing getting quickly rebuked for one lonesome post I had!!!
I say that:
-FLAMES NOT BE ALLOWED, -RELIGIOUS discusions NOT BE ALLOWED -Watch our language in describing things. FUCK need not be used everytime. (I have been guilty of this a couple times myself, but NOT NEARLY as often as everyone else...)
Anyway, I probably overreacted to your e-mail, but I just think that it's kinda unfair that I get the corrective voice thrown at me so quickly. I hope you did the same to the other who have been flaming, etc.
My $2 worth....
Jon Case
P.S. - don't take this e-mail too much at heart, cause I'm generally disappointed at the lack of quality of the JAM. It just took a spark to get me onto my soapbox.... Also, I AM STILL INTERESTED IN PEOPLE'S TOP 10 LISTS. PLEASE E-MAIL ME PERSONALLY AT jcase@rossby.ou.edu
> > [posted and e-mailed] > > > > _____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ > E-mail: psull@ici.net > IRC: DDictator > WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html > NP: Dream Theater - "When Dream And Day Unite" > ______________________________________________________________ > >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 11:42:43 -0600 (CST) From: Pete Dziadzka <petedz@interaccess.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Grunge Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970327113211.17812B-100000@oxywhite.interaccess.com>
>There are a lot of amazing talents in grunge rock
Personally, I can't think of a single one. Certainly not the people you name later in your post.
> shouldn't lump it all together and label it "crap." That kind of > mentality is infantile...
Yes, the post you were responding to was infantile.
> QR is a Seattle-based band, after all, and that > city is the home and center of grunge rock. It's not surprising that > Geoff, Chrisand the rest QR might be influenced by their peers in Seattle - namely > Chris Cornell (an amazing talent), Eddie Vedder (an amazing talent), and the > late Kurt Cobain (an amazing disappointment).
QR peers with Kurt Cobain? Ouch! That is the worst insult anyone could lay on a musician or a human being in general. The only thing that disappoints me about Cobain is that he recorded albums before taking his own life and leaving his child without a father.
-- Pete Dziadzka
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:44:04 -0800 From: Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <199703271743.AA16495@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello all! Some sick puppy wrote:
>"You couldn't hit the broadside of a ba...! Gccchh..." -- Crispus >Attucks
And I laughed my ass off. Thanks for that one. As for the guy writing this:
>Oh, and by the way, Brian thought the post that made me a 'loser' was >pretty funny.
Funny, I don't recall him saying so. Or did he forget where he put his mouth...:) If someone sends you something in private mail, it's usually because they don't want it on the jam. At least that's why I do it. I'm not speaking for anyone else here...:)
New Queensryche: I nearly puked at the first listen. My first thought: this sucks. I should get over listen to CDs in my car, it's not conducive to first listens for albums. I have given it four more listens and my opinion has rotated 180 degrees. I like it a lot. I have to agree with two sentiments expressed though: don't like the drum sound, the guitar tones are pretty blah in places. A third sentiment that has been espoused as a detraction is Geoff limiting his vocal range. I agree that he does this, but these particular songs are not affected. In fact, when he cuts loose on "Saved" its a refreshing dose of emotion. This is the best song on the album for me so far. Least favorite: "Get A Life". What was Geoff thinking on that chorus! The album lacks the extreme variation in textures that made PL such a phenomenal album. The rhythm guitars all sound pretty much the same. But there is plenty experimentation with lead tones. Sometimes it sounds good, other times not. Also, I think Eddie spoke up and said "Can I get heard on an album for once?" Lot of bass. It drives a few of the songs, like "You" and etches a groove through most of the album. In conclusion, the good stuff on HitNF outweighs the bad, enough to make it worth a recommendation. It reminds me a lot of Empire in ways: song structures, etc. But that album's lyrics blow this away. Definitely a new turn for the original Seattle band...
Andrew
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2393 **************************
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