YTSEJAM Digest 2408
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2406
by "Lauren Glenn" <L_Glenn@ix.netcom.com>
2) Re: Americans
by ITCHAK SCHWARZBARD <is01133@mis.finchcms.edu>
3) stupid Americans/Europeans
by Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2404
by Matt Robbins <robbins@aero.und.edu>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2407
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
6) Americans... blah...
by vanzin@dks.com.br
7) national feuds
by "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
8) Re: Gary is What?
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
9) Gotta get mine in before we all get kicked off the 'Jam! :)
by nishiki@juno.com (Aaron K. Silverman)
10) Drummer comments and bass abilities (WARNING - CONTAINS HUMOR!!)
by rsterry@idirect.com (Rick Terry)
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2406
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2406
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@digital.dreamt.org>
13) Vicious Rumors
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
14) Re: love is blindness unless you're suckin my cock
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
15) regarding the recent debate....
by "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com>
16) Re: Metallica retires?
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
17) Re: Americans? (NDTC)
by "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
18) Metallica..oh shit!
by Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com>
19) The wisdom that is Wild Koba, other stuff
by dseeger@juno.com (Deborah J. Seeger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:15:03 -0500
From: "Lauren Glenn" <L_Glenn@ix.netcom.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2406
Message-ID: <199704010217.UAA07424@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
> > I refuse to to allow my country to be judged by Scott Cook. :)
>
> You're a fine one to talk Chris! During the fix for 96 debate you
> spew all kinds of shit but then justify buying Mike Bahr's CD's
> by saying "Since the band didn't try to stop it, then it was ok."
> Those words may not be exact, but they're pretty close.
>
> So I guess by your example you're saying it was alright for
> Hitler to kill miilions of Jews because when he started putting
> them in Ghettos no one really objected, that meant it was ok
> to kill them. Some morals you got there Chris!
>
> and when did I start living in the Unisted States of Ptacek?
Not to take sides here, but are we comparing Hitler killing Jews to Mike
Bahr putting out CDs? How can you draw parallels between putting out
bootlegs and killing people? I'm not the biggest fan of bootlegs if the
band doesn't want them, but DT knows about Mike's CDs and even gave him
approval.
> ********************************************************************
> What do a nearsighted gynecologist and a puppy
> have in common?
> A wet nose!
> *******************************************************************
A little sick, IMO..... It may be a joke, but still.....
Lauren
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:18:02 -0600 (CST)
From: ITCHAK SCHWARZBARD <is01133@mis.finchcms.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Americans
Message-ID: <9704010218.AA28562@mis.finchcms.edu>
> And they say *Americans* are supid!
>
> Here's some questions FOR NON-AMERICANS ONLY!
>
> What is the capitol of North Dakota?
Is this a trick question? Isn't the capiTOL in D.C.?
How about this one: Who is the best progressive rock band in the world,
and where are they from?
And to the dude from Belgium that flamed me:
One thing americans are known for is a sense of humor. Try to find one.
I didn't know you took offense when we made fun of your holy waffles. If
you need, I will soon be able to prescribe you some Prozac, when I
graduate into our underdeveloped medical profession.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:18:32 -0600
From: Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: stupid Americans/Europeans
Message-ID: <33407078.3C47@mail.stlnet.com>
Shit NOW! Dont tell me that we are going to fight about countrys now!
Who the hell cares who is better then who? Lets stop this before it
gets into a big fight, please. Lets settle it by saying we are all
people and we are all equal who cares who has better ratings in math and
science who cares who has better basketball :-) Thats all that I feel
like saying right now :-)
-Aaron Happe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:39:42 -0600
From: Matt Robbins <robbins@aero.und.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2404
Message-ID: <3340756E.1D49@aero.und.edu>
I've got to tell the general jamming population that as an American, I'm
embarrassed that another American could possible have the nerve to call
anyone a fucking idiot for not knowing the answers to these questions
when they, themselves, can't even spell CAPITAL! (SEE BELOW) Judge not,
lest you be judged.
> Here's some questions FOR NON-AMERICANS ONLY!
>
> What is the capitol of North Dakota?
> Who is the owner of NBC?
> Who is the 37th President of the U.S. ?
> What is the name of Elvis Presley's home and
> where is it located?
> What is the largest state is area, NOT population?
>
> If you can't answer these then you're a fucking idiot!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 97 20:38:11 -0600
From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2407
Message-ID: <334075126c7d587@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 18:31:43 EST
> From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
> To: ytsejam@ax.com
> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2406
> Message-ID: <19970331.153228.3862.0.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
>
>
> > I refuse to to allow my country to be judged by Scott Cook. :)
>
> You're a fine one to talk Chris! During the fix for 96 debate you
> spew all kinds of shit but then justify buying Mike Bahr's CD's
> by saying "Since the band didn't try to stop it, then it was ok."
> Those words may not be exact, but they're pretty close.
>
> So I guess by your example you're saying it was alright for
> Hitler to kill miilions of Jews because when he started putting
> them in Ghettos no one really objected, that meant it was ok
> to kill them. Some morals you got there Chris!
I thought I'd seen some illogical, incoherent arguments in my time, but
this really takes the cake. Is this a joke, or is your head really that far
up your ass? Just curious.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:42:32 -0300
From: vanzin@dks.com.br
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Americans... blah...
Message-ID: <TCPSMTP.17.3.31.-9.42.32.2579404677.648131@dks.com.br>
(Warning: this message is filled with sarcasm, humour, many mispelled
words probably, and all other stupid things written by one of the dumb
non-americans who weren't gifted, that is, weren't born in the USA, and
can't benefit from your marvelous educational system. Hey! At least I
don't pay a cent to study in the best engineering school of Latin
America. :) )
Hi there,
YT>alone, the U.S. discovered flight, crossed the Atlantic by air, put a man
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hey, hey, hey! You may have the first guys who actually flied,
but WE brazilians have the FIRST guy who flied in a aeroplane who could
TAKE OFF, not needed to be thrown in the air. :) Not to say that this
same guy invented the so-called wrist watch, and many other things. :)
Now to the point: ok, everyone bitched a lot, now let's all
climb down our pedestals and kill this arguing. No one is better than
anyone else just because he know more American state capitals than the
other, nor because he can say exactly where every little
close-to-unknown countries are (surely, I'm not talking about Belgium :)
).
[]'s
Marcelo Vanzin
Sใo Paulo - Brasil
vanzin@dks.com.br vanzin@dreamt.org
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/
อออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออออ
DarkStar Multimidia BBs Telnet: dks.com.br Fone +55 011 870-1888
Internet, Gameconection, Games, ShareWare Fone/Fax +55 011 870-3444
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:50:55 -0600
From: "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: national feuds
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970401035055.0080f83c@mail.inlink.com>
i just think the whole world sucks :)
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:57:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
To: Ewald Janssen <Symbolic@worldaccess.nl>
Subject: Re: Gary is What?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.970331225654.3905A-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
I am willing to bet that David Lee Roth will never ever return to Van
halen, no matter what happens. Of course, one could dream, and be wrong.
For the record, I like Roth and Hagar. How about getting James Labrie to
do some tracks for VH?
Damon Fibraio
Reach me at damon@shell.monmouth.com
keyboardist, vocalist, radio personality
professional dumb-ass
"you can feel the waves coming on
Let them destroy you or carry you on.
You're fighting the weight of the world and no one can save you this time
Close your eyes, you'll find all you need in your mind."--Dream Theater,
Take the Time
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:34:07 PST
From: nishiki@juno.com (Aaron K. Silverman)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Gotta get mine in before we all get kicked off the 'Jam! :)
Message-ID: <19970331.225151.9798.5.nishiki@juno.com>
OK, I feel as though I should give something back, in grateful
return for all the laughs I've gotten from this nationalism thread (if
members of DT are reading, I hope you've learned your lesson about
taking more than 1 month between new releases! :) )
About people coming to the US to study. . .the US has the best universities (not to say there aren't great schools elsewhere, of course).
They simply have the most money and resources. The public schools, on
the other hand, are a joke. It's the same as anywhere, you get what you
put into them, and for too many people, education is just not a priority.
In other countries, kids put way more time and effort into their own educations, and that's why they're better educated (for the most part). For
those of us in the US who motivate ourselves to learn, there is as much
opportunity for a good education as any other country. Unfortunately,
people are not brought up to respect school and their parents do not
instill them with the desire to learn. The best teachers all end up
burning out from frustration. . .I've seen it happen too many times and
it always makes me sad.
And to those of you putting down memorizing state capitals. .
.it's a badge of unity, like starting to applaud before the national
anthem is quite finished. It's a US thang, you wouldn't understand. :)
And do I think that the US is #1? I do. And I have a reason!
(Besides DT, even though they did borrow a Canuck after a while. . .)
Variety. Go from Miami to Honolulu to New York to Anchorage to Fargo to
Houston etc. etc. etc., and you will see that there is no other country
in the world that has so many different things to offer. There's a
lifestyle for anybody here. But don't tell my wife, she'll beat on me.
(She's from Osaka. :) )
Of course, this is also why our government has so many problems.
. .they continually want more centralized power in Washington, and what works for someone who's never been outside the Beltway of DC just ain't right for someone on a farm in Nebraska! Some smaller countries have had success with some level of socialism, but it just won't cut it here.
There are too many diverse ways of life.
And finally, for those folks in Parts Unknown who are curious
about the answers to whoever-it-was' trivia quiz (at least the questions
I remember):
Alaska is the largest state by area.
Nixon is(was?) the 37th president.
NBC is owned by RCA, which is owned by GE (unless it's changed
recently).
Ted Turner owns a bunch of cable stations(including CNN), and
tries to get an NHL franchise in Atlanta.
Bismarck is the capital of North Dakota. (Capitol is the name of
the building where Congress meets.)
Elvis' house is Graceland and it's in Memphis, Tennessee.
(smack!)
(smack!)
(smack!)
OK, take it to email. . .
DJ Kuul A
PS Oh yeah, Capitol is also Iron Maiden's former label!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 04:06:03 GMT
From: rsterry@idirect.com (Rick Terry)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Drummer comments and bass abilities (WARNING - CONTAINS HUMOR!!)
Message-ID: <33417f28.28474438@mail.idirect.com>
>Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 23:19:10 -0500 (EST)
>From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@digital.dreamt.org>
>Drummers who are confident about the way they play usually just laugh it
>off and hit me back with a bass-player joke, after which I usually go =
tell
>my mom and cry in my room for a while.
...following which your mom buries her head in her hands and
cries as well because she knows that you suck as a bass player too.
(insert sound of snickering and rapid shuffling of feet as I race for
the nearest fallout shelter) ;-)>
Oh man!! It looks like D goes down for the count on that one!!
D-man converted to analog by a slash wound to the ego.
For those of you who are humor impaired, THIS IS A JOKE!!
I've been a drummer and a guitarist and I only prefer guitar
because it costs me less to maintain my rig than my kit used to.
Besides, it's easier to take an acoustic to a campfire sing along than
a 40 piece Tama kit. 8-)>
Cheers,
Rick
Toronto
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:16:04 -0500
From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2406
Message-ID: <v01530500af663c605b4f@[207.79.6.163]>
>When a lot of other
>countries have a disaster the first thing they do is call America.
I thought America was two continents and not a country.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:12:03 -0500 (EST)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@digital.dreamt.org>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2406
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970331231053.5047A-100000@digital.dreamt.org>
On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, Lauren Glenn wrote:
> A little sick, IMO..... It may be a joke, but still.....
To paraphrase Dennis Miller, "There's the real world, and then there's the
'Jam world. The 'Jam world can get pretty rough. Wear a cup."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster
cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:20:56 -0500
From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Vicious Rumors
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970331232053.0068b658@ici.net>
> Alright. 'Bout VR.
Yesssss....another VR fan!! :)
> I have their albums left on Atlantic and Brunette. I recommends you
>"Welcome To The Ball" and "Word Of Mouth". Well,about their 5th and the
>last with Carl Albert (R.I.P.),Go and Buy this one. Carl did owesome vocal
>performance. His master-piece. You can't leave from your speaker.
Hands down the best album. It's an absolute shame that he died (car
accident, BTW), but if you had to have an album as your memorial, this is
the one. An absolutely great piece of work. I HIGHLY recommend it. I don't
think it's available in the U.S., so any of you dumb U.S. jammers are gonna
have to order it as an import. :) Do it - it rocks.
The first
>track "Against The Grain" and track-5,6 "Thunder And Rain" (dedicated to
>Chris Oliva (Savatage)), track-7 "No Fate" are some kind of "Rock master
>piece",don't you think that?
I love Thunder and Rain, I just wish it was a little longer. Both pieces
together are only about 6 1/2 minutes. It leaves me wanting more (Of
course, with DT, I'm spoiled with longer songs :))
> The latest one titled "Something Burining" are fronted by Geoff
>Thorpe,well he did it well, it's very hard to perform as the replacement of
>Carl, but somethingmissing. Don't ya think that,too?
Yeah. That's not the only lineup change, and the band's sound has undergone
a major overhaul. Geoff Thorpe, who was the co-lead guitarist, is now the
lead vocalist as well. He sings with a growly tone that can be a bit of a
letdown for Carl Albert fans. The other guitarist (Mark McGee) and the bass
player (Dave Starr??) also left and were replaced.
If you get WOM and like it, Then you can get any of the 3 albums before
that that Carl Albert sang on - Digital Dictator (yes, that's where I got
my IRC handle from), Vicious Rumors, and Welcome To The Ball.
Their first album, Soldiers Of The Night, had a different vocalist (maybe
it was Charlie Dominici, who knows. :)), but featured Vinnie Moore on lead
guitar. So any VM fans may want to check it out.
OK, enough VR ranbling by me for one day. The power's about to go out, and
so am I.
________Pat Sullivan__________________________________
E-mail: psull@ici.net
WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
IRC: DDictator
NP: Tool - "Aenima"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:19:23 -0800
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: love is blindness unless you're suckin my cock
Message-ID: <199704010419.UAA02632@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Raivo Hool said:
>
>Vedder is a good lyricist, so is Cornell. This is not an opinion.
>
That's a load of horseshit... next you're gonna tell me Sheryl Crow is
a good lyricist... and Lars is a good drummer...
>Raitz
>
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% *$%&%#$* Global Micro Solutions #$#$#@@# *$*$*$*# Reality Enhancement Software - Engineering Reality *$&#*#@$ #$@#$#@# http://www.gmsnet.com/progmetal @#$@##@$------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 22:19:22 +0000 From: "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: regarding the recent debate.... Message-ID: <19970401041848.AAA21300@subtlerage.avalon.net>
i'm starting my own country because ALL of yours suck.
it shall be known as Suckhole.
piss on you all.
THHHPPPPPT!!!!
:-)
Andrew Miller - keyboardist/vocalist - subtlerage http://www.subtlerage.com - subtlerage@subtlerage.com "first impressions" released. .wav files available
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:23:13 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Metallica retires? Message-ID: <199704010423.UAA02682@gms.gmsnet.com>
YAAAAYY!!! SAY IT'S SO!!!!
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% *$%&%#$* Global Micro Solutions #$#$#@@# *$*$*$*# Reality Enhancement Software - Engineering Reality *$&#*#@$ #$@#$#@# http://www.gmsnet.com/progmetal @#$@##@$
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 21:12:40 +0000 From: "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Americans? (NDTC) Message-ID: <199704010424.UAA00477@odin.ax.com>
> Bullshit. Of all of the world's industrialized countries, the education > system in the USA ranks DEAD LAST (or close to last anyway) in the maths > and sciences. And overall the US education system is rated as one of the > worst in studies done by the UN and other organizations. In world wide > tests of students in the maths and sciences, Americans didn't even come > CLOSE to students in countries like Japan, Singapore, Sweden, Finland, > Romania, etc. The literacy and employment rates in the US doen't even > compare to that of Scandinavian countries (which are at about 99.9%).
Strange as it may seem, I agree with Lars. Don't get me wrong, our education system is great and is there for everyone who wants to take advantage of it. The biggest problem is that alot of those with the chance to grasp it won't do it. I saw too many kids back when I was in high school who were just counting the days till they were 16 so they could drop out. It's really sad, too. I actually liked going to school and kinda miss it. I think I'd have actually taken the chance to learn more than I did. In the sense of people bashing our education system, I really don't think it's fair. Not at my high school at least. It's the person's resposibility to learn, not the teacher's. The teacher can only do his/her best to motivate the student. It's real hard to motivate a close-minded student. Sometimes it can be impossible.
I really don't think it's fair for anyone's education simply because of a few chance meeting with some negligent people. Unfortunately that's the additude alot of people are going to take regardless of the situation and this is going to turn into a huge international flame war like the FIX boot thread did.
Let's look for another thread, this is just a fuse. Someone lit it and is just waiting for the jam to explode. KorgX3 a.k.a. ibanez@cyberhighway.net http://www.cyberhighway.net/~ibanez/index.html Disclaimer: The content expressed in the previous document is not the opinion of the author. The author is exonerated of anything written therein. Viewer discretion is advised.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:27:54 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Kube <j-kube@nh.ultranet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Metallica..oh shit! Message-ID: <199704010427.XAA27709@hammurabi.nh.ultra.net>
I got this in the last ytsejam.
This morning I heard on the radio that Metallica is forced to break-up because of James condition with Tinnitus. It's so bad that the ringing' in his ear is driving him insane. I can't imagine how bad his condition is because I've got a slight case in one ear and it gets annoying when its real quiet, especially at night. I feel for him and the band, I hope that this will publicly expose the awareness and dangers of loud music or sounds. James, Don't Fade to Black!!!!! Hold the Dream (FH)
Francesco
I really need to know if this is true. I have tickets to see them on Sunday in Albany. I am so fucked if this is true. Somebody send me some insight on whether or not this is a true rumor or if someone (Francesco) is trying to freak me out!! AAAAAHHHH!!! Later, J
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 23:29:36 EST From: dseeger@juno.com (Deborah J. Seeger) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The wisdom that is Wild Koba, other stuff Message-ID: <19970401.102927.5055.3.DSeeger@juno.com>
>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 16:50:29 -0500 (EST) >From: WildKoba@aol.com
>but before i go there, check this shit out: > >a) i was watching tv, and there was a twix commercial on, 2 guys >(father = >and >son) were in a maternity ward viewing all these babies (i imagine one >of = >them >belonged to the son), and they were ramblinb about something >silly....i w= >ould >tell you about if i hadn't heard what was going on in the >background...........in the background, i kept hearing the hospital >scene >from the beginning of operation mindcrime!!!!! i almost fainted.....it >wa= >s >something else....whew. > Has anyone else ever noticed that in many TV shows, movies, whatever, they use the SAME hospital paging bit that's on Mindcrime? You'd think that the sound effects libraries would have more than one of those, but nnooooooooo! I don't think you were imagining things, Dave.
>Okay, here is my deal here. I am a big fan of music video's but >they never seem t play anything good. Every once and a while a I will >see a Guns N Roeses video but that is it. I think that we might have >a >chance to see some cool videos if ppl could email MTV and ask them to >play some other shit. They used to have a Headbangers Ball a few years >back that played DT a few times, they even had some of them on as a >guest. I know it probly will not work but hey! its worth a try! SO >PLEASE EMAIL THEM! I am really getting feed up with that crap that >has >been played lately.=20 > >-Aaron Happe > E-mail address, please? I think music video is a great art form and eMpTy V made it into a playground of corporate feelgood "music." I discovered quite a few of my favorite bands through Headbanger's Ball, as I'm sure many of you did as well. Anyone have an extra copy of Savatage's "Streets" they need to get rid of? Mine got stolen, along with my car stereo. :(
Debbie
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2408 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:59:23 EST