YTSEJAM Digest 2526
Today's Topics:
1) Response from Francesco Mescino (francesco.b.meschino@som.com)
by "Francesco Mescino" <francesco.b.meschino@som.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
3) Re: I've been inspired!
by eckie@asu.edu
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
5) New CT, random input from me...
by Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
6) Re: KTS boots
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
7) Re: the overall effectiveness of the pulsing waves of music
by Cygnus <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
8) OZZFEST
by Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
10) Re: KTS boots
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
11) EJ concert review
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525...Wow!!!
by ytse_jammer@mail.utexas.edu (Apolonio F Santos Jr.)
13) wonder why?
by Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
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Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 04:06:21 Central Daylight Time
From: "Francesco Mescino" <francesco.b.meschino@som.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Response from Francesco Mescino (francesco.b.meschino@som.com)
Message-ID: <19970501040621.50cb8e33.in@mail.som.com>
You may no longer reach me at this E-Mail address.
I've changed and modified my last name to Mescino.
The new address is f.mescino@som.com.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 05:22:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525
Message-ID: <199705010922.FAA02346@freenet2.carleton.ca>
>point of listening to them. IMO, a song should have a reason for you to
>listen to it till the end. For example, a good example would be LTL, w/
>middle section which slowly builds up to the super-feelingsioso solo and
>ends in the cool WFS jam. But there's simpler ways like the end of the solo
>on PMU. Notice those how those last chords just pull you into (under, bad
>pun, sorry) the last chorus?. That' what i'm talking about. And it's present
>also in many 3-chord songs.. it's all about good arraniging. In fact there
>are certain prog groups that miss this point completely. All their songs are
>basically verse-chorus-verse-chorus-long instrumental section to show their
>unbelievable skills-chorus.
Could you please give a few examples? A lot of bands that do this
that come to mind (Rush, Yes, Genesis) are not really prog and haven't
been for years.
As for the rest of your point, I'm not sure I completely
understood it. Yes, some songs have hooks..
>2 comment: It seems to me, that what sets DT aside from other bands is that,
>instead of being formed of a singer, a guitarist, a drummer, etc..., they
>are five MUSICIANS. By that, I'm not implying that any of the
>aforementioned(?) instrumentalists aren't musicians. It's that all members
>of DT (or at least most, I don't know 'em personally) have a generally good
>sense of songwriting and arrangement ( which kinda ties in w/ my first
>comment). And one can see how they have matured w/ that ( and they're own
>individual skills) with time. Most bands usually have one guy who's the main
>songwriter and arranger (Harris in Maiden, for example) and of course
>there's the infamous producer.
It has always seemed to me, although I could be wrong, that
Petrucci and Moore were always the main songwriters for DT, so they
basically fall into the same category as the bands you mention like Iron
Maiden. (Actually more like post-80's Genesis with two principal
songwriters). I'm sure a large part of the reason Moore left after Awake
was because of Petrucci's growing influence on the band, noting the
heavier guitar sound on the album and comparing their song credits,
although I'm sure someone will disagree on this point.
I can't really comment on how much I think DT has matured when
they only have 3 studio albums. Perhaps once the next album is out I'll
inflict my opinion on you.
Oh and getting back to the musicians part. I agree, but sometimes
having "5 musicians" in a group can be a bad thing. I mean look at ELP,
you have three musical virtuosos but a lot of their stuff is a mess (and I
like them).. too much musicality often detracts from the group effect
although DT usually manages to play as a group pretty well.
>Possibly, but maybe these groups choose to "miss the point completely" and
>do it their way. By this criteria, ACOS could be one of these songs. But
>again, to each his own. And, that's the beauty of medleys :)
So would Metropolis... it's even more obvious there. I wish DT
would do a remix of the song that cut out the instrumental jam in the
middle. Maybe if they ever released Met.Pt. 2 they will play them together
live -- and have to truncate the first part to fit it in the concert :).
>There doesn't seem to be a compositional monopoly in DT and that's
>refreshing. Sure, too many cooks can spoil the broth, but I'll take a
>nice proggy, diverse broth with a piquant aftertaste over a bland chicken
Once again, I thought that Petrucci was the lyrical master of DT,
esp. now that Kevin is tickling keys for Fatez. BTW you're making me hungry.
>particularly generous, I'll listen to it all the way through to the
>keyboard solo, but after that, what's the point? I've already heard it
>all.
Zep does that a lot actually.. Battle of Evermore and Achilles'
Last Stand, my two favourite songs by them, are very repetitive. We should
be thankful that Stairway to Heaven contains a movement..
>But if you've got your fans evolving with you and then you suddenly do a
>180, you sort of leave them in the cold. Which is your perogative as an
>artist. Unless you're doing it for money, in which case you suck.
Alanis, are you listening?
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 02:22:51 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: I've been inspired! Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970501022113.22423A-100000@general2.asu.edu>
> I was so moved by tonight's Ellen episode I am proud to announce > to the Jam and the world that I AM A LESBIAN. That's right, I LOVE > women! Not only do I enjoy the company of women I also enjoy > kissing women and making love to women and only women. > > Thanks, I feel much better now :-) > > Scott
And I too must confess. I am also a vagitarian. I know I know, all you gay people out there are going, "How? Why?" but I can't keep living this LIE.
If you missed my micron of DT content, go bite off your left ear.
~Eckie
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Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 06:25:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525 Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970501060227.736A-100000@unix17.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Thu, 1 May 1997, Gordon McFee wrote: > It has always seemed to me, although I could be wrong, that > Petrucci and Moore were always the main songwriters for DT, so they > basically fall into the same category as the bands you mention like Iron > Maiden. (Actually more like post-80's Genesis with two principal
Petrucci and Moore were the main lyricists, but as I understand it the way DT writes songs really tends to be a whole band sort of thing. Someone will come up with a riff and they'll jam on it a whole lot and see what happens, record it all and go back to pick out the cool stuff later.
> songwriters). I'm sure a large part of the reason Moore left after Awake > was because of Petrucci's growing influence on the band, noting the
I think it's more likely Kevin didn't much care for the aforementioned writing process anymore. He wanted more control (a perfectly natural thing for a songwriter to want.) I think Petrucci's influence grew mainly to fill the void that Kevin's lack of interest was creating.
> So would Metropolis... it's even more obvious there. I wish DT > would do a remix of the song that cut out the instrumental jam in the > middle. Maybe if they ever released Met.Pt. 2 they will play them together > live -- and have to truncate the first part to fit it in the concert :).
Argh! (okay max, calm down, people have differen opinions, people have different opinions :) For me, the instrumental is absolutely vital to the song.
I can't comment on the "prog bands that miss the point" as I don't actually listen to a whole lot of prog bands, and most of the ones I do listen to don't go for all that wild instrumental stuff much, as they tend to be more lyrically-oriented and subtle with their music (see Fates, Vauxdvihl). Shadow Gallery might fit this description somewhat, although I do sense movement in their songs, even if I don't often particularly like them (though there is some really good stuff on carved in stone). Tool is a good example of a band that doesn't do all the wild stuff but definitely moves from point A to point B.
> Once again, I thought that Petrucci was the lyrical master of DT, > esp. now that Kevin is tickling keys for Fatez. BTW you're making me hungry.
Kevin's mostly tickling keys for himself. On the new songs, it looks to me like MP, JM, and JL are picking up the slack...but I suspect no single one of them will be writing as many lyrics as JP. He's just good at it (if damned cryptic a lot of the time.)
> > Zep does that a lot actually.. Battle of Evermore and Achilles' > Last Stand, my two favourite songs by them, are very repetitive. We should > be thankful that Stairway to Heaven contains a movement..
Well, those two songs are awfully repetitive, but they do progress. Battle of Evermore mostly lyrically (the prominent vocals help), and Achilles' has several different parts that repeat in different orders...I think...that song sort of transcends time for me. I never know where I am in it when it's playing and I usually don't care.
For me, I guess, if the music is particularly kickass, it only takes a little movement to keep my attention. You happened to select two excellent exceptions to the rule, as these happen to be two of my favourite songs, too. But they do move, albeit subtly.
-maximilian
Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
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Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 09:55:49 -0400 From: Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: New CT, random input from me... Message-ID: <199705011355.AA24555@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello, Gave the new Cheap Trick two solid listens, and I can say for the first time I am thoroughly disappointed with a Cheap Trick album. It is, IMHO, awful. The production is hollow and Robin's voice, though still in prime condition, sounds lousy on this album due to mixing. After Woke Up With a Monster, I was really hopeful. That was a solid album and not cheese-ridden like Busted (though that still had high points). I can't honestly say that there are any songs yet that stand out to me. They're just all generic and very un-CT. It almost sounds as if they're reverting to the sound of the first album, back in 1977, but the songs aren't as distinctive. And regressing like that now seems like a misstep to me. I have found something worthwhile on every CT album (even The Doctor), but this one may stump me. They still put on a great show though... June 7 at the Birch Hill! Though I pray to god they play in the city too... I'm ordering from KTS. I won't say what, because I'll definitely get flamed, but I have a question of anyone who's ordered. The screen says I'll be paying $160, but the sale prices aren't listed. Do they apply the sale prices, or should I call? And on this note:
>But I don't think Shockwave would be much of a music fan.
Okay: Shockwave was the gun and Soundwave was the cassette player, right? I always wondered why they both shrank so much when they transformed. Where, oh where have the good cartoons like those gone. Anyone remember M.A.S.K.? Another classic...
>I don't get offended easily, but no one calls me a hypocrite without >getting away with it.
So I got away with it? Is that what you're saying? :) (j/k)
>You may no longer reach me at this E-Mail address. I've changed and >modified my last name to Mescino. The new address is f.mescino@som.com.
Yeah, well I changed it back, so you're stuck here. FOREVER!!! :P -- ____________________________________________________________ Andrew Forcier a.k.a. Buck Stodgers --List Manager-- The Peppermint Tribe, the Saigon Kick Mailing List For info, check out: http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~rfm5570/ or send e-mail inquiries to: andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com
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Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 10:39:10 -0400 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: KTS boots Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970501103910.00bde870@pophost.fore.com>
A >>Another tidbit I haven't seen posted here before: KTS sends the CDs >>and packaging, but to save postage, they do not send jewel boxes! > >They don't tell you this when you order and then you get this little >envelope and think "awwwwww, shit!" but there are no Jewel cases >in it. That can be a pain in the ass, but cases are known to break >during shipping.
This is where I don't understand some people. Sometimes I'll trade a bunch of tapes, and when they get to their destination, the cases are all cracked up. The immediate response is, "I knew we shouldn't have sent the cases, because now I have all these cases that are useless." I don't get this. You should be thankful the cases were there to take the impact. Obviously the Post Office excercises total disregard for the mail, and in the event that damage is inflicted, I would much rather it be to the cases than to the tapes. It might be different with KTS, because I don't know what kind of packaging they're using. My experience is with padded envelopes.
My nickel's worth, KAI
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Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:29:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Cygnus <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: the overall effectiveness of the pulsing waves of music Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970501101013.13054A-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
> Ernie wrote: > Most bands usually have one guy who's the main songwriter and arranger > (Harris in Maiden, for example) and of course there's the infamous > producer.
I know what you mean. It does seem that a lot of bands have one or two primary songwriters, which is fine. I just like how DT is able to mesh together each band members' talents and ideas into one song. I am surprised that they are not at each other's throats by now. I wonder if one of them has ever started yelling, "NO, YOU'RE MESSING UP MY ARRANGEMENT!!!"
> > /me predicts it will only cause one reply, if any. > > Done and done.
and I mean done :)
> Anton Max said: > But in general, people have lives, and to appreciate "artistic music" > you often need to pay it direct attention, which requires time and effort.
So true. I suppose that is why none of the people in my building appreciate the music I listen to. They only hear it in the background and cannot really grasp a hold of what it is about. They all think I am crazy just for putting meaning on the music I listen to. They think music is only for entertainment. But that seems to be the majority opinion out there in the world. At least we are the chosen ones who are free from this somewhat limiting factor.
-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_- | ***Rob*** "If Balance is the key then maybe | | rctaylor@uiuc.edu we'll see a future understanding" | | -Queensryche | -~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-
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Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 12:21:31 -0400 From: Buck Stodgers <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: OZZFEST Message-ID: <199705011620.AA05055@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello, Okay, since I know all you folks are the helpful types, and since we're used to this petitioning thing as well, how would you all like to help me out? You see, for those of you who didn't know, the OZZFEST is not being allowed to play in New Jersey, by the order of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority. Through a bit of research, I managed to find the e-mail address for the Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the NJSEA and I think it would do some good for him to know how we fans felt. Now you may be saying to yourself: "I don't live in Jersey, why should I care?" You should care for the simple fact that your state could be next. This started in Tennessee, and I never thought a ban would be effected in Jersey. Now you may be saying to yourself: "I don't like any of those bands, why should I care?" You should care for the simple fact that DT might be next for all we know. Maybe your state governor would take offense to: "Sex is death, death is sex. It says it right here on my crucifix." These days one can never tell to whose side the politicians will jump. So I ask you to do one simple thing, drop Hal Handel of the NJSEA a little e-mail telling him exactly what you think, whether you agree with them, or disagree. Please remember to use the most polite terms possible. Here is Hal's address:
And cc: the following addresses:
CHode@njsea.com,JGagliano@njsea.com,CMcErlean@njsea.com,VBennett@njsea.com,JBlinder@njsea.com,PKerrison@njsea.com
That, folks, is their entire executive board. Since we have heard their decree on the news and in the papers, I think it's time we were sure that they heard our views. My thanks for any input you may have. -- ____________________________________________________________ Andrew Forcier a.k.a. Buck Stodgers --List Manager-- The Peppermint Tribe, the Saigon Kick Mailing List For info, check out: http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~rfm5570/ or send e-mail inquiries to: andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com
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Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:26:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525 Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.970501100059.953A-100000@enteract.com>
> How would one go about acquiring the "Subconscious" CD? is it still > around anywhere? What about copies of "Acoustic Dreams"? Thanks.
An original? Sell your first born.
> selling my Ibanez JMP100 (The limited edition model, comes with a > certificate signed by John Petrucci!!!) As far as I know there was only
Couldn't you just like... go into prostitution instead? How about Arms dealing. There's gotta be something you can do to make ends meet without selling your JPM!
> After a long time of listening to DT, I noticed that other music that I > liked b4, didn't mean that much to me...and i figured out why. There's no > point of listening to them.
Could you elaborate on why there's no point? Just curious.
> IMO, a song should have a reason for you to listen to it till the end.
Agreed.
> That' what i'm talking about. And it's present also in many 3-chord > songs.. it's all about good arraniging.
So... then I take it the things you were listening to previously were poorly arranged?
> In fact there are certain prog groups that miss this point completely. > All their songs are basically verse-chorus-verse-chorus-long > instrumental section to show their unbelievable skills-chorus.
Throw us some examples of this in action. Is this different than what DT does?
> In such caases, you could replace the instum. section w/ a simple, in > would have about the same effect.
Well, speaking from my own perspective, it would not accomplish the same thing. In Prog Metal, generally I want to hear balls to the walls playing. Of course not everything I listen to is prog metal, and not even all of what DT plays is prog metal. I don't like the concept of shortening solos and cutting out instrumental parts. It's a big reason for me to listen to an album. I have some cds on which the vocals are so abrasive and displeasing, (Cacophony, for example) or the lyrics are so corny (Elegy, for example) that I'm counting seconds until the good stuff (i.e. solo) begins.
> 2 comment: It seems to me, that what sets DT aside from other bands is that, > instead of being formed of a singer, a guitarist, a drummer, etc..., they > are five MUSICIANS.
Okay... but I would make the case that in most of the bands that I listen to (since I can only speak for myself here), all of the members ate musicians. In that, DT is no different from them. And I listen to a LOT of music.
> It's that all members of DT (or at least most, I don't know 'em > personally) have a generally good sense of songwriting and arrangement > (which kinda ties in w/ my first comment).
Hmm. Okay... but I would make the case that in most of the bands that I listen to (since I can only speak for myself here), most of the members are musicians, and take part in the songwriting and arranging. In that respect, DT is no different than most of these bands. And I listen to a LOT of music.
> And one can see how they have matured w/ that ( and they're own > individual skills) with time. Most bands usually have one guy who's the main > songwriter and arranger (Harris in Maiden, for example)
I think that you can see how any band evolves, when you look at the span of a few albums. There aren't too many bands that are completely stagnant in every way. And for every band that has a Steve Harris figure writing every piece of music by himself, I think there's one that makes a communicative effort to write as a band.
> As a counterexample (not a perfect counterexample, because closer > listening reveals that what I am about to say is not true) FW's "Inside > Out" sort of sounds the same from beginning to end.
Yeah... honestly, I think that every song on that album is different and fantastic. I don't know where people are coming from, saying that the album is the same, beginning to end. > Me, I don't mind a lot of the stuff that's popular, but I don't buy much > of it because once I've heard it, I've heard it, and there's rarely a need > to own it.
> No, I don't think ACOS would fit that. Every verse is different, every > instrumental section is different, and there isn't really a chorus.
But it has the -really long instrumental to show their awesome skills section-. :)
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Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 13:00:07 EDT From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: KTS boots Message-ID: <19970501.100148.8638.11.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
> "I knew we shouldn't have sent the cases, because now I have >all these cases that are useless." I don't get this. >You should be thankful the cases were there to take the impact. >Obviously the Post Office excercises total disregard for the mail, >and in the event that damage is inflicted, I would much rather it >be to the cases than to the tapes.
I've gotten threee shipments from KTS and they've never come with cases and the discs have never had any damage to them. As far as with tape cases. A lot of people just throw the tapes in whatever they use to mail them out and then don't try to secure them in any way. So during mailing the tapes bounce around and crash into each other which is why the cases break. I always tape the cases together if possible to keep the cases from breaking.
>It might be different with KTS, because I don't know what >kind of packaging they're using. My experience is with padded >envelopes.
They use padded envelopes.
Scott
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Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:19:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: EJ concert review Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970501131340.1625D-100000@bdmserver>
Saw Eric Johnson last night at Bohagers in Baltimore.
There was only 200 tickets sold. Doors opened at 8pm. The opening band Drving Blind came on at about 9:15. Unfortunately for them their drummer had bolted back to Canada some time during the tour. Yep, Driving Blind is touring with Eric Johnson. Driving Blind wasn't too bad. They are a bluesy band with great harmony vocals at times.
AT about 10:15 EJ came on. The first 2 songs sounded horrible but luckily they fixed the sound so the rest of the show sounded great. I only have Venus Isle and he only played a few songs off of that. EJ is amazing.
I think DT will probably have to play there if they come to Baltimore since Hammerjacks is closed (and more than likely to become a parking lot for the O's and Ravens). Bohagers will sell 800 tickets to a show (even though they are only supposed to hold 426).
Next concert: Crack The Sky May 31.
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |=======================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:08:10 -0500 (CDT) From: ytse_jammer@mail.utexas.edu (Apolonio F Santos Jr.) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525...Wow!!! Message-ID: <199705012008.PAA17801@mail.utexas.edu>
> YTSEJAM Digest 2525 > Dude, Anton Max, you fuckin rock. That post blew me away! And I thought the jam sucked... :)
"Peace Love Recycle!"
Polo
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Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:14:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: wonder why? Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.970501150243.5568D-100000@stargate.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Ok, I'm done with final exams on which i believe i did poorly, I'll be a graduated man saturday, and I'm listening too APSOG........wonder which factor has got me the most depressed?
used record stores are a godsend, say I...... found the latest Magellan, LaTM (german) and the MC genesis tribute (supper's ready) at one such business........Didn't buy 'em, but if someone wants 'em for $10-11 (including s+h), i might be persuaded to go back there and check if they're still available.....
I did get a deep purple double CD.....stuff from Ritchie Blackmore's last two concerts the 1st time he quit the purple.....a package called "Mk III--the final concerts".....really detailed liner notes, gives a cool little history of what was going on around the time Blackmore went off to form rainbow......interesting stuff
partha
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2526 **************************
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