YTSEJAM Digest 2528
Today's Topics:
1) Response from Francesco Mescino (francesco.b.meschino@som.com)
by "Francesco Mescino" <francesco.b.meschino@som.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2526
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2527
by buster@ee.net
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2527
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
6) story
by Sebastjan Videc <Sebastjan.Videc@uni-mb.si>
7) TDOW Shipping and PT shipping
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
8) NFDTC: New Conception!
by Yanos Aldron <yanos@netwiz.net>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2527
by jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling)
10) umm KTS.... as good a subject as any...
by Robb Muise <cypher@gate.net>
11) Marillion concert
by Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525
by Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2526
by Michael Lafser <mlafser@mail.win.org>
14) "Teedledy-tweedledy scales"
by "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
15) Re: umm KTS....
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 00:44:40 Central Daylight Time
From: "Francesco Mescino" <francesco.b.meschino@som.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Response from Francesco Mescino (francesco.b.meschino@som.com)
Message-ID: <19970502004440.553943f3.in@mail.som.com>
You may no longer reach me at this E-Mail address.
I've changed and modified my last name to Mescino.
The new address is f.mescino@som.com.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 03:11:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970502030912.12929B-100000@unix18.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Thu, 1 May 1997, Ernesto Schnack wrote:
> >This statement sort of implies that Ernie is limiting himself because he's
> >a prog fan, which misses the point slightly. He doesn't like the simpler
> >stuff not because he feels obligated to by being any category of fan, but
> >because it just doesn't interest him.
>
>
> nononononono, I'm not saying I don't like 3-chord... I like a lot of them
> actually. That's the last thing I worry about when I'm listening to a song.
> I don't even consider myself a prog fan, actually. I was trying to say that
> a song can move forward, and yet be very simple.
You're right, I should've said "stuff that doesn't move forward", rather
than "simpler stuff."
-maximilian
Anton Max
MadMax+@cmu.edu
http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 03:41:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2526
Message-ID: <199705020741.DAA25887@freenet2.carleton.ca>
Anton Max said:
>On Thu, 1 May 1997, Gordon McFee wrote:
>Petrucci and Moore were the main lyricists, but as I understand it the way
>DT writes songs really tends to be a whole band sort of thing. Someone
>will come up with a riff and they'll jam on it a whole lot and see what
>happens, record it all and go back to pick out the cool stuff later.
Esp. for the Images and Words album, I seem to remember hearing
tha Take The Time was done all as a group.. as for Awake, well I doubt
Space Dye Vest was much of a group effort (it's just too Kevin) but I
suppose that holds.
>> So would Metropolis... it's even more obvious there. I wish DT
>> would do a remix of the song that cut out the instrumental jam in the
>> middle. Maybe if they ever released Met.Pt. 2 they will play them together
>> live -- and have to truncate the first part to fit it in the concert :).
>Argh! (okay max, calm down, people have differen opinions, people have
>different opinions :) For me, the instrumental is absolutely vital to the
>song.
Heh. I just find it very tangential, and I listen to a lot of long
music (not that it makes me any more right than you, just that I think I
can tell the difference between helpful and not helpful). Maybe it doesn't
have to be totally cut, but the funky little stop-time stuff has to go :).
I guess I'd just be a little more vigorous with the cutter if I made
production choices for the band (thank god I don't I guess).. ie the Take
The Time instrumental could be shortened by a good half a minute without
the song losing anything. Now this certainly isn't on the level of Yes'
Tales From Topographic Oceans (which could have used about 30 minute of
chopping) but I still find it enough to mention ..
>Vauxdvihl). Shadow Gallery might fit this description somewhat, although I
>do sense movement in their songs, even if I don't often particularly like
>them (though there is some really good stuff on carved in stone). Tool is
>a good example of a band that doesn't do all the wild stuff but definitely
>moves from point A to point B.
Haven't listened to much Tool. Shadow Gallery's songs usually move
along pretty well actually, they avoid formula pretty well.
>Well, those two songs are awfully repetitive, but they do progress. Battle
>of Evermore mostly lyrically (the prominent vocals help), and Achilles'
>has several different parts that repeat in different orders...I
>think...that song sort of transcends time for me. I never know where I am
>in it when it's playing and I usually don't care.
I guess.. I was talking about musical movement.. I seem to
remember (not listening to them at the moment) that Battle is pretty much
the same general melody over and over and Achilles starts out slow, goes
into the long fast lyric jam, a long fast instrumental, back into the same
fast lyric jam, the same fast instrumental and then ends with the same
slow part. At least they have symmetry :). I guess we'll have to mildly
disagree on this, I love the songs but I find they stay in the same
place.. I guess to me it's not so important that it HAS to move anywhere..
I mean Queensryche's last few albums (not counting Hear cuz I've only had
it one day so I won't say anything yet) consist of the exact same
formula.. verse, chorus structure, an instrumental, the final chorus and
that's a wrap with little exception. But I still think they're great.. I
just wouldn't argue that they go anywhere.. (although the albums as a
whole usually do).
As a side note, the lyrics to BoE ARE pretty damned good.
>not even all of what DT plays is prog metal. I don't like the concept of
>shortening solos and cutting out instrumental parts. It's a big reason
>for me to listen to an album. I have some cds on which the vocals are so
>abrasive and displeasing, (Cacophony, for example) or the lyrics are so
>corny (Elegy, for example) that I'm counting seconds until the good stuff
>(i.e. solo) begins.
A long musical passage can serve a song well or can be tangential
and distracting. For examples of the former, I'd say the Apocalypse in 9/8
section of Supper's Ready by Genesis (excellent buildup), the fantastic
solo in Leap Of Faith by iQ, the mega solo in A Change of Seasons
(original version before the "I'm much wiser now" part) by some other
band..
For the latter, I'd say Metropolis. Big time :). But that's just
my ignorant observation. Yes likes to do this a lot too, they managed to
stretch "Ritual" out to 28 minutes live by inflating it with extra noise
that didn't serve much purpose other than give Anderson time to rest his
throat.
> But it has the -really long instrumental to show their awesome
>skills section-. :)
I find the really long instrumental getting close to the end is
fantastic for the buildup though. It really gets you pumped for the end
. well it would if Labrie didn't sound so funny singing "I'm much wiser
now, a lifetime of memories.." in that super-high voice. (Talking the
Subconscious show).. just cracks me up. He sounds more like a kid than an
old man..
As a study in contrasts, the Metropolis doesn't really build for
me at all.. I find the song starts to culminate to the climax when the
lyrics START again and not before.. ie the two soft lines and then the
band comes in hard and gets back to the song.. which is how it feels
because it seems like they've been playing something out of a medley for
the last two minutes.
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 03:46:37 -0400 From: buster@ee.net To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2527 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970502074637.0069520c@ee.net>
>just have to be done right. For example in Met., they seem to be losing it >towards the end w/ all the dissonant crazy shit, and then they go into this >long climb in unison, and then you're like, shit, how long are they gonna >keep going up, HOLY FUCK! and then all of sudden: breakdown into a nice >relaxed riff..aaaaaaahhh. That's exacxtly the kinda stuff i'm talking about. >I remember a friend once told me he couldn't listen to that part when he was >driving, because he'd probably crash:)
hehehehe!! YES! I love to drive fast with Metropolis blaring from the CD player in my car, and I've caught myself doing about 100 MPH while reaching the peak of that very instrumental, and actually yelling out loud "FUCKING INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!"
The combination of a good cd player & speakers, the high speeds, open highway in the dark of night with not many people on the road, and Dream Theater playing, just really gets it for me :) My girlfriend has been in the car once or twice when this has happened and she has suggested that I see a doctor soon. (and boy was it tough getting embedded fingernails out of the armrest of my car door! heheh! WOOHOO!)
buster http://users1.ee.net/buster
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 03:51:47 -0400 (EDT) From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2527 Message-ID: <199705020751.DAA26233@freenet2.carleton.ca>
>From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
>>>are certain prog groups that miss this point completely. All their songs are >>>basically verse-chorus-verse-chorus-long instrumental section to show their >>>unbelievable skills-chorus. >> Could you please give a few examples? >Right now I can only thik of 'Cliffhanger' by Shadow Gallery. It's pretty >much a standard tune, and then all of a sudden they go into this section w/ >all this teedledy-tweedledy scales, and then come back the original >repetitive theme, with actually pulling the listener towards it... they just >fall back on it as if it were an obligation. I'm not saying that SG do this >all the time... that's just ONE song, and I can't think of any other >examples at the moment...
Uhm... doesn't Cliffhanger go instrumental, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, instrumental, end? The lyrics stop about halfway into the song. I don't find this one as tangential as Metropolis but yeah, you have a point, when you listen to something and you say "Gee, this isn't necessary" it kind of makes you wonder what the motives were for putting it on the album.
>> So would Metropolis... it's even more obvious there. > >I don't agree. I didn't say I didn't like those long crazy sections... they >just have to be done right. For example in Met., they seem to be losing it >towards the end w/ all the dissonant crazy shit, and then they go into this >long climb in unison, and then you're like, shit, how long are they gonna >keep going up, HOLY FUCK! and then all of sudden: breakdown into a nice >relaxed riff..aaaaaaahhh. That's exacxtly the kinda stuff i'm talking about. >I remember a friend once told me he couldn't listen to that part when he was >driving, because he'd probably crash:)
Heh. Well there's the problem.. I don't think it's done right. Metropolis instrumental sounds like a different song .. I'm relieved when they finally remember what they are playing again. I don't mind a long instrumental, even if it seems to be around to show off skills, as long as it makes sense to have it in a song. If a jam doesn't belong in a song, put it as a stand-alone instrumental (Ytsejam, La Villa, YYZ, Wuthering Heights suite from Genesis) or don't use it.. I think I wouldn't mind the instrumental as much if it were a DIFFERENT instrumental.. I just don't like the one they have in there right now.
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 10:37:48 +0200 From: Sebastjan Videc <Sebastjan.Videc@uni-mb.si> To: "No religion, just music and DT" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: story Message-ID: <3369A7DC.A8E70E70@uni-mb.si>
> > A teacher was helping her student with a math problem. She recited the > following story : > > "There are three birds sitting on a wire. A gunman shoots one of the > birds. How many birds are left on the wire?" The boy pauses. "None," > he replied thoughtfully. > > "No, no, no. Let's try again," the teacher says patiently. She holds > up three fingers. "There are three birds sitting on a wire. A gunman > shoots one," she puts down one finger, "how many birds are left on the > wire?" > > "None," the boy says with authority. > The teacher sighs. "Tell me how you came up with that." "It's simple," > says the boy, "after the gunman shot one bird, he scared the other two > away." "Well," she says, "it's not technically correct, but I like the > way you think." > > "Okay," chimes the boy, "now let me ask you a question. There are > three women sitting on a bench eating popsicles. One woman is > licking the popsicle, one woman is biting the popsicle, and one is > sucking the popsicle. Which one is married?" he asked innocently. > > The teacher looked at the boy's angelic face and writhed in agony, > turning three shades of red. "C'mon," the boy said impatiently, > "one is licking the popsicle, one is biting, and one is sucking. > Which one is married?" > > "Well," she gulped and in a barely audible whisper replied," the one > who's sucking?" > > "No," he says with surprise, "the one with the wedding ring on. But I > like the way you think." >
An excellent one. -- Sebastjan Videc aka StDeVil on IRC Sebastjan.Videc@uni-mb.si http://tferi4.uni-mb.si/~videc
<<- And from an Ivory tower hears her call Let the light surround you!!! ->> Kevin Moore
<<- Oh my God, it's full of stars ->> 2001 - A space Oddysey
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:34:00 -0700 (MST) From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: TDOW Shipping and PT shipping Message-ID: <199705020834.BAA19028@goodguy.goodnet.com>
Hi all.
Just wanted to let you all know that Darkest of Winters is prepped and ready to begin shipping... as soon as the print shop delivers the liners. :) (Aw man, not this again!!!) It will ship concurrently with Precious Things, which is already shipping at this time.
Someone was asking why the numbers seem so unordered in shipping. I ship in postmark order from the original envelopes, so your wait is always directly linked to when you bought the disc. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best I can do while I continue to increase the efficiency of my li'l homebrew operation. Hopefully all of the PT discs will be shipped by the time VS shipping gets really heavy, and that way I can start the E2E shipping earlier than... July. :)
Anyway, I just wanted to let y'all know I'm not ignoring you, and email volume has been staggering as usual lately, so hang tight and I'll address each and every question, reservation, and so forth that has been sent my way. :) I've been unbelievably busy lately doing... this. Yep, CDs. It's been a light and easy week at Equinox so I've spent this week with my wife converting our orders from envelopes in a filing cabinet into an actual database. My father-in-law donated his old 486 to the cause (he bought a dick-hardening MMX 200 machine) so things should chug along a little faster, by and by, and a hell of a lot less processing time.
Also, turnaround on all WDATU, SFAM, and CM orders is instantaneous at this point. That's how much I've streamlined operations for the in-stock material. If I get an order for any of those, it's shipped within mere days of receipt... or less. So my work is by no means done, but at least I'm tangibly getting somewhere now. And receiving all the confirmations from around the world of PT discs arriving safe and sound and all the compliments are really gratifying types of mail to read.
Take care all!
- Mike Bahr - durnik@goodnet.com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 02:51:53 -0700 From: Yanos Aldron <yanos@netwiz.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: NFDTC: New Conception! Message-ID: <3369B939.517EE58C@netwiz.net>
I cant ever remember reading about Conception of the Jam with the exception of tour rumors so I dont know how many of you care. Have you heard it? Whats up with Fates and Conception going semi-industrotechno like...dont get me wrong, I really like it but what a shock! I have a simplistic review of ALL their albums (except for In Your Multitude because I'm too tired to finish it) on my site if anyone cares to look, not to mention an entire song file to listen to from the new album FLOW. If you go there, be forewarned, my sanctuary is still under construction...the interesting material is about 98% complete so you shouldnt run into much trouble. I will be putting up more song files and adding a few other things this weekend so bare with me.
cheers-
yanos
Yanos' Sanctuary is at:
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 02:58:36 -0700 From: jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Shane Liebling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2527 Message-ID: <v02130500af8f6a8acced@[128.32.100.59]>
>Nope, "Silent Bob" was in "Clerks" and "Mallrats". He only had one >speaking line in the end of each. That's how he got the name "Silent >Bob". In "Chasing Amy" he has a decent size speaking part, not just one >line, so maybe his name should be altered. He is also the guy who wrote >and directed all three movies.
I was going to quickly reply to this by saying "that isn't Kevin Smith, someone else plays Silent Bob!" But I did a little homework first and checked it out, and much to my surprise, yup Kevin Smith does play Silent Bob. Cool bit of info! In case you didn't know Kevin Smith is the writer/director of all three of the New Jersey Trilogy (as he calls them) movies.
-Shane
______________________________________________________________________________ I Shane Liebling I I was told there's a miracle for each I I jusenkyo@uclink4.berkeley.edu I day that I try. I was told there's a I I http://www.earthlink.net/~mariachi I new love that's born for each one I I CAA Tweeker & Ytsejammer I that has died... Love is the Dance of I I Member of A.M.M.O. since 1997 I Eternity."Metropolis" - Dream Theater I ______________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 20:09:27 -0400 From: Robb Muise <cypher@gate.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: umm KTS.... as good a subject as any... Message-ID: <336A8237.2356@gate.net>
Blah.. Tis Cypher here.... Yea i know ya have no idea who i am but that will change =] .. SOmeone get offa yer butt and tell me where ya'all (florida influence) are getting these KTS bootlegs and other stuph.... heh i love that newbie feeling =] So just lemme know where ya'all are ordering this stuph from so i can partake in the veritable cornocopia of muzak..
Peace, Love, and Granola. Cypher http://www.gate.net/~cypher
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 14:28:20 +0100 (BST) From: Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk> To: YtseJam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Marillion concert Message-ID: <Marcel-1.08-0502132820-313rZWN@mor.apsoft.co.uk>
I saw Marillion live the other day.
What an awesome concert! The performance was so energetic and vibrant, and the sound quality couldn't have been better. They played mostly recent stuff, including the best bits from This Strange Engine.
All five band members really looked like they were having fun, and it was a very good-humoured and entertaining evening. They played three encores.
This is probably my second-favourite concert ever (the first being Dream Theater in Amsterdam last month)!
Graham
-- Graham Borland Email : gborland@apsoft.co.uk WWW : http://www.apsoft.co.uk Alternative Publishing Ltd Tel : 0141 418 0881 30 Clyde Place, Glasgow G5 8AQ Fax : 0141 418 0889
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Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 13:58:29 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2525 Message-ID: <3369F305.4487@mailstorm.dot.gov>
> From: Gordon
> I'm sure a large part of the reason Moore left after Awake > was because of Petrucci's growing influence on the band, noting the > heavier guitar sound on the album and comparing their song credits,
I would think that although JP has certainly written a lot of the lyrics, the musical shtuff comes pretty much from a team effort.
I noticed that the keys in the beginning of Scarred (Can't hear it, we fear it) have an industrial sound to them. It seems KM was already heading in that direction. The parts in The Mirror where he's jamming note for note with JP kick some major ass, though!
> Maybe if they ever released Met.Pt. 2 they will play them together > live -- and have to truncate the first part to fit it in the concert :).
How about finishing a show with Met. 1 and do Met. 2 for the encore? Call it the "Sweat Set" :)
> From: Anton
> I think Petrucci's influence grew mainly to > fill the void that Kevin's lack of interest was creating.
Apparently :) I was just listening to Lie when I read that. One of my favorite parts of the song, too!!!
Regarding the Zep songs, I suggest "For Your Life" as a song which moves from point a to b, grooves pretty well, and has that trademark Zep sound.
Is it possible, what with the variety of sounds that DT puts out, for them to come up with a trademark type of sound?
Regards,
Jon *------------*------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*------------------------*--------------*
I believe that what I'm feeling Changes how the world appears - Rush
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:07:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Lafser <mlafser@mail.win.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2526 Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970502120557.3982A-100000@winc0>
this is about the ozzfest it is very stupid that it is banned in new jersey ill be sure to email those people stupid people should realize that it is just entertainment and music if you dont like it or find it offensive, then dont go no one is forcing anyone to go i could go on and on but i figure this is enough to make my point see ya christoph
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Date: 02 May 97 10:53:03 -0700 From: "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: "Teedledy-tweedledy scales" Message-ID: <199705021755.KAA07298@mailseq4.us.oracle.com>
someone wrote: >Right now I can only thik of 'Cliffhanger' by Shadow Gallery. It's pretty >much a standard tune, and then all of a sudden they go into this section w/ >all this teedledy-tweedledy scales I frequently hear people make comments like this, where any instrumental section involving solos and/or complex rhythms or scales is called one of those "teedledy tweedledy scale sections" (not necessarily always spelled that way!)... I don't expect everyone to have a music theory background, but please remember that *almost* everything you hear in a song (except percussion, usually) is based on scales. The singer is singing diatonically (in the scale/key), the chords work around given scales, etc.. Sure, there are occasional non-diatonic notes which can add color if used correctly, and scales can change throughout a piece. My point here is that those "teedledy" sections are not the only "scalar" parts of the song. If you broke apart the melody lines that most singers use, you'd find ridiculously simple scalar lines (with lots of little vocal nuances that are extremely difficult to notate). The instrumental sections usually present the scalar stuff more directly, often faster, and with more complicated rhythms and chords - there also tends to be a more rapid key movement. The challenge in such a section is to present the notes of the scales in an *interesting* way, by varying the order of the scalar notes and/or the rhythms, nuances of playing, modulations, etc... Concerning "Cliffhanger" - I love that song for the "teedledy" part. The guitar starts playing some muted triplets, and suddenly the whole tune sounds (to me) like it's kicking ass. Sure, these notes are scalar, but so is the rest of the song (see above diatribe), and it's not like he's playing "do-re-me-fa-so-la-ti-do".. he's really mixing up the notes. This isn't meant as a flame, just as a point of clarification for people who like to dismiss the "virtuosic" sections of many songs as "another of those teedledy parts".. cheers, -Neil. (defender of all things 'teedledy' ;)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 13:54:51 EDT From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: umm KTS.... Message-ID: <19970502.105635.8686.1.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
On Fri, 2 May 1997 05:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Robb Muise <cypher@gate.net> writes: >Blah.. Tis Cypher here.... Yea i know ya have no idea who i am but >that >will change =] .. SOmeone get offa yer butt and tell me where ya'all >(florida influence) are getting these KTS bootlegs and other stuph.... >heh i love that newbie feeling =] So just lemme know where ya'all are >ordering this stuph from so i can partake in the veritable cornocopia >of >muzak..
www.kts.it
that'sthe url and you can order from there. All the info is on the site.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2528 **************************
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