YTSEJAM Digest 2579
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2577
by Broccoli23@aol.com
2) veterans
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
3) Re: WTF???
by Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
4) Rap and roll
by Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
5) Re: veterans
by mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM
6) Non-DT content...
by Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
7) YTSEJAM digest 2578
by <09422587@mail3.dlsu.edu.ph>
8) The tools exist/Rap/Tesla/qR/Blind Melon
by Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
9) New DT predictions
by Phil Carter <carter@negia.net>
10) singing
by Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
11) Various and sundry items...
by andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com
12)
by
13) Production value.
by "Thomas Warnick" <twarnick@nsc.utah.edu>
14) DT Record Label
by chinton@walldata.com (Hinton, Chris)
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:36:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Broccoli23@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2577
Message-ID: <970522103559_1042488195@emout06.mail.aol.com>
Please take me off of this list!!
Immediate action will be taken if I am not removed from this list.
thank you
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:52:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: veterans
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970522104946.3541C-100000@bdmserver>
Mike Bahr wrote:
> Say, is anyone still on here that was on here before I was? I
>believe I subscribed in October 1993.
I got on the list shortly after the first one started up. At the time
there was a lot of DT content in alt.rock-n-roll.metal.progressive so I
didn't join. But the DT content dropped so I signed up for the list.
Weren't you the one who did the Rush Montage video or was that someone else?
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com |
|=======================================================================|
| "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater |
| "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:55:02 +0200
From: Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: WTF???
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970522165502.005fc5c8@thn.htu.se>
Hi all
long time, no see
At 21:49 1997-05-20 -0700, some wrote:
>Just catching up on some Jams I missed when this shit caught my=
attention...
> Has anyone REALLY listened to WDADU? Dominici's sounds like a faggot!=20
> Sure, there may be better singers out there, but as fans...can we not
respect
>the decision that was made 5 years ago by 4 extremely talented musicians in
>Mike, JP,
>JM & Kevin?=20
IF I am recalling correctly, those 4 talented musicians did sign him (
CHARLIE DOMINICI) up for an album (WDADU).
So stop bashing. He's a part of DT, just as Kev.
And now I blame DT for spoiling 4 of my best years!
Yepp, I'm listening to aPSog, and I'm sure that this is the music KM would
like to do. Those MMTBH-songs were as good as he could do with just his
keybord. The little influence he had on AWAKE is a shame.
And if the others in DT wasn't striving for a TOP-40 hit, or glory, he
would still be with them, but since they are moving in different directions
he left.
My biggest concern about DT is that they want to become popular! For what
reason? They have here thousands of die-hard fans, what more do they want?
Money ? Frankly, it looks like that. I don't want them to turn inte a new
Metallica or Scorpions, even tough I can't blame them.
So, conclusion, until other is proved, the new FateZ outdo the new DT !!!
take care // henrik
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Henrik Gustafsson
H=F6gskolan Trollh=E4ttan/Uddevalla
+46 (0)520 - 47 50 49 /fax -99
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:57:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Rap and roll
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.970522101754.13629P-100000@joust.rs.itd.umich.edu>
> I hate it when people refer to what rappers do as singing. Are they
> dumb or something? I don't hear any musical notes. I also hate that
> rappers become famous for doing something that almost anyone else can do
> (unless you stutter or something,
and me, even as I listen to my Pantera CDs, have an extremely hard time
characterizing what Anselmo's doing as singing......and i hear black
metal is even worse......
Have you ever tried to rap, even in jest? There IS a certain skill to the
delivery....."MOST PEOPLE" sound dumb as hell trying to rap
> Also, what the fuck are rappers thinking when they say
> stupid shit before every single song? Do they think people want to hear
> them say crap like "this is the real shit, you know what I'm sayin?
> Keepin it real. Blah blah blah" before every single song, or anytime
Ummm, yeah, i think the people who buy the CD probably want to hear them
say that stuff, in front of every song, if necessary......
Why do I find it sad that just because you don't "GET" rap, you feel a
need bash it in these terms......
And to the original anti-rap post maker.....i realize it was one of those
frustrated rants thingies, but there are as many different forms of rap
out there as there are subgenres of prog rock......it ain't only about
bitches and hoes anymore, toto
scenario
you're defending prog rock as being wonderfully diverse
some rap fan comes along and starts talking about how many different
styles of rap there are.....
what do you do? if you start talking about how all rap sounds the
same.....how the hell do you explain the difference between dream theater
and fates warning to that rap fan?
I don't really like rap, but I can tolerate it (and respect it as a
art form!) without having to resort to mindless rants like we've seen the
past coupla days.....same as alexis (is that your name or just an e-mail
.sig) I got a brother who's heavily into rap.....but I made a
point to look into what he's been listening to over the past few
years--actually, we made a deal, i gotten him to listen to and tolerate
Rush and DT, etc......and in the end, it's a whole lot better than me and
him screaming at each other about how the other's music totally sucks, has
no redeeming value and all sounds exactly the same..........
partha
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 08:30:26 PST8
From: mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: veterans
Message-ID: <9704228643.AA864315466@CCGATE.HAC.COM>
Mike Bahr wrote:
> Say, is anyone still on here that was on here before I was? I
>believe I subscribed in October 1993.
Hmmm... I know I signed up early in the year (February, I think) of
the first YtseConvention... What year was that? 1993 or 1994?
~Michael Kizer -- Computer Sciences Corporation (Tucson, AZ)
Email: mrkizer@ccgate.hac.com / mkizer@goodnet.com / fugazi@weirdness.com
URL: http://www.goodnet.com/~mkizer
Dream Theater Song Book -^- Fates Warning Island in the Stream
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:48:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Non-DT content...
Message-ID: <199705221548.LAA14573@clipper.hq.tis.com>
>
> The reason there's no DT content right now is because there's
>fucking nothing to talk about with regard to DT right now!! Duh! Once
>something significant happens, we'll have tons of shit to post about.
>Until that time happens, there's nothing wrong with related band posts,
>related topic posts, and even general friendly back'n'forth.
>
I agree. Some of my favorite and most rewarding parts of the Jam
have come from NDTC. :-) I love learning about new bands and such! It's
really just not that hard to skip over what you don't want to read. Every
mailing list cycles through those kinds of problems and you eventually just
have to learn how to deal with it in your own way. Fortunately, the Ytsejam
still has something of a community -- a sense of caring -- thanks to people
like Mike Bahr who put in the extra effort. Without the community and
without the diverse non-DT content that comes from it, I don't know if
I'd still be here. The Ytsejam is a community -- DT being the core that
initially joins us. But, it's our diversity that lends us strength and makes
it an interesting place to be. We all learn and grow from the various
viewpoints and knowledge that are passed around here. Of course, the
diversity also leads to conflict, but that's also part of learning and
growth as we learn to handle it.
> Any of you veterans ever think to yourself, "Why do I try?"...
>
Yup... But sometimes I just do it anyway. ;-)
> Say, is anyone still on here that was on here before I was? I
>believe I subscribed in October 1993.
>
Well, I first joined in the spring of 1993 I believe, around
issue 60..... :-) I'm sure there are a few even 'older' jammers left
though...
Steve
schew@tis.com
-- Any Babylon 5 fans out there? I'm selling some B5 trading cards and pre-selling the new B5: Special Edition cards on my web page: http://www.clark.net/pub/iz/cards.html Steve Chew -- invictus@interzone.com------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 97 23:54:57 GMT+8 From: <09422587@mail3.dlsu.edu.ph> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: YTSEJAM digest 2578 Message-ID: <1A5E0C2382@mail3.dlsu.edu.ph>
This user has his/her e-mail account disabled because it is our school's SUMMER break.
In case the student is enrolled in one of our summer classes, then the account is disabled for one of the following reasons:
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NOTE: The user won't get or receive a copy of this e-mail.
Should you need assistance, please mail helpdesk@mail.dlsu.edu.ph
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:04:42 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The tools exist/Rap/Tesla/qR/Blind Melon Message-ID: <33846E9A.1E4D@mailstorm.dot.gov>
> What gets annoying in ACK mode (and most likely in digest > mode also) are messages like this: > [annoying stuff deleted]
I'm not in ACK mode, but I think a possible solution is to more strictly observe the Subject: line when replying. Netscape, at least, gives you the ability to remove entire threads.
This way, everyone's happy. Those who must do it and those who can't stand it. Who am I do determine what value someone else holds to a particular post?
Now for those of us in digest mode, we'll still keep "sufferring" with the old <page down> key. Deep breaths, big deep breaths....
> But, I must admit it's fun to listen to sometimes. And rap was never > about the musical tecnicalities or whatever.
I'm not sure what it is, but every time I hear a rap song, I have an urgent need to reach for a quart of Colt 45 :) Mr. Wendle produces a SOUND. I listen to SOUND. I like the SOUND. I have no idea what key or time signature the SOUND is in. I like the SOUND of the backup vocals from the female. These SOUND relax me. Isn't it interesting to note that he's just sitting in the window relaxing? Do you suppose there's a connection?
> Song and Emotion covered by Dream Theater..... hmmmm > *mulls it over a while.....* Yea... it could work. Yep...
Party's Over might work too.
> Also, MP mentioned that Dream Theater may be opening for > Queensryche in the near future.
Mindcrimer must be turning over in his sleep at the thought of it :) Now what's he gonna do it people actually start enjoying themselves? Have a caniption?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Since I didn't get any responses the first time, I'll try again. Does anyone have the text or a pointer to the article in which Blind Melon expressed his opinion of DT?
I was with a friend the other day who played some Melon, I brought this up but was unable to give more details. I put on Awake. The friend didn't like the heavier stuff, but he commented very favorably on The Silent Man.
My other friend really digs Scarred and I played him LSoaD for the first time, and showed him what a great edit job they did leading into the cymbals at the begining of Scarred.
So I guess the number of conversions is hovering around 1-1.5 :)
Rip/Chris: You're fighting the weight of the world, no one can stop you this time. Close your eyes, you'll find all you need in your mind :)
It's all there right in the lyrics, pooch :)
Regards,
Jon
*------------*------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*------------------------*--------------*
One good thing about being wrong is the joy it brings to others.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 12:43:14 -0400 From: Phil Carter <carter@negia.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: New DT predictions Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970522124314.006a8ae8@pop.negia.net>
The Bahr (yes, I'm going to call him that, since he roolz) said:
>The reason there's no DT content right now is because there's >fucking nothing to talk about with regard to DT right now!! Duh! Once >something significant happens, we'll have tons of shit to post about. >Until that time happens, there's nothing wrong with related band posts, >related topic posts, and even general friendly back'n'forth.
I'll tell you, I'm actually quite afeared of what'll happen if (not when, I refuse to say "when" until I actually SEE the new album in stores) DT ever releases the new album. I can see it now...
1) Insane prog fans (or is that being redundant?) ytse-jam into stores clamoring for the new triple-CD DT album. Those store owners who were unlucky enough to under-order, or god forbid didn't order any copies, will be shot repeatedly, then hung, then burned in effigy. Minor riots will ensue over the final copy of the 3-CD set. The increased demand will result in DT being given their own aisle at every store in the nation.
2) Newspapers, music magazines, television shows, and radio hosts will all go berserk trying to deal with the influx of info about the new album. Reviews will be written as the discs are playing, rushed into print, and promptly snapped up. The first review to be printed (beating out the Washington Post's review by mere seconds) will appear in the New York Times. This issue of the Times will set sales records nationwide and become a collector's nightmare.
3) Musicians everywhere will require a change of clothing after listening to the new discs. A ripple is seen as thousands of guitarists sink to the floor weeping in absolute despair at hearing Petrucci's runs, swearing never to touch a guitar again; however, thousands more will pick up a guitar for the first time, swearing they've found new purpose in life. Petrucci 7-string models begin selling for 5-figure prices. Despite this, they sell out almost overnight. Similar incidents occur with every member of DT; the Korg Trinity, for example, can only be found in stores as far away as Australia, merely because Derek has mentioned that he plays one.
4) Radio shows and TV stations devoted entirely to DT will spring up overnight. Existing playlists will be hurriedly scrapped as stations rearrange their formats to devote themselves to playing only DT music. The sudden appearance of DT on television and the radio will create millions more new fans, who will rush to stores, stripping the already-skeletal shelves completely bare of DT discs. EastWest will enlist Mike Bahr's help in printing new discs to keep up with the insane demand.
5) The week leading up to the new release, Skadz will have utilized donations from DT-hungry jammers to rent Deep Blue in order to keep the list running despite the huge bandwidth cost. The day of the release, even Deep Blue shuts down momentarily with thousands of posts pouring in. Mailboxes all over the world fill in the twinkling of an eye, some so quickly that servers crash and businesses founder. Every jammer is forced to switch to digest mode so they can keep up. D-Man begins tearing out his hair in chunks trying to update the FAQ, but new questions keep pouring in faster than he can answer them. He is forced to go on tour with DT and keep a constant recorder on the boyz 24-7 in order to answer everything.
6) DT's tour, billed as "The Dream of the World" tour, overloads TicketBastard months before tickets actually go on sale. Dream Ticket is created to handle DT tickets for the tour; soon the Dream Ticket outlet is a more recognizable national symbol than McDonald's. True DT fanatics (recognized by the DT members themselves, who at this point have become so godlike that they are actually omniscient) are given front row tickets to any show they desire. The longest amount of time any show goes without selling out is ten minutes, and that's the show at the new DT Theater (1,754,335,634 capacity, constructed in New York specially for DT shows). The tour continues for years without letting up, only breaking for DT to record the next 10-CD album, which they do in a frantic seven days.
Months later, a genuine spacecraft from another world will show up. The aliens' first words on arrival: "Who is this Dream Theater we hear so much about?"
If only.....:)
Cheers, Phil
========================================================= Phil Carter -- carter@negia.net http://www.negia.net/~carter "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach "Music brings peace to the restless, and comforts the sorrowful. They who no longer know where to turn find new ways. And those who have despaired, gain new confidence and love." -- Pablo Casals
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: singing Message-ID: <199705221710.NAA16005@umbc8.umbc.edu>
> Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 08:53:35 -0500 > From: matt rosin <msr7146@unix.tamu.edu> > To: ytsejam@ax.com > Subject: Re: rap > > >don't like rap. In addition to what Adam said, I hate it when people refer > >to what rappers do as singing. Are they dumb or something? I don't hear > >any musical notes. I also hate that rappers become famous for doing > >something that almost anyone else can do (unless you stutter or something, > >although that could become a new style of rap). > > ok, this is bullshit. i guarantee you that most people cannot do what > good rappers do. it takes an incredible sense of rhythm and vocal > inflection to achieve the sound that they wish to achieve.
Well, I strongly disagree. While I don't LIKE rap <actually, I HATE it> and there's no way to prove that it isn't music or is unmusical, it really doesn't take much musicianship at all to rap. As for vocal inflection, I find that rappers put very little emotion or interpretation into what they are saying, but that's assuming you can understand the words anyway. :)
> defining singing by western-art-music concepts of melody is absurd.
It most certainly is NOT absurd. Singing as we know it came from plainchant, then motets, etc., and eventually into madrigals and art song <like the German Lied and Frech melodie>, all of which demand a standard of vocal technique. Popular music is the only medium in which you can get away with singing with bad technique, and that's a shame considering that good, technical bands like DT are technically popular music.
Steve Z
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:21:46 -0400 From: andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Various and sundry items... Message-ID: <199705221721.AA20335@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hello, For anyone who did not read Swifty's post on why the Jam is so good the way it is, go back and read Jam #2577. I agree with him completely that this is a community like any other, but he put it far more eloquently. Partha: Since you mentioned "Play with Me" I thought I'd bring something up. This is one of the few Bettencourt solos I was able to learn. Why? Because it doesn't rely very much on pull-offs, which I've always had trouble with, coordination-wise. So I pose a question, does anyone have a similar guitar handicap? I just can't get patterned pull-off right. Ones that are fairly unmatched or repetitive seem easier. It's as if my fingers are better at memorizing than cycling one memory over and over.
IF YOU ARE SICK OF THE RAP THREAD, DO NOT GO ANY FURTHER.
Okay, I should say that I was the one who started up the whole rap thing again (for like the umpteenth time!). I talked about how jazz was the only definable musical category and someone else popped in with rap, so I made a joke. That's right this all started as a JOKE!!!! I have to say that I dislike rap as a genre, but there are bright points. Unfortunately, those bright points faded when MC Hammer hit it big. But on a couple of notes:
>i guarantee you that most people cannot do what good rappers do.
I'd agree with this statement. But most people CAN do what MOST rappers do. Snoop, Coolio, and that ilk have nothing on LL Cool J, Grandmaster Flash, and Ice-T. The difference between them: the former are flash in the pan, the latter are tried and true legends who have had to produce over a period of time. I think rap is one of the few styles of music that gets better the more an artist puts out albums.
>just like you're right when someone says to you that all of d.t.'s >progressive instrumental sections all sound the same and you respond by >saying that he's not hearing the intricacies.
I have heard plenty of rap, and heard all the "intricacies" but one fact remains constant: the intricacies of rock and metal are created by talented musicians, the ones of today's rap are created by imaginative samplers. It takes little talent to piece together parts of other people songs, which is what most of current rap artists do. See my three examples of real rappers to see what USED to be rap (and sometimes still is). The original poster said that he hated how rappers get famous for doing something anything else can do. So I guess you also hate Bob Costas, Howard Stern, Jerry Seinfeld, and Brett Favre. All they do is talk about sports, say crass things, tell jokes, and throw a football (respectively). Sure they're better than most, but I think Matt explained that. I'm exposing absurdity by being absurd. :)
>it is a fundamental fact of life that if someone is not familiar with a >musical form or genre, they will think it all sounds the same,
------------------------------
>> blasting at high volumes out of their car (usually a real beater) >> windows to annoy passersby.
Piscataway, NJ has the right idea. If a police officer can hear the music (or any noise) coming from your car from 100ft. away, he is empowered to give you a $100 ticket. I am tired of hearing other people's music when I pull up to a stop light. I'm even more tired of hearing their music sitting in my house trying to watch TV. I'd like to conclude by saying one final thing; the profanity is WAY out of hand. Especially in this last post. Consider the language and whether you would use it to the person's face, or whether it is helping your argument. Chances are the answer is no in both cases. Treat the person as you would wish to be treated yourself. Oh, and because I know someone will say something: yes, I like to be treated with a great degree of sarcasm, and a whopping dose of bitterness. I would never ask a person not to be either of those, but the way they demonstrate it is what could change. Criminy, I sound like one of those preachy Jammers now... :)
His lunch break ending on an empty stomach, Andrew Forcier a.k.a. Buck Stodgers
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:38:27 -0700 From: "Thomas Warnick" <twarnick@nsc.utah.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Production value. Message-ID: <199705221731.LAA00142@beehive.nsc.utah.edu>
Yes, I am a new guy, with some new guy thoughts & questions.
I must admit, sadly enough, that I bought "Awake," unlistened to, because it had a cool cover, very Marillion-esque. One of those pay-day, I need something new in my life kind of hunches. I stuck it in, got hit by the initial drum blast of "6:00" and had chills go up and down my spine for the next 72+ minutes. Anyway, I became an instant, must have everything these boys have ever spit out, drooling for the next note fan.
My question: I feel that "Awake" is one of the best produced rock albums I own. Especially compared to the "give me more compression" sound of the 90's. It is hard hitting, clean, execellently mixed, with a huge sound. Are these new sessions under the same producer and engineer as the "Awake" sessions?
Glad to be aboard the Ytse
P.S. Ronnie James Dio gets a vote from me. I was in the upper tier at one of his concerts, and could hear his voice from the stage, as well as the P.A. Amazing lungs for a little guy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:16:00 -0700 From: chinton@walldata.com (Hinton, Chris) To: ytsejam@ax.com ('ytsejam@ax.com') Subject: DT Record Label Message-ID: <1997May22.110703.1100.809288@msmail.walldata.com>
<lurker mode off>
Ok, now that we know WHAT the problem is ( ie, DT's label is unwilling or unable to support them ), how do we go about solving it? I would think that they would be better served by a record company that exists to further the cause of progressive music -- what would it take to get them on Magna Carta? If the contract with their current record company is up soon ( hopefully after this album ) I would suggest to anyone with any pull with the band or their management to get them there.
My $.02.
<lurker mode on>
Chris Hinton Senior Software Developer Wall Data, Incorporated
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2579 **************************
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