YTSEJAM Digest 3265
Today's Topics:
1) Re: "Opinions about FII" by Mr Ptacek
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
2) Drummers!!!!
by KillMary <caschulze@mindspring.com>
3) Things that annoy the Vincester.
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
4) Re: 'Lie' Single - UK VERSION
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3264
by Jason Birzer <Longshot@pressroom.com>
6) Re: Megadeth
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
7) nurd
by "Kaplan Philip" <KaplanPhil@bah.com>
8) Re: Galactic Cowboys
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
9) Spiro Agnew
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
10) Opinions and openmindedness
by Phil Carter <satriani@negia.net>
11) FII, Tour, +Some NDTC.
by "Nick Palmer"<nxp@walker.com>
12) jeopardy girl!
by imajica@algonet.se (Niklas Thorpenberg)
13) Good Times Part X (was Re: WARNING!!!)
by "Lauren Glenn" <LGlenn73@bellatlantic.net>
14) about kuba's propositions
by "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
15) Re: Keys: Awake vs FII
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:07:46 -0600 (CST)
From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: "Opinions about FII" by Mr Ptacek
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971120100158.4944A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Rosinski, Michal wrote:
> and his letter? I think, you are an idiot, if you can't respect opinions
> of other people. This is a childish behaviour. How old are you? 15? This
ok, listen here, toots. the original post by that kuba dude contained a
lot of claptrap about such things as the objectivity of opinions about
what is good and bad. now maybe the original poster doesn't have a
command of english, i don't know. but the point is, his post sounded not
like he was stating an opinion, but instead that he was stating his
opinion was a *fact*, and in case you haven't noticed, people around here
don't like being told that their opinions are wrong, which is essentially
what mr. kuba was saying. that is why pstatstasic jumped all over him.
(you knew i'd work one of those in, chris... :)
anyway, my advice to you is to actually FUCKING READ THE POSTS! half of
all flame wars would be averted if people read what was actually on the
screen instead of just blindly getting pissed off... chris isn't cutting
down anyone's opinions, he's just fighting for the right of everyone to
*have* an opinion, and for all of them to be equally valid.
> next letter, but nevermind. I f*** it, and f*** your mail. I don't
and isn't fucking the mail a federal offense?
tah,
id
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:17:04 -0500 (EST)
From: KillMary <caschulze@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Drummers!!!!
Message-ID: <199711201617.LAA17093@camel8.mindspring.com>
On the eve of destruction, chaos, apocalypse and the arrival of my mommy,
Dr. Mosh said:
>Heheheh, and I bet you haven't even seen Dave Weckl, or Simon Phillips, or
>Vinnie Caluita live have you? Well... I've only seen Weckl, and that was
>bad enough... :) But someday I hope to see Bozzio play live, that should
>leave a nice stain in my pants...
Well, in the last Florida Drum Expo I saw a few of these fellows :-) Mostly
everybody there agreed that Bozzio pretty much kicked everybody else's ass.
Horacio "El Negro" Hernandez also kicked Simon Phillips' ass IMO. Don
Formularo too (ooooooooh such control!). But when the time came for the
so-much-expected BIG JAM, Simon Phillips kicked major ass - jamming is what
the man knows best, jamming is what he lives for :-) I still think the night
was Bozzio's though. Mike Portnoy would agree, wouldn't you? ;) (He flew in
just to watch the show, and talk with them "monsters").
Ah, Dennis Chambers was in last year's Drum Expo ;).
~Killer of Mary and the Holy Ghost and your teddy-bear.
"What is it that pulls a man in many directions all at once, but which at
the same time, also holds a man together? It is his soul." - Steve Seagle.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:36:35 -0700
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Things that annoy the Vincester.
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971120093634.006e78ec@postoffice.syspac.com>
At 05:30 AM 11/20/97 -0800, Paul Dyer wrote:
>as for Megadeth...same thing applies (just not as cahsed as Metallica!).
>Rust in Peace ruled...I haven't even listened to Cryptic Writings...
>
>Priorities, eh?
That's like saying "I hate the Beatles! I'm not listening to anything else
from Britain ever again!"
Someone's close-mindedness is making them miss out on some STELLAR work by
Megadeth. Cryptic Writings is far and away my favorite album of the past
year. I haven't heard a popular metal band play a song as heavy and as
good as "The Disintegrators" since 1992. Megadeth RULES! DT is #2 in my
book :)
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"God help me, please, Vincent LuPone |
|on my knees, betrayed by lust. vgl@syspac.com |
|We've lied to each other so much obscuredude@geocities.com |
|That in nothing we trust." Student/Guitarist |
| -MEGADETH, "Trust" Phoenix, AZ |
|= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =|
| =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= |
| | "The Secret Place I like to go..." | |
| | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 | |
| | "Welcome to My Hideaway" | |
| -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 10:55:27 -0600
From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: 'Lie' Single - UK VERSION
Message-ID: <34746b5954e5002@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Whoops, that should've been private email...sorry. :-P
-Brian
********************************************************************************
"I may have wasted all those years, but they're not worth their time in tears."
-John Myung of Dream Theater
********************************************************************************
Maintainer of Dream Theater North American Tour pre-show gatherings site:
http://umn.edu/~hayd0029/dt.html
********************************************************************************
Coleridge on IRC
http://umn.edu/~hayd0029
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:37:17 -0500
From: Jason Birzer <Longshot@pressroom.com>
To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3264
Message-ID: <11484.971120@pressroom.com>
Thursday, 20 November 97, you wrote to me:
>Saraya (Sandi Saraya singing) - straight upbeat rock and roll
I forgot about them. Actually not a bad band. Sandi Saraya sounds a
lot like Ann Wilson, which isn't a bad thing for a rock vocalist. It
is otherwise straight 80s metal. The album I have, "When The
Blackbird Sings" is pretty decent. I don't think they are around
anymore.
Jason Birzer mailto:Longshot@pressroom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:01:02 -0500 (EST)
From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Megadeth
Message-ID: <v01520d01b099d705362e@[207.90.120.7]>
>as for Megadeth...same thing applies (just not as cahsed as Metallica!).
>Rust in Peace ruled...I haven't even listened to Cryptic Writings...
you haven't even listened to it? then how can you make any points about it
whatsoever??
Dan
---+ +---
Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm (at) erinet (dot) com
Galactic Cowboys on the Web...muh!?
http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm
---+ +---
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:53
From: "Kaplan Philip" <KaplanPhil@bah.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com, ftg@orb.student.syr.edu, malzona@bah.com, BERESN@bah.com,
Subject: nurd
Message-ID: <A8EDB2FEBF61D111811F0060080350C6@hamltnpo4a.bah.com>
i hate marcus (my officemate)
-pk
ps- don't reply to all
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:15:30 -0500 (EST)
From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Galactic Cowboys
Message-ID: <v01520d02b099d84f83a9@[207.90.118.173]>
>Wow, I haven't heard these guys since they opened for Dream Theater
>in Rochester, NY for I&W. I wasn't expecting much from them (I mean...
>the name..."Galactic Cowboys" doesn't inspire confidence in
>musical ability :). But I was really impressed with them! I haven't
>bought any of their albums...what is a good one to start with?
If you're coming from a DT background, then I'd suggest starting out with
"Space in Your Face." It can be found in most used stores, or maybe in a
bargain bin (they were on Geffen, but Geffen dropped them after Nirvana
became the big thing)...
Their discog:
+Galactic Cowboys (1991, Geffen)
+Space in Your Face (1993, Geffen)
**short break-up and then back together on new label**
+Machine Fish (1996, Metal Blade)
+Feel The Rage EP (1996, Metal Blade)
+The Horse That Bud Bought (1997, Metal Blade)
+new one coming in mid-1998...
For more info on any and all of these, you can check out my band supported/
sanctioned GC page (it's in my sig)...
As for style, the first two were more in a proggy-quirky-metal (sub)genre
(SIYF is killer). With Machine Fish, they had left Sam "way too controll-
ing" Taylor (ex-producer of KingsX, etc), and the CD was more of a repre-
sentation of their live show. I'd call them hard modern rock now. They
have great lyrics, and can jam out too... Monty is a great bassist, IMO.
He's no John Myung as far as technical stuff, but he's fun and he has a
great tone and plays 4, 6 ,and 8-string basses. Great personality too...
Their most recent "The Horse That Bud Bought" is one of their best overall
to date (IMO). SIYF is probably my fav, but THTBB is my fav as far as
every song on it is really well written and quite enjoyable.
That's all,
Dan
---+ +---
Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm (at) erinet (dot) com
Galactic Cowboys on the Web...muh!?
http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm
---+ +---
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:22:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Spiro Agnew
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.971120091446.17335A-100000@main.cfmc.com>
> From: "Joshua B. Wingell" <wingell@alctrz.ENET.dec.com>
>
> >Five Gratuitous CD's:
> >=====================
> >1. Rush: Test For Echo
> >2. Metallica: Re-Load
> >3. Galactic Cowboys: Machine Fish
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Wow, I haven't heard these guys since they opened for Dream Theater
> in Rochester, NY for I&W. I wasn't expecting much from them (I mean...
> the name..."Galactic Cowboys" doesn't inspire confidence in
> musical ability :). But I was really impressed with them! I haven't
> bought any of their albums...what is a good one to start with?
Well, I think Dan's the expert (though I haven't seen him for a bit here)
on the band, but, for what it's worth, I think their first two albums
("Galatic Cowboys" and "Space in Your Face") are their best. I'd lean a
little towards "Space in Your Face," but they're both REALLY good.
> Btw, the coolest part about that concert was the chorus on "Take
> The Time". Right before the chorus, the Galactic Cowboys ran on
> stage and sang the chorus with DT :) It really rocked, and it really
> got the crowd riled up. Then again, it doesn't take much to get
> the crowd riled up during that song ;)
Yeah, I remember that. The first time I saw the Galactic Cowboys live was
when they went out with King's X, right after their first album. I LOVE
King's X, don't get me wrong, but I thought the 'Boys were more impressive
live. Maybe it's just Monty Colvin stomping around. They're great...
Five Gratuitous CD's:
=====================
1. Rush: Test For Echo
2. Dream Theater: Falling Into Infinity
3. Metallica: Reload
4. Social Distortion: White Light, White Heat, White Trash
5. Eric Johnson: Venus Isle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:23:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Phil Carter <satriani@negia.net>
To: Under a Glass Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Opinions and openmindedness
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.971120120116.18435A-100000@peach.negia.net>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids...
(First off, let it be noted that this is going to Mike as well as the
'jam).
Michael Rosinski wrote:
> I know Kuba, and know his opinion about FII. Althought I don't agree this
> opinion, he obviously have a right to his own opinion. Mr Ptacek, what a
> narrow-minded are you? Can't you use a more polite words to describe Kuba
> and his letter? I think, you are an idiot, if you can't respect opinions
> of other people.
Ridiculous. Chris may be many things, but "narrow-minded" is not one of
them. He has gone on record many times defending others' opinions and
beliefs. I think what set him off in this case was not that Kuba stated
opinions, but that Kuba stated his opinions as if they were the only
possible correct ones and all other ones must be wrong. It pissed me off
too but I let it slide, since it is just an opinion and he's welcome to
it.
> This is a childish behaviour. How old are you? 15? This is strange,
> that a few weeks ago I red a discussion on YTSE about rights to
> opinions, and now I'm reading these f***ing bullshits!!!!
Chris has been a longtime member of this list and has told people more
times than I can count for people to keep their eyes, ears and minds OPEN.
Kuba's post was about as closeminded as you can get. Do you recall reading
Chris's old .signatures, which had a Michael Hedges quote about making
fertile the ground on which idea seeds fall? I thought not.
> I think, the european prog-metal scene is better than in US. We respect
> rights of others, but you don't.
Don't be absurd. The European prog-metal scene is probably "better" than
the U.S. scene, true, but not because Americans don't respect rights --
because Americans generally don't have the taste for progressive music
that Europeans do.
> So, I wish you good luck on your way to knowledge about a music.
HAHAHAHAHA! Do you have *any* idea of how many different CD's Chris has?
How much different music he listens to? How long he has *been* a musician?
You really ought to find out more before making accusatory comments.
> I think, you probably will bring me down in your next letter, but
> nevermind. I f*** it, and f*** your mail.
What was that you said about being openminded and listening to other's
opinions? Hypocrite.
> I don't understand, why some people on YTSE want to make a battles with
> others. In my opinion it should be a friendly channel for real DT fans.
It should. Personal attacks like this that *should* have been sent to
private email make it very difficult to give the 'jam a friendly
atmosphere.
> I'm thinking, what other bands you listen to, Mr Ptacek. Can you tell
> me?
He could, but I hope to hell he sends it to you via email, otherwise the
list will fill an entire 'jam. Once again, get your facts straight before
making attacks.
> You probably have a sunglasses on your eyes, and don't see any
> aspects of some things.
Ah, the irony of it all. *Who* has dark glasses on? You, or Chris?
Methinks it's *you* who needs to remove his dark glasses.
> If anyone from YTSE wants discuss with me about this matter, please send
> letters personally to my own e-mail address.
Fine. But I'm also sending it to the 'jam. You have made completely
unfounded accusations against a longtime 'jammer, and Chris should be
allowed a response here. After that, it ought to be taken to email.
No, I'm not related to Chris. I've never met him, and I don't know him
other than through his posts here. I'm just curious why you saw the need
to make such an attack when you obviously have absolutely no idea what
Chris is really like.
Cheers,
Phil
=====================================================================
Phil Carter -- satriani@negia.net (work), carter@negia.net (personal)
Tech Support, NorthEast Georgia Internet Access, 546-5787
"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."
-- Berthold Auerbach
Currently playing: Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble -- "Live Alive"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 97 11:50:52 -0800
From: "Nick Palmer"<nxp@walker.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: FII, Tour, +Some NDTC.
Message-ID: <9711208800.AA880046940@smtpgate.walker.com>
Hey Jammerz!
Pone in un-lurk mode for a moment, and I'd just like to say how much
I've enjoyed the recent Flame-Wars series - so glad to see the Jam
isn't becoming like every other newsgroup I've encountered.
Some DTC:
I've had FII for around a month now, and despite the fact that all
non-UK jammers will have got rigid-bored of discussing it ages ago
I'll make a couple of quick comments anyway. In a nutshell, like the
album lots but perhaps not as much as earlier works (yet?) NM is cool,
absolutely love YNM, PS and HY, thereafter it loses me a touch but is
still very good. Of all the tracks, HY is I think the only one which
approaches the 'goosebump factor' of some of the stuff on earlier
albums - e.g. Surrounded / the end of Metropolis / Erotomania as it
builds into the 'hook' (chorus) line of Silent Man - all of these
still send a shiver down my spine each time I hear them. Most of the
new stuff doesn't do so - couldn't put my finger on exactly why at the
moment though. Actually, thinking of Erotomania it kinda strikes me
that earlier instrumentals / jams seemed a lot more 'integrated' with
the tracks around them than does for E.g. HK. OK so I know that
Erotomania is part of AMBI rather than a completely stand-alone track;
to that I'd say 'fine - I like it better when they arrange
instrumentals like that!' (Also, if someone with more theoretical
music knowledge wants to tell me that HK shares chord progressions or
time changes or whatever with other stuff on FII then that's cool - I
don't hear or feel it though and that's all I can ever go on.) Anyways
I like the album and can't wait for Dec 9th in London - any other UK
Jammers going? (Apart from you Dave!)
Please feel free to question my intellect, parentage, spelinge or
gramma based on any of the above. ==;-)
Some NDTC whilst I'm here (private replies pls)
1) Anyone into Kamelot? Like to hear from someone who's heard them
live; I love the first 2 albums and am looking forward to the newbie
in 98.
2) Crimson Glory someone mentioned... New album due out early next
year last I heard; Midnight is not the vocalist... The lowdown is all
out on the web somewhere but I don't have the URL handy. If the new
album is like CG or T, then I'll love it - if like S&B then probably
not.
3) I'm going to be in NYC in January (17-24); can any NY Jammers
recommend
-cool clubs I might wanna check out.
-the best way to get from Manhattan to Meadowlands sports complex.
-good record stores to visit
TVM in advance for any help.
That's it for now then, take it easy y'all.
Pone.
CP: Styx: Pieces Of Eight.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:30:31 -0800 (PST)
From: imajica@algonet.se (Niklas Thorpenberg)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: jeopardy girl!
Message-ID: <199711201730.JAA18523@odin.ax.com>
Hey!
I could not believe my eyes. Earlier today (Thursday), in the Swedish
version of Jeopardy, there was a girl with a DT t-shirt. It was short
sleeved with a huge flaming heart on the front. Her name was Sandra, and she
was kind of pretty - well, in her own sort of way. Of course, the others
never had a chance, and she won in style.
There should be more girls like that!
..that was a Cuckoo's way of thinking, always making divisions: the viewer
from the viewed; the peach from the taste it left on the tongue.
- Clive Barker "Weaveworld"
Ha det!
Niklas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:28:02 -0500
From: "Lauren Glenn" <LGlenn73@bellatlantic.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Good Times Part X (was Re: WARNING!!!)
Message-ID: <01bcf5d9$a74d4a60$934f9fcf@lglenn73.bellatlantic.net>
-----Original Message-----
]From: Mauricio Martinez Villarreal <al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: WARNING!!!
>
>On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 scottr1@istar.ca wrote:
>
>>
>> WARNING!!!
>> If you receive an email entitled "Join the Crew", DO _NOT_ OPEN IT!
>> It will erase everything on your hard drive. This is a new virus and not
>> that many people know of it. This message was received this morning by
>> IBM and the U.S. National Guard, among others. Please share this message
>> with anyone you know that has 'net access.
>>
It will only erase everything if it has executable code in it and it is run.
Reading an e-mail doesn't necessarily open attached code. And reading a
text only message won't send a virus.
>> Thanks,
>> Scott Roberts
>> Packard Bell NEC, Inc.
>> phone: 604-291-9767
>> fax: 604-299-4511
>> email: scottr1@istar.ca
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:53:00 -0500
From: "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: about kuba's propositions
Message-ID: <199711201751.MAA27510@bertelsmanncis.com>
hey all,
from mike:
>I know Kuba, and know his opinion about FII. Althought I don't agree
this
>opinion, he obviously have a right to his own opinion. Mr Ptacek, what
a
>narrow-minded are you? Can't you use a more polite words to describe
Kuba
>and his letter?
i think the problem that chris ptacek had, and that i had as well, was
that kuba was pretty much eliminating the notion of opinion in his post.
without any subjectivism, there can't be opinions. things are right and
wrong, that's it. so if he was stating an opinion, then the game's
over, because he just contradicted himself.
about chris' reaction: for one, his analysis was accurate. second, my
impression was that chris was so straight-forward in his response in
order to demonstrate the problem with having only blacks and whites, no
(pleasant) shades of gray. yes, he was blunt, but i didn't get the
sense of any anger with kuba himself, just very strong negative opinions
about kuba's propostions. and besides all that, if there's one thing
you can expect from chris ptacek on the 'jam, i've come to learn, it's
that he will never ever beat around he bush. he's notihng if not
direct, and that's all he was being here.
--MATt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:03:26 -0500
From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Keys: Awake vs FII
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971120130326.00bd13c0@sol.eng.fore.com>
>I also don't notice the "bad production: (guess I'm deaf) and for those who
>claim the album is disjointed, all I have to reply is that to me,
>Erotomania is ten times more fragmented than anything on FII. In fact, I
>don't hear any transitions on it that don't go smoothly.
The production on the new album is getting to be less and less a factor,
the more I listen to it. Howver, I don't see how the transitions in
Erotomania have anything to do with production. If you think there are
faults in that tune, they should be directed at the writers of the song
(i.e. the band), not the producer. In a song like Erotomania, the
producer(s) probably said "OK, go do your thing," and didn't do anything
except make sure the recording was great. Personally, I don't think I've
ever heard an album as well produced as Awake, and when dealing with 7
string guitars, 6 string basses, and 100 keyboard sounds, I think that's
saying a lot.
>Hm. I will probably always hold I & W first in my mind among DT records,
>as it was the first I heard, but FII comes a darn close 2nd. The band
>sounds whole, unlike Awake, which I feel is four musicians and a session
>keyboardist there to earn some money. (poor Kevin, I still prefer his
>overall style to that of Derek's, but I just don't see him trying on Awake)
The keyboards are in there all over the place. Granted, they're not as up
front as they were on I&W, but they're there. Although Kevin was on his
way out, and that situation greatly influenced the album as a whole, I
can't agree with your "session keyboardist" theory, because Kevin had as
much to do with those songs as he did with I&W, and his signature is well
in place all over Awake.
Coming up: my thoughts on last night's show in Pittsburgh.
KAI
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3265
**************************
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