YTSEJAM Digest 3287
Today's Topics:
1) Re: More on overplaying..
by "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
2) DC Show Tech Errors
by Andrew Rittner <ADR93001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
3) simple? / goosebumps
by "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
4) DT Chills
by Jeremy Kube <jkube@cyberportal.net>
5) subtle complexity
by "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
6) allow me to jump in...
by "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
7) UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: Reviews
by Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
8) Atlanta shows
by Eric Desobe <edesobe@emory.edu>
9) DC show at the Bawlroom
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
10) Overplaying - DT = Nirvana?
by "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
11) Fates Tour Date.
by Eric S P Barker <EBarker@NBCI.Net>
12) Message *bounced*
by "O/T-Track+ 2.66b" <"O/T-Track+=202.66b"@f854.n292.z2.fidonet.org>
13) Re: Maturity...
by Brian Hansen <bhansen1@leland.Stanford.EDU>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 24 Nov 97 12:31:48 -0800
From: "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: More on overplaying..
Message-ID: <199711242033.MAA26027@mailseq4.us.oracle.com>
Pat writes:
>If you have the ability to play a
more complex part and that is what you think should go there, why simplify it?
I agree completely.
>I think "overplaying", particularly as it was used in the article, means
more "difficult to listen to".
Yes, but in addition people who judge music as "overplaying" often are
including the negative connotation of "showing off." In my experience, that
is how it has happened. See my previous post for my opinions on "overplaying"
and whether it is truly possible. :)
cheers,
-Neil.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 15:20:58 EST
From: Andrew Rittner <ADR93001@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DC Show Tech Errors
Message-ID: <971124.153350.EST.ADR93001@UConnVM.UConn.Edu>
***
The bad stuff:
The sound. The Cap Ballroom pretty much sounds like crap anyway, but I
think the soundman was asleep for most of the set - the mix was beyond
awful for most of LiTS, and went screwy again at several spots during
the set. Somehow, I don't think the band was too pleased either - they
seemed to be having problems with the monitor mix. They came out kinda
flat - the set didn't really get going until about "Scarred". JP's tech
was nowhere to be seen when he broke a string during a solo - I'm
zeroing on which song that was - and he had to go back behind the amps
to get another guitar. Derek's keys were absent from the mix at times,
and he lost power to his side of the stage for about a minute - during
"Scarred", if I remember correctly - and could do nothing but sit there
looking pissed. I think it may be time for the band to review the roadie
situation - they don't seem to be doing to good of job. The band
***
I can't vouch for the roadies personally, since I wasn't there. They might
have had an off night I suppose. However, one of the tough things about
touring small clubs like DT is doing is that they have a different set-up
in each place they go to. I saw them twice on this tour, and in each
place, they had a different sound board. Some of the stuff is the same,
mostly the rack equiptment (meaning the sound guy's rack, not the
musicians' racks. That stays the same, of course), but the lights, and
often the sound equiptment, speakers, etc, is whatever the house has
available. And if the house equiptment sucks, then the sound, of course,
sucks. The sound tech was grumbling the entire time in Providence about
the board (and the drunks putting their drinks on said board). It had
buttons missing, and looked kind of messy. I asked him if it was DT's or
not, and he mumbled that it was a house board.
As a audio engineer type person (I'm actually about to graduate with a
degree in it) I can say that DT's sound guy (the big guy with the long
grey hair) REALLY knows what he's doing. He has kind of a surly attitude
if you talk to him, but he's actually really cool. And being as far into
the tour as they were, I doubt he'd start screwing up now. It's entirely
possible that most or all of the problems described were caused by
the crew's unfamiliarity with the house they were playing in. For example,
the Providence show was nearly flawless, but the show at Toad's the next
weekend was beseiged by tech errors. Like fires and stuff. It seems
unlikely that the crew would actually get stupider as they went into the
tour, unless DT is using regional crews, or worse, house crews (ewww...)
Anyway, this isn't any sort of backlash, I just thought I'd speak up for
my bros in backstage-land. It's a really rough job, especially when things
start to get crazy. But that's also why it's so much fun!
Thanks for listening, again.
Andy Rittner
adr93001@UConnVM.UConn.Edu
http://www.connix.com/~rittner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:43:00 -0500
From: "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: simple? / goosebumps
Message-ID: <199711242038.PAA01254@bertelsmanncis.com>
hello all,
from luke:
>However it took one of DT?s simplest pieces of music from one of their
>simplest songs - CIAW, right at 3:46 when that heavy, eerie, synth lead
>instrumental section kicks in - to get me hooked. That small, dynamic
simplest songs? i don't know about that... it just doesn't seem right,
using the term "simple" to describe dt. 'course, i'm sure you were
using it relatively, but still...
ok, these dt goosebump moments. from falling into infinity, one has to
be in hell's kitchen, at the beginning, when petrucci comes in with that
wah-ish "bwaaah" before the drums kick in. very nice. and when the
vocals first come in in new millennium, i'd say that counts too. take
away my pain gets me, particularly with the context, even though kevin
james isn't happy with it.
from awake, the first chorus in lifting shadows come to mind, as does
the sample something like "this is his toughest challenge yet, he's
going to have to face it" in space dye vest--given the context, and what
it meant in kevin's life. and in voices, the climactic "maybe i'm just
cassandra..." section always does it.
from images and words, when the band first kicks in altogether in
surrounded. the whole "dust fills my eyes" verse of pull me under.
intro to glass moon.
from dream and day, whenever charlie stops singing. =) no actually, i
really think his voice is adequate, and at times works well. seriously,
only chills i get are at the beginning of ytsejam, just before the main
riff begins. such a feeling of anticipation.
thinking about it, actually, dream and day really is the only album
without goosebump moments. maybe it's the production, maybe it's just
that the music is... i dunno... immature? =) oof! actually, i'm only
partly kidding. i mean, as over the top as that album is with
instrumental virtuosity, maybe it's too over-the-top... not sure.
--MATt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:47:00 -0500
From: Jeremy Kube <jkube@cyberportal.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT Chills
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971124154700.007c3b50@cyberport.cyberportal.net>
My chills are:
Hearing Surrounded.
Hearing Eve
Hearing Scarred...Live for the first time
Hearing KJ hit those incredibly high notes in Lie.
All of Learning to Live
------------------------------
Date: 24 Nov 97 12:51:57 -0800
From: "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: subtle complexity
Message-ID: <199711242053.MAA29644@mailseq4.us.oracle.com>
Isaac made an interesting comment:
>As a guitarist I have always found JP's
rhytm guitar parts as difficult as his solos. And FII is loaded with
strong rhythm playing.
This makes me think of something I noticed about FII. There is a lot of
subtle, "hidden" complexity in the album. The first thing that springs to
mind is "New Millenium." At first, the song doesn't kick your ass the way
Metropolis would, but if you listen carefully there is A LOT of cool stuff
going on "underneath."
I'm not even going to touch the topic of maturity, but I'll go on record as
saying the I&W is my favorite album ever and FII is a fantastic album which
time will place in its spot in my DT "pecking order."
cheers,
-Neil.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:17:00 -0500
From: "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: allow me to jump in...
Message-ID: <199711242114.QAA06980@bertelsmanncis.com>
hello all,
from neil:
>My point is this - If a person
>records a song - let's say it's an instrumental shrapnel disc filled
with
>crazy soloing - then there is a reason that person played the way they
did on
>record.
the point of this eludes me. i don't believe the question is
rationality--the question isn't whether a person writes a song with a
reason or not, the issue seems to be whether that reason was a good one.
lots of bad songs can come together because the reasoning behind writing
it or its parts are bad, i would think.
>I think it is rare that someone thinks "I'm going to
>play really fast on this record to try to impress people with my
playing".
i am really not too sure about this. there's no way to prove this
either way, of course, but i would be willing to say that there are
probably quite a few musicans who do get so caught up in the technical
aspects of their work, the "impressive" parts, that they do lose touch
with the emotional impact of the song. while they may not have to
consciously think, "boy will this impress them!," they would be equally
guilty of losing touch with the song merely by losing the emotional
impact in technical prowess.
>You'll notice,
>however, that no guitarist is ever accused of overusing one aspect of
their
>ability: the ability to play slowly. I could argue (with the same
dubious
>effectiveness) that most musicians out there are constantly
"Underplaying", be
>it the result of a lack of talent or of a conscious desire.
although the phrasing rarely matches what you describe, i do think that
often, when we hear bands like bush and oasis and are repulsed, this is
the thought in mind. that is, what i am listening too is severly
limited, and i do not like it because the musicians either cannot move
beyond underplaying, or choose not too.
>If we think of a song as a fast moving, exciting, non-repeating piece
of music
>that constantly tugs at the ear, with disparate parts vying for your
>attention, then this fast playing would perfectly serve "the song" and
slow
>playing would detract from it (hence "underplaying"). It is merely the
notion
>of what a "song" should be that elicits the charge of "overplaying."
It is my
>point that we should think about expanding on what we believe to be a
"song".
to me, this is almost like the "nature/nurture" issue in psychology. do
we expect a song to be a "song" simply because it's what we're used to,
or did the notion of "song" arise and persist because it is what
naturally appeals to us? this is another point that can't be proven
decisively, but if it is the former, then we are right to push the
boundaries of "song," while if it is the latter, then our efforts are
unnatural and in vain.
>I would say no. There is a reason somebody played that blazing riff in
the
>first place - caught up in the music, an intense feeling or sensation
came
>over this person, whatever. The same reason is why it is appropriate
in the
>song.
again, though, simply because there is a reason does not make that
reason good. i may be struck for many different reasons to write a
certain part of a song, only to have it realized afterwards that the
part is horrible. that is the songwriting process, after all. consider
how kevin james feels about take away my pain--they had a reason for him
to sing it emotionally detached, but in retrospect, he now realizes that
he shouldn't have followed that reason. it was bad reasoning. that
"blazing riff" you speak of could be bad reasoning as well.
this is turning into a very interesting discussion...
--MATt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:32:24 +1000
From: Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: Reviews
Message-ID: <4A256559.007AA34A.00@nschq-e-navy.navy.gov.au>
>Rhapsody - Legendary Tales
> Imagine mixing Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray, Symphony X
>and Stratovarius - and then throwing away all the good bits: that's
>Rhapsody.
Add a bit of Manowar and Angra too, you get the BEST bits of all these
bands and you
have Rhapsody.
>Everything is very predictable - time for a solo, yes,
>here it comes, wank, wank, wank, now a bit of thrash/power stuff,
>castrato wailing, add the Vivaldi bits lads, nearly forgot the
>obligatory keyboard/guitar duelling (wank, wank, wank), bring on
>the vocal harmonies, catch your breath while the orchestral keys
>are playing before building up to the biggest wankfest since
>Pamela Anderson got her jugs out in Baywatch.
Wankfest ? You've surely got to be joking ?
It is the exact opposite for me, one of the things I like about Rahpasody
is
that you don't know what will come next.
>I even forced
>myself to listen to the whole balls-aching procedure a second time
>just to see if it was really as bad as I thought - it was. For quite
>some time I've been looking for something to stand my coffee cup
>on at work, and this CD will make an excellent saucer. There are
>obviously some people with technical ability on this album, but the
>music is about as warm as a witch's tit in winter. I even prefer
>Charlie Dominici to this singer, and that's saying a lot. 2/10.
In my book the allbum is as close to perfection as were gonna get.
9.5/10 in my book, there is room for improvement, the next album will be
a killer.
It's seems that the review was based almost entirely on just one listen,
how many
times has your opinion changed after repeated hearing of an album ?
Anyway IMNSFHO the album is brilliant, Neil your taste is in your ass mate
:)
Happy listening :)
graham
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:30:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Desobe <edesobe@emory.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Atlanta shows
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.3.95.971124162951.-390857A-100000@edesobe.resnet.emory.edu>
Anyone want to meet before or after the Atlanta show? Let me know.
-Eric
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:41:27 -0500
From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DC show at the Bawlroom
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971124204127.006a6df4@pop.pipeline.com>
And you thought I wasn't going to add in my few coins? Ha.
The trip starts at about 6:30pm when Pat Daugherty, his wife,
and his boozehound..er, I mean, driver pick up me up at a
safe parking lot where I can leave my car for the night.
Then it's onto 295 and DC, ho! We have no problem finding
the "club" at all. Homes I offers to serve as our personal
valet. Eh, no. Loooong line out front. I am thanking all
ye gods that it isn't too cold. We wait. Out of the cold
comes a scream, "Red Wings suck." Who could be such a moron
as to yell that? Syrinx, I believe ;-) Still sore about the
Flyers, I guess. I was thinking, "hey, someone is talking to
ME!" We wait. A few cops drive by to give the illusion of
safety in Crack-ville. Homes II staggers up, muttering to
himself. The line goes. The guy at the door asks if "we plan
on drinking." I guess so...if you insist. We go in.
DT swag looks pretty low budget. My cash remains in my pocket.
Faith No More blasts from the speakers. We walk by the bar, Merlo
yells something, I wave, and keep going so I don't get lost.
We station ourselves to the left of the soundboard. Drinks are
consumed in large quantities by our driver. Great. We run
into the dude running Power Mad. He admits he was stupid naming
the festival that. He "forgot" about the band by the same name.
*shrug* Some jammer who claims to be a lurker says something
to Pat. "Who the fuck are you?" - the question unspoken ;-)
Big Wreck comes on. Merlo and Sryinx are no where to be
found (I see why if he was up front). Boy are BW derivitive.
They had a bad attitude, too. As per normal, trees begin to
sprout up in front of my sight lines. Tall pregnant chick,
believe it or not. Stylish, happening dudes. Damnit, I left my
cowboys boots and vest at home. It's Howard Stern! Gene Simmons,
short and fat, crowds in behind. Oh, look, it's Mike from
Division, with new bassist in tow. Our driver continues to pound.
DT comes on. Sounds like crap. Not their fault. Jam sections rule.
Labrie's shirt makes me laugh. Show over. Lounge version comes on.
Ha ha. We leave. Homes III asks for an offering to the gods of
unburglarized cars. Fuck him. He pile into the car. "I can drive,"
says Mr. Driver. Uh-huh. We tempt fate and make it home. I turn on
Sportscenter to see that Gus Frerotte is a bigger idiot than I
ever dreamed.
End of story.
CD of the Day - Kamelot - Eternity
Green Bay Packers - The Quest to Repeat - Detroit Red Wings
9-3 15-6-4
at Vikings vs Ottawa
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: 24 Nov 97 13:48:53 -0800
From: "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Overplaying - DT = Nirvana?
Message-ID: <199711242149.NAA06164@mailseq4.us.oracle.com>
Chris P:
>To say that you don't believe in
overplaying or musical maturity, you'd have to be willing to say that
every DT piece is equal, and that every Nirvana piece is equal
to any DT piece.
Not at all. You would have to be willing to say that neither the DT piece nor
the Nirvana piece contains any "overplaying" or "underplaying." They simply
contain "playing." You can still exercise a judgement concerning how much you
enjoy the "playing", and in the Nirvana case I'd say "Not at all." :)
cheers,
-Neil.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:20:43 -0700
From: Eric S P Barker <EBarker@NBCI.Net>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Fates Tour Date.
Message-ID: <01BCF8EC.88C1BDE0@Production1.NBCI.Net>
----------------------------
All hello,
Yes it looks like Fates Warning will be in Colorado Springs on Dec. 3, at
Pure Energy.
Later,
Eric from Denver
----------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 97 22:18:34 +0100
From: "O/T-Track+ 2.66b" <"O/T-Track+=202.66b"@f854.n292.z2.fidonet.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Message *bounced*
Message-ID: <2397842644@f854.n292.z2.ftn>
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To: danajlovski peco @2:383/100
Subj.: [part 3] YTSEJAM digest 3272
Dated: 22 Nov 97 00:46:59
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To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
]From: ytsejam@ax.com
* Continuation 2 of a split message *
Hanson, I'm sure that Hanson fans would feel that this would represent a
"progression" from what they play now.
2) As was pointed out at great length a couple of posts ago, "progressive"
music does not at all imply change; rather it is a genre of music with a
specific set of characteristics. Therefore, even if we could objectively
define a "progression", the question of whether a given band is
"progressive" would still be unanswered.
I do think you have a point, as each of us has his own subjective
definition of what a "progression" represents and therefore prefers bands
that evolve in a certain direction. This is much too subjective to hang a
definition of "progressive" music on, however.
Mark McEuen
mceuen@owlnet.rice.edu
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3272
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:48:38 -0800
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen1@leland.Stanford.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Maturity...
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971124144838.006ba148@bhansen1.pobox.stanford.edu>
>Just like to once again throw my 2=A2 worth in. This time on the topic of
>DT's maturity and all the talk of 'wank-fests' etc..
>on I&W and AWAKE, it=92s the moods created by the music as a complete
>product. Right now, APSOG is getting more time in my CD player than FII,
>mostly because APSOG (yes, yes, IMHO of course) comes closer to
>capturing the feelings and emotions similar to those evoked by AWAKE.
>Luke.
Luke, I tend to agree.
I have been listening to FII since the day it came out, it's good, but it
still hasn't "clicked" for me. On Awake and I&W, the keys add a mood, and
often an additional theme to the songs. On FII, more often it seems the
keys are just another instrument playing along with the song. Kind of like
a second guitar player trading leads with JP. There's a dimension of the
music that is missing. It's like the maximum number of concurrent themes
has dropped from four to three.
On APSOG, the keys have added a sweeping, majestic sound that Fates didn't
have before. ;-) I have been into Fates since No Exit was released, but I
think that APSOG is now my favorite Fates disc.=20
IMHO, BH
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3287
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