YTSEJAM Digest 3056
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Clark's spiel part II
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3053
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
3) TAMP and YNM, etc...
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
4) What converted me...
by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
5) Hooked On Surrounded
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
6) Re: What converted me....
by "Graham Boyle" <icarus@sydney.net>
7) General DTC
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
8) Dream Theater - Seven Wonders (CD-ROM)
by DrummerEsh@aol.com
9) To Gene
by JE78674@ltu.edu
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3054
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
11) This Saturday.
by "D_TiCian" <D_TiCian@spade1.pacific.net.sg>
12) "Hugh Not Me", Fanclub Info, Marillion Tribute (DTC, honest !)
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
13) Re: Hamlet, typewriters, and fraternal mishaps.
by "Eric LaRue" <rycheanviolator@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:35:31 -0400
From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Clark's spiel part II
Message-ID: <19971001183723.AAA17442@sni.pananet.com>
ok Clark, i see what you mean, since i agree with a lot of it. Although I
never really thought about the rhythm/lead thing, I still see what you
mean. But, first of all, this wasn't very revolutionary. It's been done in
the past by many other guitartists like Steve Howe and Robert Fripp. AND
though Petrucci did go to a more defined division between rhythm and lead
on Awake, I think he went back to the more orchestral way of playing on
FII. The only songs where he really plays well-defined rhythms are the
heavy ones...and i think it's pretty obvious why he does that. And it kinda
explains Awake as well. His playing also became more melodic again on FII.
The solos to PS, HK, LITS, and TAMP are just incredibely beautiful (to me,
anyways).
And then there's the structure thing. I kinda mentioned this a while back,
when i was talking about how many DT songs made you listen to them till the
end because of the way they were arranged. But still, they did have a
standard structure they used. As opposed to the standard ABACB structure,
they usually play ABCBDB where C is a variation or totally different verse,
and D is the instrumental section. of course Met. and LtL have a unique
structure of there own. Now on FII, when I heard YNM and BMS i was worried
becuase it seemed they were going to a very basic form...the kind that
makes you bored by the time you get to the second chorus...but let's look
at the songs on FII...
NM, LITS, HK, and ToT are clearly not standard structure. YNM, well it
is...I must admit that for DT, this is overly simplistic. PS is special
because the last chorus is a revved up version of the original. Not
something new, but still not the usual form. HY and TAMP, IMO, would have
been damaged if they had tried some new revolutionary structure. They work
very well and both have an extra something at the end that makes it
different. Sometime a simple arrangement can be a lot more effective than
variations. BMS...I think the third verse adds a special touch to this
song, it kinda calms down a bit. JLMB...welp, definitely your standard
form, except for he fact that the last chorus is sung one line at a time,
and adds another line, and then goes to the bombastic, WFS-ish, finish.
Works very well,IMO.AL, I can't remember well right now.
My summary: To me, the only thing I ask for, in a song, is a climax point.
Very much like in a book, to follow your literature metaphor. This is
something missing in much of today's popular music, which simply repeats
parts without changing. On FII, DT still has the non-standard stuff, and on
the simpler songs, there's still a climax point, as subtle as it is, it;s
there works splendidly on those ballads IMO
Ernesto
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 00:41:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3053
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.971002003642.138510B-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
>
> >Slaughter (Revolution)
>
> This one I didn't know about. The most recent Slaughter release I have is
> "Wild Life." Thanks, again.
Might also want to pick up Fear No Evil. It came between out Wild Life and
the recent Revolution
> Geez, Richie, don't fuss at me, man, I love the 80's as much as you do! :)
No fussing intended. I just have all this 80s hard rock info swimming
around in my head. I had to do something with it. Keep the faith, my
brother.
Richie
P.S. DTC- YNM is now one of my favorite FII songs. And I actually
listened to PS all the way through and never got impatient once.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 97 23:47:17 -0500
From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: TAMP and YNM, etc...
Message-ID: <343327550c6f394@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Someone mentioned a similarity in the beginning of TAMP that they couldn't
place. I agree with someone a while back who said that it sounds sort of like
"Living Years" by Mike and the Mechanics.
And YNM: this sung is funky (as in odd, not actual funk style), but it grows on
me. I guess that's because my musical roots are in late 80's early 90's pop (and
metal) - I'm not much of a progger.
Anna Lee also grows on me, but I have to say that this is the only place where I
agree with that dumbass reviewer - some of the lyrics on this one are
inexcusably cheesy. A lot of Portnoy's lyrics on this album are kind of goofy,
but when taken in context of the song (especially BMS and JLMB) they're pretty
damn cool. Has anyone noticed that the lyrics on the harder songs are mostly
Portnoy and Petrucci does most of the softer ones?
Trial of Tears is quickly becoming one of my favorites of all time. I'm not a
big Rush fan, so I don't know anything about Xanadu. I think this is Myung's
best lyrical work - it kicks the hell out of LTL and LSOAD, and has cooler music
to boot. And to whoever mentioned PornoGraffitti here - you RULE! ;-)
I am hearing the Metallica in Peruvian skies now..."Bleeding Me" in the
beginning and the harder part of "Hero of the Day" later on. Somehow, I like PS
much better than either of those songs.
-Brian
********************************************************************************
"I said 'Hey man, there's something you outta know: your Park Avenue is just
Skid Row.' They call us problem child, we spend our lives on trial, we walk
an endless mile, we are the Youth Gone Wild."
-Sebastian Bach
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 00:13:45 -0600
From: "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: What converted me...
Message-ID: <199710020504.AAA17837@btiserv.btigate.com>
On 1 Oct 97 at 21:45, ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> > I the only person who experienced Dream Theater for the first time
> > with "Learning to Live" and was instantly "pulled under" by the
> > music? Andrew Fors afors@btigate.com
>
> Well, I was converted by "Metropolis". A frined of mine told me:
> "You've got to check this band out". I was not impressed by PMU, nor
> Another day, until the side B came (it was a tape) and I thought
> "Wow, how'd they play THAT???". Then I was hooked.
That's cool. I've always likedbands like Rush and Styx that used a
lot of keyboard work, and I was just amazed by the intracasy of the
keyboard/guitar blend in "Learning to Live." That's what hooked me.
>> I'm sure I'm one of very few that was converted by "Surrounded." I had had
>> I&W forced upon me, and I just couldn't get into all the proggy wackiness at
>> all, because I wasn't listening by choice. But I kept going back to it
>> because "Surrounded" struck a nerve. Such a beautiful song, but with
>> important parts in 5/4, it stood out even more. Then I realized the
>> polyrhythms going on in the verses, and I decided to investigate further.
"Surrounded" also caught myear, as the intro sounds like the intro
of the opening theme of the Japanese Anime "New Dominion Tank
Police." I still love that song. I'd say my faves are:
1. Wait for Sleep/Learning to Live(I say they compliment eachother)
2. A Change of Seasons
3. You Not Me
4. Space-Dyed Vest
5. Surtrounded
It's hard to pick, it's all so good. There isn't a song I skip
when listening to DT, even on WDADU. I do like Charlie's vocals, I
think he sounds like a cross between Steve Perry, Rush's singer and
Stryper's singer. Pretty cool, but he's no LaBrie.
Andrew Fors
afors@btigate.com
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2119
-----------------------------------
Sometimes a view from sinless eyes
Centers our perspective
And pacifies our cries
Sometimes the anguish we survive
And the mysteries we nurture
Are the fabrics of our lives
"Lines in the Sand"
Dream Theater - Falling into Infinity
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 01:05:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Hooked On Surrounded
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.971002005846.138510C-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> They also had a Greatest Hits CD this summer, I forgot if you
> mentioned it. Welp, Ja mata!
My bad. I forgot about it even though I own it. Having never really been a
Cinderella fan before, I was surprised how good they were/are.
----and----
> I'm sure I'm one of very few that was converted by "Surrounded." I had had
> I&W forced upon me, and I just couldn't get into all the proggy wackiness at
> all, because I wasn't listening by choice. But I kept going back to it
> because "Surrounded" struck a nerve. Such a beautiful song, but with
> important parts in 5/4, it stood out even more. Then I realized the
> polyrhythms going on in the verses, and I decided to investigate further.
Me too. A friend copied I&W for me and although I liked PMU, I remember
thinking that it dragged alot more that what I heard on the radio. I liked
Another Day, TTT was pretty good, but when I heard Surrounded I blew my
wad! I kept playing it over and over again, eventually to the point that
that I forgot that there were other songs on the tape.
Hey D- here I thought that our common love of Mountain Dew was the reason
we made such good bandmates :)
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:58:47 +1000
From: "Graham Boyle" <icarus@sydney.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: What converted me....
Message-ID: <199710020512.PAA12001@armstrong.apic.net>
I was converted back in 89 after reading an article and review of WDADU
written by the legendary (the guy who later signed DT to Atco) Derek Oliver
in the once great Kerrang magazine.
The CD just blew me away, still my fave DT album even after all these
years.
You know what ?
When I first got I & W I hated it and kept thinking wtf is with this new
singer !
ah memories :)
gRaham_
Still got the magazine, if anyone's interested ?
I will type it out and post it, a great article and review.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 00:17:25 -0500
From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: General DTC
Message-ID: <34332e6417a9009@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
> The Top Ten sellers at my store last week.
>
> Elton John
> Jann Arden
> Mariah Carey
> Trisha Yearwood
> Prodigy
> DREAM THEATER!!!!!
> Sarah McLachlan
> Oasis
> Bjork
> Foo Fighters
I'm going to mention this in my next phone call to our local dumbass radio
station...they were so cool for the first few months, and then decided to start
playing "heavy alternative" (Foo Fighters, Everclear, etc.) in the setlist along
with hard rock/heavy metal.
BTW, Mariah Carey is extremely hot. ;-) And her first album is pretty good.
I'm a PMU convert. I liked it when it was played on the radio here a few years
back, and happened to have the intro to it on tape. A friend of mine always
played I&W in the car and I decided that Met 1 kicked ass, so being a poor
college student, I dubbed the CD. ;-) I actually only own CDs of Awake and ACOS,
which I actually had before I&W, now that I think about it. I bought that one
'cause I'm a big Zeppelin fan and I read a mention somewhere of the Zeppelin
meddley on that disc, and since "Achilles Last Stand" is one of my favorite
songs ever, I just had to get it. So now that I think about it, I guess ACOS was
*really* my DT starting point. How weird is that? I still have IW (with
Metallica's "Am I Evil" and "Blitzkreig" tacked onto the end for good measure)
and FII just on tape dubs...college is wonderful. :-P My new roomate is a
percussion major, and he brought FII back with him after he went home last
weekend. Pretty damn cool. ;-)
-Brian
********************************************************************************
"I said 'Hey man, there's something you outta know: your Park Avenue is just
Skid Row.' They call us problem child, we spend our lives on trial, we walk
an endless mile, we are the Youth Gone Wild."
-Sebastian Bach
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 01:22:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: DrummerEsh@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Dream Theater - Seven Wonders (CD-ROM)
Message-ID: <971002011844_-1899163076@emout08.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-10-01 13:55:48 EDT, you write:
<< Dream Theater - Seven Wonders (CD-ROM) >>
Can someone tell me about this???
ESH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 01:30:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: JE78674@ltu.edu
To: YTSEJAM@ax.com
Subject: To Gene
Message-ID: <01IOBAQGQ24Y934RQX@LTU.EDU>
Thank God you're OK bro, hate to see a Jammer lost to the fate of an
automobile. What a strange twist having DT with you during the ordeal...
kind of makes you think.......hmm....
Oh well, get well Gene....
Jeff E.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:49:59 -0700 (MST)
From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3054
Message-ID: <199710020550.WAA10039@goodnet.com>
> > > DT released a 23-min song on September 19th '95
> > > And then they released a new CD on SEPTEMBER 23rd '97....
> > Euclid's Geometry begins with 23 axioms
> > 23 bonding pairs form a human DNA molecule
> > My daughter was born on January 23rd (1/23)
> > I live in apt. #2311 - there's a big 23 on the side of my building
> hmmm.... on my email system, this 'jam was listed as being 23k long...
And I'm 23 years old, and Michael Jordan wears #23. Really folks.
You can think of something for any damn number. :) Cool thread anyway.
> > Just a quick question... has anyone heard of the 80's speed/thrash metal
> > band, Heathen? Well, if so, I am REALLY looking for a copy of their album
> > "Breaking the Silence" on CD. Can anyone help out??
Huh? Is that a Queensryche cover band?
> >, nHey, Ryan. Put my resergvatrion down for Spinning years now.
>
> c'mon.. read his damn post!!!! "Don't email me about reserving a copy
> yet".... and don't encourage anyone else to clutter the jam like this as
Classic. :) I actually got five pieces of mail asking if people
could buy tapes from my tape archive that I just added to the page, even
though the first thing on page 1 in capital letters tells them that the
tapes are not available yet and I'm not gonna start making them yet. Ah
well. I guess it happens no matter what line of work you're in.
> >HY Is this the doctored song? sounds like it. I like it, but can't help
>
> Dude.. this is one of Petrucci's most emotional songs (of course next to TAMP)
> I've heard!!! What do you mean it stinks of doctoring??? "You Not Me" is the
> Desmond Child flick (and as such "sounds like it could get a lot of
Yeah, Hollow Years is all DT. and I think it's not only the most
accessible thing they've written, but more importantly, the best "soft"
composition they've done overall, because it's a very complete, uplifting,
tight, well-harmonized song. I can't wait to see the video. On VH1. :)
> Most mailing lists are ran with the same software... you send an
> unsubscribe <list> command to it and it'll usually unsubscribe you...
> IT's NOT THAT FUCKING HARD!
For a lot of people, it is. There's a whole generation of netters
out there who have never run anything more complicated than ICQ client or
Netscape Gold. Not like _some_ of us, who grew up in the stone age of
internetting when bandwidth was largely unused and pirate FTP sites were
the rage... making those 3300cps Qmodem Pro downloads... heh. I guess
there's no solution but to just let the people figure it out for
themselves.
> Anna Lee: VERY VERY nice. However, the song's structure is SO obvious
> that AL, as a whole, can't be titled as "perfect". I, being a
> proghead and a Tangerine Dream fan, value VERY MUCH a
> "non-standard" structure for a song (other than the typical
> intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/instrumental/chorus/chorus/chorus
> used in strictly commercial songs (as in, say, the dreaded
I know many people dislike this, but it's no coincidence that
this song structure persists after so many centuries of song, far
pre-dating pop culture. Common song used to run like this all the time,
usually repeating verse-chorus ad infintum at the end. When songs are
written in poor structure, they sound disjointed and incohesive. I was
commenting on this on amdt also. Pink Floyd's The Wall has many such
poorly structured songs. It's a powerful album that could have been so
much better without that fatal flaw. Meanwhile Operation Mindcrime seems
like more than it is, even though it _is_ brilliant, because the musical
structure and composition are superb. Just my thoughts.
-Mike Bahr-durnik@_goodnet.com-http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
"Welcome to the waistband... where you'll find asses... nothing but asses
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:58:24 +0000
From: "D_TiCian" <D_TiCian@spade1.pacific.net.sg>
To: sanant@pacific.net.sg, daydream@pacific.net.sg, ytsejam@ax.com,
Subject: This Saturday.
Message-ID: <199710020554.NAA17874@spade1.pacific.net.sg>
Hey all,
So Lionel and I were in school on tuesday, and he and I were thinking
about Coffee on saturday. SO reply and pass the word round.
-d
P.S: I won't be around on friday, back in camp. Darn!
=======================================================
~If you hang on to the past, you die a little everyday.~
-Cape Fear
Darryl = D_TiCian = dtc = Freaky
http://www.singnet.com.sg/~s7700020/
dtician@pacific.net.sg
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:40:32 +0100
From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: "Hugh Not Me", Fanclub Info, Marillion Tribute (DTC, honest !)
Message-ID: <01BCCF08.E49B4400@ns.globalxs.nl>
I think I discovered another typo in the "You Not Me" lyrics !
When you listen closely, you can *clearly* hear James singing:
"It's All About Hugh, Not Me"
Those were the exact words that hooker used, when she and Hugh
Grant got caught in a rather embarrassing situation last year.
:-)
Parody, anyone ?
_____
Peter Tatischev wrote :
> I need your advice - a friend of mine is goinng to England and he asks
> me what cool CDs by English bands he can get there
Marillion
_____
II Stephane Fortin asked :
> I wanted to ask if anyone could e-mail me personnaly to give me info
> on DT Fan Club with Elliot... I'd like to join, I have the address,
> but I don't know if I have to send any specific messages or money to
> subscribe.
There's a lot of information on how to join the "Images And Words"
fanclub, on "Under A Cyber Moon"... I'd like to mention again that
you can join *any* of the official Dream Theater fanclubs in order
to get this year's X-mas surprise... There's information about all
five of the official fanclubs on UACM :
http://www.prognosis.com/dream/
_____
There is some talk about a Marillion tribute CD on the Freaks list
right now... Someone is contacting bands, asking if they would be
interested in contributing to it. Dream Theater and Spock's Beard
have already been contacted about it ! (Sarah McLachlan too, btw).
Next on this guy's list are Doug Pinnick and Queensryche :-)
:-)
_____
Oh yeah, I've just uploaded the new MFP lists to Itchy's Homepage.
http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/indexdt.htm
Mark
____________________________________________________bredius@globalxs.nl__
I feel shipwrecked, _ _____ ___ _ _ _ _
I might as well be shipwrecked [=][_===_]/==_][=\_/=][=]_[=]
I'm helpless and alone, drifting out to sea | | [ ] ( (_ | _ | \ /
(Genesis - Shipwrecked) [_/ [_/ \___][_/ \_] [__/
_________________________________________________________________________
Dream Theater online "Under A Cyber Moon" http://www.prognosis.com/dream/
Itchy's http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/ H Website http://www.a-vip.com/H
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 23:00:50 PDT
From: "Eric LaRue" <rycheanviolator@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Hamlet, typewriters, and fraternal mishaps.
Message-ID: <19971002060050.10855.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Dominor252@aol.com said in YTSEJAM digest 3045:
>According to the Signet Classic edition of Hamlet, the correct phrase
>is:
>
>"O that this too too sullied flesh would melt...."
>
>too too? I wonder if that's a misprint in the book... so much for
>showing
>that I have an, ahem, reliable source... :)
>-------------------
>
>Being a Shakespeare afficionado (okay, so I'm taking a course in
>Shakespeare currently, and we just finished Hamlet - big f'n deal)
>there are two versions of that line:
>
>"O that this too too sullied flesh would melt..."
>
>AND
>
>"O that this too too solid flesh would melt..."
>
>Difference? Sullied = stained, tarnished, blemished.
>Solid = duh...solid. Anyways, the original version was "sullied",
>but in the First and Second Folios of Shakespeare's works, the
>word was changed to "solid". My professor said that a good saying
>that corresponds to this is "All that is solid is sullied." and it
>applies
>to Hamlet nicely. Okay, that's enough for Hamlet today class.
>
>(Mind you, I may have the versions mixed up and "solid" might be the
>original...but I think I have it right.)
>
Could someone post an act/scene/line reference? I'd like to look it up
sometime(probably when I get home for fall break.)
>And, yes, what you hear about the fraternity incident that took place
at
>MIT
>is true - some of us are _not_ as smart as you think...
>
>.41 percent blood-alcohol level...it's pretty fuckin' stupid.
All right, someone please inform Mr. Uninformed here. What happened?
Feel to email me privately on that last one.
Complete with burning guitars, bashed up drum sets and sealed with a
kiss,
Eric Paul LaRue
"Take hold of the flame.
Don't you see life's a game?
So take hold of the flame.
You've got nothing to lose, but everything to gain!"
Queensryche-"Take Hold of the Flame"
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/6289
"Hey, America, you're so fine, you're so fine, you blow my mind.
America."-Bart Simpson
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3056
**************************
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