YTSEJAM Digest 3111
Today's Topics:
1) MP3 and CD-R
by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
2) Sorry!
by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
3) JD
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
4) Andrew Fors and digital sound cards
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
5) Disgusted with many DT fans
by Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
6) Re: SDV, television
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
7) Re: MiniDisc
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
8) More FW PS Interpretations
by Luke <slslb@winshop.com.au>
9) Jamming via the JAM...
by Luke <slslb@winshop.com.au>
10) 'Carved In Styx'????
by "Michael J. Emerson" <cthulhu@CYBERNEX.NET>
11) Greatest of Dream Theater.
by Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu>
12) Mini Disc Compression
by Pfaller Thomas <topf@mail.ops.co.at>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3108
by Elvis Bird <ebird@vianet.net.au>
14) Top ten lists / Damned sigs...
by "Adam" <alpineone@mindspring.com>
15) ForsJam
by Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 03:44:00 -0600
From: "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: MP3 and CD-R
Message-ID: <199710140834.DAA01111@btiserv.btigate.com>
On 14 Oct 97 at 1:13, ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> YTSEJAM Digest 3110
> I have a question for anyone with a cd-r drive, has anyone tried to compress
> a mp3 file in the
> "WAV mpeg layer3 format" and put it on a music disc and see if it will play
> on a regular stereo?
> It compresses the file as a wav file and plays in all wav players on the
> computer, so I figured I would give it a shot! It would be great if it
> worked, 4-6 hours worth of stuff on one cd. Just a thought.
CD-R's recordf audio in length of the song, not in how big the file
is. an 8 minute song is 8 minutes of audio to a cD-R whether it is 8
megs or 80 megs. Nice idea tho.
Andrew Fors
afors@btigate.com
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2119
-----------------------------------
Sometimes a view from sinless eyes
Centers our perspective
And pacifies our cries
Sometimes the anguish we survive
And the mysteries we nurture
Are the fabrics of our lives
"Lines in the Sand"
Dream Theater - Falling into Infinity
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 03:44:00 -0600
From: "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Sorry!
Message-ID: <199710140834.DAA01115@btiserv.btigate.com>
On 14 Oct 97 at 1:13, ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> > Here's Mine:
>
> One of the biggest ytsejam sins. NO TOP TEN LISTS OF ANY NATURE!
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of that. I was just following suit! It
won't happen again, I guarentee you.
Andrew Fors
afors@btigate.com
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2119
-----------------------------------
Sometimes a view from sinless eyes
Centers our perspective
And pacifies our cries
Sometimes the anguish we survive
And the mysteries we nurture
Are the fabrics of our lives
"Lines in the Sand"
Dream Theater - Falling into Infinity
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:48:57 -0700
From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
To: "'DT'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: JD
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=kbhq%l=KBHQ-971014084857Z-54919@ms.Kallback.com>
>> A moment of silence, please, at the death of the musical genius
>>John Denver.... :)
Word is Elton John will be re-recording Daniel as "Denver".
Release date 10/28.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:56:45 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Andrew Fors and digital sound cards
Message-ID: <199710140856.BAA20402@gms.gmsnet.com>
Hey Andrew, now that you are in ACK mode, do you feel the need to respond
to every single post? Or should we start a mailing list just for you?
:)
Yes, you can get sound cards for your PC that can accept SPDIF inputs and
some even accpet AES/EBU... Alesis makes on... Zefero boards are also a
standard... but you would pay more than you would pay for those MD
recorders of yours for one of those boards...
They do make DATs that are just as small as MD recorders... but again, you
are paying a little higher price because it is better sound quality.
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:12:19 -0700 From: Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com> Subject: Disgusted with many DT fans Message-ID: <34435393.2D40@goodnet.com>
That's right, in fact prog fans in general.
I wind up talking to prog fans all the time. Many times I just make conversation with them since they're in the bootleg trade and we're working a sale or whatever, yadda yadda yadda. But lately, I've tried to avoid talking to prog fans at shows, and I've tried to avoid chitchat with prog fans on the net, excepting those few who thankfully still seem to have a head on their shoulders.
Why?
Here's why: I contend that most prog fans are NO SMARTER about their music than fans of pop and trendy music. That's a pretty heavy duty accusation, and I take it seriously. I'm ashamed that it has become this way, in fact. And yes, I do have reasons why I can't stand talking to most prog fans anymore.
1. "The new album by [Queensryche/Dream Theater/Fates] is too commercial, they sold out, etc". This gets said WAY too often, whether it be about HITNF, FII, or whatever. And at the same time...
2. "The new album by [Queensryche/Dream Theater/Fates] is too inaccessible, too difficult to appreciate, I don't think it will grow on me, it's too far out there." I hear THIS too! Heard it about Promised Land for years, and still do! Heard it about ACOS and Awake. Heard it about APSOG.
3. "Neil Pert (I spell it that way because they pronounce it that way), he's just the best, man. There ain't no better." I don't even know where to begin with this one. Not only ought they to listen more carefully to Geddy, who clearly introduces Neil "Peart" rhyming with "fear", but it gets irksome and tiresome that the depth of their analysis of the music is just that. Ged and Alex usually don't even count... it's all about the drum solo, Tom Sawyer, and how stoned they were when they saw Rush the first time back in 1978.
4. More than half the people I talk to start telling me all these "secrets" they know about the bands (mostly Rush) which anyone who's ever even heard the word "internet" knows are all total bullshit. Give us a little credit, you wannabe losers! Neil does NOT have cancer! They did NOT play a co-headlining gig with Zeppelin in '79! Rush does NOT have 4 CDs worth of outtakes! There is NO secret message spread across all the albums (I loved the explanation on _that_ one.... not)! And Alex and Geddy are NOT gay... they're married and have rugrats!
Now meanwhile, I talk to tons of women who are almost otaku-level fans of musicians like Boyz II Men and Garth Brooks and they enjoy every new release, no matter how 'ordinary', because they know the band did what they do best... they follow their bands like loyal fans, learning birthdays and anniversaries and seeing shows in other states... they get on the net and find out more... they collect bootlegs... notice the strange difference between them and the prog fans? The difference is that most prog fans are WAY too full of themselves. We really have to learn what's important in life and what isn't, and start enjoying music for what it is rather than condemning it for not being what we expected. This isn't to say that we buy anything the industry feeds us... not at all; we're already discerning enough to choose the fringe bands we follow so closely over All-4-One or Elton John. But if we ever want our music to gain wide acceptance, we really have to change our backward attitudes... and it's the prog fans I'm addressing here.
Enough of the bullshit.
Enough of the judgmental condemnations.
Enough of assuming you know more about what the band intended than they themselves did.
Enough of calling EVERY new album either an inaccessible indulgence or a blatant commercial sellout. Music isn't a black and white situation. It's not one or the other. Somewhere, somehow, there HAS to be a realm of acceptability.
Come to think of it, at the very least, we're not the worst. I can think of one group of fans that are even more pedantic and pretentious and full of themselves than prog fans are... alternative fans. :) Oasis, Bush, Prodigy, etc... what a joke.
-- -Mike Bahr/Prism Records -durnik_@_goodnet.com -http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:14:24 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: SDV, television Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971014091140.4753A-100000@hoare.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, CLARK ABEL wrote:
> >posted to the 'jam that the "Images and Words" album sounded like the band > >had their presence on the album all equally divided, to which Clark Able > >replied and generated a long thread). :-) Therefore, I think that I'll > >write things more carefully. > > Dude, be as careful as you want; I can start a long thread with > anything. Hell, I'll start arguing with my own posts if I have to. That > -Clark (not Clarke Abel or Clark Able, BTW)
Sorry for misspelling your name. But I wasn't complaining about your arguing. In fact, I enjoy reading your posts, since you think that "Images & Words" is the best album they've released. :-) Ok. Now I'm gonna be flamed a lot here by the "Awake" lovers. :-)
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:25:00 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: MiniDisc Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971014092227.4753B-100000@hoare.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Andrew Fors wrote:
> On 13 Oct 97 at 6:31, ytsejam@ax.com wrote: > > > I also own a minidisc , and have recorded the whole fii album from downloaded mp3 > > files (I will still buy the album of course when it eventually gets released in the UK). > > I got these files from http://citadel.elender.hu/pod/rare.html, this site also has whole > > concerts in mp3 and are pretty good quality. One question though , How do you record your mp3's ? I normally just connect the line out from my sound card to the > > line in on the minidisc and record "analougly" , but I've heard that there is a card > > with a optical line out which can record digitally which would be ideal for recording > > to minidisc from a pc. > > I've never seen such a card, but I do belive it exists. I just use > an analog cable for my recording. Even with a digital port, I'd > probably still use analog, as I have an 18-foot cable running between > my PC and stereo. :)
There's a card called Zefiro ZA2 that has the things you're looking for. I think that it costs about $450 in the US. It can do a lot of desirable things for people working with digital audio.
Hope this helps, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:26:11 +1000 From: Luke <slslb@winshop.com.au> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: More FW PS Interpretations Message-ID: <344364E3.5518@winshop.com.au>
Here's some more intrepretations from PS.
Static Acts ````````````
"Opinions bent toward standard waves, Bleaching out divergent shades..."
I see this as;
"Commercial music tastes lean toward redundant, mundane crap, Neglecting any new, interesting styles that diverge from the 'norm'..."
PS is taking on a totally new meaning for me.
Luke.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:25:57 +1000 From: Luke <slslb@winshop.com.au> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Jamming via the JAM... Message-ID: <344364D5.2067@winshop.com.au>
> \\||// > ~~..'~ > ( \ ) Brandon Vaughn > \ c/ > __\/__ "The Mad Tabber" > / \ > _< . _ \ vaughn_b@popmail.firn.edu > \ `\ \ -' / \ \ ,,,_ > >|""O[|||||nn[:::< bvaughn@snowhill.com > /_,--- ._\ '''''~ > ~ | | > | | |
o | ___ | o----(UUU O| \ \ |~O> \|||||/ \ \ |_O> ~| \ / |~ \ \ \ \ (| 0 0 |) \ \ \ \ | L | / / ~* \ \ |---| / / ~* / \ \___ *** __/ / | ~0 \ / | |~* --*--*-- / ____x____ | ~* |:|::|:| | --------- | ~ |:|::|:|==0 | | | --*--*-- | --*---*-- | 0+ *********|:::|:| | | * *--*-- 0+ | * * | | * * | | * /~~\ * | 0 * \__/ * /|\ /|\ /* *\ /~|~\ ___/ \__ / ********* \ / \
Shit, it's like were jamming together via the Jam.
Luke.
PS. (I did this myself, I don't care if someone steals it.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:12:23 -0400 From: "Michael J. Emerson" <cthulhu@CYBERNEX.NET> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: 'Carved In Styx'???? Message-ID: <01BCD881.48CB11E0@EMERSON>
greetings, jammers...
i have a question that i'd like to throw out to the masses...
i just picked up 'Carved In Stone' by Shadow Gallery, and i've listened = to it a few times, and a thought just struck me:
is it just me, or do some of the vocal harmonies remind anyone of Styx? (example: listen to the vocals in the first 1:30 of "Don't Ever Cry, = Just Remember")
what's your opinion? we'd (well..._i'd_) like to know...
m.
p.s.: also, can anyone tell me an easied way to find some of this stuff = (Shadow Gallery, Enchant, etc.)...so far it's been a pain in the ass!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:39:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Greatest of Dream Theater. Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.971014082136.26640A-100000@rossby>
Hello!
Some of you had been noting which songs you would include and how you would arrange a "best of Dream Theater" mix. Well, I examined all my DT CDs, and carefully selected the best tracks from each CD which would make the best, most "well-rounded" collection, accurately representing Dream Theater and my tastes of my favorite songs.
So, here is the list I came up with, first in chronological order. I could not narrow it down below 190 minutes or so, so I figure that my "best of DT" collection would be best put on 2-100 minute cassettes. Even though I'm an Images and Words type of DT person (still is my favorite album), the most time on this collection comes from FII.....
Here are my selections from each CD:
WDADU: ----- 1) YTSEjam (mandatory!) 2) The Ones who help to set the sun. 3) Only a Matter of time
Images and Words: ---------------- 1) Take the time 2) Surrounded 3) Metropolis, part I 4) Under a glass Moon 5) Wait for Sleep/Learning to Live (these 2 tracks MUST be played back to back!)
...And no, I did NOT include "pull me under". More of a matter of personal taste and that I think it's exactly representative of DT.
Live at the Marquee: ------------------- 1) Bombay Vindaloo (hope I spelled this right!)
Awake: ----- 1) 6:00 2) A Mind Beside Itself (should be played consecutively, of course!) 3) Scarred
Awake singles: ------------- 1) To Live Forever (A masterpiece!) 2) Eve
A Change of Seasons: ------------------- 1) A Change of Seasons (certainly not the covers...)
FII: --- 1) New Millennium 2) Peruvian Skies 3) Hell's Kitchen/Lines in the Sand (again, should be played back to back) 4) Take Away My Pain (the best of the new "ordinary" ballads) 5) Trial of Tears
Again, I want to emphasize that this largely reflects MY favorites of DT, and may not be entirely represenatative of DT overall, but I tried to keep that in mind as well.....
Later I will post the exact order on the 2-100 minute cassettes that I came up with.
C-ya, Jon
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -Jonathan Case, graduate student Mailing Address: -School of Meteorology: (405)-325-6561 942 Deonne Circle -University of Oklahoma at Norman Norman, OK 73071 -Dept. Fax #: (405)-325-7689 (405)-364-7075 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Office: 1518 in Sarkey's Energy center; Norman, OK -73069- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: jcase@rossby.ou.edu || URL: http://rossby.ou.edu/~jcase ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:51:35 +0200 From: Pfaller Thomas <topf@mail.ops.co.at> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mini Disc Compression Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971014155135.006df078@mail.ops.co.at>
Hi
I read an essay about the compression of MD some month ago.
They use some knowledge about how the ear works. If one frequency has a high level there are certain other frequencies that can=B4t be heard if they are under a certain level. A similar effect is that you can=B4t hear some frequencies some time after (and even before) a peak takes place. The resolution of the ear seems to be lower in the very high and very low frequencies. These effects (and some more) are called psychoacoustics, and they use them to decide what information they can drop without changing what we hear too much. The interesting thing is that they have an algorithm which adaptively sets the resolution for each of the 3 parts they divided the sonic spectrum in. Even the frequencies where the three parts start and end are adaptive. This means that MD can even sound better (more detailed) than CD or DAT in certain circumstances. e.g if a single event occurs (just a drummer hitting one tom) the MD would use nearly all of it=B4s 16 bit resolution to capture the frequencies. A test in a german mag (Stereo Magazin) confirmed this. I tried it myself too(I recorded classical music where just one instrument played). My personal experience with MD is, that i can hear the difference quite clearly if i switch between MD and CD on my stereo. I tried the same thing on a cheap stereo at a friend=B4s place and the difference was nearly inaudible. So MD is quite close to the CD (try the same test with a tape deck, hahaha).
Sorry if some explanations were not clear enough, but I=B4m not that good in english :).
Bye Thomas
****************************************************** NIGHTFALL
Visit our freshly updated homepage: http://www.ops.co.at/~topf/nightfall.html
Now featuring sound samples!
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******************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:01:26 +0800 From: Elvis Bird <ebird@vianet.net.au> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3108 Message-ID: <34437B36.AD235C18@vianet.net.au>
how do i leave the list
Please private me
thanx elvis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:02:35 -0400 From: "Adam" <alpineone@mindspring.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Top ten lists / Damned sigs... Message-ID: <01bcd8a9$d2847520$732456d1@wingate.mindspring.com>
>One of the biggest ytsejam sins. NO TOP TEN LISTS OF ANY NATURE!
I agree wholeheartedly, and didn't Skadz even make this an official rule (as much as there can be rules on an unmoderated list) quite awhile back? And what's with the insane amount of quoting on the jam? Just for those who are non familiar with "netiquitte," <sp?> it's not necessary to quote 50 lines of text to say "Hey, rock on!" That's pretty annoying, but the most annoying is the .sig files some people have. We don't need to see someone's signature file five times every Jam, especially if it's of the obnoxiously-long variety. People write lyrics to entire albums in these things. :) I hate to single anyone out on anything like this, but if you take a look at the last few Jams you'll notice they've been about 90% quotes and .sigs from this one guy. :) No offense intended to that particular "guy," but it would help cut down on the amazing volume of the Jam if people would just follow common sense (aka, common courtesy) rules and not take up 15 lines of quoting and 10 lines of .sig for a two sentence reply. Take care all...
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:07:58 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: ForsJam Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971014140758.00aa2ef0@pop.enteract.com>
> 1) -gry words... NDTC > by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> > 5) Top 10 > by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> > 6) MiniDisc > by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> > 8) MD for bootlegging? > by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> > 12) Kevin Moore > by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> > 13) WDATU > by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> > 14) Website > by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
Maybe consider condensing these into one ot two posts... :) 7 in one jam tops even Damon or my own old time records.
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3111 **************************
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