YTSEJAM Digest 3112
Today's Topics:
1) J.D. - Rest in Piece???
by Matt Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com>
2) Re: Disgusted with many DT fans
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
3) RE: Miscellaneous fun
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
4) RE: Music Appreciation 101
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
5) RE: Miscellaneous fun (NDTC)
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
6) RE: At Fates Hands...interpretation?
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
7) RE:
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
8) Re: Disgusted with many DT fans
by "Steve Lehrfeld" <DREG@hutman.com>
9) RE: At a "lossy" for words
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
10) RE: Atlantic Records
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
11) DT is Hamburg
by Jason Breitweg <breitweg@porter.desy.de>
12) John Denver
by Electrasex <webmaster@electrasex.com>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111
by Toneadd9@aol.com
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
15) what about NY?
by kristopher long <long16@matrix.newpaltz.edu>
16) stuff
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
17) RE: stuff
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
18) Extra Savatage Tix (Birch Hill 10/17)
by <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng"
19) Re: stuff
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:12:56 -0500
From: Matt Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: J.D. - Rest in Piece???
Message-ID: <34438BF8.6E15@disknet.com>
> I just found out that John Denver crashed his plane into water
> somewhere(I don't even know where...). I never cared a lot for his
> music, but may his soul rest in piece, he was very talented in his
> own right. May his music and spirit live on.
Don't you mean rest in PEACE? I'm sure that was unintentional, but
considering the way he died, that is a pretty significant typo! Okay,
I'm no John Denver fan, but I find it so depressing when musical talent
is cut short by tragic events. How many great musicians have been lost
to plane crashs now? Too many...don't feel obligated to send a list to
the jam, since I think we know who most of them are.
On a related topic, someone mentioned JD loving to fly and dying doing
something he loved. I have to take some issue with that. As a
professional pilot who's been around airplanes and flying most of my
life, I must say that this IS NOT how most pilots feel. Yes, I love to
fly, but HELL NO I don't want to die in a plane crash. I want to die
peacefully in my sleep like most other sane people. Does dying while
engaged in a favorite activity make your death more enjoyable? I doubt
it. Example: a co-worker of mine was recently flying his personal plane
in Flordia when the engine failed. He landed in a canal, but the plane
flipped over and sank. He was under water for 15 minutes before rescuers
freed him. He arrived at the hospital brain dead and spent several days
on life support before "the plug was pulled." He totally loved flying
(as a career and hobby), but do you think he enjoyed his death because
"he was doing what he loved." I doubt it. Sorry if my tone sounds
pissy, I'm just trying to give everyone a pilot's viewpoint of a tragic
situation. Stepping down off the soap box.....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:36:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Disgusted with many DT fans
Message-ID: <01IOSKQNW4MG9OEKJ5@alma.edu>
> Enough of calling EVERY new album either an inaccessible indulgence or
>a blatant commercial sellout. Music isn't a black and white situation.
>It's not one or the other. Somewhere, somehow, there HAS to be a realm
>of acceptability.
>
> Come to think of it, at the very least, we're not the worst. I can
>think of one group of fans that are even more pedantic and pretentious
>and full of themselves than prog fans are... alternative fans. :) Oasis,
>Bush, Prodigy, etc... what a joke.
>
>--
>-Mike Bahr/Prism Records
>-durnik_@_goodnet.com
>-http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, I don't know where
you get off making so many tremendous generalizations about these apparently
(to you, not me) homogenous "prog fans". Then you post to this list with what
sounds like an accusation against every one of us.
Who the fuck cares how Peart's name is pronounced? Does that make you
better? You make fun of all the trivial little things that fans argue over,
and then you get your panties in a bunch over that? Besides all of this, you
seem to think it's the mark of a better fan to memorize the performer's
birthday, instead of arguing over the merits of the music. I don't care WHAT's
being said about the music, I would rather have that discussion with a fan of
any genre than waste my time worshipping a musician who's really no better than
me. And even I, with all of my self-righteous posts of late, would never have
written that last paragraph above. How can you peg millions of people as
pedantic and pretentious and full of themselves based on one thing that they
have in common? (bad music.)
I don't even consider myself a "prog fan", but I get the impression
that your post was directed at this entire list. If it was not, then I
appologize; I didn't really mean for this post to come off sounding so harsh in
the first place. But I have no idea where you're coming from with most of that
stuff you wrote.
-Clark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:51:50 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: Miscellaneous fun
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-971014145150Z-18185@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
>> Megvettuk a papanak a CD-t: Barenboim (vagy valami ilyesmi) con-
>>ductolja a Rheingoldot, es Bayreuth-i felvetel, ugyhogy nagyon rossz
>>nem lehet. Harmincharom dollar volt, ugyhogy tizeneggyel kellene be-
>>szallnod.
><<snip>>
>
>haha. I bet I am the only person who is not Hungarian who understood this.
>
>/me feels special for knowing foreign languages
Kevin Madden, foreign language magazine's "Stud-o-the-Week". :)
>
>Cd of the Day: Iron Maiden - Piece of Mind
Has your Maiden listening gone up since seeing Dickinson? Mine has...
>
>
>Green Bay Packers - The Quest to Repeat - Detroit Red Wings
>4-2 4-0
>at Chicago vs. Calgary
I see we're going to have to renew the hockey rivalry this year...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:57:04 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: Music Appreciation 101
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-971014145704Z-18192@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
>On Sat, Oct 11, 1997 at 07:18:52AM -0700, Pat Sullivan wrote:
>> And just because the internal intricasies of the music are beyond their
>> comprehension, the music doesn't mean as much to them?
>
>I totally agree here. The feeling, enjoyment, and perceptions someone gets
>from a musical piece isn't tied to knowing how it was created.
In fact, I have found that the most useful criticism comes form those
who know nothing about theory, but have a "good ear" for melody and
dynamics in music. Knowledge of theory does NOT mean you know a good
song when it bites you on the ass... :)
>
>> I'm not disagreeing with your post. I'm one of those people who cannot
>> listen to music in the "background"; I pause the CD player when I leave the
>> room so I don't miss anything, even if it's a song I've heard a thousand
>> times before.
>
>This is why Dream Theater doesn't make for good "background music".
>Whenever I have it on, I want to listen to the music more than concentrate
>what I'm working on. When I don't want to think, I'll throw something more
>basic in.
>
>Being that I recently started to web design on the side with a friend of
>mine (he's the graphic artist, but I do a lot with the overall content
>design), I actually like to throw CD's in like Dream Theater, Rush, etc....
>while I'm working on the content, because they often get my mind going
>creatively.
I find this interesting, since I do the same thing while coding. If I
listen to something simple - like Hammerfall, for instance - I find
myself being less inspired. I can also go TOO far, though - Coltrane and
Bach just don't work at the office - I have to pay too much attention to
them...
Mike
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:23:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
To: Ytsecadabra! <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: Miscellaneous fun (NDTC)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971014102224.4691A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
> >> Megvettuk a papanak a CD-t: Barenboim (vagy valami ilyesmi) con-
> >>ductolja a Rheingoldot, es Bayreuth-i felvetel, ugyhogy nagyon rossz
> >>nem lehet. Harmincharom dollar volt, ugyhogy tizeneggyel kellene be-
> >>szallnod.
> ><<snip>>
> >
> >haha. I bet I am the only person who is not Hungarian who understood this.
> >
any of you speakers of Hungarian out there interested in teaching me how
to say "i want to rip off your underwear with my teeth"? i'd appreciate
it... :)
szia,
id
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:00:03 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: At Fates Hands...interpretation?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-971014160003Z-18332@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
>Amazingly short, yet incredibly to the point I believe (I even made it
>my signature). If anyone knows what these lyrics actually refer to, then
>I'd like to know.
I don't know, but that's an interesting analysis. I think, judging by
the subject matter of the rest of the CD, that the lyrics in question
are referring to the general "blindness" of other people to feelings of
others. Good lyrics, IMO, should be open to multiple interpretations, so
who can say who's right?
>
>Also, what's the going opinion on Divine Wings Of Tradgedy by Symphony
>X? I've downloaded soundclips from Dr.Mosh and HeadyMetal and from what
>I've heard it sounds pretty good.
I've enjoyed this immensely. It comes off as a combination of Rainbow,
Yngwie, and Queen to me - three bands I like - so I found a pretty
instant connection. I love the singer's voice, and the vocal
arrangements are top notch. The guitar work is excellent, too.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:07:19 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE:
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-971014160719Z-18348@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
>>Ok , I think i know what Clark is talking about. Lets look at 2 completely
>>different songs:
>>
>>Learning to Live
>>
>>and
>>
>>Smells Like Teen Spirit :)
>
>But don't forget, in this case the analysis is biased. There are a large
>number of people out ther (I know many of them) who don't hear emotion in
>DT's music. They hear intricate, precision playing, but not much more.
>
>I daresay a pro-Nirvana, anti-DT fan would give a much different analysis
>(and would select different songs, I'm sure).
True, and the emotion of a piece of music is determined as much by the
listener as the artist. If the listener cannot connect with the emotion
the artist is trying to convey, then the listener will probably not like
the music.
For example, I tend to like moody, darker music - I am less likely to
like happier, lighter music.
One point to bring up in this analysis, though - LTL is much more
emotionally complex than "Smells..." is, but that doesn't mean it's any
more successful in getting it's point across. "Smells..." does that very
well.
Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________
>E-Mail: psull@ici.net
>WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
>IRC: DDictator ICQ: 2049374
>______________________________________________________
>There cannot be a crisis today; my schedule is already full.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:19:11 +0000
From: "Steve Lehrfeld" <DREG@hutman.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Disgusted with many DT fans
Message-ID: <1335291130-6462759@hutman.com>
> From: Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
>
> That's right, in fact prog fans in general.
> Here's why: I contend that most prog fans are NO SMARTER about their
> music than fans of pop and trendy music.....
I agree somewhat; Prog fans are notoriously hyper-critical.
-steve
**************************************************
DREG Records - New & Improved Progressive Rock
http://www.hutman.com/dreg/
= Home of the Kansas Tribute compilation =
**************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:15:22 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: At a "lossy" for words
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-971014161522Z-18357@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
>On the Eve of Destruction, Kevin Madden said:
>>
>>
>>Can not one of the three of you spell "lousy" ???? (Not lousily, thank God)
>>I understand Marcelo is not a native English speaker, but the other two
>>of you...I thought you all have invented something new!
>
>Lousy compression is when you pipe your shitty $20 boombox through a Pringles
>can...
>
>:)
Doc, doc - get it right. That's lousy IMPRESSION. Lousy COMPRESSION is
when someone trades you a tape with the levels cranked up so high that
it's distorted, hence COMPRESSING the sound (or would that be
limiting?), and making for a lousy listen...
:)
Mike
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:21:23 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: Atlantic Records
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-971014162123Z-18365@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
>I found the last paragraph particularly disturbing...
>
>>>But his most crucial strategy was aimed at cultivating new artists. He
>>>chopped away at the label's ballooning roster and focused on the acts he
>>>knew he could turn into winners. "We used to throw things against the wall
>>>and see what would stick," Azzoli said. "Now we put out fewer records and
>>>work them harder."
Actually, that is _EXACTLY_ what Atlantic used to do - they didn't
develop artists, they ignored you for a few albums, and if you didn't
take off on your own, they dropped you. (Look up "Wrathchild America"
for a good example of this)
Mike
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:33:03 +0200
From: Jason Breitweg <breitweg@porter.desy.de>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT is Hamburg
Message-ID: <199710141633.SAA17001@porter.desy.de>
Hello boys and girls,
Well today I picked up my ticket for DT in Hamburg, Germany. The show is on
December 7th at 8pm in the Docks. A sucky location but the only place
not too small (or too big) for the band to play in in Hamburg.
Tickets were 43DM (about $25). Hopefully more German shows will be
announced soon. Talk to you all later, take care.
Jason
-- Jason Breitweg, breitweg@amzeus.desy.de, http://www-zeus.desy.de/~breitweg "Heavy Metal ist nicht tot!" - Kai Hansen (September 17,1997 Hamburg, Germany)------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:36:57 -0400 From: Electrasex <webmaster@electrasex.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: John Denver Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971014123657.0068eab4@ee.net>
I'm not a John Denver fan, but I believe in having some respect for someone who just died. I can't believe that Mindspring has sunk this low http://www.johndenver.com/ I'm about to send them an email detailing how absolutely dispicable and desperate they appear to me now after this stunt.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:53:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Toneadd9@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111 Message-ID: <971014125131_1599398693@emout17.mail.aol.com>
how do i get on the jam. just e mail of chat room whats the dill, pickle i have read these post 4 2 mos. and never posted
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111 Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.971014132906.92586C-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 Mike Bahr wrote:
> > Here's why: I contend that most prog fans are NO SMARTER about their > music than fans of pop and trendy music.
[deleted]
I agree with you 100% on your entire post. Maybe that's because DT is one of the few prog bands that I like (along with GC and KX, if you want to call them prog). At times, I've noticed SOME prog fans adopt a sort of "high-brow" or condescending attitude toward other genres of music. But I don't think this is necessarily something in prog per se. Prog just allows more ready justifications for their assertions ("oh, that's easy...it's only in 4/4 time...etc). I think most die-hard fans of any genre have trouble seeing past the fact that the music they like is merely their preference and not truth. I know I suffer from that illness when people put down Poison, Motley Crue, etc. I find myself thinking, "Oh, well they're just uptight" or "they're just jumping on a bandwagon," etc, when in truth they feel just as strongly about their music as I do about mine. Their music is no better or worse than mine. I have reasons for disliking their music and they have reasons for disliking mine, and that's fine. The world keeps on a spinnin'. As I've said before on this list, if you don't like it, listen to something else. Well said, Mike Bahr.
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:48:02 -0400 (EDT) From: kristopher long <long16@matrix.newpaltz.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: what about NY? Message-ID: <199710141748.NAA00164@matrix.newpaltz.edu>
i'm not really up to date on all the tour dates, but is DT really not doing any shows in New York, their home state? what's going on here? i have to go all the way to connecticut, on my girlfriend's birthday to see them!? they said they would come back to the Chance in poughkeepsie, didn't they?!! this sucks.
Kris Long "Listen buddy, when my rocks are red I don't put on a concert. I find a nice, quiet place and lick myself!" ---Triumph, the Yugoslavian Mountain Hound insult comic, from Conan O'Brien, commenting on John Tesh's concert, live at Red Rock. "Dream Theater is good... FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!!!!! thank you folks, that's all I got!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:11:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: stuff Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971014140402.18301C-100000@bdmserver>
We got ragged on in the biweekly email list SFK (note I did not write this, so dont flame me):
start----- Can someone explain to me why Dream Theater fans are so anal? In the DT newsgroup/mailing list they've been falling all over themselves to rip apart and over analyze the new album, which I think is great. Over indulgent threads from the use of the word "baby" to Desmond Child helping out make these DT fans look as bad as Trekkers! People, lighten up! Music is made to be enjoyed, not studied for a thesis. end-----
In response to Mike Bahr: Sure some people believe rumors immediately and accept them as fact. I think that happens with everyone.
People have a right to give their opinions. If everyone thought every album by every group was great then this would be a very boring world. So if people want to give opinions using words as commercial, sellout, etc then they are allowed.
Your post sorta makes it seem like you think you are a god and what you say everyone must follow or obey. Yes, you do do everyone a favor with all the great boots you put out but that doesn't make you any better then the rest of us.
Fates news: In a different mailing list (the canadian radio show) they say Fates will be releasing a live 2CD set and a live video from the APSOG tour.
Savatage news: In one of the 3 mailing lists I got today, it says when the band tours the US next year they will mainly stick to the south and east. They also won't be playing Magellan in its entirety. I guess that means that they are playing it in its entirety in Europe? I guess I shall find out Saturday night. That is if the stick to the same set.
|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |===================================================================| | AL East Champions Baltimore Orioles-Next step, the ALCS! | | Washington Redskins 3-2 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:26:12 -0400 From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: stuff Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-971014182612Z-18438@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
>Savatage news: >In one of the 3 mailing lists I got today, it says when the band tours >the US next year they will mainly stick to the south and east. They also >won't be playing Magellan in its entirety. I guess that means that they >are playing it in its entirety in Europe? I guess I shall find out >Saturday night. That is if the stick to the same set.
That's the impression I've had so far - They're doing the Euro set on the warm up tour. We also might get Jon singing HotMK!
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 10:05:05 EDT From: <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng" To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Extra Savatage Tix (Birch Hill 10/17) Message-ID: <vines.3hH8+IkrEoA@tcx.tcco.com>
I have 2 extra Savatage tickets for this Friday's show at the Birch Hill. If you'd like them, please email "cng@tcco.com".
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:49:05 -0500 (CDT) From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu> To: Ytsecadabra! <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: stuff Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971014134334.25476A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Pat Daugherty wrote regarding one of Mike Bahr's posts:
> Your post sorta makes it seem like you think you are a god and what you > say everyone must follow or obey. Yes, you do do everyone a favor with > all the great boots you put out but that doesn't make you any better then > the rest of us.
whoa... i gotta draw the line here. pat, that certainly seems like kind of a cheap shot. mike was writing about some ideas that he believes in, and in essence ranting about how he thinks people should act. that sort of thing is certainly not uncommon on this list, and mike's post was at least well written (for all you grammar nazi's out there). no one ever said (including mike) that we have to do what he says just because he makes CDs. mike has made posts like this since before he even started his little CD projects (yes, i've been here *that* long) - so let's not be too quick to jump down his throat, eh?
wow, two posts in one day... i'm a machine. eat your heart out pitstatic. :)
peace, id
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3112 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:59:58 EST