YTSEJAM Digest 3113
Today's Topics:
1) Minneapolis Show
by kylania <kylania@radiks.net>
2) "Work them harder"
by "Brown, Neal Patrick" <W059@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
3) re: K-Rock
by <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng"
4) proofreading myself
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
5) Tempest (on Magna Carta)
by <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng"
6) mailing list recommand?
by AG <agcheung@hknet.com>
7)
by jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk)
8) stuff II
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
9) over-analyzing and stuff...
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
10) Angry, hungry, and...and...gry?!?!
by Nick Bogovich <bogie@Sage-Enterprises.com>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111
by Brian <DreamNDay@dreamt.org>
12) the mike bahr state of the union?
by bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
13) Mindspring's random acts of selfishness.
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
14) johndenver.com
by kylania <kylania@radiks.net>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3112
by Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
16) rap music
by "incorrigible chicken of depression ;(" <afn39111@afn.org>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:01:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: kylania <kylania@radiks.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Minneapolis Show
Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.96.971014135942.11460A-100000@sr.radiks.net>
Hi all,
Me and a friend are driving up from Nebraska/Iowa to see the Nov
2nd show in MN! (Just ordered tickets!! Yippie!). Any jammers getting
together before the show? Or after? Let me know.
Dave
-- "They just took away all my promises, make them take away my pain. You took away my hero. Will you take away my pain?" -J. Petrucci for J.E. Petrucci------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:03:32 CST From: "Brown, Neal Patrick" <W059@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: "Work them harder" Message-ID: <14OCT97.15183878.0061.MUSIC@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
In the last digest, Richard Rivera had something about the article about Atlantic...I wrote in about the phrase "work them harder"...I think you're right, now that you point that out. Still, the guy could have used a better phrase, right? =) If what you're suggesting is true, that's rea lly cool for the bands that are straddling the line between academia and commercialism, such as OFB. (The really esoteric ones are still fucked by the record labels anyway!)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 10:49:10 EDT From: <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng" To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: re: K-Rock Message-ID: <vines.3hH8+MNsEoA@tcx.tcco.com>
>From: Brian <DreamNDay@dreamt.org> >To: ytsejam@ax.com >Subject: K-Rock > >If anyone knows the phone number of 92.3 K-Rock >in New York, please let me know.
Why stop at just K-Rock. The place to go is the Howard Stern show - broadcast around the country and into Canada! I think I heard Howard comment on a DT riff once after coming out of a commercial. Lets face it, Howard Stern IS K-Rock.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:12:13 -0500 (CDT) From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu> To: Ytsecadabra! <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: proofreading myself Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971014141035.28762A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, alex fraser wrote:
> least well written (for all you grammar nazi's out there). no one ever
oops... that figures... i try to make a crack at the grammar nazis, and i go and do it with bad grammar...
there. i admitted it. leave me alone.
szia, id
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 10:50:45 EDT From: <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng" To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Tempest (on Magna Carta) Message-ID: <vines.3hH8+WPsEoA@tcx.tcco.com>
Did anyone else waste their money on "The Gravel Walk"? This is horrible. I think the electric fiddle is the lead instrument on this CD. I just assumed that being on the Magna Carta label, that it was progressive metal...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 03:42:27 +0800 From: AG <agcheung@hknet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: mailing list recommand? Message-ID: <3443CB23.4123@hknet.com>
do you know any mailing list recommand?
Cheung from Hong Kong
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:50:58 -0400 From: jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk) To: ytsejam@ax.com Message-ID: <v01540b01b0697904f879@[128.197.7.162]>
>Capitalism + art = poor artists and rich clowns. Don't confuse the current economic system (including the record industry) with capitalism. Good artists (such as Dream Theater) would not be poor under capitalism (nor are they now).
>Disgusted with many DT fans >That's right, in fact prog fans in general. This was an interesting post. Mr. Bahr made some interesting points. I don't agree with all of them, but he was not far off. Even I've had some contact with a few "prog fans," and it's made me question whether I'm a prog fan. Someone who used to like Queensryche told me that he stopped liking them after _Hear In the Now Frontier_ (after listening to the album only once). After arguing with him about the albums merits (of which there are many, _especially_ the lyrics) he continually refused to acknowledge anything good about the album. Then he asked, "When are they going to make a sequel to _Mindcrime_?" Then I knew he might as well quit being a Queensryche fan anyway. I could tell more stories, like an on-again, off-again friend of mine who claimed to know everything about Dream Theater and didn't know who John Purdell and Duane Baron were. He also had such a holier-than-thou attitude that he used to say, "I don't think Dream Theater should become popular; some people just don't deserve to get into them;" he also got upset when the first album "came out domestically" (he referred to when import copies started showing up in North American stores long before it finally came out in North America). I haven't talked to him recently, but I heard he doesn't like _Falling Into Infinity_. The band shouldn't worry. Also, it's hard for me to acknowledge sometimes, but there are some massively succesful artists/albums that are excellent. I love the Beatles, and they're about as mainstream as they go. Genesis' _Invisible Touch_ album is owned by millions of people who couldn't tell you who Tony Banks or Mike Rutherford are. So, generally, I disagree with Mr. Bahr in that I believe prog fans generally know more about their favorite music than the average person. That, of course, doesn't mean that Garth Brooks, Billy Joel or Madonna don't have their huge fans. I also agree that just because there's a consensus among prog fans doesn't mean that that consensus is correct. Alex Lifeson is so underrated that some Rush fans don't give him the respect he deserves (including Les Claypool of Primus). I could say a lot more on this topic, but I'm sure I'm taking up too much bandwith. I just want to say in closing that, despite my status as pariah, I am almost the opposite of the type of fan Mr. Bahr described. (Perhaps that is one of the reasons.)
Jeff Falk jefffalk@bu.edu now playing on Jeff's stereo besides _Falling Into Infinity_: Queensryche _Empire_ (another great "sellout" album)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:02:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: stuff II Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971014155504.18301E-100000@bdmserver>
Some Angra news that I read today stated that Columbia was considering signing Angra. I had once heard Sony was. I wish some company would sign them so we could get their cds cheaper than import price...
Alex wrote: >whoa... i gotta draw the line here. pat, that certainly seems like kind >of a cheap shot. mike was writing about some ideas that he believes in, >and in essence ranting about how he thinks people should act. that sort >of thing is certainly not uncommon on this list, and mike's post was at >least well written (for all you grammar nazi's out there). no one ever >said (including mike) that we have to do what he says just because he >makes CDs. mike has made posts like this since before he even started his >little CD projects (yes, i've been here *that* long) - so let's not be too >quick to jump down his throat, eh?
Mike's posts are often controversal and bring up debate here on the jam. The tone in his post about prog fans basically indicated to me that if you don't have his views then you are worth anything. Call it a cheap shot or whatever but that's my opinion. In the last digest alone there have been a couple posts backing up Mike and a couple against him. And I'm sure there will be more...
|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |===================================================================| | AL East Champions Baltimore Orioles-Next step, the ALCS! | | Washington Redskins 3-2 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:55:38 -0400 From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack) To: "That Darn Mailing List Thingy" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: over-analyzing and stuff... Message-ID: <19971014095725.AAA8984@sni.pananet.com>
I'd just like to clear this up, becuase it seems we analyzers are misunderstood. (Life, has misunderstoooood...oh, sorry) It's not like we sit with our headphones listening day and night writing down every little occurence in a song. Its just that thru repeated listens you naturally notice things. And as time goes by, you pick them up a lot quicker, and thats that. And when we find something that we think is cool (say the repetition of a theme in another key, etc..) we post here for other ppl that might find it interesting.
Does this mean that those who don't do this won't like the song as much? hell no. Does this mean those who do this are missing the over-all feeling of the song? (As Chris would say) Bullshit. I still 'just listen' to music, but with time i just naturally pick up these things. And sometimes they don't make a difference in how i see the song...other times, the heighten the experience...
The perfect example is King Crimson's "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream"...I didn't find that song so amusing until i realized the middle section was the 2 'trios' playing in different time sigs.
And why do you think when you open your Music Appreciation book, it has analyses of a bunch of classical pieces? Because it does, in fact, help you appreciate the music better...notice the word 'better'. You can still appreciate the music without analyzing.
Ernesto
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:58:18 -0400 From: Nick Bogovich <bogie@Sage-Enterprises.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Angry, hungry, and...and...gry?!?! Message-ID: <113A23EBF1F6D011B8A90060971611D519CBB8@BUDLITE>
Brandon Vaughn <vaughn_b@chipola.cc.fl.us> asked:
"Can anyone help me with this riddle? I heard it over a year ago and still can't figure it out. The riddle goes: "There are three words that end in -gry . . . angry, hungry, and what? It is a word that you use almost everyday." Another version I have heard is that "if you have listened closely to what I have said, then you already heard the answer." Does anybody know what the answer to this stupid riddle is, or is it wrong."
I believe the answer to that is "gry" - supposedly it's the stuff you find in between your toes after you take off your socks. That's the only answer I've heard to it.
Laters, Bogie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:03:39 -0700 From: Brian <DreamNDay@dreamt.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111 Message-ID: <3443FA4B.243E@dreamt.org>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:12:19 -0700 ]From: Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com> Subject: Disgusted with many DT fans
Amen. Really, why can't people just like music because they like it? I mean, if they REALLY like it, those posers who like Prodigy and Bush and Wu Tang Clan "because so and so likes them" or because they want to be popular don't count. But I feel that people have to open their minds a little. Am I the only true Metallica fan in the world that likes Load? (To an extent that is). While I do find You Not Me to be an irritatingly annoying song (Does that make sense?), I like FII a lot. Just because the songs don't all have a 5 minute instrumental section doesn't mean they're not good music. Really, people, take a listen to the lyrics to Just Let Me Breathe. They could be talking about their own fans just as much as they are talking about the Nirvana and Bland Lemon fans. Sheesh. Any one on here remember a young man by the name of Rip Zero? Ol' Mario had to leave the jam because he couldn't take this shit. And don't everyone go posting for me to unsubscribe. I know how, I can do it on my own if I choose. There are a lot of intelligent people on this list and I enjoy reading their posts, but some people just piss me off.
> Maybe consider condensing these into one ot two posts... :) 7 in one jam > tops even Damon or my own old time records.
I don't think I've even done 7 at once! :) ========================================================================
"Are you gonna bark all day, little ----- doggie, or are you gonna ---- ------------- ---- bite?"-Micheal Madsen, ---- - ---- Reservoir Dogs -- - - - - - - - -- "Years of pain I will take and hone - - - - - - - Manifest with your broken bones - - -- - -- - - My heart bleeds for none but my -- - - - - - - - -- own"-Machine Head ---- - - - ---- "None But My Own" ---- ------------- ---- Brian ----- DreamNDay@dreamt.org ========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:19:23 -0500 From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: the mike bahr state of the union? Message-ID: <19971014201922734.AAA194@bforst.busprod.com>
> Come to think of it, at the very least, we're not the worst. I can >think of one group of fans that are even more pedantic and pretentious >and full of themselves than prog fans are... alternative fans. :) Oasis, >Bush, Prodigy, etc... what a joke.
Sounds like a challenge to me :)
Come on Ytsejammers... lets show that we can be just as pedantic and pretentious as the alternative fans! NO MORE fascinating discussions about Minidiscs or sound compression; cd-roms and cd-rw's; NO MORE tolerance for other people's tastes; how the music industry works or guitars or drums or singing or keyboards or anything having to do with our own personal experiences with music!
NO MORE active involvement in the group... sharing concert information.. giving each other places to crash or rides to the shows, calling up radio stations to get the band more airplay... NO MORE T-Shirts, bootlegs, copying tapes for other people...NO MORE promoting new music, sharing old music stories, joining fantasy football leagues together or even <gasp>... talking to each other in private email about NDTC! How dare we even think about using this list to make new friends!
FROM NOW ON... its only gonna be us whining about how "Dream Theater is the greatest group ever and why can't the stupid people just realize that?!!" We'll stalk the band wherever they go asking them over and over again "Where's Kevin? Who's the new guy? What's this song about?" We'll be totally uninformed and loving it!
With that kind of content I can see us driving away most of the rational people on this list and getting the volume down to a stagnating one or two digests each month. Maybe if we're even really fanatical and obnoxious we can swing a corporate sponsership from Atlantic!
Wouldn't that be swell?
OR.. we could stay the way we are, have fun, meet people; talk about lots of cool shit see some really great concerts by an awesome band!
Ytsejammer since 1995
.... Bruce Forst bforst@busprod.com tulsa, oklahoma
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:26:15 -0600 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mindspring's random acts of selfishness. Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971014132613.0083e480@postoffice.syspac.com>
Electrasex wrote: >I'm not a John Denver fan, but I believe in having some >respect for someone who just died. I can't believe that >Mindspring has sunk this low http://www.johndenver.com/
I don't know the story behind this, but yeah, it's pretty fucking low. Anyone see that they're advertising IE 4.0 on CD (fucking wow, right?) for like $6 or something. Too many people are too damn numb to learn how to download a fucking program, that they have to resort to paying money for the damn thing. It's truly sad. If you can't even download a file STAY OFF THE INTERNET, YOU'RE CLOGGING THE HIGHWAY!!! Same rules apply to the ytsejam with regards to the FAQ and unsubscribing.
Mindspring sux, DT better tour the Southwest, and oh yeah... Metal rules. (oh no, Rick....don't :)
Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:31:28 -0500 (CDT) From: kylania <kylania@radiks.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: johndenver.com Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.96.971014152948.23222A-100000@sr.radiks.net>
>From: Electrasex <webmaster@electrasex.com>
>I'm not a John Denver fan, but I believe in having some >respect for someone who just died. I can't believe that >Mindspring has sunk this low http://www.johndenver.com/ >I'm about to send them an email detailing how absolutely >dispicable and desperate they appear to me now after this >stunt.
Umm.. I must be missing something, but what stunt? So Mindspring is hosting that domain? It's been registered since 1995, what's the big deal? Did they have something else other than a mirror of their main page there eariler?
/me wonders
Dave -- "They just took away all my promises, make them take away my pain. You took away my hero. Will you take away my pain?" -J. Petrucci for J.E. Petrucci
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:34:58 -0700 From: Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3112 Message-ID: <3443D772.560E@goodnet.com>
ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
Boy... I probably should have thought things through more carefully with that inflammatory post last night. For the benefit of the Jammers: it was the content on alt.music.d-t that brought it on, NOT the content of the Jam, which ranges from annoying to brilliant depending on what kind of mood we're all in. :)
Clark Abel writes.. > > Enough of calling EVERY new album either an inaccessible indulgence or > >a blatant commercial sellout.
> What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, I don't know where > you get off making so many tremendous generalizations about these apparently > (to you, not me) homogenous "prog fans". Then you post to this list Well, I do talk to prog fans of many sorts pretty much every day. Part of the line of work, on the one hand, and for a long time it was something I enjoyed, on the other hand. And in fact there are a great many such fans that I still enjoy talking to. But for the majority of the "casual" conversations, certain very grating statements have just gotten out of hand, like the ones I mentioned in that post.
> Who the fuck cares how Peart's name is pronounced? Does that I'd say Rush does, or else Geddy wouldn't have started very specifically introducing it at shows beginning 5 years ago. And believe me, when you hear people bragging how much they know about Rush and how often they've seen Rush live, and then they call him "Pert"... if my eyes rolled any harder they'd pop out of their sockets.
> seem to think it's the mark of a better fan to memorize the performer's > birthday, instead of arguing over the merits of the music. I don't No, I think it's the mark of a better fan to look for something to enjoy in each album, and not something to condemn. The reason I brought up the birthday thing is because those pop fans are _enjoying_ the bands, their fandom, and the music. They're not looking for something to go wrong... they're expecting things to go right. Not every album will be great, and the ones that aren't great will simply not get added to the CD shuffler, and they'll wait for the next one. Not like here in prog-land where the release of a HITNF or FII has the cynics saying "This is the END of the line for DT/QR! After a release like that, they're probably gonna go straight to rap-funk on the next CD!"
> pedantic and pretentious and full of themselves based on one thing Just trust me on this one. :)
> If it was not, then I > appologize; I didn't really mean for this post to come off sounding so harsh in
Oh, I expected emotional responses, so I take no offense to your having given just that.
Steve Lehrfeld writes... > > I agree somewhat; Prog fans are notoriously hyper-critical.
Bingo! Exactly the word I was looking for.
Richard Rivera writes... > [deleted] > I agree with you 100% on your entire post. Maybe that's because DT is > At times, I've noticed SOME prog fans adopt a sort > of "high-brow" or condescending attitude toward other genres of music. Man, you folks have the best thesauruses, really. :) Condescending and overly-highbrow were other words I had intended to include in the original post. I definitely echo Richard's statements.
> their preference and not truth. I know I suffer from that illness when > people put down Poison, Motley Crue, etc. I find myself thinking, "Oh,
Ironically, back in the late '80s, music was FUN.
Pat Daugherty writes... > Can someone explain to me why Dream Theater fans are so anal? In the Anal! Damn, I _really_ gotta get a vocabulary expander. It's like deja vu all over again.
> out make these DT fans look as bad as Trekkers! People, lighten up! Don't worry folks. We'll NEVER be as pedantic, pretentious, and full of ourselves as Trekkers are. :) Four of my friends are Trekkers, and when anything Trek-related happens, the response is enough to roll your eyes like slot machine cylinders. And they are WAY rude to the actors at conventions. I met Jennifer Lien (Kes I believe) at a con and she was relieved that all I did was shake her hand, chat about the day, offer her a mini-candy bar, and let her go about her way. Most of the fans were shoving stuff in her face to have signed, asking about plot trivia that she didn't even begin to understand, commenting on how her character should be better played, etc. I wouldn't even show up if I knew that was in store for _me_! Ironically, she's no longer on Voyager. Though I doubt the con atmosphere was what caused that. And I have to offer a big thumbs-up to the Jam in particular because you guys have been very good about treating the band civilly backstage.
> People have a right to give their opinions. If everyone thought every > album by every group was great then this would be a very boring world. Did I say they were all great? No... I didn't even qualitatively rate them. I do however, contend that there is a happy medium between being an Aerosmith-esque sellout and being more fringe and indulgent than APSOG was.
> Your post sorta makes it seem like you think you are a god and what You lost me here. My post actually didn't offer much in the way of self-glorification. I didn't need to.. I wasn't the issue there. The issue in my mind was the behaviour of the fans.
> all the great boots you put out but that doesn't make you any better
I didn't even bring that up...
> Fates will > be releasing a live 2CD set and a live video from the APSOG tour.
Now THIS kicks ass! I missed the show by mere hours!!
Alex Fraser writes... > whoa... i gotta draw the line here. pat, that certainly seems like > of a cheap shot. mike was writing about some ideas that he believes Thanks, Alex. Pat's cool though... it's all just verbal fencing when it all comes down to it.
> mike has made posts like this since before he even started his > little CD projects (yes, i've been here *that* long)
It's kinda cool that people even remember that! :) -- -Mike Bahr/Prism Records -durnik_@_goodnet.com -http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:45:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "incorrigible chicken of depression ;(" <afn39111@afn.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: rap music Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.971014163911.69367A-100000@freenet2.afn.org>
Rap music is cool. You just have to look to find the good stuff. So I provide the following list of stuff I've heard with rapping that is really interesting musically.
Buckshot LeFonque. Takes the jazz/hip hop thing that almost took off where it's meaning to go. Got instrumentals, r&b songs, and some pretty kicking rap music. Branford Marsalis on sax (though I don't usually like Branford, he shines here). Two albums, self-titled and Music Evolution.
Vernon Reid. Guitarist from Living Colour goes out into metal/jazz/rock postmodern rap realms. Album is MISTAKEN IDENTITY and is a must-have for any fan of good music.
Public Enemy. We all know about these guys. They're funny or their harshly real. Me, I like FEAR OF A BLACK PLANET more than any other of theirs that I've heard.
I have heard good things about GangStar (featuring DJ Premier of Buckshot LeFonque) and the Brand New Heavies as well, but have yet to actually hear them.
How's that?
"If I did that, I would lose him. I would much rather lose you." Wish that anyone cared. the asylum: http://www.afn.org/~afn39111
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3113 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:59:58 EST