YTSEJAM Digest 3115
Today's Topics:
1) Mindspring / John Denver
by "Adam" <alpineone@mindspring.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3106
by GGarces239@aol.com
3) More nonsense from another surly prog fan
by Über Cabe <caber1@concentric.net>
4) Why aren't DT fans shiny and happy?
by "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
5) Behind Bahrs
by Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
6) my Homepage
by "Larry McCarley" <mclarry@iwvisp.com>
7) Re:
by Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net>
8) Charlie Dominici / Majesty
by Jonathan Lenaway <jlenaway@umich.edu>
9) G/f and DT
by Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net>
10) Top Tens!!!!!!!!!
by Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net>
11) Whoa!
by Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net>
12) Minidiscs, spelling... Ah, and some music stuff too.
by Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
13) Re: TAMP and Speak to Me demos from Japan FII
by "Pedro Ordonez" <pedrord@quik.guate.com>
14) Mindsprings John Denver site
by Jeff Forte <araby@ibm.net>
15) WOW!
by Dave <buster@ee.net>
16) Mike "Pandora" Bahr's post
by "Brown, Neal Patrick" <W059@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:40:57 -0400
From: "Adam" <alpineone@mindspring.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Mindspring / John Denver
Message-ID: <01bcd8f2$3cd1d100$eb8145cf@wingate.mindspring.com>
You guys need to chill about Mindspring and www.johndenver.com. I
worked for Mindspring this summer and that site has been that way for over a
year. Do you seriously think a nationally known ISP would do something like
that right after the guy was killed? Use your goddam brains. It was an
inside joke with a few of the employees. You're not gonna find a more
classy outfit than Charles Brewer (the founder/president) and the folks that
work for him. Never fails to amaze me....
________________________________
Adam Pye (Alpine)
alpineone@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone
(Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists.)
________________________________
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:46:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: GGarces239@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3106
Message-ID: <971014184125_1933058014@emout08.mail.aol.com>
Does anyone have the dates for Texas?
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:39:35 -0700
From: Über Cabe <caber1@concentric.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: More nonsense from another surly prog fan
Message-ID: <34441ED7.5197@concentric.net>
Hi everyone,
> From: Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
> Subject: Disgusted with many DT fans
> 1. "The new album by [Queensryche/Dream Theater/Fates] is too
> commercial, they sold out, etc". This gets said WAY too often, whether
> it be about HITNF, FII, or whatever. And at the same time...
Yeah, right on, man! APSoG is too commercial. Jeez, only 54 minutes!?!
FW sold out BIG TIME!!! ;)
--- > From: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com> > Subject: ForsJam> Maybe consider condensing these into one ot two posts... :) 7 in one jam > tops even Damon or my own old time records.
But that doesn't top Dave King's all-time high! Well, he tied it. I remember it was about the beginning of the summer in '96. The first 7 posts were from Dave, and the next 7 jams were about Dave. :) (no offense Dave :) --- To that guy who said he only liked the first four tracks off of Tiamat's Wildhoney...Go listen to Visionaire and A Pocket Size Sun. Both of those songs fucking kick ass. :) (I see Mickey Mouse with a lolley pop & he's giving me the middle finger)
John McCabe this quote is for all those who hate Mike right now... "I know I suck, and I accept that" Mike Bahr 10/6/97 :-) heheh
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Date: 14 Oct 97 16:56:41 -0700 From: "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Why aren't DT fans shiny and happy? Message-ID: <199710142356.QAA29300@mailseq4.us.oracle.com>
Mike Bahr makes an interesting statement: >It makes me wonder why DT shows can't be that >way. Now I don't mean they should be silly, or cliche, but they could at >least begin to have that positive, fun, uplifting atmosphere. I mean, >why should they have all the fun while we argue about the time signature >in The Mirror and whether or not Kevin has nut cancer? :) I think that fans of complex music, including but not limited to progressive music and that of DT, tend to expect more from the music they listen to. They/we are not casual music fans - let's face it, music means an incredible amount to us! Therefore we tend to take music-related "things" very seriously, we tend to analyze the music more, we tend to dig deeper to find meaning in songs (and not just lyrics), and yes - we tend to be very critical of the music we hear, even the music we love. This description will not characterize everybody here on the jam, but certainly many of us. In general I find this to be a very positive phenomenon, even if it sometimes (or often) leads me to be disappointed with a piece of music. It makes me cherish the music that lives up to my "standards" (whatever those may be) all the more. It makes me feel that I can put some of that "mystical magic" that is music into concrete terms so that I can reason out why I like it. It makes me feel that the thousands of hours I have put into music (be it listening, going to concerts, discussing, composing, practicing, etc) are enriching me and expanding my knowledge and insight into my dearest of passions. For some reason humans love to assign a notion of "worth" to what they do. It manifests itself everywhere, from the prices of the things we buy to the grades that teachers have slapped on our projects since day one in grade school. This notion has certainly infiltrated the music world, and often rears its head as a top 10 list on the jam ;). But seriously, how many times do you hear "band X is way better than band Y", or "Person Z is the greatest guitarist who ever lived?" Perhaps it has to do with an inner desire for self-validation. Without rambling any more, I think that this over-serious approach to music, music-making, music appreciation, and in general, all things music, is what keeps a DT concert atmosphere a little on the serious side, as compared to, say, a Garth Brooks concert. In my opinion, there are negatives to this situation but I appreciate putting a lot into and getting a lot out of my musical experiences. Either that or we're all a bunch of tight-ass idiots. :) thanks for listening, -Neil. PS - Someone recently mentioned the notion of enjoying music on many different levels, and I think that is a very key concept. Personally, I can enjoy lots of different music - but I really do seem to connect with various artists at very different "levels".
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:08:26 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Behind Bahrs Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971015000826.00ae1008@pop.enteract.com>
Bahr'd: >> Who the fuck cares how Peart's name is pronounced? Does that > I'd say Rush does, or else Geddy wouldn't have started very >specifically introducing it at shows beginning 5 years ago.
I think he's sort of trying to say you're a bit oversensitive about the name thing, Mike. If Rush minds, then let them deal with it, but i shouldn't interrupt your digestive system.
> No, I think it's the mark of a better fan to look for something to >enjoy in each album, and not something to condemn. The reason I brought >up the birthday thing is because those pop fans are _enjoying_ the >bands, their fandom, and the music. They're not looking for something to >go wrong...
This seems to be a trait more common to adolescents... I don't think it's a prog thing. People who are socially immature or maybe musicians who are insecure about their own music might act like this. I did it back in the glam days, if someone did a weak solo or whatever. When I'd spend forever trying to reach a higher technical level and something comes out that's not as demanding, I used to think I'd been betrayed since I'd FINALLY get there and the band would subscribe to the more popular "Technique sucks... more makeup, and less solo!" mentality.
>> out make these DT fans look as bad as Trekkers! People, lighten up! > Don't worry folks. We'll NEVER be as pedantic, pretentious, and full of >ourselves as Trekkers are.
Okay... in your initial post you called alternative fans pretentious and pedantic or whatever... I took that as sarcasm, because that would be the kind of accusation your stereotypical "prog fans" would toss out. It seems you may be putting some stock into your statement, when you then go on to say the same thing about trekkers (not that I am one or anything... :) I understood where you were coming from, until your last paragraph, where you ventured into realms of (dare I say it) hypocrisy. If you are upset with prog fans for being immature, condescending, and judgemental, it would make sense for you to display contrary habits yourself. Please clarify, in case I'm missing a deeper sarcasm.
>From: Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com> >To: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
> Sure, no sweat. Actually, for conveinence's sake, I'll echo this to the >Jam... not to worry, I won't post anything that makes you look bad. :)
BWAHAHAHAH! You, make ME look bad? I'm sorry, but I'm already the biggest asshole on this list. Only I can make me look worse! Besides, my response to you was on the fluffier side of "nice" if you were to ask me... :)
> Those fans, who seem mundane and unenlightened to us, are actually >enjoying music a hell of a lot more than we are, it would seem.
Some progheads could lead you to this belief. I still contend that they're the vast minority. The things you mentioned "good fans" doing are some of the more common things that we do.
>really gets me thinking. It makes me wonder why DT shows can't be that >way. Now I don't mean they should be silly, or cliche, but they could at >least begin to have that positive, fun, uplifting atmosphere.
I disagree with this. I think if Dream Theater was given as much radio and MTV play as Garth is given (more on the Country Video stations) it wouldn't be any challenge for them to fill a stadium. This is the stuff that the media controls. Once the music is as "good" as its peers, it's the media that has to push it to everyone. If Garth wasn't on the radio ever, and wasn't on TV, he'd probably have only a few more fans than DT. ---------------------- >Vernon Reid. Guitarist from Living Colour goes out into metal/jazz/rock >postmodern rap realms. Album is MISTAKEN IDENTITY and is a must-have for >any fan of good music.
KILLER ALBUM! ---------------------- >From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> >Something tells me this would be a fun one to learn in sign language, too. :) >-d
ROFL! ----------------------- >From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst) >Subject: the mike bahr state of the union?
>Sounds like a challenge to me :)
Awesome post! :)
- CWP
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:15:40 -0700 From: "Larry McCarley" <mclarry@iwvisp.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: my Homepage Message-ID: <199710150017.RAA19784@odin.ax.com>
You like sign my guest book http://members.tripod.com/~illusivedreams/illusive.html or http://members.tripod.com/~illusivedreams/dream.html
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:32:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Message-ID: <199710150032.TAA16332@endeavor.flash.net>
>With the talk lately of the television noise in SDV, I have a question. Can any >of you tell when a TV is on nearby? I can sense this hum, almost more of a >feeling than a sound. Friends that I've mentioned this to think I'm nuts. I can >walk into a place, and if there's a tv on nearby, even in another room, I'll >know. Just curious if this happens to anyone else. > >-Brian
No my firend. You're not nuts. I do the same thing. I think it's because it's such a high pitched frequency that some people can hear(feel) it and some people can't.
-Loren
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:24:23 -0400 From: Jonathan Lenaway <jlenaway@umich.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Charlie Dominici / Majesty Message-ID: <34440D36.2B434EF8@umich.edu>
Does anyone know the status of Dream Theater's ex-lead singer Charlie Dominici? He had a pretty decent voice too, has he ever moved on to a different project? Also, are there any recordings available from Dream Theater from the Pre-Dream Theater days? I'm looking for Majesty tapes, or anything I can get my hands on.. thanks... (Also, what is the name of Kevin Moore's new band called)
-- Jon Lenaway
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:39:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: G/f and DT Message-ID: <199710150039.TAA18654@endeavor.flash.net>
>I played FII for my girlfriend this past weekend on my visit home, and she >liked 'Hollow Years'. She also liked 'Just Let Me Breathe' but laughed at >James' voice. I quote, "He sounds like he's trying so hard to sound >'rough'! <laugh> His voice is too good to be in this band. It just >doesn't match up." (She did think his voice matched up with HY, though) >I've been working on her for nearly two years now, nearly force-feeding her >DT nonstop. It sounds as if she might cave in any day now. =)
Heh heh. Too bad she's not like my g/f. It was just the opposite. She knew that I idoled(sp?) Rush and she kept forcing DT down my throat saying that I would love it. I hated it all until I heard SDV. Now look at me! I love 'em more than her! :)
Loren
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:40:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Top Tens!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <199710150040.TAA19033@endeavor.flash.net>
>10. Boston's Greatest Hits >9. Return of the Jedi - SPecial Edition SDTK >8. Johnny Lang - Lie to Me >7. Megadeth - Cryptic Writings >6. Styx - Retrun to Paradise >5. Final Fantasy VII - SDTK >4. Scorpions: The Mercurty Years >3. KMFDM - KMFDM >2.Dream Theater - FII >1. Poison - Crack a Smile bootleg
Ummmm....isn't there something about a rule about top whatevers? Or should I just shut my mouth now?
-Loren
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:52:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Whoa! Message-ID: <199710150052.TAA22722@endeavor.flash.net>
>3. "Neil Pert (I spell it that way because they pronounce it that way), >he's just the best, man. There ain't no better." I don't even know >where to begin with this one. Not only ought they to listen more >carefully to Geddy, who clearly introduces Neil "Peart" rhyming with >"fear", but it gets irksome and tiresome that the depth of their >analysis of the music is just that. Ged and Alex usually don't even >count... it's all about the drum solo, Tom Sawyer, and how stoned they >were when they saw Rush the first time back in 1978.
Wait a minute man. Now I don't know if I speak for other people, but what got me into Rush at first was Geddy. Jesus Christ that man can play bass. It seems like him and the bass are one. I don't think you should be so judgemental of people without hearing others opinions. I think Rush is one of the greatest bands to exists, not JUST because of Neil! They are ALL great. They click together like NO-ONE I've ever seen. Sometimes I just stare at the 20+ albums of theirs I have and am amazed that those three guys have been around so long and written so much material together. In fact, I respect Neil more for all the lyrics that he's written FAR more than his drumming. When I listen to Rush I don't sit there and analyze every second of the song. I enjoy it. In fact, I enjoy the FUCK out of it!! Rush's music to me is more of an experience than 'just listening to music'.
So flame away!!! :)
-Loren
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Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:37:06 -0300 From: Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Minidiscs, spelling... Ah, and some music stuff too. Message-ID: <3401D0D2.7A99BA0C@geocities.com>
Hi there jammanoids,
Mr. Ptacek wrote: > Hehehe okay... name me ONE media that doesn't get fucked when you > leave it in a car on a hot day. Your records, tapes, cds (Especially cd > cases! They turn into weird surreal sculptures!), DATs, disks, zip and > jaz cartridges... you name it. They all get warped by heat. Your
Yeah, I know that, I've seen really cool "sculptures" from cassette tapes that were forgotten right in front of a car's windshield... :) I will say again, I don't know anything about this matter. But that friend of mine I mentioned talked about the media of the minidisc (not the cases or other plastic surfaces, which obviously are) being sensible to heat, thou that the digital recording itself would be fucked up by heat. Ah, just forget it... :) Anyway, I won't be spending the (BIG) bucks a Minidisc player cost around here... Even though the only place besides my bedroom where I listen to music is my car, and I have a CD Player there... :) How much one of those things cost in the US? I asked a girl from Kenwood some time ago how much those things would cost (here), and she said "around $600 the player, $1000 the read-write player, and $1200 the 6-disc changer for cars..."
Lauren Glenn wrote: "CD-R's aren't the same as CD-RW's. From what I've heard about CD-RW's (which isn't too much), is that they won't work in most players except for the CD-RW's. It's not the fault of the discs, just the players. In time, newer players will probably be designed to play them."
oops, I didn't notice that "W" after the "R". :) Is that what I'm thinking, a rewrite able CD? If it is, can someone (privately) explain how that thing works? Now, to a completely (well, not completely) different matter: I heard DVD's can read CD's, but can't read CD-R's, right???
Kevin Madden wrote: "Can not one of the three of you spell "lousy" ???? (Not lousily, thank God) I understand Marcelo is not a native English speaker, but the other two of you...I thought you all have invented something new!"
Unfortunately for you, I was completely in my mind when I wrote "lossy", and so where the lots of other guys who also did. :) BTW, I think sometimes being a non-native speaker means that you spell words with more accuracy than a native speaker... :) I don't mean typos. Well, at least I don't make that confusion with "their", "they're" and "there" that's so common to see... :) Hehehe, I frequently find myself trying to spell correctly some not-so-oftenly used words in portuguese... :)
Now for some musical content... That CD "Merry Axemas" was released today (10/14), right? Anybody know the release date for that Vai box set??? I can't wait to have my hands on it. Also, is there a release date for the re-release of Trans-Siberian Orchestra??? I don't want to miss it this year. :)
-- []'s /**********************************************\ |* Marcelo Vanzin *| |* vanzin@geocities.com *| |* http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ *| \**********************************************/
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:29:13 +0000 From: "Pedro Ordonez" <pedrord@quik.guate.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: TAMP and Speak to Me demos from Japan FII Message-ID: <199710150230.UAA28056@mails.quik.guate.com>
Hi!
I'd like the lyrics to TAMP and Speak to me, please.
Also, just a question, how can I listenm to mp3 format?? Do I need a MD player or just some software??
Thanks!! *************************************************** * Pedro Ordonez * * Guatemala * * email: pedrord@quik.guate.com * ***************************************************
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:26:12 -0400 From: Jeff Forte <araby@ibm.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mindsprings John Denver site Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971014222612.006ab530@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>
>>I'm not a John Denver fan, but I believe in having some >>respect for someone who just died. I can't believe that >>Mindspring has sunk this low http://www.johndenver.com/ > >
Well....what I was expecting when I went to this link was something in just plain bad taste. John Denver had a tendency to be kicked around a lot by the public. While I didn't listen to his music, I did like the fact that he did a lot on "The Muppet Show". Because of this he was a small part of my youth.
What I see here isn't degrading, but a silly domain that I am surprised a big name company would choose to market itself. I find it dumb mainly because I wouldn't sit there and go....hmmm....I wonder what Mindspring's web site is called....let me try johndenver.com.
Doesn't work.
Jeff aka Chambers
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:45:06 -0400 From: Dave <buster@ee.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: WOW! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971014224506.00696440@ee.net>
Is it my imagination or have there been some incredible discussions in here lately? This place never ceases to amaze me....sometimes it's just full of bickering and stuff, then other times we'll get on these waves of real musical discussions with substance! I really dig the way some of you have been pouring your heart into the different points of view on music styles of all sorts and the ways that music on all levels of talent can be comparable from an "emotional" aspect to the listener.
Combine this stuff with all the DT content and concert date tips lately, and you have one kick-ass mailing list! It makes it worth getting through the occasional weeks when this place is a battle zone :) hehehe
Also wanted throw in a little DTC opinion here: I may be wrong, but it looks like the positive reactions and discussions of FII have finally outweighed the negative propaganda that was started early on. Great to see that...I love the new CD. The songs will create a great mix when combined with all the older material live.
October 28th DT live in Columbus Ohio!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!! SEE YOU THERE!!
QR stuff: I'm not mentioning this to brag or anything of the sort, I'm just very excited that I was chosen to design some of the graphics for Michael Wiltons (of Queensryche) personal web site!! I designed the animated chrome TriRyche graphic and the black TriRyches with red glow on his page, and I feel very fortunate to have my work on his site. If anyone is interested in seeing it, you can link to it from Surgical Strike (my QR site) at http://www.dhpc.com/ryche/ in the LINKS section of course :) I had to tell you guys because for one it's not everyday that one of your favorite celebs asks you to work on his web site, and also because some of you in here are the only people on Earth that can understand why I'm so psyched about this!
buster http://users1.ee.net/buster/ - My DT site, needs update and redesign BADLY http://www.dhpc.com/ryche/ - My QR site, FRESH and finally complete
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:54:49 CST From: "Brown, Neal Patrick" <W059@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Mike "Pandora" Bahr's post Message-ID: <14OCT97.23666848.0162.MUSIC@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
Re the post-heard-round-the-world....Mike, I agree with the spirit of your post certainly...Of course, the bit about Peart's name is a little picky, but I'm sure it matters to Neil (now, if only he know how to spell his own name...heh heh). I sure as hell never knew that, though I'm not a Rush-head. There's one thing I feel needs pointing out though. I don't care for pop music (i.e. Bush, et cetera), and I never will. When I was ten I listened to the Top 40 stations but my tastes have matured (not in the sense that FII is more mature ;) ). My dog is challenged by three-chord music, but it bores the bejabbers out of me. (Don't hate me because I'm intelligent! =P ) Seriously, though....some people can go to whatever country concert they like and have one helluva time. Good for them. I'd be retching in a corner. Sorry. (This is also partially aimed at anti-analysis people.) I can't help it, but when I listen to music, I hear how it's being played. Yes, I *can* just listen to a song for the hell of it. King Crimson's Larks Two is a good example. That song fuckin ROCKS, and it's in one of the goofier time sigs I've ever heard, and I still have no idea what scale the opening riff is, even though I've tried a lot to figure it out. It's not like I can't enjoy the song or anything until I know what damn mode it's in, I'm just curious. Some people say that it's linked rhythmically to Stravinsky's Le sacre du printemps. I listen to Le sacre every once in a while, and I always think of Larks Two, because they are somewhat similar. But I can still just pop it in and crank it if I want, and hope the speakers don't blow. =) Light Fuse And Get Away (a song by OFB, for those unfamiliar with KC) is the same way. There is some seriously demented shit going down rhythmically in that song! Not only do I enjoy trying to figure out the rhythms ("...attention, attention...") but I love to put it on every once in a while just to air-geetar and hand-bang and all that other fun shit. What does this have to do with Mike Bahr's post? I forget. Heh. Oh well. =) Getting back to the subject, I know people who really do just try to rip music apart without appreciating what's good about it. I know I consider myself a prog fan, but that's no t how I listen to any type of music. When FII came out, I was amazed by New Millenium....and repulsed by You Not Me. It's not a bad song, really, but it's an underachievement for this group...if Ken Griffey hits 20 homers for an entire year, folks are gonna wonder about him. If Randy Johnson hits half that, he'd get the Cy Young award, eh? There are things about YNM to recommend them to the prog listener (mostly what Derek's doing) but the damn wah-wah-ed to death guitar riff just doesn't appeal to me. Sorry this is so long....stream of consciousness is fun =) I hope this how at least somebody feels!
P.S. I got the new Spock's Beard album today...wowie =] kicks ass....not at all like the new Genesis album, which featured the same drummer, but Banks/Rutherford didn't let him play...shoulda just used a drum machine.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3115 **************************
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