YTSEJAM Digest 3114
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Minneapolis Show
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111
by Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
3) Re: Miscellaneous fun (NDTC)
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
4) dt texas shows
by Brian Cox <lerxst@metronet.com>
5) stuff iii
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
6) Online CD Sources
by "Braun, Randall (CAP, ITS, US)" <Randall.Braun@gecits.ge.com>
7) Angra
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
8) hammerfall
by Conrad Chi <uchic00@mcl.ucsb.edu>
9) Re: Mike Bahr on prog fans
by "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111
by Brandon Elhai <belhai@drew.edu>
11) oops...NDTC...
by Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
12) Re: Genesis tour dates and one in particular :)
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
13) New DT convert
by NightCast <NightCast@usa.net>
14) Atlantic Records
by "Tom Baddley" <tbaddley@ontheair.com>
15) check out my dt page
by "Larry McCarley" <mclarry@iwvisp.com>
16) Gentle Giant - The band that lived for time signatures :)
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:47:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
To: Ytsecadabra! <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Minneapolis Show
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971014154446.10675A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, kylania wrote:
> Hi all,
> Me and a friend are driving up from Nebraska/Iowa to see the Nov
> 2nd show in MN! (Just ordered tickets!! Yippie!). Any jammers getting
> together before the show? Or after? Let me know.
> Dave
i'm all for a MN gathering of some sort. i should have a group of at
least 5 coming with me... but i haven't actually lived in minneapolis, so
i'm not familiar enough with downtown to suggest something close and cheap
(other than the burger king that's further down on 7th st. heh...) is
anyone else (brian?) interested in a gathering? and can i find stuff like
this on that ytse-gathering website, and if so what is the URL again?
sheesh... enough posting...
id
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:48:07 -0700
From: Mike Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111
Message-ID: <3443DA87.33A4@goodnet.com>
Chris Ptacek wrote:
> A very interesting if completely (seemingly) non sequitur post. :)
> Can you maybe go into more detail on the jam about what exactly made you
> explode this time? What was the straw that broke the camel's back?
Sure, no sweat. Actually, for conveinence's sake, I'll echo this to the
Jam... not to worry, I won't post anything that makes you look bad. :)
It was the general content of the past few weeks on the newsgroups
alt.music.dream-theater. I think a particular thread called "DT goes
Michael Bolton" finally encapsulated a great amount of what was
irritating me. :)
[reference to an argument with a seemingly narrow-minded fan]
> Because of things like this, I'm inclined to give even the most bass
> ackwards prog fans a chance to explain why their narrow minded views are
> right... usually I find that these people are all intelligent, and not as
> set in their ways as you may think.
"and the truth shall set ye free." :) I do think that getting on the
Jam is the single best thing a DT fan can do for themselves, if for no
other reason than to see that their own struggles to identify with
today's music are echoed by others like them.
Some people are pressured into these
> beliefs because popular music "insults" them, in the same way that the
> guitarists from Blind Melon insulted technical music in an interview.
> people view these things as a personal attack.
Hell, I sure viewed that article that way. :)
they follow their bands like loyal fans, learning
> >birthdays and anniversaries and seeing shows in other states... they get
> >on the net and find out more... they collect bootlegs... notice the
> >strange difference between them and the prog fans?
>
> No, I don't.
Those fans, who seem mundane and unenlightened to us, are actually
enjoying music a hell of a lot more than we are, it would seem. They
have the proper perspective on it, they're not so hypercritical or full
of themselves, and they enjoy the music they like to _hear_ and if a bad
album comes out, rather than asserting that the band is finished, they
just sort it to the back of the CD rack and await the next one.
I think the biggest difference is the Country fans, especially
hereabouts. As one might guess, Arizona is very big on country... the
top three radio stations are all country, and country bars, clubs, and
the like are plentiful. And while I can't get into the music much
(though I gotta admit Garth is a pretty good songwriter and musician),
the unmistakably positive vibe I get from these people is something that
really gets me thinking. It makes me wonder why DT shows can't be that
way. Now I don't mean they should be silly, or cliche, but they could at
least begin to have that positive, fun, uplifting atmosphere. I mean,
why should they have all the fun while we argue about the time signature
in The Mirror and whether or not Kevin has nut cancer? :)
-- -Mike Bahr/Prism Records -durnik_@_goodnet.com -http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:05:05 -0400 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Miscellaneous fun (NDTC) Message-ID: <199710142105.RAA18440@wi.cs.wm.edu>
> any of you speakers of Hungarian out there interested in teaching me how > to say "i want to rip off your underwear with my teeth"? i'd appreciate > it... :)
Something tells me this would be a fun one to learn in sign language, too. :) -d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:11:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Cox <lerxst@metronet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: dt texas shows Message-ID: <199710142111.AA13740@metronet.com>
just my luck, dream theater is playing (tentatively) 4 shows in texas and i am going to miss all of them. i will be following phish and moe. around that week. i *may* be able to fit the houston show in, but i dont think so.
so, someone else is going to have to come up with DATs of this tour. me and my decks will be taping phish and moe. (who encourage taping by the way)
<><><><><><><><><> Brian V. Cox (lerxst@metronet.com) <><><><><><><><><> <>rush\dreamtheater\kingcrimson\phish\moe.\toriamos\echolyn\queensryche>
"The man or woman who is insensitive to the spell of this performance really isn't fit to live in civilized society for it is one of the wonders of the world" -Frank Granville Barker <><><><><><><><><>DAT Taper/Trader - Email me for list<><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><><><> http://www.metronet.com/~lerxst/ <><><><><><><><><>
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:14:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: stuff iii Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.971014171201.22384C-100000@bdmserver>
Mike Bahr writes: >Pat Daugherty writes... >> Can someone explain to me why Dream Theater fans are so anal? In the > Anal! Damn, I _really_ gotta get a vocabulary expander. It's like >deja >vu all over again. > >> out make these DT fans look as bad as Trekkers! People, lighten up!
Hello? I said that I did not write that statement about DT fans being anal and worse than trekkies. It was Kurt from the SFK mailing list who wrote it.
> Thanks, Alex. Pat's cool though... it's all just verbal fencing >when it all comes down to it.
Yeah, I'm a little argumentative today...
|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |===================================================================| | AL East Champions Baltimore Orioles-Next step, the ALCS! | | Washington Redskins 4-2 | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:07:03 -0500 From: "Braun, Randall (CAP, ITS, US)" <Randall.Braun@gecits.ge.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Cc: "'cthulhu@CYBERNEX.NET'" <cthulhu@CYBERNEX.NET> Subject: Online CD Sources Message-ID: <199710142126.OAA16118@odin.ax.com>
p.s.: also, can anyone tell me an easied way to find some of this stuff = (Shadow Gallery, Enchant, etc.)...so far it's been a pain in the ass!
The best place I've found for Prog-metal is from online CD sources: some are more prog, some more metal..ya just gotta look!
For Shadow Gallery & Enchant, you can get straight from Magna Carta: http://www.magnacarta.net/
Other places:
M&M MUSIC PROGRESSIVE ROCK : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/4500/
THE LASER'S EDGE: http://www.jersey.net/~lasercd/progmetal.html
KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND CD KINGDOM: http://www.knightsoftheround.com/home.htm
Impulse Music Import Compact Disks: http://www.primenet.com/%7Eshaun/impulse/
The above are sources that I've purchased from. All have been trustworthy; most are prompt; comparable or better prices than most CD stores--may depend if they have what your looking for onhand? ------------------------------------------------------------- The majors: IMO, all are trustworthy and fairly prompt. Less likely to carry hard-to-find imports/special releases, etc. Comparable or better prices than most CD stores:
CDUniverse: http://www.cduniverse.com
CDNow: http://cdnow.com
CDConnection http://www.cdconnection.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Other listings I have, although I haven't ordered from any of them (yet):
Noise Records: http://www.noiserecords.com/noise.html
Dominion Records: http://dominionrecords.com
Ghostland-Progressive Music Sources: http://ghostland.com/sources.html
Wildside Imports: http://www.netonecom.net/~wildside/
Christian Hard Rock Sources: (includes King's X; Galactic Cowboys; Atomic Opera; Saviour Machine) following:
RadRockers CD On-Line: http://www.radrockers.com/
Cross Rhythms Music: http://www.clearlight.com/~cross/music.htm -------------------------------------------------------------
-Randall Randall Braun - Configuration Services GE Capital ITS, West. Region. Dist. Ctr., Tulare, CA Phone (209) 685-4508 * FAX (209) 688-6696 email: Randall.Braun@gecits.ge.com **"Falling Into Infinity, and Maybe Beyond: Black Holes and Time Travel. (Is There a Past in Your Future? If not yesterday, then perhaps tomorrow...)"**
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:27:43 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Angra Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971014192635.201A-100000@hoare.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Pat Daugherty wrote:
> Some Angra news that I read today stated that Columbia was considering > signing Angra. I had once heard Sony was. I wish some company would sign > them so we could get their cds cheaper than import price...
Isn't Columbia a division of Sony? At least, I've seen many, many movies with "Columbia Pictures -- A division of Sony Entertainment".
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Conrad Chi <uchic00@mcl.ucsb.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: hammerfall Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.971014142425.18994A-100000@mcl.ucsb.edu>
has anyone heard the band HAMMERFALL? I am thinking about getting it, but I need recommondations first.
The hardradio sight (www.hardradio.com) says that Columbia might pick up RATT and has some interest in ANGRA! It also reports that FW will release a double live album plus video next year.
any word of that second LA show yet? Conrad
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:24:10 -0800 From: "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Mike Bahr on prog fans Message-ID: <199710142132.OAA03362@baygate.bayarea.net>
Mike Bahr wrote:
> Enough of calling EVERY new album either an inaccessible indulgence or > a blatant commercial sellout. Music isn't a black and white situation. > It's not one or the other. Somewhere, somehow, there HAS to be a realm > of acceptability.
I have to agree with a lot of what Mike said (I have quoted only a small portion above). Mike, your post really made me think. I really do sometimes fall into the trap of saying that this or that band "sold-out" (I particularly say it about Metallica), when really they're still making great music that is better than 99% of the stuff on the radio. And even if I don't like it as well as their past work, that doesn't mean it can't still be awesome.
I need to take a lesson from my favorite band, Yes. Yes released many outstanding albums throughout the 1970's (Close to the Edge, Relayer, Going for the One, etc.). Then in 1980, they released Drama, which was very different from their previous albums. A few years later, in 1983(?), they released 90125 which showed an even greater change in style. In my mind, Drama and 90125 are both classic albums. Even though I do not like them quite as well as some of the 70's Yes albums, I have listened to Drama and 90125 each many, many times. I consider them to be better than the best albums by many other bands. Yes's change in musical direction never bothered me all that much, because when I first started buying Yes albums (in the late 80's), I knew that Yes had done a lot of different things over their career, and I had the freedom to buy the albums in any order. If I wasn't thrilled with one, I could and buy another (assuming I had some cash). But now, after reading Mike's post, I wonder how I would have felt if I had been into Yes in 1980 when Drama was released, and in 1983(?) when 90125 was released. Would I have recognized these albums as the great works of art that they are, or would I have accused the band of "selling out" and refused to give the new albums a chance because they were radically different from their classic 70's work? I am afraid I know the answer, and it scares me.
Mike, you have definitely given me something to think about.
-Paul
---------------- Paul Humm humm@levy.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:32:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Brandon Elhai <belhai@drew.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3111 Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.971014172253.606450082A-100000@drew.edu>
On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Mike Bahr wrote:
> It was the general content of the past few weeks on the newsgroups > alt.music.dream-theater. I think a particular thread called "DT goes > Michael Bolton" finally encapsulated a great amount of what was > irritating me. :)
But isn't it expected that the behavior of a newsgroup is less civilized than a mailing list? I occasionally check into the DT and Rush newsgroups and there are just so many idiots on it. The ytsejam is the only mailing list I occasionally subscribe to and for the most part, people here are pretty cool. They know what they want to say. We sometimes see wastes of posts that say "DT rules...blah blah blah." But for the most part it's pretty civil. That's my take on it: you're reading comments by just a bunch of people who listened to an album maybe once or twice and then wrote a post about it.
Am I making any sense here? I didn't think so. :)
Also, I think why proggers get a bad rap is because of the music they listen to. It says something if all you listen to is prog. It means you demand a lot from your music. This attitude is not healthy because you're a hard person to please.
On another note:
The local record shop was giving all their promo posters out today. I could not find any DT FII posters, but I took 7 of the FII cardboard posters. The guy there said that he thought he saw some DT posters, but I looked really hard and could not find one. Man, I sure hope I didn't overlook any of them.
Brandon
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 23:38:57 +0100 From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: oops...NDTC... Message-ID: <3443F481.E71D5175@algonet.se>
> From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil> > Subject: RE: > > One point to bring up in this analysis, though - LTL is much more > emotionally complex than "Smells..." is, but that doesn't mean it's any > more successful in getting it's point across. "Smells..." does that very > well.
what's exactly the point brought across in smells? "wow, I can combine two words that rhyme without making any sense" or "look, mommy, I can play a chord!"
---- > From: "Steve Lehrfeld" <DREG@hutman.com> > Subject: Re: Disgusted with many DT fans > > I agree somewhat; Prog fans are notoriously hyper-critical.
There's nothing wrong with being critical, there's nothing wrong with thinking...
---- > From: Electrasex <webmaster@electrasex.com> > Subject: John Denver > > I'm not a John Denver fan, but I believe in having some > respect for someone who just died.
me too, but people die all the time...should we mention all of them on the jam? It's a shame when people die in general, the fact that he's a musician doesn't make it compulsory to start whining about his death in the jam...*oh, it's a shame when a musician dies...an airplane crushed in Uruguay a while ago and lots of people died, but fuck that, they were neither celebrities nor musicians, so why should we give a shit...*
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:55:01 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Genesis tour dates and one in particular :) Message-ID: <3443EA35.FF6@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Syrinx stepped out of the temple and wrote:
> .these are tour dates of Geneis's "calling all stations" tour.
[most of list snipped, except the part that interested ME :)]
>12/04/97 Boston, MA Orpheum Theatre
Great place to see a show. I've seen several others there (The Tubes, Todd Rundgren/Utopia). Acoustics are great. Holds more than many of the other closets around Boston.
I'd like to see DT play there. Nothing against the other places they've jammed in around here (none of which I've seen them in except the Strand), but to me, the most important thing TO ME is acoustics. It's a really old building, designed for the auditory experience :)
I could give a shit if the club is 'cool' or not. Or if there's a bar. If I want those things, I know where to go :)
With the Orpheum being a little larger than the places they usually play around here, it'd be a move in the right direction for them getting noticed again. It's time we started 'thinking BIG.'
I've heard local jammers mention other places, and I have nothing against those venues. It's just time we started to:
Think BIG!
Regards,
Jon
*------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*
"Drifting with the current This stream of life flows on" -- John Myung
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:45:56 -0600 From: NightCast <NightCast@usa.net> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: New DT convert Message-ID: <01BCD8B8.61BEAF40@tron>
Got this from a friend of mine... thought I'd share it with the jammers.. :)
Dearest James,
I will bring you the Aqua and Enya christmas CD's! I will also bring down the Chumbawumba CD because I think you would like it! Tubthumping and Amnesia are the coolest songs so far on it! I am going to listen to Dream Theater on the way to Salt Lake...sunday I listened to it and cried the whole way! As for the concert, if they do come to Salt Lake I would love to go with you...thank you for getting me hooked!!! I have one more message to read/respond to, so if you get this in time, respond! Lovingly yours...
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 16:20:59 -0600 From: "Tom Baddley" <tbaddley@ontheair.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Atlantic Records Message-ID: <01bcd8ef$73157260$7a622581@tbaddley.ibm.net>
>Actually, that is _EXACTLY_ what Atlantic used to do - they didn't >develop artists, they ignored you for a few albums, and if you didn't >take off on your own, they dropped you. (Look up "Wrathchild America" >for a good example of this)
Or check out the history that King's X had with Atlantic until last year, when they were dropped. I would have enjoyed seeing Atlantic "work" KX's music a lot harder. Oh well, I'm sure they are happy to be free of this label, and maybe Metal Blade will do a better job. A large record company with a large budget isn't always necessary...but support of your talent is. At least they will now have the freedom to create whatever music they would like, instead of being "guided" by Atlantic (ex: King's X 4th album). If Metal Blade encouraged and supported Fates Warning during the release of APSoG, then they'll probably do the same for King's X.
Tom
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:28:33 -0700 From: "Larry McCarley" <mclarry@iwvisp.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: check out my dt page Message-ID: <199710142230.PAA17505@odin.ax.com>
Hello you have to check out my new dt page ive made and also my bands page the adress is http://members.tripod.com/~illusivedreams/illusive.html for my page and http://members.tripod.com/~illusivedreams/dt.html for the dt page
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:29:52 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Gentle Giant - The band that lived for time signatures :) Message-ID: <3443F260.31DF@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
I'm way behind on jams, but...Roger asked for a review of Gentle Giant's Playing The Fool (or other GG shutff)
One of the, if not THE, best link for finding out just about anything on GG is:
http://www.cs.umass.edu/~barret/gentlegiant.html
They even SUCESSFULLY put a tribute album out to GG. There's a mailing list too. Carefull, I got slammed by some when I mentioned DT. For the most part, a lot of the people on there are cool, there's just a few that are like many on here (you know: "There is on DT, and none other"?)
Anyways, GG is considered by many to be one of the pioneers of Progressive Rock (progressive in the ELP sense :). They had formal training and love to play in all those wacky time signatures we all know and yearn for ;) They are not metal,, folks, though distortion can be heard now and then, if that still counts for anything. They play a lot of wacky shit, though, I'll tell ya. Be prepared :) 5-part a capella, for example. And ya just gotta love the Gentle Giant guy on the covers. Kinda what might happen if you took a teddy bear and slapped a lumberjack's face on it :)
Playing The Fool is a live double album, with a good assortment of stuff. Probably a godd place to start, as it'll give you the different flavors of GG. I happen to like it a lot, but I also like a lot of the studio versions of some of the songs on there. Other albums (this is highly subjective) to check are:
In A Glass House, Free Hand, Octopus
Oh, here's a little DT linkage for ya: Jordan Rudess almost played in DT, right? Well, Gentle Giant is one of his all time favorite groups :) So there you have it...
Hope this helped a little...
Regards,
Jon -- *------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*
"Drifting with the current This stream of life flows on" -- John Myung
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3114 **************************
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