YTSEJAM Digest 3106
Today's Topics:
1) Colorado DT Dates!
by "Tom Baddley" <tbaddley@ontheair.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3105
by Jonathan Lenaway <jlenaway@umich.edu>
3) Re: Music industry
by Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il>
4) asdf
by Rahel Choon-Kang Walther <rcwalthe@studi.unizh.ch>
5) Apology
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3105
by Matt Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com>
7) Re: SDV 3:30
by Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il>
8) WDADU
by Coop42@aol.com
9) Re: your mail
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
10) The SDV TV-noise thread
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
11) DT in Denver?
by NightCast <NightCast@usa.net>
12) Re: The SDV TV-noise thread
by alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu>
13) Re: Some info on BIG WRECK n stuff
by john jens <jjens@darkhorse.triad.net>
14) No more feedback
by neurotics@juno.com (Cindy F Westfall)
15) Re: cd-rw
by Shamus Jary Mcconney <mcconney@ucet.ufl.edu>
16) lossless/lossy
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
17) At a "lossy" for words
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
18) Et Tu, Mike Bahr?
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
19) Re: At a "lossy" for words
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:44:31 -0600
From: "Tom Baddley" <tbaddley@ontheair.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Colorado DT Dates!
Message-ID: <01bcd7f7$4767a500$b3622581@tbaddley.ibm.net>
Looking over the latest confirmed tour dates...I'm glad I moved from Texas
to Colorado last year. This tour, I will get to attend more than just one
show!! I haven't had the chance to see DT since they played down in Deep
Ellum (Dallas, TX) on the Awake tour. This was also my first time to ever
hear Fates Warning. Great show! The best show I've seen them play was at
the Agora Theater (Dallas, TX) in '93. They were so tight that night, and
the acoustics were perfect. I also caught them with Galactic Cowboys
outside of Dallas City Limits later in '93, but the sound system sucked
(however, I did get to meet John Myung!).
Anyway...I now live north of Denver (in Westminster), and will be driving to
both the Ogden Theater show (Denver, Nov 6) as well as the Colorado Music
Hall show (Colorado Springs, Nov. 5).
If anyone would like a ride to either show, please email me. I have a large
car (Intrepid ES) with plenty of room for at least 3 other people (4 if you
squeeze). Cigarette and/or other botanical substance smoking is O.K, but
not required...however, NO ALCOHOL allowed on the road trips. Sorry...my
car, my rules. Also, I don't have a CD player in my car right now, so if
you want to bring some music along, make sure that it's on cassette (yuk!).
Keep jammin'!
YtseBadd
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:12:00 -0400
From: Jonathan Lenaway <jlenaway@umich.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3105
Message-ID: <34425660.53DD@umich.edu>
> I noticed too that in space dye vest, in the middle of the >song,
>there is a hig pitched frequency, like the one a tv would make when its
>turned on. When i heard it i tought that the cd was defective, and was
>about to return it because it bothered me. But as time passed by i >didnt
>care anymore.
Am I the only one, that thinks this noise sounds intentional? Theres a
big of white noise pop before the "TV whine" that we've been
discussing.
I had always interpreted it as them wanting us to hear that it's a TV
changing channels into the sound bite. Sort of a train of thought
moving from point to point represented by channels jumping in and out on
a TV. A man (maybe Kevin?) conteplating his ability to bury a lost love
while maybe staring blankly at these old movies.
just a thought....
keep jamming...
-- Jon Lenaway jlenaway@umich.edu University of Michigan------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:05:57 +0200 From: Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Music industry Message-ID: <344254F5.6D24@Netvision.net.il>
Mike Pontrelli wrote: > > BTW: another thought.. the music industry.. > > It seems to me that every now and then there is a great band - for this > example I will use Pearl Jam - which has powerful, moving music. They > become very popular based on their own merit. Record companies and radio > stations notice this. So they book anyone with that sound... mostly > crappy music missing the power or emotion of Pearl Jam.. and the > airwaves are flooded with bands sounding like Pearl Jam, but missing the > power or emotino or whatever drove PJ to success. And the average person > is flooded with this stuff.. with the record companies and radion stations > thinking that these bands will share the same success as PJ and therefore > bring in lots of money. So these bands recieve instant success not based > on their merrit, but based on what the industry dictates will sell. And > many of these bands really lack telent and poetry, and soon die out. Then > another great band emerges, but with a different sound.. and the cycle > repeats, leaving the public thinking that Pearl Jam is dated, lumping them > into this group of "grunge", and calling it cheesey or whatever. > > This cycle goes on and on. It happened to metal. Remember when glam was > popular? They sounding like metal.. the industry thought it would sell > so they flooded everyone with it.. and after the shit glam bands ruined > the sound and integrity of metal.. people got sick of it and called the > entire genre cheesey and moved on.. especially when the radio stations > didnt play it anymore cus it wasnt 'in'. > > I love Queensryche and Images and Words and Journey.. but I hated glam.. > though the sounds were similar. > > All these people who say "we have free choice to listen to what we want".. > I dont think it is entirely true. how many people buy random CDs? If you > dont have the money.. yoiu listen to the radio.. and are trapped into what > the industry feeds you ... esp in areas with two radio stations (central > Pa). It isnt really free choice. unless you are rich.. and you can buy > every CD.. then you have free choice... even so.. there is a lot of great > stuff I want yet no one seems to sell it (MARILLION.. WDADU.. etc).. so it > seems like I dont have the choice to listen to that. > > Of course.. we have the Jam.. which introduced me to some very great music > that I would NEVER have known to exist.. cus the "industry" doesnt promote > it.
Couldn't agree more. Exactly what I think. > > OK.. I am finished rambling. We are victims of the industry. But the Jam > allows us to kinda break free. > > (though you gotta wonder if OFB will break free.. and the industry will > recognize them..and prog will fill the airwaves..
Now here you lost me. Notice that the common of all of the bands is that they: a) make simple music b) stick to a style through all of their albums. DT, on the other hand, change style and sound from album to album, and their music isn't simple. The common listener is looking for a catchy song to dance to, and not for a 8-minute song with an instrumental part. On the other hand, almost all of my friends listen to DT, so it's a matter of the people you hang with. Anyway, I really don't believe that DT's music will become the mainstream.
> > -ponte
-- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM
"I'm American, honey. Our names don't mean shit." - Bruce Willis on Pulp Fiction
"How can you keep your head and not go insane when the only light at the end of the tunnel is another train" - Mike Portnoy
Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:49:10 +0200 (CEST) From: Rahel Choon-Kang Walther <rcwalthe@studi.unizh.ch> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: asdf Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971013204752.15722A-100000@dwarf.studi.unizh.ch>
setytsejam mail ack
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:51:20 -0400 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Apology Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971013145120.010c9b10@sol.eng.fore.com>
Folks, I need to apologize for letting things get out of control last week. I was essentially off the list last year at this time, so I was unaware that anything was said about the Fan Club - but I know that ignorance is no excuse. I let a couple of points that I felt strongly about get way out of hand, and I was so pissed off at one point, that I was whining like a baby. I've accepted the fact that my method of exposure was inexcusable, especially since it basically just made me look bad. I've also had several intelligent conversations with a couple people who made me see the huge holes in my argument, such as my wanting the ytsejam to be officially recognized. I know that if this were to happen, we'd be giving up a lot of freedoms that we have, and I'm not willing to go that route. At the time, I hadn't thought about a lot of possibilities. Thanks especially to Chris Ptacek for having some intelligent refutes to my points.
Also, any mention I made of the Fan Club, were again in ignorance. You're right, I'm not a member, and I don't have the Christmas CD, and I was venting a frustration over this. Again, this is my problem, and I should have kept this off the list. And after all the replies that came in disagreement, the only leg I had to stand on was the fact that most of them were just people swearing at me. Although I don't like to see people argue with flames, it shouldn't have been the basis for my arguments either. It was a simple matter of being irritated that nobody saw my point of view - which again was me acting childish. I don't want to have the reputation of being a spoiled brat. I believe that I am an asset to this list, and I usually only post when I have something constructive to say (obviously, exceptions do occur). I understand that this little tantrum will take a while to overcome in people's minds, but I'd like to continue to be a strength to this list, not a liability.
I also want to let it be known that any personal confrontations have been resolved. It has been about 5 years since I took such a flaming, when Doc ripped me a new one for asking all of the FAQs, so I guess it was high time that I got this one. It'll keep me back on the path for a while.
Later, KAI
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:53:23 -0500 From: Matt Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3105 Message-ID: <34427C33.7B2B@disknet.com>
> There's been much discussion lately about comparing different passions, > with specific reference to DT's (and music's, on a broader scale) role > in each of our lives. Someone mentioned aviation in response, while > another mentioned animals, I believe. While those are legitimate > passions, of course, I wonder how closely they relate to music.
They don't relate to music at all. That's because those passions were in response to questions about jammers passions OTHER THAN DT and MUSIC. Just though I'd clear that up in case anyone was confused. Anyone ever notice that some of these threads develop into so many tangents that you don't even remember what the original thread was about. Maybe its just me.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:44:56 +0200 From: Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: SDV 3:30 Message-ID: <34426C28.2D09@Netvision.net.il>
ÞrØgßø¥ wrote: > > Um..is it when the "facing facts..facing reality..hes gonna have to > face it" sample starts? ...some kind of hiss or soemthing like that??? > > If its that ..well.. i hear it loud and clear > and it goes on a bit longer..i dont remember how long now..
Oh... That sound.... I have a story about that sound.....
My first copy of Awake was on a cassete. The recording was very lame and it had almost no treble.... and then when I got the disc I notice a very load hi-freq sound... obviously I went back to the store and demanded the replacement of my scratched CD...
By the way, the sound is only in the right channel, so Rogerio, maybe you wore the headphones inversed....
BTW: Whats a CD-RW?
-- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM
"I'm American, honey. Our names don't mean shit." - Bruce Willis on Pulp Fiction
"How can you keep your head and not go insane when the only light at the end of the tunnel is another train" - Mike Portnoy
Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:00:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Coop42@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: WDADU Message-ID: <971013145844_1892015509@emout02.mail.aol.com>
Hi!
Paul wrote: >What you said about hearing an album first and liking it the best. I have >to agree with you there. I don't know why that is... I don't know about >those that heard "When Dream & Day Unite" though. Maybe they do??
I don't. I bought WDADU (on vinyl) back in '89 because of all the great reviews it received in the German metal magazines and... I liked it. It would be pretty cool for me to say now that it blew me away on the first listen, but that just wouldn't be true. I just liked it. Luckily I liked it enough to buy I&W without having heard a single note of it, and the rest is history (almost everybody here seems to use that expression when they're talking about their encounter with I&W)... I enjoy WDADU now much more than I did back then when I bought it, but it's still my least favourite DT album.
Take Care, Andreas Berger
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:06:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.971013150520.4770F-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
nI must disagree with the disagreement. I think james does an admirable job on WDADU songs, at least the two I have heard. I like his renditions better than the originals. It is all a matter ofopinion, and I really need to hear Mike Bahr's wdatu to know for sure, but James really does a great job on these songs.
Reach Damon Fibraio at damon@shell.monmouth.com keyboardist, vocalist, radio personality Deviant of Reality All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars. Neil Peart of Rush
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:42:14 -0400 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The SDV TV-noise thread Message-ID: <199710131942.PAA29968@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
> Am I the only one, that thinks this noise sounds intentional? Theres a > big of white noise pop before the "TV whine" that we've been > discussing. > I had always interpreted it as them wanting us to hear that it's a TV > changing channels into the sound bite. Sort of a train of thought > moving from point to point represented by channels jumping in and out on > a TV. A man (maybe Kevin?) conteplating his ability to bury a lost love > while maybe staring blankly at these old movies.
I think you hit the nail on the head here, Jon. I pretty much believe that the Awake version is supposed to sound like someone just randomly flipping channels, and landing on all these shows about loss and confusion (Evan, the OJ chase, "Maybe not, I'm all mixed up," etc etc...). Also, as far as I can tell, the TV sounds on the MMTBH version of SDV is *exactly* that - flipping TV channels without rhyme or reason.
-d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:30:16 -0600 From: NightCast <NightCast@usa.net> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: DT in Denver? Message-ID: <01BCD7E0.C4691B40@tron>
Hey... I saw that DT is playing at the Ogden Theater on November 6.. can anyone tell me how much tickets are and who would be willing to buy me one? I live in Salt Lake, but am seriously considering visiting Denver around that time, and it would be the icing on the cake to see DT while I was there! Please respond to me privately if you know how much they are and would be willing to pick one up for me.. (I can mail you a check or money order beforehand so you know you'll get your money, even if I don't show up.)
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:14:30 -0500 (CDT) From: alex fraser <fraser@stolaf.edu> To: Ytsecadabra! <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: The SDV TV-noise thread Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971013151053.19548A-100000@lars.acc.stolaf.edu>
On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Christopher R. Merlo wrote: > > I had always interpreted it as them wanting us to hear that it's a TV > > changing channels into the sound bite. Sort of a train of thought > > moving from point to point represented by channels jumping in and out on > > a TV. A man (maybe Kevin?) conteplating his ability to bury a lost love > > while maybe staring blankly at these old movies. > I think you hit the nail on the head here, Jon. I pretty much believe that > the Awake version is supposed to sound like someone just randomly flipping > channels, and landing on all these shows about loss and confusion (Evan, the > OJ chase, "Maybe not, I'm all mixed up," etc etc...). Also, as far as I can > tell, the TV sounds on the MMTBH version of SDV is *exactly* that - flipping > TV channels without rhyme or reason.
from what i remember when MMTBH first appeared, the story that kev mo gave *was* exactly that... he was flipping channels one day and recording samples almost at random. and i think at least some of the samples on the Awake version were also obtained that way - for example that sample where everyone hears the hi-freq noise. i'd bet that noise is there because it was recorded at random from a live broadcast (the OJ car chase) and they just couldn't edit it all that well - or KM just left it in for effect. either way...
tiredly yours, id
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:28:20 -0500 (CDT) From: john jens <jjens@darkhorse.triad.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Some info on BIG WRECK n stuff Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971013152508.8157B-100000@darkhorse.triad.net>
On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Richard A. Rivera wrote:
| reviews in GUITAR WORLD. They also have a website that you can check out | at http://www.bigwreck.com. Definitely worth checking out.
anyone get these realaudio files to work? atlantic's site isnt lynx (the best webbrowser ever) friendly.
minidiscs: and where's Hairball when you need him?
anyone got any tour dates? >;)
j j e n s @ s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t
s h e l l . w e b z o n e . n e t / ~ j j e n s /
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:53:33 -0500 From: neurotics@juno.com (Cindy F Westfall) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: No more feedback Message-ID: <19971013.155334.9678.0.neurotics@juno.com>
Please cancel my subsciption to the jam. thanks,roger
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:09:03 -0400 From: Shamus Jary Mcconney <mcconney@ucet.ufl.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: cd-rw Message-ID: <199710132109.RAA54886@ucet.ufl.edu>
Yes the ideal of a cd-rw is really cool, but right now I'm getting normal cd-r's at sam's 5 for $10 compared for the ~$30 i've seen cd-rw for. There is also the fact that the varity of writting software is greater
Shamus McConney
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:25:31 -0400 From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: lossless/lossy Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971013172528.0068c124@mail.ici.net>
>First of all, what is lossy compresion? I thought people were just >misspelling "lousy" : )
There are two kinds of compression algorithms: lossless and lossy.
Lossless compression is what is used in data archiving (PKZip, Arc, LHZ, etc). Lossless means that when a file is compressed and then uncompressed, the file that comes out of the archive is axactly the same as the one that went in.
Losyy compression is what is used in (some) graphics/sound files (JPEG, MPEG, etc). Algorithms are used that can attain much higher compression ratios, but single-bit errors can creep into the files. In other words, if the file was compressed and then uncompressed, the resulting file would not neccessarily be the same as the original. These single-bit errors are usually not noticable when the files are viewed/listened to, and you can get 10x or better compression than with lossless methods.
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________ E-Mail: psull@ici.net WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html IRC: DDictator ICQ: 2049374 ______________________________________________________ There cannot be a crisis today; my schedule is already full.
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:18:48 -0400 From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com> To: The Spelling Bee <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: At a "lossy" for words Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971013211848.0069ec70@pop.pipeline.com>
Marcelo said: >>I heard that about lossy compression used on MiniDiscs, but that's not
Ptacek threw in: >>professionally with lossy compression and without lossy compression.
Doc added: >>lossy compression and non-lossy due to tinning in the hi frequencies.
Can not one of the three of you spell "lousy" ???? (Not lousily, thank God) I understand Marcelo is not a native English speaker, but the other two of you...I thought you all have invented something new!
Green Bay Packers - The Quest to Repeat - Detroit Red Wings 5-2 4-0-1 at New England at Toronto
Kevin
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:28:50 -0400 From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com> To: The Ytsational Spelling Bee <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Et Tu, Mike Bahr? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971013212850.006aec48@pop.pipeline.com>
>>The Minidisc compression _is_ lossy
Kevin, no .sig to save on wasted space!
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:38:23 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: At a "lossy" for words Message-ID: <199710132138.OAA14125@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Kevin Madden said: > > >Can not one of the three of you spell "lousy" ???? (Not lousily, thank God) >I understand Marcelo is not a native English speaker, but the other two >of you...I thought you all have invented something new!
Lousy compression is when you pipe your shitty $20 boombox through a Pringles can...
:)
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3106 **************************
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