YTSEJAM Digest 2953
Today's Topics:
1) Re: hmmm...
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
2) Michael Manring, FII sampler
by Paul Goracke <pgor@netcom.com>
3) First Impressions
by "Tom Baddley" <tbaddley@ontheair.com>
4) Savatage Release in Europe
by cmustard@netdot.com (Mark Lampert)
5) Der
by Nick Giannotti <N.Giannotti@COMEQUITY.COM>
6) SUBCONCIOUS: RICHARD WARREN
by "Pouet" <jean.j@videotron.ca>
7) with pen in hand
by "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu>
8) MARK METZGER contact me!
by Marcel Berkhout <berkhout@xs4all.nl>
9) Words that I don't understand yet want to...
by Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il>
10) King Crimson
by Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il>
11) Songs growing on you
by Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il>
12) Kevin Moore lyrics
by Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il>
13) Keyboards on Awake
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
14) Prog metal Webring anyone?
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:08:53 -0300 (EST)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: hmmm...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970909124643.5336A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Jason Nixon wrote:
> > I
> > don't like Awake because it's too heavy (Caught in a Web, for
> > instance).
>
> ummm, wait a second... YOU don't like Awake because it is too heavy, yet
> you absolutely love OPETH??? Huh?? Opeth is heavier than DT will ever be
> man, I don't get it...
Yes. And I'll explain why.
Well, the main reason is because when I try to listen to Awake, I
was expecting more soloes like those from Metropolis. You know, there you
can hear everyone playing: the distortion on the guitar doesn't blocks you
from hearing Kevin Moore's soloes, Mike drums and other things. The mix of
the instruments is perfect. Awake, on the other hand, seems to have only
guitar. The style of the keyboards has also changed brutally, drastically
(just compare the piano style of the Images and Words songs and the style
of keyboards on Awake and you'll also see I what I mean).
You can notice that as the time passed Dream Theater became more
and more guitar oriented (*maybe* with a "domination" -- I don't know if
this is the correct word here -- of John Petrucci over the band member).
Well, these are my thoughts and as I'm an open person and constantly
changing my mind, I'd like to see other people comments about this. As I
said earlier, since I don't understand music theory, I don't care if the
drum intro to 6:00 is amazing from the technical standpoint.
On the other hand, Opeth have blasts of heaviness with many, many
interludes to balance that. Overall, what you extract from the long songs
are the melodies (and they have some accoustic songs that are much slower,
softer than the majority of Dream Theater songs). I'm not claiming that
Opeth is better than Dream Theater (I don't even know how to qualify a
band as better than others -- which parameters could we objectively use?
None, I think.). I'm only claiming that I don't like Awake. Maybe because
I expected a more easily listenable album like I&W. And from what I hear
from "Burning My Soul", the are following the very same path they've done
for Awake. Ok, BMS has the interesting keyboards during the chorus, but
everything apart from that seems just "what a confusion, man!"
You know, I hear Dream Theater because I want to hear what each
member is contributing to the song. This *doesn't* mean that I like each
artist separately from the others, not as a band. This *does* mean that I
appreciate what each member contributes to the whole song and what the
song sounds like as a composition of many parts working together. After
all, it is much easier to work alone than to work with a group: you have
to know your partner's limitations, there are many problems on
communication (have you ever tried to transmit a new song you invented to
some friends of yours?) etc. I like to see that Dream Theater can supass
every single of these problems with class.
But I'd like to hear intelligent/constructive comments on my
comments.
> Jason (aka nixonburg)
Hope this clears the apparent confusion, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:30:42 -0700 From: Paul Goracke <pgor@netcom.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Michael Manring, FII sampler Message-ID: <l03110700b03b24f95ee5@[128.95.235.96]>
With comments by Rahul Ananda and Nick Giannotti about Michael Manring, just thought I'd point out that he is 1/3 of the present incarnation of Sadhappy, so their current lineup is a drummer and 2 bassists (previously drums, bass, and sax), all incredible musicians. The album is called "good day bad dream" and isn't as insanely agressive as their "Live: Before We Were Dead" album, but it has grown on me. "Musical styles on 'Good Day Bad Dream' range from ambient to funk to groove-driven experimental to balls-out punk to a groovin' cover of a Mingus standard. One song ('The Kitchen Sink') has 12 tracks of bass and 24 tracks of drums."
Manring site: <http://www.io.com/user/cei/Manring.dir> Sadhappy site: <http://members.aol.com/periscoper> (if/when you order the album, also order the "Live" album--I promise you won't regret it. :^)
Now, this may be old news (I was on vacation for a few weeks) but this past weekend I picked up a promo "Dream Theater Metal Sampler" which includes Burning My Soul, You Not Me, and Peruvian Skies. EastWest PRCD9899-2. So this was my first listen to any of the new songs--I'd been resisting netborne copies so I would only make a decision on final, official versions. Haven't formed a final verdict yet--it's still growing on me. First sweeping impressions (likely to change and refine): heavier, more straightforward, less of the complexity I like from DT. Price I paid: a whopping $1 (not sure if that's a good or bad sign for the band).
pg
--------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Goracke | "To do is to be" - Aristotle pgor@netcom.com | "To be is to do" - Plato | "Do be do be do" - Sinatra ---------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:31:12 -0600 From: "Tom Baddley" <tbaddley@ontheair.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: First Impressions Message-ID: <199709091632.QAA32770@out2.ibm.net>
I have to climb up out of my hole for a few minutes and make my presence known.
My first impressions of some of the new songs (and format I've listened to them in):
You Not Me - (.RAM on Hardradio) This one has been discussed to death, but I still have to say that it's my least favorite song that I've heard so far. Actually, the tune has real potential, but I can't get past the chorus. Not only is it very commercial, it's repeated about 1 time too many for my tastes. The rest of the song, in particular the chunky JP solo, is great. I also really like the pre-chorus (That's alright, I'm OK...).
Burning My Soul (Fix for 96, .RAM on Hardradio) Despite the fact that they took the instrumental part out to create Hell's Kitchen, this song is really good. I can see why this one was chosen for release as a single...it moves fast and furious throughout. Overall, I see little change in the studio version from their live performance. Once again, the chorus is a little cheesy for my tastes, but much less annoying than YNM. Wicked work by DS on the keys here!
Peruvian Skies (Fix for 96, .RAM on Hardradio) This one was immediately one of my favorites of the Fix shows. And although they have made changes in the final studio version, it's not hard for me to adapt and enjoy it just as much, if not more. I've sat down and directly compared the intro with Metallica's "Bleeding Me", and although it uses similar structure, the riffs are actually completely different. I absolutely love the Hendrix-type embellishments that JP added during the verses. DS once again proves to me that he is worthy to fill Kevin's shoes with great Pink Floyd-type atmospheric keys. JP's solo is moving. I also love the YYZ type rhythm towards the end of the song. Another cold stop ala PMU at the end. Great prog song! I Love it!
Take Away My Pain (Fix for 96, .RA on Scream.no) When I first heard this song on the Fix tape, I absolutely hated it! After hearing so much about the significance of the lyrics to JP, I was expecting something emotionally moving and sad, like "Eve" with lyrics (I know, Eve does have lyrics...but I haven't heard that version yet). What a pile of adult contemporary crap this was. Hated the chorus!!! (are you starting to see a trend here?!). However, with the studio version, they have changed my mind. The addition of what some of you have called latin percussion to the verses has transformed this into a listenable song. I don't think that it really sounds latin or calypso, but it does depart from what we would typically think of when we hear Portnoy rhythms. Great diversity! Now, the comparison that immediately comes to mind during the studio version is Mike and the Mechanics "Living Years". The combination of the new drum pattern, and JP's delayed guitar sounds really similar to this song. Now, the chorus still seems a little commercial, but it also managed to wedge itself into my head last night so well that it was still going when I was taking a shower this morning.
Just Let Me Breathe (Fix for 96) I can't wait to hear the final version of this song. I'm sure that my tape can't do it justice. This is one ass-kicking prog song. And now that I understand more about what the song is about, it makes me like it that much more. Give 'em hell, DT!!
Hell's Kitchen (Fix for 96, .RA on Scream.no) So, they stripped the keyboard intro from the live BMS, and took the instrumental section out of BMS, and created this song. As usual...when DT go instrumental...in my eyes, they can do no wrong!! Wicked playing all the way around! Who said that DT wasn't still prog?! I notice the hot ending, leading me to believe that it seques into the next song...I can't wait to feel the flow of the CD as a whole!
New Millenium (.RA on Scream.no) I've only listened to this song twice now, but I already can tell this will be one of my favorites. I still think that DT shows balls by having a long song as their first track off the CD. I notice the use of portions of CIA9ITG...cool. James has really done a good job of giving each song a little different character. I'll have to listen to this again about 20 times tonight to get my real thoughts on it.
Lines in the Sand (Fix for 96) I hope that this one isn't changed too much from the live gigs...this is another long song that is definitely prog, and I love it. Guess I have 2 weeks to find out how it sounds now.
Well, those are my first impressions of the new songs that I've heard. I'm really excited about the 23rd!!
So, what did y'all think about James' comment on trying to pick up the Rush and Pink Floyd fans? Interesting that he would make a statement so blunt. However, he's right...there are huge followings for both groups right now, and DT has music that fans of these groups would really dig if they were exposed to it. I love the Pink Floyd influence on FII...and I think that I can thank Derik for most of that. If DT can tap these two large markets, we can expect them to have a long and prosperous career. Then they can concentrate on playing music that they want to play, rather than being forced into semi-commercialism just to become known.
BTW...if there are any jammers in the Denver or Boulder, CO area who know of any live music in the vein of DT, please let me know. I've heard of Leviathan, and downloaded a sound clip from them the other day. Are they still together? (not Leviathon Italy)
Keep Ytsejamming!
Tom Baddley
"I have trouble with the persons with the signs. But I feel the need to make my own." ty tabor - king's x
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:18:57 -0500 From: cmustard@netdot.com (Mark Lampert) To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Savatage Release in Europe Message-ID: <19970909171437223.AAA219@cmustard.vonl.com>
Ahoy,
Legend has it (well, really the Savatage page) that The Wake of Magellan will be released in Europe on September 15th. Over here in the US, we won't see it until October/November. Whoever gets it first, post a review after a good listen - thanks! · • Colonel Mustard • ·
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:29:33 -0400 From: Nick Giannotti <N.Giannotti@COMEQUITY.COM> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Der Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Commonwealth_Equ%l=MAIL_SERVER-970909172933Z-15046@mail_server.comequity.com>
I just realized that the last post I made had the topic "Michael Manring/FII something or other", and I never included any FII stuff. My question was, Where are all you people getting these advanced copies, and why do I not have one? Am I not kissing ass to the right people or something? :)
-nicholas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:43:26 -0400 From: "Pouet" <jean.j@videotron.ca> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: SUBCONCIOUS: RICHARD WARREN Message-ID: <199709091843.OAA08839@bach.videotron.net>
Sorry to bother you all,
but I need RICHARD WARREN to send me an e-mail,
because I lost his e-mail adress!
Sorry...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:12:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: with pen in hand Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.970909145551.25394B-100000@moose>
> we haven't really been exposed to anything POST-Kevin. Kevin was an > integral part of Awake, lyrically. ACOS doesn't count, since it was > penned by Portnoy, and while Kevin was in the band. Unless you already > have the lyrics to FII, I don't see how you can make this statement
sat down last night, with pen and a notebook, and made an effort to actually get the lyrics to FII down.....
i did ok on about 6 songs, missing stray words here and there......another couple i missed entire phrases, when James went into his second-verse-of-pull-me-under mode (the my father's only son part, which i can still never figure out without lyric sheet in hand)
and then there were a new millenium and just let me breathe......maybe i shouldn't have been so hasty about labeling jlmb, turns out i can't understand what he's saying in there.... "spread with zen and hypersanity"?? what???
anyway, I don't know who wrote what song, lyric-wise, with the obvious exception of take away my pain.....but it just seems to me that on previos albums there were some turns of phrase that just grabbed me, and so far, except for lines in the sand and what i can make out from jlmb, there aren't any of those dramatic phrases.......TAMP is one hell of an emotional song, the line "what else can you do, babe, I guess I won't be coming home again" (JP's dad talking to his mom after learning that he will indeed die for sure) just may be my most favoritest DT line now......but that's for the way it's delivered, not for the content of the lyric.....
and then, there's the things that folks have been saying about repetitive choruses.....sure CIAW and PMU had defined choruses, but that's very evident in listening to this album.......i just think maybe that the lyrics were a little bit cooler when Kevin Moore was around.....
Of course, maybe I'm not the best guy to judge lyrical quality.....I'm that guy who listens to the instruments first, then the vocalists voice as it relates to the music, and then the production and finally maybe I'll spare a thought about what the lyrics are actually saying (after all, it's nearing three weeks since i've had this tape, and yesterday was the first time I've tried distinctly to figure out the lyrics to FII......)
saying that, I totally have to applaud Ernie for what he said about separating lyrics and sounds when listening to music.....it's something which I do automatically, but i've never quie consciously realized that, so thanks, ernie, for stretching my ears a bit.......
and with that, i remain Partha Mukhopadhyay
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Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:04:40 +0200 From: Marcel Berkhout <berkhout@xs4all.nl> To: Ytsejam Mailinglist <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: MARK METZGER contact me! Message-ID: <34159DC8.316A332E@xs4all.nl>
sorry to take up Ytsejam bandwith for this message!
Hey Mark,
My harddrive crashed, so I lost your email address. That's why I have to cantact you thru the 'Jam.
BUT.....I got your letter today! thanks! You won't believe what happened with it. It went from the US, to BANKOK!!!!!, and back to me.
I guess it's because the street where I live is called the Thailandsingel.......strange.
Marcel berkhout@xs4all.nl
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:02:05 +0200 From: Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Words that I don't understand yet want to... Message-ID: <34159D2D.5A3D@Netvision.net.il>
Hi there all!
Well, English ain't my first language, so I don't know the meaning of words like: IMO, IMHO and stuff. In fact I don't think that these are in "formal" English. I think it would be a good idea to make a YTSE-Dictionary for all of the new guys here (2 month on the jam is new, ain't it?). Or maybe there is one already. In that case, can someone give me a link? if not, please tell me what do they mean.
Just came up with an idea: Maybe the guy who edits the YTSEFAQ will put a YTSE-Dict on the FAQ.... think about it....
-- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM
"mmmbop, da da doobop yeaaaaah..." - Hanson
"It's log, it's log, it's better than bad - it's good!" - The Ren & Stimpy show
Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247
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Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:26:37 +0200 From: Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: King Crimson Message-ID: <3415A2ED.701A@Netvision.net.il>
Hi again!
Well, it seems my mom was a rock fan when she was young. I found some Deep Purple records (Vinils!) and even one King Crimson. That would be "At the court of the crimson king". I gave it a few listens and I just didn't get it. so:
1) Is their stuff like, say, Fatez, that takes time to get used to? 2) Are all of their stuff like that?
-- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM
"mmmbop, da da doobop yeaaaaah..." - Hanson
"It's log, it's log, it's better than bad - it's good!" - The Ren & Stimpy show
Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 22:07:01 +0200 From: Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Songs growing on you Message-ID: <3415AC65.46CD@Netvision.net.il>
Hehe... Yet another post by me.... I might end up being in the most frequent posters list... NOT... anyhow:
I don't think you can say that you love/hate a DT cd after one listen. Hell it took me a YEAR to fully understand Awake.
On the same subject: I have this thing - I listen to CDs in periods. I mean, when I first got Awake, I used to put it on repeat and listen to it all day long. (Awake was the first CD i ever bought along with Ozzy's No More Tears). Then I got Images (He's a sinner!!! He got Awake before Images!! let's burn him to death!!!). This album changed me forever. This was the Images period. It lasted almust a year. I also bought some Rush and other Ozzy stuff then. And then, 3 months ago, I lloked at my CD collection and noticed that Awake was full of dust.... I immediatly put it in the CD player.... Since then i'm inlove with Awake.... BTW I think Awake has a much more live sound than Images. (Not like live in a show, like live in not mechanic). And if the new CD will be even more live, than they have a good changce of getting Floyd fans to listen to them.
This is it. No more posts for today. /me has to sleep. /me has school tommorw. /me says bye
-- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM
"mmmbop, da da doobop yeaaaaah..." - Hanson
"It's log, it's log, it's better than bad - it's good!" - The Ren & Stimpy show
Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:53:51 +0200 From: Shai Yallin <Yallin@Netvision.net.il> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Kevin Moore lyrics Message-ID: <3415A94F.72B2@Netvision.net.il>
It's me again.....
Well, I think Kev was the best lyricist on the band. (BTW Another Day was written by JP). The words to his demos aren't as poetic as his I&W and WDADU words. They are similiar to the Awake style of writing. It's only my opinion, and I didn't actually listen to the demos, (but i've read the words), but I think his mind fucked up a bit after the 92'-93' tour. Then again, I can be proven wrong.... I also think that leaving the band was a big mistake...
-- Shai Yallin - Kurush on #YTSEJAM
"mmmbop, da da doobop yeaaaaah..." - Hanson
"It's log, it's log, it's better than bad - it's good!" - The Ren & Stimpy show
Visit my home page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/3247
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:30:40 -0400 (EDT) From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu> To: YTSEJAM@ax.com Subject: Keyboards on Awake Message-ID: <01INFZ0MGIC29OCXNU@alma.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, the main reason is because when I try to listen to Awake, I was expecting more soloes l ou know, there you can hear everyone playing: the distortion on the guitar doesn't blocks you from hearing Kevin Moore's soloes, Mike d ix of the instruments is perfect. Awake, on the other hand, seems to have only guitar. The styl e keyboards has also changed brutally, drastically (just compare the piano style of the Images and Words songs and the style of keyboards on Awake and you'll also see I wha ). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. You know, I hear Dream Theater because I want to hear what each member is contributing to the s t I like each artist separately from the others, not as a band. This *does* mea h member contributes to the whole song and what the song sounds like as a composition of many parts working together >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, my terminal butchered these quotes, but you get the idea. I agree.I love both Awake and IaW, but IaW is far and away my favorite, primarily because I feel that they went from being an ensemble to being a guitar band where the keyboards play more of a backup role. Sure, you can hear the keys and the synth on Awake, but it rarely is the featured instrument in any part of any of the songs. I'm not just talking about solos either. For example, the clean piano part in TTT, or the intro to surrounded, or any of the numerous prominent keyboard parts in LTL. Where did this aspect of the band go during Awake? I would like to think that this was just the result of Kevin's waning interest in the band, but sometimes I fear that this is confusing cause and effect. Clearly, his precence diminished with each of the three albums (Okay, it's debatable from WDADU to IaW, but it is my opinion that this was the case.).He wanted to pursue other musical interests, but his involvement with FW's last project doesn't support this. I'm not crying conspiracy or anything, I just sometimes wonder if the band has made an intentional move in the direction of "guitar band", and this was part of Kevin's decision. But I'm not claiming to know. At any rate, I agree with Rogerio on this one. -Clark
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Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:34:09 -0400 (EDT) From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Prog metal Webring anyone? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970909162947.28485D-100000@infinite.wezl.org>
I've been way interested in getting a progressive metal webring going so that way we can have instant links to ALL the cool bands that are discussed her, but I'm WAY too busy to design all the graphics and update a page...blah blah blah. So here's what I'll do. If someone wants to take over the job and design a page and all that (this will be YOUR page and I will have virtually nothing to do with it) I'll set up the webring and manage it along with whoever does the page until they get the hang of it and wanna take it over (or not). So if you're interested please send me E-mail and let's get it going! For those who still have no clue what LSOAR is check it out at http://www.wezl.org/lift and this will give you an example of what the progressive webring might be like. Later kiddies!
_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* ^ According to the circle of fifths, and the order of sharps and flats: ^ ^ If the alphabet continued as notes progressed (Using Major Key Sigs) ^ ^ (i.e. A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, etc.) eventually the key of Z Major ^ ^ would have 4 sharps. ^ ^ ^ ^ "Just Lighten up and listen to the Music" -Kevin Moore (inside joke) ^ ^ ^ ^ Eric Moegling: Manager for "Lifting Shadows Off A Ring" ^ ^ The Dream Theater Web-Ring ^ ^ emoeglin@wezl.org ^ ^ ^ ^ HOMEPAGE - http://www.wezl.org/NuGgeTMaN or http://opeckie.base.org ^ ^_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_^
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2953 **************************
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