YTSEJAM Digest 3024
Today's Topics:
1) Re: FII... Grundge is dead...AMEN!
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
2) Re: kevin moore, glambitch
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
3)
by jemmons@neo.lrun.com
4) .002
by "Bernd Basmer" <Bernd.Basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de>
5) FII (duh)
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
6) Seven Wonders; cool beginnings
by "David Whitaker" <David-Whitaker@worldnet.att.net>
7) You go boy!
by DaveH <buster@ee.net>
8) FII
by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
9) Winter Rose
by "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com>
10) -No Subject-
by Hein Vandenabeele
11) cryptic lyrics and bonus tracks (Jap rel.)
by JB <beamup@vt.edu>
12) Round hairy objects
by "Neil Gallop" <nga@software-ag.de>
13) A quick thought or 2
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
14) How About that SNARE?!
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
15) Re: Re: The worst DT album yet???
by Marton Magocsi <magaca@gedeon.akg.hu>
16) -No Subject-
by Hein Vandenabeele
17) Hollow Years
by LoneWolf <e8825527@student.tuwien.ac.at>
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:03:33 -0600
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: FII... Grundge is dead...AMEN!
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970925224238.00847be0@postoffice.syspac.com>
At 02:29 PM 9/24/97 -0700, Someone wrote:
>
> I think Pantera put it best when they put out THE GREAT SOUTHERN
>TRENDKILL with a line in the song saying, "The Trend is DEAD" Grundge is
>dead. Even if you watch MTV you can actually see that, amongst the jam
<<SNIP>>
>I have noticed (and I like it) that rock is going back
>to the talented players. The hottest bands that are mainstream and popular
>are:
>Korn: Very talented, we'll see them stick around.
I dug what you said until you came to this line. Maybe you've heard a
different Korn.
Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince
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| http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 |
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:03:38 -0600
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: kevin moore, glambitch
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970925225118.00810ad0@postoffice.syspac.com>
At 07:06 AM 9/25/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>...........after reading that post (was that you, vinny?), i said to
>myself.......
>
>whatever. sheesh.
Not so much his songwriting. It was a joke statement between myself and a
few other ytsejammers. Something about how when Kevin left, so did the
small amount of glam they had left in them. Don't take it personally
ya'll! Kev kicks ass :) I do like Derek's more hard-edged approach,
though. Fits nicely.
Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:24:07 -0400
From: jemmons@neo.lrun.com
Message-ID: <199709260625.XAA22985@odin.ax.com>
X-Apparently To: ytsejam@ax.com
X-Sender: jemmons@mail-hub
Message-Id: <v01540b07b050bd5f0172@[204.210.205.63]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:31:23 +0100
To: ytsejam@ax.com
]From: jemmons@neo.lrun.com (John Emmons)
Subject: FII!
hey Ytsejammers!
Well, what can I say! I love the album! There is such a wide
variety on this album it is absolutely fabulous! I was so surprised when I
got to Anna Lee, because although the lyrics aren't too "in depth" (nothing
wrong with that, mind you!) it was a very "new" style to Dream Theater..a
really soft ballad done almost on piano and not a synth ( I could be
wrong!). I think even Kevin's slow songs are pretty fast (but then again I
can't play piano all that fast, so maybe Wait for sleep is slow to him!) It
does have the "Elton John" piano ballad written all over it..Perhaps all
the heavy bands are trying to move a little to the softer side.
Queensryche's Stay with me (the one with Chris's vocals on it) is pretty
"out of the norm" for the band, and the album somewhat as well. I also
thought that New Millenium with its into and vocal reminded me alot of the
new Fates Warning album's opening track (#2) where the vocals are pretty
distorted as well...[hey, by the way, are the rumors of them touring
together really authenic? How about chances they'll hook up here in Ohio?
Which reminds me, any idea when th tour dates will come out? any idea when
they'll be in the USA? Probably not, but I had to ask I am so excited about
it! It'll be so great to see them again] One of my favorite intros is Lines
in the sand...there is something pretty mystic about it...definitly a new
direction for the band, but I liked it immediately, so that's always a good
thing!
Well, as a loyal Dream Theater fan, I of course am out there
recruiting new fans by playing some of the new music on my college radio. I
think 'You not me' is a pretty good cut as a single, I am not sure if
everyone could appreaciate the longer songs, but I am going to work on it!
Though I must be making leanway, because I think I have finally convinced
my friend ( long time "classic rock" fan ) on the benefits of Dream
Theater...I think he may even actually pay to see them live!
well, enough of me rambling about how great the album is, I think everyone
already knows that fact!
Thanks for 'taking the time'
Maria
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 08:24:15 +0000
From: "Bernd Basmer" <Bernd.Basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: .002
Message-ID: <9709260622.AA09825@krzsun.med-rz.uni-sb.de>
Hi.
I don't want to make a lot of words about it. My only comment
to FII is that I think that this album is the best music that came
out for years. It's got it all. Groove, vibes, emotion, kick, all
that one can want.
All IMHO... as always. :)
Bye
Bernd *still cannot believe it*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| | Bernd Basmer |
| _I_ | Guitar - Superior |
| <*,*> | |
| [( )] | For Info about Superior have a look at: |
| -"-"- | http://gaia.owl.de/~fine/superior.html |
| Punk Owl | |
| | http://www.hlti.fi/~opk/bernd/ |
| | Email: basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 23:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: FII (duh)
Message-ID: <199709260637.AA01681@crl5.crl.com>
First post in a while; I've been skimming Jams when possible. HI
THERE to the usual crowd of troublemakers from IRC and the Jammers I
know from various Ytsecons, etc. :)
I went into FII having carefully avoided every online file, etc. I'd
heard some material from Birch Hell but that's it.
This is an excellent album. Three hours ago I was referring to it as
"very, very good." We Detect A Trend. :)
Initial favorites include HY, H'sK->LitS->TAMP, JLMB.
Right now I'd rate it slightly behind I&W (which, production aside, is
a true landmark and will be known as such in 50 years) and dead even
with Awake in my own personal Dream Theater pantheon.
As Paul Harvey would say, "shop talk:" I'm being furloughed
tomorrow, which is bad in some ways but good in others -- I can travel
around for shows now. And, money willing, travel I will. :)
NP: FII, alternating with "Dream" by Forest For the Trees
-- Paul W. Cashman | Listening to the city Whispering its violence vanyel@crl.com | I set out watching from above Dream Theater -----> The 90s bring new questions New solutions to be found "Learning To Live" | I fell in love to be let down------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:48:08 -0500 From: "David Whitaker" <David-Whitaker@worldnet.att.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Seven Wonders; cool beginnings Message-ID: <19970926064953.AAA2448@hombre>
By the way, _Seven Wonders_, the 8-DT-bootlegs-on-one-CD bootleg, is still open for orders. Send in a reservation now, and you might get glorious disc #100 (98 orders reserved so far in just over 3 weeks). =) Go here for information on the disc: http://www.geocities.com/soho/2236
'Burning My Soul' and 'Just Let Me Breathe' have the coolest, groovingest beginnings of any songs I've ever heard. I just about piss in my headphones they're so great. LaBrie, you LaRock.
D. Ryan Whitaker David-Whitaker@worldnet.att.net
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:56:36 -0400 From: DaveH <buster@ee.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: ernie@pananet.com, qryche@one.net Subject: You go boy! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970926025636.0068f9d4@ee.net>
Ernesto wrote: >On FII on the other hand, the guys are much older and more experienced. >Most of them have families now. They've tasted some success, but then >experienced the hard reality of the music industry itself. They've also >gone through personal tragedies (JP losing his Dad). And once again this >shows through the music. I think one of the best aspects of DT's music is >that their way of looking at like comes through the music, and their way of >looking at life has changed (like everybody else's usually does) > >Ernesto
You've hit the nail on the head Ernesto!! The same thing happened when Queensryche had that big 4 year break between Empire and Promised Land. The band had time to reflect on their careers, their music, their lives, what it all meant to them, and the music took a different direction/feel. Many people said "this aint Queensryche anymore" but they couldn't have been farther from the truth.
An artists life is their environment to draw influence from (the canvas on which they paint so to speak), and the end result in this case is their music, which in itself is a piece of artwork representing the mixed feelings and experiences of each member.
Along the same lines of what you've said Ernesto, this is the beauty of our current CD in question. The band has taken me (us) to yet another place in their minds, lives, and music. If people would Take The Time to look/listen beneath the surface, they might realize that maybe it was not the bands intention to rocket listeners out of their seats with this recording, but rather to use their music as a way to let The Voice Inside speak out.
If I sat down and wrote a song today, then I wrote a song 3 years from now, and they both had the same feel and style, I would say it's time to lay the guitar down. I wouldn't be writing music from my soul at that point in life, I would be writing music just for the sake of playing another song. I think bands like Dream Theater go a bit deeper than that. Thank God.
buster http://users1.ee.net/buster - Dream Theater http://www.dhpc.com/ryche/ - Queensryche
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:06:51 -0600 From: "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: FII Message-ID: <199709260657.BAA04549@btiserv.btigate.com>
I have noticed several people saying that they don'rt care for a lot of FII, but I must say my piece.
I love it, personally, I like it even better thn Awake, witht he exception of Space-Dyed Vest, I LOVE that song. So it may not sound like Awake or CoS for that matter. Dream Theater is edxpanding. Also remember that Kevin Moore wrote a lot of stuff. He's gone now so his style goes with him. Therefore Dream Theater must change. For the better, IMHO.
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:06:51 -0600 From: "Andrew Fors" <afors@btigate.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Winter Rose Message-ID: <199709260657.BAA04567@btiserv.btigate.com>
Is there any place to get WInter Rose albums? I know it's glam, but I am open to it, and am curious to see what Labrie sounded like back then.
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Date: 26 Sep 97 9:04:41 EDT From: Hein Vandenabeele To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: -No Subject- Message-ID: <9709261005.AA7156@NYC-NTGW-N02.ny.jpmorgan.com>
<1) I think everybody that says the production on FII sucks should get a time <machine and get back to the 80s. The production on this CD is great and it <serves what it was meant to sound like. All the sounds are warm and nice and <clear. Every song has different sounds from all the instruments. It sounds <great. I take it personally when people bash the production on this CD. A <big Fuck You to all of you.<<
<2) I think the songs are great. Everybody that wants Images and Words again <should get a time machine and get back in time a few years, to be able to <re-live the release of I&W. But don't clutter the jam with stupid comments <like "it's not prog enough" (have you heard the CD?), "it's grungy" (HAVE <YOU HEARD THE CD?????), etc. <I think this is DT's finest effort ever.
Sooooooooo narrow minded .... Go Screw Yourself...
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:31:32 -0400 From: JB <beamup@vt.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: cryptic lyrics and bonus tracks (Jap rel.) Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970926033132.007d49d0@192.168.255.1>
It seems to me that DT is getting more cryptic... their lyrics have just as much meaning, but it's more sheltered. At first glance, some may say, These lyrics suck... but with more observation/study, the same amount of meaning can be derived from many of these songs. (of course there are the straightforward ones, that seems more for the public who has no idea what lyrics are if a parental advisory sticker isn't on the cover). Keeping with this, the suttleties tie over from the lyrics to the cover... our beloved logo is more cryptic/hidden, the amazing solos/technical playing is still there, but a little harder to hear at first glance.... All in all, I love it... it gives the public a dose of good music (and if they can't distinguish all the technical wizardry of these instrumentalists, then they'll probably like it all the better), while giving DT fans what they've come to love and expect from the band.
>If you'd like to know what songs on the bonus single CD with Japanese >FII CD, visit my www site and download the jpg of the disc. Location is;
for crying out loud... stop trying to get "hits" to your web counter, and just post the fricking information!!! It's only posting 2 songs... it doesn't take that much time to do, plus it saves all of us people who can't read a lick of Japanese quite a bit of time.
After some searching and after getting out my magnifying glass, the extras are "Take away my pain" (some other version, too small on the picture to see), and "Speak to Me".
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jason Brindel Computer Engineering '97 Virginia Tech beamup@vt.edu http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/beamup (540)961-7262 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:30:43 +0200 From: "Neil Gallop" <nga@software-ag.de> To: "The Ytsejam Crowd" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Round hairy objects Message-ID: <9709260835.AA07754@server3.software-ag.de>
Hi all
quite a few people talking about Kevin Moore's balls lately. I thought he had them chopped off when they went cancerous...
stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de) Currently playing: Bob Marley and the Wailers - Exodus
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 01:37:39 -0700 (MST) From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A quick thought or 2 Message-ID: <199709260837.BAA10698@goodnet.com>
"Concise" is the argument about FII, and whether it's right to be concise if it's classic literature or film. The answer generally, is Yes. In fact most literature and film has had considerable fat trimmed. Hell, the Bible itself has apocrypha, books that those compiling the Bible felt were not integral to the message and structure, and thus discarded. The movie Dune had over 20 hours of footage filmed for it, cutting out outtakes and errors it clocked in at 9 hours. But even the 3.5-hour TV version is a chore to watch, even if you're a Dune fan, and the 2.5-hour theatrical cut is slightly lengthy but "just about right", because the story may wander a bit less, but the scope is implied just the same. Songwriters that can take a 20 minute song and express the same thing in 5 minutes are getting a lot more out of every note, a lot more out of every word, basically it makes the music itself qualitatively better. So yes, it's fair to say that, for example, Take Away My Pain, is a better written song than, for example, Light Fuse and Get Away. Both are complex, both are lyrically noteworthy, but LFAGA has an extra minute and still doesn't manage to cover even half the musical ground that TAMP does. TAMP expresses more, does more, emotes more, implies more, defines more, and basically IS more, as a song, and yet it's the shorter tune, and we've already established that neither tune is a stinker. So where does that leave us? Apparently between 1987 and 1996, DT learned a little bit about how to be concise without "lossy compression". :)
Anyway all your commentary on FII, copious though it is, has been actually fairly pleasant to wade through compared to the fecal landslide that erupted when Awake came out. As different as you may feel that FII is to the DT catalog, consider that IAW was most peoples' first DT album, WDADU was often thought of as subsidiary because KJ LaBrie wasn't on it, and when Awake came out, our entire concept of DT that pigeonholed them as the Images And Words Band was shattered. Even those who dislike FII aren't giving it nearly the amount of shit that Awake received here and elsewhere when it was released. And now look back... most DT fans consider Awake to be nearly the equal of IAW, and consider it as canon as any DT has been. I have a feeling when DT's next album, "Crystal Illusion", is released in the year 2000, that the arguments will crop up all over again. ;)
Southwestern Arizona got slammed pretty hard by Hurricane Nora today. In the metro Phoenix area, we got off light, with rain by the bucketload but no mass destruction. I'd have stopped CD production and shut down the system to avoid lightning damage, but a) there was little lightning, and b) I ran out of CDRs 2 hours after I woke up. :) Not to worry folks, I'll just buy more tomorrow as usual. It was kinda cool to actually see clouds in the furnace we call "Sky".
If any of you are desperate to unload old Nintendo Virtual Boy, Sega CD, and Sega 32X games, let me know. I can't say as how I'll give you much for them, given that the games for all 3 systems are on clearance everywhere for between 50 cents and 3 bucks, but it beats having a garage sale. :) I could also use a Sega CD II unit itself, the one with the flip top and not the CD drawer. Mine is really buggy and worn out (got it for $15 off the open box table at Best Buy). Also, I can't afford another Playstation (sold mine to Chung Ng some months back) but I want one anyway, and if anyone's itching for some CDs, we can work a trade. Deficit spending; it's the American way. :) It doesn't matter how new or old the PSX is because I can modify it regardless.
More DT content: T-Shirts for sale!! All in excellent condition (worn 2-3 times or less) unless noted, and washed clean. All are size Large, not Extra Large, and dammit those don't fit me because I'm a really fat guy. :) Otherwise I'd be wearing them.
DT A Change of Seasons -Japan 95 version- longsleeve white w/cover - $40 DT A Change of Seasons -Japan 95 ver- shtsleeve black w/band photo - $35 Rush Counterparts Tour - Black, gold nutnbolt b/w triangle w/dates - $20 The low price is because my little sister wore it a couple times AC/DC - 1995 tour - Forest green w/white print - NEVER worn. - $20 Pink Floyd - Bell tour "Animals" theme shirt - black w/embroidery - $25 Magic The Gathering Mana Symbols (Pro Tour Qualifier prize '96) - $25 The above shirt looks REALLY fuckin' cool. Trust me on that. I am half tempted to rip the sleeves and collar out and keep it, as a "around the house" shirt, cuz then it would sorta fit.
I nope nobody was offended by that content, since I think it's relevant. Take care everyone.
-Mike Bahr-durnik@_goodnet.com-http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 02:17:12 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: How About that SNARE?! Message-ID: <199709260917.CAA23322@gms.gmsnet.com>
Is Portnoy playing one of those Pringles tubes again?
I thought it was a Tama snare... ? I could be wrong... :)
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:58:39 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marton Magocsi <magaca@gedeon.akg.hu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Re: The worst DT album yet??? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.93.970926123211.10925B-100000@gedeon.akg.hu>
Eckie and Dan Temmesfeld, thanks for your thoughts. I _was_ a bit too drastic. First of all, I should have used the title "The DT album I like least" instead of "The worst DT album yet???". That's because I just don't like this album as much as I like previous DT albums. It's all right for me to do that, isn't it? Secondly, I shouldn't have tried to support my feelings with all those reasons, because it got me into talking about stuff I don't know that much about. [design, music producing and writing, etc.] However, I do not think I'm close minded, or lack the _brain power_. I grew to like Dream Theater because of the impressions their music made in me, and the depth of the lyrics and music that made making impressions possible. I don't care if the musicians are lousy as long as the music touches me, and makes me think, etc. Somehow, lyrics matter more than the music to me. Maybe that's one of the reasons (there I go again) I do not like this album as much as the previous albums. I meant the post to be about my personal impressions, not the (non existent) REALITY.
I guess I wasn't too successful, sorry I'm alive: Marton Magocsi magaca@gedon.akg.hu
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Date: 26 Sep 97 13:04:08 EDT From: Hein Vandenabeele To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: -No Subject- Message-ID: <9709261407.AA2828@NYC-NTGW-N02.ny.jpmorgan.com>
< No. This is why I don't like the production. Others may have other <reasons. < To me, the most basic definition of what constitutes good production is <this: A full, big sound that surrounds you, but, most importantly, one in which <you can clearly distinguish every part and hear everything that every <instrument plays. Obviously, there are other factors, but if a producer doesn't <at least get this right, then it makes the music very difficult for me to listento. Awake had excellent production for this reason. <And although some would <disagree, I love the sound on I&W as well, for the same reason. On FII, the <guitar and keys are often really indistinguishable from one another. It's not <that they're mixed too low, there's just too much noise. A lot of it has to do <with the guitar tones used. Who's responsible for this decision, I have no <idea. <>Or maybe it's because this isn't I&W, or Awake, or ACoS, and you're all <>bent out of shape because you were expecting one of those. I'm sorry, < < God damn it I'm sick of this shit. Am I the only person on this list <who thinks that this is the most idiotic argument they've ever heard? What the <fuck is wrong with liking I&W, which I do, and being dissapointed that the <band has gone in a completely different direction? It's not like people are
Totally agreed... I definitely do NOT have the same overwhelming feeling as I had with IaW. Period.
However I respect that this is somebody elses opinion.
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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 14:38:19 +0000 From: LoneWolf <e8825527@student.tuwien.ac.at> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Hollow Years Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970926143819.0068c660@stud1.tuwien.ac.at>
One of the most beautiful songs ever, but ... OUCH :"(
_ / \ _-' _/| \-''- _ / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ __-' { | \ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ / \ . ,. , ,. . ,_ / "o. |o } | ,-. ,-. ,-. `| /| / ,-. | |_ | \ ; | | | | | |-' | / | / | | | | ', `--' `-' ' ' `-' `' `' `-' `' | \_ __\ LoneWolf@dreamt.org ''-_ \.// Enter my spaceship at / '-____' http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e8825527/ / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _' ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _-'
" Some people been holdin' back their love so long I think they're 'bout to burst " - Spock's Beard
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3024 **************************
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