YTSEJAM Digest 3022
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Quit Your Bitching
by Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com>
2)
by Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com>
3) UNCLASSIFIED:-Shirtlifter
by Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
4) Anna Lee.....
by JE78674@ltu.edu
5) Radio Hits <> bad
by dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
6) for a moment in time
by "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu>
7) Re: Wankiness, odd time sigs, technicality, etc....
by "Michael G. Jones" <mgjones@Mcs.Net>
8) jesus fucking christ
by Thrak75@aol.com
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3020
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
10) break like the wind
by "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu>
11) FII
by DrummerEsh@aol.com
12) RE: The blind guys speaks about FII
by "James Bennett" <rycher@thegrid.net>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3017
by BillB67@ix.netcom.com
14) Regarding Bonus tracks of Japanese edition FII CD
by s963713@ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp (SUZUKI Jun'ya)
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3017
by "ÞrØgßø¥" <calfaro@caribe.net>
16) New CD's (NOFIIC)
by Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
17) Re: Regarding Bonus tracks of Japanese edition FII CD
by "ÞrØgßø¥" <calfaro@caribe.net>
18) I made you out of clay!
by Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:32:34 -0700
From: Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Quit Your Bitching
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970925183234.007d3d30@mail1.amaonline.com>
Someone wrote:
> Nice job guys, I like it.
>To everyone else who is bitching so much:
>Find another band that doesn't make you think.
Fuck off, nazi pig. Why don't you find another
mailing list whose members aren't open to criticism.
Some of us fans are still under the impression
that bands like Dream Theater care what their
supporters think.
Jeremy Ulrey
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 18:40:36 -0700
From: Jeremy Ulrey <bangyrheadmf@geocities.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: My.mistake@ax.com (Fans' reactions)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970925184036.007e0490@mail1.amaonline.com>
I just have to say that in my previous post I seem to have misjudged some of the fans on this list. I'm surprised how many subscribers to this list have posted honest criticism, although there are still those who like the album simply because it's Dream Theater and they're supposed to. I've been listening to the details of what people like about the album, but I'm afraid I haven't heard much that I can agree with. The merits mentioned in these posts seem to me an exageration of just how good each song is, like it's being compared to no other reference point other than itself. I don't know, music operates in cycles, ranging from years when there's shitloads of good material coming out of the woodworks, to years when everything coming out of the woodworks is a Load of shit. Guess which way we're headed now...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:00:49 +1000
From: Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: UNCLASSIFIED:-Shirtlifter
Message-ID: <4A25651D.008366F0.00@nschq-e-navy.navy.gov.au>
For all you people out their who don't what a 'shirtlifter' is :
It refers to ones (male) sexual preference for other males, in other words
you were being called a poofter/faggot/gay or whatever you yankees call it
these days.
BTW, please all you ppl using the 'ANM' acronym, check the CD, it's 'New
Mellinnium' there is no 'A' in the song title !
gRaham_
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:16:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: JE78674@ltu.edu
To: YTSEJAM@ax.com
Subject: Anna Lee.....
Message-ID: <01IO2M2SCIVM8ZFFNO@LTU.EDU>
Someone on here said it was a Elton John song EXTREME....I think
it's more like a REO SPEEDWAGON track ;)
Later,
Jeff E.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:19:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: dantemm@erinet.com (Dan Temmesfeld)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Radio Hits <> bad
Message-ID: <v01520d01b0507718195c@[207.90.116.67]>
just to rebuke those who think that having and/or writing a "radio
hit" is necessarily bad.
sure, it could be bad, if that's all you do and write only to the
crowd. but DT is still remaining within their musical integrity.
they need to keep making records, and (to the company) like it or
not, they have to get *some* form of radio airplay to continue on
at international distribution levels like they are now.
and having a radio hit doesn't make for sucky or non-prog bands...
look at extreme, kansas, yes, queensryche, rush, king's x, and
even fates warning... all had some (or a lot for rush & QR) airplay
to keep them going. there's always the 8-10 songs still left on
the album for them to jam out to and be themselves.
also, just because a song is on the radio, that doesn't equate DT
as "not being themselves" or even "selling out." maybe they just
happened to write a kick-ass song...Pull Me Under comes to mind.
that got some radio play and it made their record company take
notice. it also brought tons of new fans into DT's awesome other
(non-radio hit) music. how many out there might have never gotten
into DT and other prog without hearing it on radio (like with PMU)?
sometimes radio messes up and actually plays good stuff... ;)
that is all...
Dan
---+ +---
Dan Temmesfeld - dantemm (at) erinet (dot) com
Galactic Cowboys on the Web...muh!?
http://www.cedarville.edu/student/s1133627/gcowboys.htm
---+ +---
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:33:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: for a moment in time
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.970925202908.19936C-100000@moose>
omigodtheworldiscomingtoanend
there was an apology on the jam......holeee shiite, it's a miracle
that was cool
and then it went back to the regular stuff
transcendence buried under a pile of icky noise
(that could well be a reference to the band crimson glory, the way
streange and beautiful turned out)
but, you know, i'm sort of enjoying it.......in a strange masochistic
self-flagellating way.......no this post has no point.....that's reserved
for my next one.......
partha
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:24:56 -0500
From: "Michael G. Jones" <mgjones@Mcs.Net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Wankiness, odd time sigs, technicality, etc....
Message-ID: <19970925192456.33170@Mars.mcs.net>
Some people have already replied to this, so I will only comment on a
few points.
On Thu, Sep 25, 1997 at 09:12:45AM -0700, CLARK ABEL wrote:
> >Or maybe it's because this isn't I&W, or Awake, or ACoS, and you're all
> >bent out of shape because you were expecting one of those. I'm sorry,
>
> God damn it I'm sick of this shit. Am I the only person on this list
> who thinks that this is the most idiotic argument they've ever heard? What the
> fuck is wrong with liking I&W, which I do, and being dissapointed that the
> band has gone in a completely different direction? It's not like people are
> saying that the band can't do that if they want to. But if I like one album,
> and the next one is totally different, why the fuck should I pretend to
> like it?
I think the biggest complaint about the "FII sucks" messages are that some
of them, I believe, are based on the mere fact that FII is not I&W or
Awake, and NOT based on the merit of FII by itself. In otherwords, people
who wanted I&W 2 heard FII and decided it sucked because it was
"different". Just because someone doesn't like something, doesn't mean it
sucks.
I'm not saying everyone's doing this, just some.
> I've had it for a few weeks now, which is still not enough time to really know
> it. But you know what? the fact that I don't like this album as much does not
[comment on this comming below...]
> The lyrics on this album SUCK compared to I&W. Yes, that is an opinion,
> not a fact. But it is a very valid opinion, and one which I can back up. I
> won't bother to now, because I already tried a few weeks ago and no one wanted
> to think enough to respond to it then, so I'm not going to waste my time now.
You didn't have a very open audience a few weeks ago (most of us didn't
have the album). If you would care to bring those up again, I'm sure I
would be interested in reading it (if noone else), and responding.
> If you think that these are good lyrics or that this is real emotion
> on FII, then maybe you really just don't get they're older albums anyways. I
> don't care how many people this pisses off, but If you can really put this
> new album on the same level as DT's older stuff, then you just weren't getting
> it in the first place. Yeah, that's just my opinion, and I can't really know
> that, but that's the only conclusion I can draw, because this album is NOT as
> deep as Images and Words or WDADU. And if it is, you couldn't possibly know that
> by now anyways, could you?
This is the paragraph that bugs me a bit along with parts of the two
previous. According to your statements here, you've decided the lyrics
suck and the lyrics (as well as the music it appears) are not on par with
DT's older works. However, you turn around and say 1) you haven't had the
album long enough to really know it, and 2) if the album IS as deep as the
older works, we can't know that by now.
My only point here is your basing your dislike of the lyrics (over previous
albums) on a short time of listening to them, and then telling others that
say the lyrics are great and deep, that they cannot possibly know that yet
after such a short time.
> >If I sound pissed off, I am. I joined this list because I thought that
> >it was for people who were fans of Dream Theater to discuss Dream
>
> I can tell. I joined this list so I could have some intelligent
> discussions about good music, and what good music is. Unfortunately, nowadays
> that discussion can only continue as long as no one says anything negative
> about OFB.
I won't deny, there are people here on this list that don't want to hear
anything "bad" said about DT. But that's not true of the entire list.
There are plenty of us that want to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly,
but with only one prerequisite....have substance to your reasons and say
why you like or dislike something (not directed at you, Clark, but people
in general).
Anyway, I still don't have any comments on how good FII is yet, because I
haven't even listened to it for a week yet. All I can say is, I like it, I
just don't know how much yet. :)
-- Mike Jones, mgjones@mcs.net _____________ Web Design: mike@biggorilla.com Progressive Genius( http://www.progmetal.org/ring )Progressive Metal Ring------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:33:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Thrak75@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: jesus fucking christ Message-ID: <970925203119_-1732414311@emout02.mail.aol.com>
is it me, or does john myung write the best songs? "trial" just absolutely floors me. what a fucking piece of work.
in-depth review of the musical content of fii eventually appearing. be forewarned.
ytsegoon
******************************************************************************
david y. kobayashi the new york law school thrak75@aol.com dkobayashi@nyls.edu
"i bring truth and understanding, i bring wit and wisdom fair- precious gifts beyond compare." -n. peart ******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:36:22 -0400 (EDT) From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3020 Message-ID: <01IO2MO7QGF69ODVAI@alma.edu>
> Why is this good? > Because it makes the music stronger... it sticks with you more >readily. This is imperative if they have any plans for significant airplay.
AArrrrrrr.... Chris, earlier today you posted about how no fan's opinion should ever interfere with what an artist writes! I don't have the actual post, but you probably do. Jeez, your as bad as me. -Clark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:55:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: break like the wind Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.970925204019.19936D-100000@moose>
i'm tired (cue blazing saddles cabaret song here)
walked to tiger stadium and back (3 miles each way, not really a big deal) and the team didn't even have the decency to win for me.....and then the elevator was too slow in my building, so i walked the stairs.....bad move.....what 3 miles (no sweat, well, sweat, but not tiring) couldn't do, 11 flights accomplished.....
jon parmet: you're having too much fun......and getting eoj's too?
clark abel: hey, how goes the life? Lemme take a shot at "mature"
background: i&w is tied for all time fave album status in my book, so i LOVE those so called wanky passages....they're just damn cool music to me
FII, after a month (but still without having the cd) falls between I&W and former #2 WDADU.......
Take those 'flashy' or 'wanky' passages that I like so much..... away from I&W, and it's not #1 in my book.....
The thing about FII is that it gets to that high level without having those types of passages.....and to me, that suggests that Dream Theater has gone to a point where they can write great, solid songs that make an impact on me without needing those 'wankynesses' to hit me over my head.... In comparing I&W to FII, i hear flashy (no matter how cool) going to solid middle age, and in my book, that's maturity.......
i'm just one single fan opining.....if it's not clear (and it might not be, as i started thinking aobut it five minutes ago), feel free to e-mail......you know the code (cue AT&T operator voice here)
partha
"history .... is a consensus hallucination" james cameron, director of terminator 2, titanic, et al
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:47:08 -0400 (EDT) From: DrummerEsh@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: FII Message-ID: <970925204546_1990714299@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Well ok now its my turn. I like FII the music is great but im really into the progressevness of there old stuff and the complexity not to say that FII doesnt have that, but not enough of it i think. I thought the recording wasnt all that great compared to Awake which i think was beutifully recorded. One thing that hasnt changed is the lenght of there songs which i was happy to see.
ESH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:50:40 -0700 From: "James Bennett" <rycher@thegrid.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: The blind guys speaks about FII Message-ID: <01bcca16$36188880$dd663cd1@i574747.thegrid.net>
>Why is it that every list I am >on, whether it be Rush's, genesis's, and especially Yes's are like this. >This album sucks. It isn't like album X in their hayday. Screw off. Fuck > the band, they sold out. I am tired of it.
Why is this such a problem? People are expressing their opinions. It doesnt make them wrong or you right. Attacking someones honest opinion is pointless. The best thing to do is offer your reasons for holding your personal opinions.
I can look back at a lot of my favorite bands and say for example: "I think Rush was at one of their peaks when (insert album here) was released, and in comparision- I don't like (insert album here) as much" ...... Its my opinion!
I can pick out my favorite albums by many groups, sure they are all "different" and they all show "change"..... but I like some of them better than others!
After you listen to a group for a while you come to like them for some reason or another, and if they put out one album that just doesnt do it for you- I dont think its wrong to say I liked them better back then or whatever. Its an opinion. I can go back and listen to that one album a million times if I want to.
Now if a person just says blah blah blah it sucks blah blah blah its crap, blah blah blah im a pissing whiner.....then maybe you should ignore them.
btw....i like FII :-)
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:07:08 -0500 (CDT) From: BillB67@ix.netcom.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3017 Message-ID: <199792520929541@ix.netcom.com>
> What the heck is Deep In Heaven??? I'd wonder if that was a >super-hidden bonus track like the ones on NiN-Broken..but my CD player
Could someone enlighten me on this "bonus track"... I had not heard about this before
NP: FII (sans TAMP)
Tazzmann
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 10:18:10 +0900 From: s963713@ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp (SUZUKI Jun'ya) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Regarding Bonus tracks of Japanese edition FII CD Message-ID: <199709260118.KAA07569@icho.ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Hi there,
If you'd like to know what songs on the bonus single CD with Japanese FII CD, visit my www site and download the jpg of the disc. Location is;
http://www.ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp/~s963713/main.html
Take care,
Jun'ya -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- SUZUKI Jun'ya s963713@ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp Master's Proglam in Biosystem Studies, University of Tsukuba RUSH and Dream Theater Japanese information: http://www.ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp/~s963713/ Live and Rare recordings: http://www.ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp/~s963713/html/trade/trade.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:20:42 -0400 From: "ÞrØgßø¥" <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3017 Message-ID: <342B0DE9.371C0135@caribe.net>
BillB67@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> > What the heck is Deep In Heaven??? I'd wonder if that was a > >super-hidden bonus track like the ones on NiN-Broken..but my CD player > > Could someone enlighten me on this "bonus track"... I had not heard about this before > > NP: FII (sans TAMP) > > Tazzmann
deep in heaven is the instrumental part of trail of tears .. (ie. part II)
--
In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:progboy@mindless.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 08:44:29 -0300 From: Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com> To: Freaks R Us <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: New CD's (NOFIIC) Message-ID: <33F9871D.3B5CEB90@geocities.com>
Hey there jammanoids!!!
I think that acronym means... not *ONLY* FII content. =)
Just got my copy today, and here's my opinio after the very first listen (actually, I've only heard it once): it's a pretty good CD, I don't think it compares do Awake or IAW, but it's very cool. Some songs are amazing (New Millenium, Lines in the Sand - although, for some particular reason, I did not like Doug Pinnick's vocals on that... maybe I need some more listens =) ), some lame ones (Hollow Years...), but I liked the album a lot. I could not wait (I mean, wait$$$) for the japanese with extra tracks, so I got the american release... I won't post a song-by-song review, there has been so much of that lately. =) But, one thing that really dissapointed me, and I *REALLY* mean it, was the sound quality... Compared to any other DT CD, the quality of this sucks. I can't explain in technical terms, =), but, just listen to it, it sounds awfully bad... Maybe if I listen to it in the car I'll have a better impression (I'm using the PC, my stereo is broken, but I have some cool speakers, so that's not the problem...). But, aside from that, it's a very very cool album. Maybe I would have liked it more, if I hadn't bought Angra's Holy Land at the same time. =) Awesome CD, I won't talk much cause I think every jammer already has this one. =) Is it just me, or anyone else also remembered of Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer" at the beginning of "The Shaman"??? =) It's not exactly the same thing, but very close... =) Now, gotta find Angel's Cry, that one kicks Holy Land's ass. =)
-- []'s /**********************************************\ |* Marcelo Vanzin *| |* vanzin@geocities.com *| |* http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ *| \**********************************************/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:45:31 -0400 From: "ÞrØgßø¥" <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Regarding Bonus tracks of Japanese edition FII CD Message-ID: <342B13BB.CEA6B3F@caribe.net>
SUZUKI Jun'ya wrote:
> Hi there, > > If you'd like to know what songs on the bonus single CD with Japanese > FII CD, visit my www site and download the jpg of the disc. Location is; > > http://www.ipe.tsukuba.ac.jp/~s963713/main.html > > Take care, > > Jun'ya >
could yo utell us?? its in japanese... and really small Jpg too.. thanx .. take care --
In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:progboy@mindless.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:22:28 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: I made you out of clay! Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970926022228.00c74510@pop.enteract.com>
>From: Brandon Elhai <belhai@drew.edu> >Subject: Chris Ptacek > >I have one question for you Chris-- > >How do find all this time to write such long posts to the ytsejam?
Ever hear of college? Muahahaha! Actually, it's been a long time since I've written this kind of stuff (You're now thinking "I wish it was even just a little bit longer") but there have been some major ytsethings on my mind recently. Your suffering will end soon.
>From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu> >Subject: Re: Oh, forgive me... > > I KNEW I'd get a response from Chris Ptacek!
Elementary, my dear Watson. Most of the points that you were griping about either originated in one of my posts or were similar to what I had to say. Regardless, I think this case is closed, unless we need to go out to the baseball field after class so I can FLATTEN YOU LIKE A FUCKING PANCAKE. BOYEEE. The price is wrong, bitch! :) You can have your nipples and tweak them too.
Christopher W. Ptacek IRC: Madsman Tech Support EnterAct, L.L.C. http://www.enteract.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman
"You can be a dreamer You can be your dream come true Let imagination lead Reality will follow through" - Michael Hedges
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3022 **************************
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