YTSEJAM digest 3029

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Sat Sep 27 1997 - 02:12:57 EDT

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 3027"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 3029

    Today's Topics:

      1) Re:
     by "ÞrØgßø¥" <calfaro@caribe.net>
      2) DT Thoughts
     by Carol Dellinger <coldfire@pacbell.net>
      3) My FII review/re-sequencing
     by michael.bradley@mail.cc.trincoll.edu (Michael Bradley)
      4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3026
     by DrummerEsh@aol.com
      5) Phish/FW
     by "Brown, Neal Patrick" <W059@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
      6) Falling back into the jam?
     by "S.D.D." <103430.227@compuserve.com>
      7) Thoughts on FII
     by Nikolaos Koutsomarkos <nkouts@deslab.ntua.gr>
      8) Awake/ACoS
     by Glover <glover@dns.thewebcorp.com>
      9) Liner Note TYPO!!!!!!!!!! In case you haven't found it yet ;)
     by JE78674@ltu.edu
     10) I'm getting sick of this...
     by MTeiper@aol.com
     11) Portnoy's been listening to TOO MUCH HELMET...
     by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
     12) ummmmmmmmm
     by DrummerEsh@aol.com
     13) Brandon Elhai and APSOG
     by "Rob Doyle" <c694232@showme.missouri.edu>
     14) FII and DT on Long Island
     by wilsncat@erols.com
     15) Apsog/production
     by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
     16) Re: ummmmmmmmm
     by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:27:52 -0400
    From: "ÞrØgßø¥" <calfaro@caribe.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re:
    Message-ID: <342C6118.75524093@caribe.net>

    Jeffrey Falk wrote:

    > I know. I didn't say it was, either. Maybe I should have made
    > myself clearer. What I meant was I like the original, "cheesy eighties"
    > intro better than the "balls and chunk" "Puppies On Acid." (Not that I
    > don't like "Puppies On Acid." I just wish it had a decent title.)

    i dont know im now im misunderstanding you... you mean youliked TTT's cheesy 80's
    intro better than pOA? ....if so.. well... every boot i have and the LiT video has
    it this way... they go into puppies on acid..but after that intro they go right to
    the original intro...they dont substitute TTT's cd intro with PoA...
    if you didnt mean that well..sorry :) hehe

                       In the stream of consciousness
                         There is a river crying
                         Living comes much easier
                        Once we admit , We're dying.
                      Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand
                     http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro
             mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:progboy@mindless.com
                    Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:44:28 -0700
    From: Carol Dellinger <coldfire@pacbell.net>
    To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: DT Thoughts
    Message-ID: <342C64FC.46C0@pacbell.net>

    I've stuck my big toe in with a small post, but now, fuck it! It's time
    to get brave, strip down and just jump right into the deep end.

    Some DT thoughts if you will.....

    I love the fact that I come home and have so many Ytsejam digests to
    read. I can't stop thinking on that train ride home, what will be said
    next.

    I love the fact that everyone is so passionate in their opinions on
    everything that is DT. I also love that fact that we can all agree to
    disagree.

    I love the fact that even though these are only words in a digest, there
    are distinct personalities on the list (Eckie, Chris Ptacek, D-Man, Big
    Swifty, etc) and they shine through in their posts.

    I love the fact that if I end up being wrong about something, someone
    will enlighten me and give me something new to think about.

    I hate the fact that there are no DT fans where I work. On the upside,
    my boss is a major Rush fan, and so he lets me sandwich DT between
    layers of Rush.

    I love the fact that when I got in my car the other day and turned on
    the local station (KSJO) and w/out any introduction, "knew" that it was
    the new DT, BMS! It must be that indefineable quality that DT has?!

    I love the fact that I can sit in my room late at nite, no lights on,
    listening to DT and the music just surrounds me like water. I feel the
    music inside and out, it's like I'm floating! I also love the fact that
    time stands still while listening this way. Here's a thought...is DT
    the missing fountain of youth?

    I love the fact that DT moves me like nothing else.....well maybe one
    thing.

    I love the fact that each DT CD sounds different and yet you can still
    tell it's DT. I love that while not every song knocks me over at
    first, that there will be songs I love and songs that don't strike me
    and it's okay....it doesn't make me not like DT!

    I hate the fact that I won't be able to get FII until Christmas.

    I love the fact that since receiving the Ytsejams, I am being drawn out
    of my shell.

    BTW, Interesting suggestion regarding what to do with your CD:
    >
    > 1. BREAK THE CD INTO 4 PARTS
    > 2. GRASP THEM FIRMLY WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND
    > 3. JAM IT HARD UP YOUR ASS WHOLE

    But personally, I can think of something better to do sexually with my
    DT CD's!

    Whew! That's alot...... I know I haven't pleased everybody with this
    post.....who can? I only hope that I didn't piss everybody off! Oh
    well.....If I did....let the flames begin!

    It's getting dark now, think I'll turn out the lights, crank up the DT
    and.......

    coldfire

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:51:37 -0400
    From: michael.bradley@mail.cc.trincoll.edu (Michael Bradley)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: My FII review/re-sequencing
    Message-ID: <199709270142.VAA04074@mail.trincoll.edu>

    Hey guys!

    I've been gone a while. It seems there is a lot of controversy about the
    new album. Here's my two cents: FII, for my taste, is too much of a
    departure from DT's trademark sound to believe that they were not pressured
    by commercial factors. A friend of mine mistook the chorus of You Not Me
    for a Def Leppard tune he hadn't heard yet. I have to agree with him. The
    songs we saw at the Fix for '96 shows are pretty cool on the new album and
    LitS is killer. Derek and John Myung sound great, but in general I just
    think Kevin Shirley doesn't get it. The drum production on this album
    sounds exactly like Aerosmith's Nine Lives! I'll have to give this album
    time, but I'm really counting on Metropolis Pt. 2 to deliver the goods.

    If any of you are interesting, I've been listening to the album in a
    different sequence that might be more enjoyable to some fans. I think it
    rocks a little harder this way. Here goes:

                                                            Burning My Soul
                                                            Hell's Kitchen
                                                            Lines in the Sand
                                                            Peruvian Skies
                                                            You Not Me
                                                            New Millenium
                                                            Take Away My Pain
                                                            Just Let Me Breathe
                                                            Hollow Years
                                                            Trial of Tears

    (Yes, I omitted Anna Lee).

    Later all!

    -Mike

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:48:40 -0400 (EDT)
    From: DrummerEsh@aol.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3026
    Message-ID: <970926214812_978623077@emout20.mail.aol.com>

    The snare sounds like a brass snare to me, i dont like it much, but if you
    notice that the snares sound changes on Lines In The Sand it sounds great
    there. Dont like the sound of the drums on Anna Lee could have been much
    better, but hey i love Tama its one of the best especially that starclassic
    set, pure genuis!!!

    ESH

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:57:41 CDT
    From: "Brown, Neal Patrick" <W059@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>
    To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Phish/FW
    Message-ID: <26SEP97.22638441.0059.MUSIC@ACADEMIC.TRUMAN.EDU>

    Almost forgot...someone asked about Phish's Rift. It is most certainly a
    concept album, and a very good one at that. Some parts towards the
    beginning are sort of boring (Fast Enough For You, Wedge) but Rift,
    Maze, and most of the second half of the CD are excellent. Everyone's
    been comparing FII to Fates Warning's A Pleasant Shade Of Gray.
    Unfortunately for me, I'm not a FW fan, because I bought the damn
    Chasing Time compilation, which was hideous. If that is any indication,
    FW is just another glam-metal band, but the way people talk about FW, I
    wonder if that's just the worst compilation ever. Any suggestions?
    (Please send via e-mail, not Ytsejam =) ) I can't stand glam rock or
    metal (Queensryche, Rush, an d DT are great bands that sound like glam
    but really aren't!!), so keep that in mind, please...next random topic:
    what is up with the art for FII? For that matter, where the sam-hell did
    the name "Falling Into infinity" come from anyway? Falling and infinity
    aren't really symbols anywhere in the lyrics that I've been able to see,
    and the whole thing about binoculars just confuses the hell out of me.
    Any thoughts? Also: DT without Kevin Moore is DT without Kevin Moore.
    This is not Tull without Anderson (or Yes without Anderson) or Abbott
    without Costello. Please remove your head from the sand and accept the f
    act that band lineups are inherently unstable, and for that matter,
    Kevin really had a lot of bad habits--i.e., doubling the guitar parts
    during sections where the counterpoint could have been eye-popping.
    Several parts of FII feature what Moore could have been doing if he
    hadn't been playing exactly what Petrucci was--the (overly brief!)
    time-warp Bach-on-crack sections of Just Let Me Breathe, and most of New
    Millenium is very contrapuntal, etc. Somehow, I expect Moore would have
    just followed Petrucci. No, DT is still very much in existence.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:54:58 -0400
    From: "S.D.D." <103430.227@compuserve.com>
    To: Chris Ptacek <someone@prognosis.com>
    Cc: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Falling back into the jam?
    Message-ID: <199709262156_MC2-21FB-B7B3@compuserve.com>

    Chris (& YTSEJAM),

    I must point out a glaring double standard that any sober reading of your
    correspondence would reveal. You seem to indicate that DT, or any other
    artist(s), can express anything they desire for the sake of
    "limitation-less" art and should not be questioned or given honest
    feedback/advice; however, I, on the other hand, should not express MY
    thoughts and feelings (in the form of a balanced album review in this
    particular case) without being thoroughly criticized.

    Many people are so blinded by their non-objective love for DT (and
    stubbornly non-cognizant of that fact) that they read far too much into
    everything (such as some supposedly redeeming value) and see only what they
    want to see, but are unable to step back and discern the big picture. I
    wish people would stop being so emotional and defensive, and taking so
    personally things that do not even pertain to them. The members of DT are
    big boys, can accept genuine criticism, and they don't need anyone's "help"
    to "defend" them. Indeed, true artists not only accept honest, tactful
    criticism, but treasure it much more than a blind bow. Remember, I have
    only said these things BECAUSE I greatly admire the musicians of DT (and,
    thus, they possess greater potential to disappoint). Even though I
    typically don't play "favorites," one could say that DT is still my
    favorite hard prog. rock ensemble.

    <<We all agree most of the time, that music is basically an expression of
    emotion. The goal then, would be to write a song that embodies the emotion
    you set out to personify>>
    You and I differ in schools of thought here. The late twentieth-century
    college/univ. (& music/art school) mentality promotes a sort of "hippie"
    philosophy of art. The music industry is overflowing with such subjective,
    no-rules, "let's express ourselves" music - music that basically
    self-edifies the artist(s) (i.e. skill, fun, catharsis, ego, attention,
    money, sex, power, etc.). Whereas music should really lean more toward the
    edification of the LISTENER more often than not.

    And here's a surprise sidenote for you Chris - I am myself technically
    within the "Generation X" age group of which I referred to before, and if
    you had done any serious sociological research in this area, you too would
    easily draw the same conclusions (which are, of course, only
    generalizations, as I clearly stated previously). I appreciate your
    comments Chris, but this needs to be our last correspondence. I just don't
    have the time right now for maintaining an on-going correspondence of this
    sort.

    And I thought I'd close by saying that I still do not see this great
    expression of ethics & faith that so many "DT apologists" have apparently
    read into their music by frantically searching for a few vague spiritual
    innuendos. Please open your eyes and read the band members respective
    lyrics. There are lines here and there indicating Petrucci's Italian
    Catholic upbringing (and Moore perhaps coming from an Irish Catholic
    background, Portnoy perhaps Italian Catholic possibly mixed with some
    Judaism, Myung - eclectic Taoism, LaBrie - maybe Canadian French Catholic,
    etc.), and, thus, there's syncretism, doubt, confusion, bitterness,
    discontentment and searching, but no strong Christian faith (which is
    indeed sad).

    P.S. - Though I simply do not have enough time available to respond in
    detail to all the other more affirming e-mails I received, I do very much
    appreciate the reassurance that I was indeed not a lone voice in the
    wilderness. Thanks for the support, and remember - don't stop thinking for
    yourselves!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 05:13:51 +0300
    From: Nikolaos Koutsomarkos <nkouts@deslab.ntua.gr>
    To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Thoughts on FII
    Message-ID: <342C6BDF.9855876B@deslab.ntua.gr>

    Hi guys.
    This is my first post on the list, although I'm a DT fan for a couple of
    years or more.
    Well here's my (humble?) opinion on FII.

    First of all, FII is GREAT! The forst time I heard it, I felt a little
    bit akward, because the sound is different. But hearing it over and over
    I think that DT did a great job. Especially LITS, BMS and JLMB are
    outstanding. The production is also great (although at first I had an
    objection on the tuning of Portnoy's snares).
    Well, overall.. the sound IS different and it SHOULD BE different.
    But it's still DT! It couldn't be anything else!

    Hollow Years sounds a bit like Sting, and Anna Lee sounds like something
    between Queen and Pink Floyd. But they also have that distinctive DT
    touch that makes them unique.

    I hope their next album will be again different but DTish!!! :)

    -- 
    Nikolaos Koutsomarkos
    nkouts@deslab.ntua.gr
    ----------------------------------
    - "To live effectively, is to live with adequate information"
    - "The survival value of human intelligence has never been
       satisfactorily demonstrated"
    

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:25:50 -0500 From: Glover <glover@dns.thewebcorp.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Awake/ACoS Message-ID: <342C7CBE.F7E@dns.thewebcorp.com>

    As expected, people on the ytsejam have been posting their opinions about the new Dream Theater album. Just out of curiosity, what were the thoughts on Awake and A.C.o.S. when they were released. Did most like them at first or were they mostly hated? I wasn't on the list then.

    -C. Glover

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: JE78674@ltu.edu To: YTSEJAM@ax.com Subject: Liner Note TYPO!!!!!!!!!! In case you haven't found it yet ;) Message-ID: <01IO46HKTCLE936GW3@LTU.EDU>

    OK peoples....Go to the You Not Me lyrics and right above the end section that says: "Lyrics by John Petrucci and Desmond Child"

    It's All About You Not Me It's All Abou You Not Me

    It's there alright!

    Perhaps it's James trying to use his Canadian style of saying "ou" in their particular fashion, eh you Canadian Hosers? ;)

    Later,

    Jeff E.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:14:58 -0400 (EDT) From: MTeiper@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: I'm getting sick of this... Message-ID: <970926231236_317056238@emout14.mail.aol.com>

    Hey all -

    Just one beef here...

    Why is it that the majority of the reviews of FII read thusly:

    "I really like FII, BUT..."

    Why does everyone feel the need to compare it to their past work, when it's like comparing apples and oranges? Every good band evolves artistically (with the exception of AC/DC... hey, sue me, I still love these guys too), and I find it shocking that anybody expected a rehash of what they've already done. How can we say that one thing "is" or "is not" Dream Theater, when the music produced by the guys has changed pretty radically with each release?

    Sorry 'bout the harsh tone, but I think that I am overdosing on cold medicine...

    The moral of the story: Does FII rule? You bet your ass it does. Is it like anything they've ever done? Nope. Just try to accept it for the masterpiece that it is and call it a day...

    Peace all.... Matt

    NP: Hollow Years

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:43:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> To: A Ytse Besides Itself <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Portnoy's been listening to TOO MUCH HELMET... Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970927004127.5424B-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>

    ...which isn't necessarily a bad thing. :)

    I've sat for days, and i've finally come to the decision. Mike Portnoy wants to have as annoying of a snare drum as John Stainer, the guy from Helmet. I can't tell who's snare is wound up tighter.

    Play any Helmet song from Betty, and then play any song from FII. You'll see what i mean instantly.

    * * * * * * * e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com erotomania!: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/ offical lemur voice homepage: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm

    (c) 1997 Happy Fun Ball, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:50:50 -0400 (EDT) From: DrummerEsh@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: ummmmmmmmm Message-ID: <970927005049_-1430988724@emout05.mail.aol.com>

    Does anyone think that the actual recording not song writing was rushed for all us DT enthusiasts??? Does anyone think that wastwest or southeast whatever records kind of forced DT into writing more "radio" type songs to make more money off them?? Just a few thoughts.

    ESH

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 00:12:34 -0500 From: "Rob Doyle" <c694232@showme.missouri.edu> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Brandon Elhai and APSOG Message-ID: <199709270513.AAA66300@sp2n09.missouri.edu>

    So why can't a concept album only have one song on it? There's a band called "Edge of Sanity" that has a record called Crimson that consists of one song- exactly 40 minutes long. (40:00) So what makes this different from APSOG??

    Rush has very rarely played all of 2112 in concert- usually they just play a few of the movements- but 2112 is still a SONG (yes, I realize it's different because APSOG has no other songs on it as 2112 [the album] does)

    I just don't get it why you don't think a band wouldn't play all of a song ever- Metallica (for example) does it all the time- they'll put together a big medley, or just play the beginning of something- even DT has played a whole bunch of songs only part way through.

    I think it's safe to say that APSOG is a "CONCEPT ALBUM (dammit)" that consists of just one song.

    -ROB Doyle

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 01:18:14 -0400 From: wilsncat@erols.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: FII and DT on Long Island Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970927011812.0068dd60@pop.erols.com>

    Well, Just got back from the FII release party.

    It was cool, John Myung and James LaBrie were there (not the whole band, like the radio station was saying :( )

    The club played the album and they signed CD's and Posters.

    John Myung spoke to me....

    Me: When are you gonna play NY?

    JM: "Keep Checkin The Web Page"

    Thats it!

    at least I got a whole sentence!

    Not a very big turn out, only 100 or so people!

    I took some pics....maybe I'll have a friend of mine scan them in..

    Kevin (WilsonCat)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:45:13 -0400 From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack) To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Apsog/production Message-ID: <19970926194717.AAA10788@sni.pananet.com>

    > Ok..but its different from APSOG and O:M, since besides maybe track II and VI > of apsog are the only ones that can be played apart and still make a lot of > sense.. (im not writing well..but i guess you know what i mean) and the songs > from O:M stood for themselves each and every one of them.. on APSOG most trax > *need* the others .... they could still do what dt did at the Fix shows..with > aCos..incorporate the bits and pieces of the song with the other stuff... >

    I cant agree here. Part II, III, V, and IX can all be played on their own. And actually a couple more too, but their arguable. Of course I guess they won't have as much emotional impact, but they are complete songs. FW could easily play a shortened version on future tours, too.

    About production: Rogerio brought up an interesting question: What is production? I always thought I knew, but now that i think about it... Weren't producers invented by the record companies basically to make hits? It would seem to me that they are the eyes and ears of the record label, while the band/musician is in th studio. Giving suggestions on arrangements and sound. But wouldn't the guy who actually take care of how an album sound be the sound engineer? This is after all what they study. I'd think that while the producer may give suggestions like "this needs to sound more airy" or "give the drums more oomph", the sound engineer is the guy who really handles the recording. Am i wrong here? Any experienced people know what the real deal is?

    Ernesto

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 00:59:42 -0400 From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack) To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: ummmmmmmmm Message-ID: <19970926195641.AAA10902@sni.pananet.com>

    > Does anyone think that the actual recording not song writing was rushed for > all us DT enthusiasts???

    could be possible

    Does anyone think that wastwest or southeast > whatever records kind of forced DT into writing more "radio" type songs to > make more money off them??

    Considering that most of these songs were written long before they went into the studio, I doubt it.

    omer wrote: >BUT!(here it comes) i think that DT has changed too damn much,and >some songs HAVE to be removed from the DT song list,like take away my >pain,anna lee & of course you not me! >i see here a BIG,HUGH AND UN-NOTICE-UBLE SELL OUT in these three >titles,

    Ok, Take Away My Pain, the song were JP pours his soul out about his father's death is a sellout song...uh-huh, right.

    >and if someone wanna argue with me on this one,better read the >Kevin James LaBrie interview that goes like:"we wanna sell as many >albums as we can,blah blah blah...."

    Gosh darnit, he said they wanted to tap into the Rush/Pink Floyd fanbase. That's all he said. That's why, of all the 3 hours-worth material they had written, they picked the ones that would suit this goal. Read more carefully please.

    >LISTEN AND LISTEN GOOD: >DREAM THEATER WITHOUT KEVIN MOORE ISN'T DREAM THEATER!!!!

    Then what in fuck's name is Yes now-a-days??

    >argue if you want >becuase I'M right.... the truth hurts,doesn't it?

    No, you thinking you're right hurts.

    I don't mind ppl not liking the album, but please refrain from saying such stupidity.

    >omer-ISRAEL

    Ernesto-PANAMA

    ------------------------------

    End of YTSEJAM Digest 3029 **************************



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