YTSEJAM Digest 3734
Today's Topics:
1) re : Empty Tremor
by Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@FH-Niederrhein.DE>
2) Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC)
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
3) Re: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC)
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
4) Oops! / TWoM
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@ameritech.net>
5) Happy Easter and survey
by Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com>
6) Re: re : Empty Tremor
by Robert Taylor <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
7) Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
8) Blaze and Maiden, Blind Guardian
by Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
9) Re: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC)
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
10) Mike Bahr is a bully.
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
11) Philly show
by Greg1680 <Greg1680@aol.com>
12) Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
13) Re: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC)
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
14) Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by "Chris C." <chris-76@prodigy.net>
15) New CD's / Philly anyone???
by Brian Larkin <ambicwts@postoffice.ptd.net>
16) Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
17) Re: bikers for teacher
by "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:00:26 -0700
From: Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@FH-Niederrhein.DE>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: re : Empty Tremor
Message-ID: <353163AA.4463@kr.fh-niederrhein.de>
Juan Fco. Quintero wrote :
>Great news for American proglovers!
>(I took the news from the Progressive Rock Scene Newspaper - 10 April 1998)
>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>Empty Tremor have a great
>challenge going on at the moment.
>Magna Carta is considering to
>distribute 'Apocolokyntosys' in
>the US. Rising Sun is doing a
>good price for Europe but it's really
>sad to know that US friends have to
>pay so much for Empty Tremor's
>debut album. So if you are living in
>the US and interested in our music,
>soon you will have the opportunity to
>buy the album in the US, for the
>same price as in Europe!
Yes and you can help the band:
Just email MAGNA CARTA with a positive and good recomandation.
Magna Carta's email address is : magcart@aol.com
For now, KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND has some copies of "Apocolokyntosys" in their
stock for 17,90 $, which is a good price.
Go to: http://www.knightsoftheround.com
NP : Dream Theater - Den Bosch 3.12.97 (2CD) <--- this boot CD from Marcel Berkhout kicks ass
Arash
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page |
| |
| DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY |
| |
| http://lionel.kr.fh-niederrhein.de/~ashouria/index.htm |
| OR |
| http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ |
| |
| by Arash Ashouriha |
| |
| ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:11:36 -0400
From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980412161136.006fedc8@pop.pipeline.com>
D-Man sputtered:
>Hey gang. I'm thinking about the May 5th Baltimore DT show. Who's going?
More importantly, if I do indeed go, who would be kind enough to donate some
floor space for me and my traveling companions?
>-d
First of all, I wouldn't go out of my way to see a concert at Daytona's.
You guys must not read my posts, because the club *SUCKS*. I have not
been to a worse club for live music. As for floor space, that's what
you're gonna need at Daytona's, because there isn't any.
Secondly, word has it that DT will be playing JAXX around then.
I was there last night to see Division for free (thanks for the
cd, Mike), and on their board there was a listing for DT. I thought it
said May 9th or something like that, though. Also, it looks like
Savatage is coming back to JAXX, too.
Finally, uh, there is nothing else!
CD of the Day: Division - Demo '98
Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
Detroit Red Wings 1996-97 Stanley Cup Champions
44-20-15 vs Winnepeg Jets
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:40:27 -0400
From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC)
Message-ID: <199804121640.MAA01061@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
Kev advised:
> First of all, I wouldn't go out of my way to see a concert at Daytona's.
> You guys must not read my posts, because the club *SUCKS*. I have not
> been to a worse club for live music. As for floor space, that's what
> you're gonna need at Daytona's, because there isn't any.
>
> Secondly, word has it that DT will be playing JAXX around then.
> I was there last night to see Division for free (thanks for the
> cd, Mike), and on their board there was a listing for DT. I thought it
> said May 9th or something like that, though.
Muh. The only reason I'm thinking Balto is because that's closest to
here (Williamsburg). I'd go to the NY and Philly shows if they
weren't during finals week (dammit Mike, you guys have a knack for
that! :). But Jaxx is an awesome alternative. We could come back the
same night, like we did back in November for the Ballroom gig.
OK. Dave, Alex (the chick :), Scotch, whoever else is in the area.
Let's all consult our gods, goddesses, deities, spirits, or other
supernatural powers of choice and have them consult with DT's booking
agent (whoever the hell that is! If I knew, I'd be placing some phone
calls...) and GET THEM TO JAXX!!
Mike, dude, I know you're reading. *thisisasubliminalmessage* Come to
Virginia! :)
So, now that puts me in the host position. If this Jaxx gig pans out,
I'll have floor space for 1-3 jammers travelling from elsewhere
(further south, I'd imagine, or else it really wouldn't make any
sense).
-d
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough
cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:52:32 -0400
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@ameritech.net>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Oops! / TWoM
Message-ID: <3530F150.6028871@ameritech.net>
Oops! I didn't mean to send that EVH comment twice! SORRY! (I know
that's so annoying)
- The Wake of Magellan -
Anybody who hasn't gotten this CD yet, you're missing out big time.
This is honestly and truly one of the best discs I've ever heard.
It's for anyone who....
a. Likes fairly heavy music
b. Likes intelligent music
c. Likes GREAT VOCALS
d. Has at least a little appreciation for piano/ classical music
NP: "Morning Sun" from Savatage's TWoM
- Joe D.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:45:56 -0400
From: Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Happy Easter and survey
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980412134556.006bcc8c@mail.isminternet.com>
First off, a Happy Easter to all! Hope your weather is as good as ours
here in the tropical paradise of Pittsburgh, PA. :)
Just to let you know, this is your last chance to vote in the current
Prog-Net survey. The voting will end on Monday at midnight, so please
visit if you haven't already. Prog-Net is a website that allows readers to
share opinions, reviews, and announcements about Progressive music. There
are new reviews posted each day.
Prog-Net is: http://www.isminternet.com/prognet/
Thanks,
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:05:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Taylor <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: re : Empty Tremor
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980412125846.14786A-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Arash Ashouriha wrote:
> For now, KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND has some copies of "Apocolokyntosys" in their
> stock for 17,90 $, which is a good price.
> Go to: http://www.knightsoftheround.com
Or you can order it from the Laser's Edge for $16, also. But e-mail first
to make sure he has it in stock (lasercd@aol.com). That's how I got it.
I've only listened to it twice so far, but I am impressed. I can't give a
detailed review yet, but there are a few musical moments that are
reminscent of I&W/WDADU. I wouldn't say it's an I&W clone, though.
Robert Taylor
rctaylor@uiuc.edu
http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~rctaylor
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:24:12 -0400
From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980412142409.0069c204@pop.mindspring.com>
Hey folks..
Disclaimer: I apologize for posting this to the 'Jam, but I feel it is 100%
warranted because of the situation you can read about below.
About five months ago I posted to the Jam about my order for two sets of
Virtual Songs, a Rush triple CD boot Mike Bahr put out. I ordered my
copies ($150 total) last March (that's March 1997). I'd ordered from Mike
before and tho' his turnaround times were always "bottom of the barrel,"
I'd always received my CDs in a relativey timely fashion (b/t 3 and 6
months). I'd written several _very_ polite emails to Mike about this delay
and warned him a few times (after the 10th month of waiting) that I was
going to post something like this to the 'Jam. He never replied, so I
posted "An Open Letter to Mike Bahr" somewhere around November or so.
After starting quite the discussion in this open forum, Mike finally
replied to me and said my discs were going to be here very soon and
apologizing for the lengthy delay. Sounded great.
The present: It's now about 13 months after my payment was shipped off to
Arizona, and I still have nothing to show for it. I got the Virtual Songs
show on cassette, so I don't need VS anymore, but my brother wanted to keep
waiting for his on CD. I asked Mike a couple of months ago if he could
substitute Stream of Consciousness (two CD) and Visions of Another Time (1
CD) for one copy of Virtual Songs. Fine, he said. After three weeks I was
not in the "Current Update" and my brother's VS had still not been sent
out. I wrote him to remind him of this, and he apologized again and said
my name would be added to the SoC and VoAT lists on the next update and
that my brother's CDs would be out in the next day or two, if they hadn't
already left in a recent shipment. Great, I thought, this fiasco finally
comes to an end. But alas, this is Mike Bahr we're talking about.
So, six weeks after he promises me my name would be added to the lists and
six weeks after he promises me that my brother's VS set would be out
"within the week," I still haven't gotten either of those promises
fulfilled. I wrote him this past week telling him I'd start writing
letters like this one (tho' I hate doing this kinda bullshit) to the 'Jam,
newsgroups, etc if I didn't see some sort of progress. I think I'm
justified after 13-14 months of getting the runaround. He didn't respond.
I wrote him later in the week, telling him I'd start writing Friday. He
didn't respond. I gave him an extra two days (it's Sunday now), and
nothing has changed. You'd think any businessman with a shred of common
sense would want to head this off before it, once again, started a public
discussion. But hey, this is Mike Bahr we're talking about.
I consider myself an extremely patient and forgiving person, and I've damn
well proved it by not flying off the handle once after waiting over a year
for mechandise I've already paid for. However, I can't tolerate anymore a
businessman with so little intregrity. I know I'm not the only one who's
had this kind of problem, either. I got a dozen emails the last time I
posted something like this with people telling me of fairly similar
situations with Prism Records. Mike, as far as I'm concerned you're a
liar, a thief, and you're taking advantage of people left and right. I
could be wrong there, I suppose - maybe you're just 100% incompetent to run
a business. Prism Records is a farce and an embarassment to the online
music and bootlegging community, and many experienced boot traders look
upon it as a kind of joke. I've spoken to several people who feel this way
and at this point I'm inclined to agree.
I urge STRONGLY anyone considering ordering from Prism Records to refrain
from doing so. Many people do get their CDs in a (for Mike Bahr) timely
fashion, but if you're not one of those lucky folks, expect some major
problems even getting Mike to acknowledge your existence. Order from
Scarred Records, Xanadu (Suck My Disc Inc.), or Eric Rodger (KAI) for far
better service, and you'd be supporting people with far more honesty,
integrity, and plain business sense than Mike Bahr and Prism Records could
ever muster.
__________________________________________________
Adam Pye
alpineone(-at-)mindspring.com ICQ: 9382967
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone/tapelist.html
^^ Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:07:55 -0300
From: Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Blaze and Maiden, Blind Guardian
Message-ID: <352B92CB.AE575037@geocities.com>
Hey there jammanoids!
> ------------------------------
> From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
> Subject: Re: Blaze and Maiden
> Yeah, he finished the contest in 4th place... Which criteria has
> S. Harris used to choose their singer? I find it highly biased to discard
> such talented people such as A. Matos and M. Kiske to offer the position
> to someone who really has a shorter range than me.
> And this *doesn't* mean I'm a good singer (in fact, I admittedly
> suck when I'm singing).
King Diamond has the widest vocal range I know, and that surely does
NOT mean he's the best singer around. (Get my point?)
It's not because he's got a limited vocal range that he's a poor
singer. I won't say I would not prefer Kiske or Matos singing for
Maiden, and I won't say that Blaze is better than Bruce ('cause he
certainly isn't), but he's not such a bad singer as you're trying to
point out.
In fact, (not counting Virtual XI, that I haven't heard yet), The
X-Factor is my favorite Maiden since Seventh Son. There are some songs
where Blaze's vocals really annoy me, but some of them where I really
appreciate them.
Changing the subject...
I heard a lot about Blind Guardian in the jam, and after the Savatage
show a girl I was talking to said how cool they were (talking about
their show here in August, I think), and I was really curious about
them.
I got some .ra's and a .mp3 on the net, and man, I can't say how
disapointed I was... The music is kinda cool, but the vocals...
-- []'s /********************************************\ | Marcelo Vanzin | | vanzin@geocities.com | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ | \********************************************/------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 15:04:37 EDT From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC) Message-ID: <b9057c3a.35311046@aol.com>
pasadena is close to baltimore, for those who don't know, its like 10 mins away.. daytona's is a pretty shitty club, although i did see Fates there and the show was excellent, with the exception that the keyboards went out during APSOG VIII which is my favorite song for keys, i was pissed as hell, i think they just did it on purpose cause the guy didnt know the part on keys =]
anyway, daytons isnt that great a place and it is pretty small, but shit, i'd see dream theater anywhere, and if theyre gonna be at Jaxx i'll be there too!
Rocky
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:12:58 -0600 From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Mike Bahr is a bully. Message-ID: <01bd6647$012735e0$150d84d0@korgx3>
>I urge STRONGLY anyone considering ordering from Prism Records to refrain >from doing so. Many people do get their CDs in a (for Mike Bahr) timely
I agree with you as well. Mike Bahr as a person seems to be really cool, but Mike Bahr as a business man seems to head of somewhere in the other direction. I remember ordering Precious Things a while back. I was No. 83 on a list of 200 or so. I figured it wouldn't take too long after he started sending them out for me to get mine. It took 6 months. (shrug) No big deal it was like getting a free CD by the time I got it.
Of course, I ordered The Darkest of Winters at the same time and was No. 40 on that list. It really starts to piss you off when No.180 on the list starts posting how he got his and how wonderful it is and four months later you still haven't got yours. I emailed Mike about 3 times and never once did I get a response. Finally, after about 9 months, my disc showed up and was unplayable. My computer's CD-ROM drive wouldn't even recognize it and my home stereo would play it, but I might as well have listened to static on the radio. After 9 months of waiting I was in no way going to badger Mike into sending me another one. I just decided to quit doing business with him at all.
Just a reminder people. Ordering CDs from a bootlegger is a huge risk. Some are trustworthy, some are ignorant assholes, and some rock back and forth in between. I may have only been an unfortunate person in the Prism records mailorder empire, because I've seen many posts on here as well praising Mike of quick delivery and great discs.
Maybe I just happened to be sitting on the wrong side of the teeter totter. --KorgX3
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:10:37 EDT From: Greg1680 <Greg1680@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Philly show Message-ID: <bb06b33f.35311fbf@aol.com>
Anyone going to the philadelphia show. email me at Greg1680@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:00:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980412135900.15346A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
And as the YtseJam goes back into reruns, we at WYTSE ask you to keep those remotes right where they are. New shows will be on the way soon.
--Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------- They Might Be Giants: REM with a sense of humor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:10:45 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena (DTC) Message-ID: <35312DD5.5DECD513@imap1.asu.edu>
Kevin Madden warned us all: > You guys must not read my posts, because the club *SUCKS*. I have not > been to a worse club for live music. As for floor space, that's what > you're gonna need at Daytona's, because there isn't any.
Heh heh, you haven't been to the "world famous" Mason Jar, have ya? Just to give you an idea, it'd be roomier for DT to perform in my 10x10ft bedroom (and prolly better acoustics) than the little purple shithole. Fucko, the dude who owns the place only pays $300 A MONTH for the building and utitilites!!! So he's makin' some biiig bucks off that place, especially with acts like Sacred Reich, Tony McAlpine visiting regularly, and national acts like Bruce Dickenson and Fates Warning playing there...I'm SOOOOO glad they're opting for Club Rio!
Anyhoo, that's just the way things are in this great big sandtrap. Back to painting the big ass banner for the show....
~Eckie hates MTV
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:12:15 -0600 From: "Chris C." <chris-76@prodigy.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two) Message-ID: <01bd6660$0d82a040$f3252581@revolution>
>I urge STRONGLY anyone considering ordering from Prism Records to refrain >from doing so. Many people do get their CDs in a (for Mike Bahr) timely >fashion, but if you're not one of those lucky folks, expect some major >problems even getting Mike to acknowledge your existence.
Oh that's great. I was considering ordering "Stream of Consciousness" but if it's going to take a long time then forget it. I like to get my stuff in no more than 2 weeks.
>Order from Scarred Records, Xanadu (Suck My Disc Inc.), or Eric Rodger (KAI) for far >better service, and you'd be supporting people with far more honesty, >integrity, and plain business sense than Mike Bahr and Prism Records could >ever muster.
Can someone send me the URLs for these places? Thanks in advance.
Later,
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:35:30 -0400 From: Brian Larkin <ambicwts@postoffice.ptd.net> To: "Strapping Young Ytse" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: New CD's / Philly anyone??? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980412183530.007273e0@postoffice.ptd.net>
Hey, what's up, 'jammers? Ok, I'll try to make this one short . . .
Picked up 3 albums the other day: 'Tage's "TWoM", Strapping Young Lad's "City", and Amorphis's "Elegy". I'm not disappointed at all. "The Wake of Magellan" is absolutely the best of any Savatage I've heard thus far (I also have the preceding 2 albums). Especially the vocals.
Strapping Young Lad is fucking *sick*!! Kind of a cool, industrial Fear Factory vibe going on there (actually, I almost consider them a FF clone - but DT's voice is 10^10X better than BCB's). Devin Townsend is a fucking monster on this one . . . the only Devin I'd heard before this was on Vai's "Sex and Religion", so I didn't know what to expect. Big difference. Much brutality. I like. :) My early favorite is "429".
Amorphis is good. There's something about them that just seems really weird, though, that I can't put my finger on. My least favorite of the albums I bought, but still good. I like the singer.
REGARDING THE DT SHOW AT THE ELECTRIC FACTORY:
I'm trying to get an early start with getting some people together before and/or after the Dream Theater show at the Electric Factory in Philadelphia on May 9. I'm tentatively planning to take a bus from Allentown down into Philly. How I'm getting to the EF from the bus stop is still unknown. But then, so is when the tickets go on sale, and whether or not I can even get in. (Is the EF all-ages?? PLEASE, P*L*E*A*S*E*, P!L!E!A!S!E! tell me it is. I'm 18. And I don't think I *look* quite 21 yet.)
I've already received some e-mail regarding a pre-show mini-ytsecon, but I'd like to get a list together of 'jammers who will be attending the show, some suggestions as to where we might meet, etc. I'd also like to know if anyone knows when tickets will be going on sale for this show (and about any age restrictions, so maybe we can work on getting me a fake ID ;). Private e-mail is welcome, as always.
'til l8r, Brian ;0)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:19:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980412161833.16908A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Chris C. wrote:
>Oh that's great. I was considering ordering "Stream of Consciousness" but >if it's going to take a long time then forget it. I like to get my stuff in >no more than 2 weeks. >
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hahahahahhahahahahahhahha... ahhhhahaaahahaha... heheh... (wipes tears from eyes)...hohohohehehehahahaha.... hehe hmmm....
Oh God, that was good. Thanks. I needed that.
>Chris > > >
--Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------- They Might Be Giants: REM with a sense of humor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:44:55 +0000 From: "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: bikers for teacher Message-ID: <199804122343.QAA27396@odin.ax.com>
> Hahahahahaha! I told my roommate this (he's a motorcycle freak and a Van > Halen fan too) and he informed me after he stopped laughing that he is > planning to sue for his now-cracked ribs. :) Hehe, yeah, I was hoping no one took me seriously since I didn't include the obligatory smiley face :). I'm into motorcycles pretty well, too. Anyone else? E-mail me and we'll talk bikes.
Dale R. Newberry drnewb@spiff.net
"As miserable as life is, I hold it pretty precious." -Henry Rollins
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3734 **************************
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