YTSEJAM Digest 3735
Today's Topics:
1) Re: DT in Cincy
by "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net>
2) Joey Taffola
by "Daniel Alexandre Bonatti" <dbonatti@sti.com.br>
3) Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
4) re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by AEllis1222 <AEllis1222@aol.com>
5) Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
6) TWoM
by DragynLMC3 <DragynLMC3@aol.com>
7) online purchases
by Chris Daley <cdaley@gmu.edu>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3734
by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
9) Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena Nah,it's JAXX!!!!!!
by KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com>
10) DT / 'Tage wallpaper
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@ameritech.net>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3734
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
12) heh-
by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
13) Blind Guardian
by q9720680@mail.connect.usq.edu.au (Paul Dyer)
14) Bahr?
by someone@prognosis.com
15) Re: Bahr?
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
16) re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by Alan Estrada <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
17) Re: King of Clubs
by Alan Estrada <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
18) re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
19) Re: Bahr?
by someone@prognosis.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:46:43 +0000
From: "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: DT in Cincy
Message-ID: <199804122345.QAA27454@odin.ax.com>
> >> **No St. Louis show as expected (sorry Seth, Pat, & all other area jammers )
> >Dammit dammit, sonuvabitch. Oh well, looks like a road trip to
> >Chicago is in order.
>
> head up to cincy... wouldn't that be closer??
Why not do both? I'd be up for that. And I think Chicago's a bit
closer to St. Louis, but it's not a huge difference. Just in a
different direction. That reminds me. I really need to get back on
the Galactic Cowboys digest.
Dale R. Newberry
drnewb@spiff.net
"As miserable as life is, I hold it pretty
precious." -Henry Rollins
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:33:58 -0300
From: "Daniel Alexandre Bonatti" <dbonatti@sti.com.br>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Joey Taffola
Message-ID: <199804130035.VAA08739@blake.sti.com.br>
Hey
Music experts
Can anyone tell me anything about Joey Taffola? I've just heard one of his
CD's, Infra Blue, and thought it was great!
Thanks
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:40:23 +1000
From: graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
Message-ID: <35315EF7.3A3AD39D@sydney.net>
Chris C. wrote:
> Oh that's great. I was considering ordering "Stream of Consciousness" but
> if it's going to take a long time then forget it. I like to get my stuff in
> no more than 2 weeks.
Don't bother, jammer Nick Bogvich has an excellent FII tour bootleg
available
more details at http://web.mit.edu/bogie/dt/fys.html
Turn around time for this boot was 2 weeks to Australia, pretty good
service
and product and for $25 significantly cheaper than SoC.
> >Order from Scarred Records, Xanadu (Suck My Disc Inc.), or Eric Rodger
> (KAI) for far
> >better service, and you'd be supporting people with far more honesty,
> >integrity, and plain business sense than Mike Bahr and Prism Records could
> >ever muster.
Scarred is at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2236/
Again Ryan offers quick turn around cheap prices and quality product.
graham
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:03:54 EDT
From: AEllis1222 <AEllis1222@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
Message-ID: <ad05ace7.3531647c@aol.com>
I have to agree with you, he is a very poor businessman, but what he is
offering is limited run, very high quality cd's. So I will continue to wait 6
mos. for my cds, because you can't get them elsewhere! I think what Mike
really needs to do is stop making so many new discs, and catch up until there
are no more old orders to be shipped.
Art
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:47:00 -0400
From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
Message-ID: <199804130047.UAA02196@wi.cs.wm.edu>
Ah, yes, the fabled Mike Bahr debate. I wouldn't tell anyone not to purchase
any of Mike's productions, but I will offer a brief list of reasons why I have
chosen not to buy any more. Do with my list what you will. (Just don't flame
it. I know some of you don't want to read it, but others do. So there.)
There was a time when Mike's mission with Prism Records was to get rare
material into the hands of the fans. Stuff that few others had heard, and
fewer still had access to. The result of this was "Subconscious." An
extremely limited edition, which at the time completed a lot of people's
collections. The quality wasn't excellent on a lot of tracks, and there was
some trademark Mike Bahr addenda (like that video game track at the end), but
all in all, we bought a piece of history.
Well, this was such a huge success, and Mike had proven himself trustworthy,
so why not put a couple more projects together? And the next few were great.
I still listen to Acoustic Dreams and WDATU. They sound great and have great
song selection.
Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, Mike lost the vision of Prism Records.
What had started out as a hobby, with the purpose of helping collectors,
turned into a business. Corners were cut, production costs were lowered.
Silver CDs became a way of the past. Virtual Songs doesn't even have a spiffy
label. Just something like "VS Disc 1" written on the CD-R with a black
marker. I wouldn't even mind if the sound quality were better than the
casette copy I have of the Albany show.
Dollar signs started to float around the air. Mike thought of more ways to
make money. He turned from fans-for-fans collections to outright bootlegging.
And not just music. Movies, video games. All for a buck. When he got in
over his head with all these side projects, shipping dates got more and more
backlogged. Mike wrote to us with heroic stories of crimefighting, and sad
tales of selling his bass equipment and breaking up the band. While I
consider Mike a friend and a nice guy, none of this mattered to me. He had my
money, and I didn't have my product.
Prism Records' quality, now, is far inferior to what it once was. There's a
saying in computer science: "Garbage in, garbage out." Put more delicately,
you get out of life what you invest. When Mike invested his love for music,
his appreciation of DT, and his care for us into his CDs, it showed. And now
that he seemingly just wants to turn a profit, it shows. The hobby became a
business; the family, customers; the passion, a product.
I could be wrong about all of this. These are my observations from over 2,000
miles away, and admittedly not having spoken with Mike about any of this. But
one thing is for sure. Ryan Webb, Nick Bogovich, and others are producing
higher-quality stuff for lower prices. Quite possibly because they have more
at stake. Maybe because they have more pride in their craft. Or maybe it's
because it's not a business for them, but a hobby, so they have time to make
sure everything is right. I really don't know. But as nice and friendly as
Mike Bahr the person is, Mike Bahr the businessman has lost my business. What
remains to be seen is what he will do to earn our business back.
-d
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough
cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:08:24 EDT
From: DragynLMC3 <DragynLMC3@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: TWoM
Message-ID: <44109bac.35316589@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-04-12 13:54:02 EDT, you write:
> NP: "Morning Sun" from Savatage's TWoM
>
> - Joe D.
I must say that when i first listened to the cd that this song was the first
that really caught my attention... :} of course when it arrived in the mail
from CDNOW i ran around the house yelling "ITS HERE! YESYESYESYES!" and then
after i had listened a few times I came downstairs to announce "THIS
ROCKS!!!" i think its fairly obvious i like this cd. a lot.
anyway, my $ .02 :}
~Lisa
Dragynlmc3@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dragynlmc3/DragynsLair.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:14:22 -0400
From: Chris Daley <cdaley@gmu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: online purchases
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980412211342.00793c90@mason.gmu.edu>
I must say that waiting over a month to get a CD from some kind of mail
order thing is pretty tedious...over three months is just absurd...I don't
think it's worth it to wait that long for music...even if it was a Dream
Theater bootleg ...maybe Mr. Bahr is making too many cds and he can't keep
up with the demand...who knows...I ordered a video from Prism Records and I
got it within two weeks using a money order...since it was only a $10
purchase I probably wouldn't have minded if it took a few months to get
here...but for those who spend $40+ on something, shouldn't accept
receiving things so late...oh well...maybe it's worth it for them...if
they're serious collectors...i guess the wait is worth it...but i don't
think anybody should wait if they don't have to...
Chris. (that all was one sentence haha)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:33:41 -0400
From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3734
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980412213341.007d5ae0@mindspring.com>
>>Oh that's great. I was considering ordering "Stream of Consciousness" but
>>if it's going to take a long time then forget it. I like to get my stuff in
>>no more than 2 weeks.
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hahahahahhahahahahahhahha... ahhhhahaaahahaha...
>heheh... (wipes tears from eyes)...hohohohehehehahahaha.... hehe hmmm....
Hehe.. I was going to do something like this (tho' maybe without so many
"ha"s), but I couldn't have put it better myself. I don't think I've EVER
heard of someone getting a Bahr CD in under six weeks, much less two. :)
The worst part about this whole deal is that I used to be one of Mike
Bahr's strongest supporters. The early "Bahr Wars" (a couple years ago)
got pretty viscious, but I was heavily on Mike's side. It's a testament to
how bad his business is that I've done this much of a 180. I like to think
I'm a pretty loyal person, but this goes beyond all reason. Take care
all...
__________________________________________________
Adam Pye
alpineone(-at-)mindspring.com ICQ: 9382967
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone/tapelist.html
^ Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:11:24 EDT
From: KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Baltimore? nah, it's Pasadena Nah,it's JAXX!!!!!!
Message-ID: <b84e3e49.3531744e@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-04-12 13:22:33 EDT, Kevin wrote:
<< Secondly, word has it that DT will be playing JAXX around then. >>
The Jaxx website also mentions "Stay tuned for Dream Theater in May!"
Who says it doesn't pay to whine?
D-man, Bafu, Alex(the female), let's GO!!
YES! YES! YES!
Hoping for confirmation soon!
Kez
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:43:38 -0400
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@ameritech.net>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@ax.com>, SAVATAGE LIST <savatage@tkl.com>
Subject: DT / 'Tage wallpaper
Message-ID: <35317BDA.AA102A8F@ameritech.net>
Does anybody know where I can find some DT wallpaper (or Savatage)?
I'm not looking for themes or anything (I don't have MS PLUS), just a
nice wallpaper sized pic.
It can be a cool band photo, or a CD cover art pic...... whatever.
Thanks in advance,
- Joe D.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3734
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980412193638.15008A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Adam wrote:
>
>>>Oh that's great. I was considering ordering "Stream of Consciousness" but
>>>if it's going to take a long time then forget it. I like to get my stuff in
>>>no more than 2 weeks.
>>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hahahahahhahahahahahhahha... ahhhhahaaahahaha...
>>heheh... (wipes tears from eyes)...hohohohehehehahahaha.... hehe hmmm....
>
>Hehe.. I was going to do something like this (tho' maybe without so many
>"ha"s), but I couldn't have put it better myself. I don't think I've EVER
>heard of someone getting a Bahr CD in under six weeks, much less two. :)
>
4-6 weeks. When I ordered CDs from Music Boulevard, I got then after 20
days to get it from backstock in Germany, and another 7-10 days en route.
Okay, 27-30 days for DT's Silent Man single.
My opinion is this: Mike made major mistakes in 1997. MAJOR mistakes.
He moved faster than he thought he could, ran before he could crawl, etc.
Now, he's paying for it. He knows this. I know this. You know this. We
all know this. Enough of this.
Now, how many complaints have you heard about SoC? Any of the new 'Ryche
or Rush releases? Anything in 1998?
I *just* got my copy of Mosaic. I'm playing it now. CD-R? Yep. But,
then again, how many plant would say "Sure" to a guy and his bootlegs?
Exactly one fewer than the one that was in his area. Okay, so now they're
CD-R's. Painted labels though. Like that. Wish the res was higher, but
then, speed would be comprimised. Speed... that's what we all want,
right?
here's the formula:
1) Quickly
2) Cheaply
3) Beautifully
When making something, you can have two of the three, but not all three.
This is not Italy circa 1993.
(I'm sorry, I'm attempting to answer everybody's complaints here --
explanations and such).
No labels? They gum up car CD players, and 6-CD cartridge changers. So,
no labels, for everybody's safety. And, to get it out as quickly as he
can, he doesn't do it "your way right away" like some burger places, but
rather plays it safe. Cool. I can handle.
>The worst part about this whole deal is that I used to be one of Mike
>Bahr's strongest supporters. The early "Bahr Wars" (a couple years ago)
>got pretty viscious, but I was heavily on Mike's side. It's a testament to
>how bad his business is that I've done this much of a 180. I like to think
>I'm a pretty loyal person, but this goes beyond all reason. Take care
>all...
And that's you. I've never waited less than 4 weeks for a Bahr boot, but
I haven't been disappointed. I guess I just have a higher tolerance for
pain (grin!)
>
>__________________________________________________
>Adam Pye
>alpineone(-at-)mindspring.com ICQ: 9382967
>http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone/tapelist.html
>^ Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists
>__________________________________________________
>
--Matt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
They Might Be Giants: REM with a sense of humor.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:54:35 EDT
From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: heh-
Message-ID: <f8f1bf43.35318c7c@aol.com>
all this talk of mike bahr's knack of not delivering goods in a timely manner
has me sweating here....
i finally got my precious things cd after 18 months....
law of averages?
************************************************************************
david y. kobayashi
new york law school
thrak75@aol.com
"better to save the mystery than surrender to the secret." -j. petrucci
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:09:08 -0700
From: q9720680@mail.connect.usq.edu.au (Paul Dyer)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Blind Guardian
Message-ID: <35327EF4.15C5@mail.connect.usq.edu.au>
>>Changing the subject...
>> I heard a lot about Blind Guardian in the jam, and after the >>Savatage
>>show a girl I was talking to said how cool they were (talking about
>>their show here in August, I think), and I was really curious about
>>them.
>> I got some .ra's and a .mp3 on the net, and man, I can't say >>how
>>disapointed I was... The music is kinda cool, but the vocals...
Blind Guardian is power metal with balls....
Hansi Kursch (he's the singer...I think....is that spelt right?!) may
not be an operatic singer but he is a great power metal singer...the
music is quite heavy and his voice has a nice edge to it....makes it
sound real...if you know what I mean...he makes the difference between
Blind Guardian and other Power Metal bands all that more obvious.....
I think he rocks!!!...as do they.......
Cheers
Paul D.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:34:04 +0000
From: someone@prognosis.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Bahr?
Message-ID: <199804130430.XAA22275@wheat.farm.niu.edu>
Wow.
I'm surprised, with all of that, that no one has noticed that he's
doing copies of the music from commercial releases now too. He's a
decent person... but I'm gonna say it again, because it's relevent
right now: His prices are very high (and you'd expect to get
something special in sound and in ease of doing business), he doesn't
really give a RAT'S ASS about his customers (if he did--and he'll
probably go off on me about this--he'd have found some way to rectify
a serious business problem that's been a hot topic and been pressed
on him for well over a year, and he'd CERTAINLY flag some important
issues like year+ past due cds as priorities), and he's not truthful.
He wants your money. He'll get around to everything else.
Chris Ptacek
someone@prognosis.com
http://www.prognosis.com/madsman
Go Home and Practice!
"The Dude Abides."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: someone@prognosis.com
Subject: Re: Bahr?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980412215351.15008B-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
It's sad. It's all sad.
I'm contributing in the rertuns... ugh.
Forgive me.
We now return you to more crap you really don't care about.
Ptacek and co. vs. Bahr. Round 10.
(Sorry, Chris -- you have name recognition. It's business)
--Matt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
They Might Be Giants: REM with a sense of humor.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:06:58 -0500
From: Alan Estrada <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980413000658.007d52a0@academ07.mty.itesm.mx>
si it seems that Im not the only bad trader (=
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 00:17:55 -0500
From: Alan Estrada <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: King of Clubs
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980413001755.007c5d80@academ07.mty.itesm.mx>
I have the japanesse version and the album kicks ass, i dont know why but
my least favorite tune is "the jam", the song where paul plays with the
other racer x member....I mean, they can play, but this song sounds
improvised to me (maybe it is) and is 20 minutes of nonsense shredding, the
rest of the album rocks, reminds me to Nuno bettencourt's Schizophonic but
more 60's based and with more guitar solos.
At 07:24 AM 10/04/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>>King of Clubs--Paul Gilbert April 21
>>
>>what does this means? is Paul touring or releasing his album on the US? I
>>have the JAP copy, it only has one more song. the album is not guitar
>>oriented but has good song on it.
>>
>
>
> Of what I understand, this is the U.S release date for 'King of Clubs'
>that Paul told me a couple weeks ago.
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 02:45:03 -0300 (EST)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: re: Prism Records / Mike Bahr (Take Two)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980413024011.13901A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Alan Estrada wrote:
> si it seems that Im not the only bad trader (=
So, are you actually proud of being a bad trader? Hey, c'mon, man
wouldn't you like to have a clean name instead of being known as "Alan
'The Bad Trader' Estrada"??
Not intended as a flame, just as a hint that it's not a good thing
to be a bad trader (IMO, IMO, nothing else than IMO).
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 01:07:55 +0000 From: someone@prognosis.com To: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>, Subject: Re: Bahr? Message-ID: <199804130604.BAA23683@wheat.farm.niu.edu>
> It's sad. It's all sad. > I'm contributing in the rertuns... ugh. > Forgive me. > > We now return you to more crap you really don't care about. > Ptacek and co. vs. Bahr. Round 10. > (Sorry, Chris -- you have name recognition. It's business)
I don't know what point you're trying to make. What I said, I had a reason to say. You need to grow up and realize this isn't just Me vs. Bahr. You trivializing this scam is tantamount to you ripping off the people Bahr is ripping off. I'm sure Adam likes having his legitimate complaint blown off because "Ptacek" said something. Instead of being a sycophant, I prefer to stand for what I believe in. I'd love to investigate this further, to really see if you have any reason for posting other than to see your own name on the jam, but I'll let your post speak for itself.
- The Kinder, Gentler Mads
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3735 **************************
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