YTSEJAM Digest 3740
Today's Topics:
1) A conclusion to this thread.
by Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
2) More Mike Bahr Madness
by Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
3) Re: More Mike Bahr Madness
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
4) european shows
by "jason braswell" <funkbreath@hotmail.com>
5) Re: la femme DT-ers
by DragynLMC3 <DragynLMC3@aol.com>
6) The billionth LTE review
by "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com>
7) i was all excited.........
by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
8) Re: LTE/Supergroups!!!
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
9) Hansi
by "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3738
by "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
11) Review of Symphony X's "Twlight..."
by "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
12) Re: la femme DT-ers
by Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net>
13) Mike Bahr
by Lars Hellsten <lhellste@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
14) Bruford, motrocycles, whiny bastards, obligatory Bahr content,
by "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:57:52 -0700
From: Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: A conclusion to this thread.
Message-ID: <35328A60.21AC@goodnet.com>
OK, fair enough.
I spent most of last year doing what my friends and family told me I
shouldn't do: reviving Prism Records.
So now I'm going to do what nobody on the Jam probably expects: I'm
going to make Prism better than it was in the early days. And I will not
open orders on a single new title until I am caught up on all orders.
Not a single one. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. If you want to order the
currently available stuff, that's fine, because that doesn't cause
backlog problems. (in fact even new titles haven't been a problem
lately, it's all been the gradual correction of the PT/DW/VS/E2E problem
that caused all this delay!)
The big mistake, truly, was Virtual Songs. I don't know what in the
hell gave me the idea that I could pull off a triple disc release. The
logistics of it are just insane. No more triples of Rush or DT. The
Queenryche triple, which may or may not ever open for orders, is
low-volume enough not to hurt any.
By contrast, double-discs are fairly easy to do. (just trust me on this
one, it has to do with the facilities at my disposal). Catching up E2E
and Stream won't take long and it won't be all that tough. And I will
settle all overdue accounts to the best of my ability.
I won't be changing the price structure until all the other pieces are
put together, because I refuse to cut any corners. People who say these
things could be made more cheaply haven't seen my more recent output.
Metallic inks on some liners, full-color disc art with no label
required, Gold Editions with improved sound quality, revised and updated
tracklistings, it's all attempts to correct the mistakes of the past by
putting out the absolute best CD possible. And if you've already waited
X months, you're probably thinking, "This better be Good, dammit!" and I
ain't about to screw that up.
As for cashing checks upon delivery, I may somehow be able to do that
for money orders, but personal checks are cashed right away because of
the clear factor. My regulars never bounce checks off me, it's some of
the newcomers who do. I'll look into this and do the best possible
compromise of a solution.
So the conclusion to this firefight: everybody wins. Or at least they
WILL. Without further ado, I'll get back to work now.
-- - Mike Bahr - Prism Records - d u r n i k @ g o o d n e t . c o m - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:16:15 EDT From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: More Mike Bahr Madness Message-ID: <964fc84b.35328eb3@aol.com>
> From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3734 > > My opinion is this: Mike made major mistakes in 1997. MAJOR mistakes. > He moved faster than he thought he could, ran before he could crawl, etc.
Plus that "coming out" episode didn't do his business any good.
> Now, he's paying for it. He knows this. I know this. You know this. We > all know this. Enough of this.
As if there could EVER be enough discussion about Mike Bahr. > here's the formula: > 1) Quickly > 2) Cheaply > 3) Beautifully > > When making something, you can have two of the three, but not all three. > This is not Italy circa 1993.
Yeah! In Italy circa 1993 they were pumping out runway models like there was no tomorrow! Ahh, those were the days... Now we have all these naturally-born models like Milla Jovovich mucking up the glory and whatnot! MOOLTI-PASS!
---- > From: someone@prognosis.com > Subject: Bahr?
At last, the shimmery figure of Genghis Ptacek is seen riding up over the horizon, Golden Horde not far behind...
> His prices are very high (and you'd expect to get > something special in sound and in ease of doing business), he doesn't > really give a RAT'S ASS about his customers (if he did--and he'll > probably go off on me about this--he'd have found some way to rectify > a serious business problem that's been a hot topic and been pressed > on him for well over a year, and he'd CERTAINLY flag some important > issues like year+ past due cds as priorities), and he's not truthful.
If they ever do a sequel to "Labyrinth," Mike Bahr and Chris Ptacek could play the role of that two-headed playing card. The one where one head always tells the truth, and the other always lies, and they accuse each other of lying while claiming they each tell the truth, and your job through their incessant arguing is to figure out which one is which so you can get your damn cd without waiting a year and a half...
Well okay, there were no cds in "Labyrinth," so what...
> He wants your money. He'll get around to everything else.
Like... my placenta? Are you saying Mike Bahr is the Placenta Fairy?
Bafu Vai
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:32:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: More Mike Bahr Madness Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980413153057.11652A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Uroborosss wrote:
> >> From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu >> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3734 >> >> My opinion is this: Mike made major mistakes in 1997. MAJOR mistakes. >> He moved faster than he thought he could, ran before he could crawl, etc. > >Plus that "coming out" episode didn't do his business any good.
True, true.
> >> Now, he's paying for it. He knows this. I know this. You know this. We >> all know this. Enough of this. > >As if there could EVER be enough discussion about Mike Bahr. >
Ach. Got me again. That's why I'm collecting these posts and putting them out as a compilation. Some of you won't need it, because you've already said you've got the posts, but, hey!
>> here's the formula: >> 1) Quickly >> 2) Cheaply >> 3) Beautifully >> >> When making something, you can have two of the three, but not all three. >> This is not Italy circa 1993. > >Yeah! In Italy circa 1993 they were pumping out runway models like there was >no tomorrow! Ahh, those were the days... Now we have all these naturally-born >models like Milla Jovovich mucking up the glory and whatnot! MOOLTI-PASS! >
(drool...) Bafu... I've never respected you more than *right now*.
--Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------- They Might Be Giants: REM with a sense of humor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:46:44 PDT From: "jason braswell" <funkbreath@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: european shows Message-ID: <19980413224645.13809.qmail@hotmail.com>
I happen to be doing a study abroad this summer, and it so happens that I will be right where I need to be to see DT in London and then in Paris two days later. Should kick ass. My question is do I get tickets for intern'l shows from ticketmaster also, or do I have to buy them over there somewhere? -jason
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:50:32 EDT From: DragynLMC3 <DragynLMC3@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: la femme DT-ers Message-ID: <b107fd15.353296ba@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-04-13 11:13:39 EDT, you write:
> Just wondering, spontaneously, are there many ladies who join this > jammers?
We are a serious minority on here... unless the rest are simply lurking... but from what i've seen there are only a handful of us on here...
~Lisa DragynLMC3@aol.com http://members.aol.com/dragynlmc3/DragynsLair.html
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:53:20 PDT From: "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The billionth LTE review Message-ID: <19980413225320.1617.qmail@hotmail.com>
Just got LTE in the mail today....listening to it for the first time right now, as a matter of fact (in the beginning of Three Minute Warning). Wow =) It's cool. I imagine it's what DT would sound like with Kevmo pushed way up in the mix and without any vox. MP's set sounds similar to his FII sound, but it's a little crisper, with more definition, than the infamous "pringle can" approach on FII. Rudess is simply amazing--some of those patches are very unique. JP is his usual self, lots of scales and really fast stuff ;) Levin's sound is unmistakable...he sounds like nobody else out there. I thought TLev's playing on BLS was a bit too restrained--Stevens and Bozzio went apeshit on that album, and TL was much more reserved. IMHO, his playing on LTE is more up front and looser, but perhaps not quite enough. It was a minor criticism of BLS and an even more minor (?--is that an oxymoron?) criticism of LTE. I think the fact that they included a 29-minute free form jam is awesome--I've been waiting to hear DT do stuff like this forever. (Levin's gotta be used to living on the edge like that from hanging around Fripp and Bruford so much ;) .) I'll suspend judgment until I really absorb the album, but it seems to me after one listen that the improvisation on this album was less a collective thing than a solo and accompaniment style, albeit a very loose one...sometimes it's hard to tell who's soloing and who's comping, but it usually has that feel of solo/comp instead of the really edgy, unstructured feel of collective improv. I guess I may have gone in with expectations, knowing that it was not discussed by the band beforehand, and that TLev was on it, who's done so much of that style of improv with KC.
Whatever. Insert nipple disclaimer here. IMHO, it's still a good fuckin' album, regardless.
P.S. No DT in STL? Dammit....I leave for a weekend and look what happens. *lol* C'est la vie, eh?
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:56:12 EDT From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: i was all excited......... Message-ID: <9e6a055b.3532980d@aol.com>
....to concoct an absurdly post on my thoughts of this bahr debate, but it seems like most of you penis-heads have taken care of that for me. thanks a fucking lot.
it seems to be my impression (or at least my own intention) that the majority of us don't think of mr. bahr as a cannibalistic member of the pol pot regime. various people have clearly stated that he is a generally good person.
however, the basic gist of most people's complaints is that there has been an insane wait for products being sent, etc., etc. i am aware that there are other complaints about bahr's business practices (i.e., quality of recordings or media, etc.), but i'm not interested in those issues now.
granted, there are people who don't care about how long it takes to get a mike bahr. fine- they can wait as long as they please. if it's a hosrt time, good for them. but as the evidence suggests, how long it takes to get what's been ordered DOES matter to enough people here- enough people so that these complaints have been hitting the surface. from a logical standpoint, it just seems like the best thing for mike to do is to just fix what's been going on. all this talk about stopping current orders, etc.....whatever- if you can haul ass and get the back log taken care AND manage to keep the current flow going, more power to you. the basic point is that the system needs repair.
THIS needed addressing:
> Ah well. What say ye all? If you tell me to pack up my bags and go away, I'll do it. It's >your call. If I'm not welcome here anymore, I will leave. Enough of this. It would be the >height of irony that I leave NOW, just as things are beginning to go right for a change, but I >will accept the plurality decision on the matter.
you weren't seriously leaving your right to remain a member of the ytsejam to the fate of a bunch of biased, pissed off, or apathetic people, were you? you should be here on your own terms, or NOT here for likewise reasons. this really did sound a little like, "i don't like what i'm hearing about me, so i'm going home and won't come out anymore." you'll make enemies, but people will always be around to stick up for you. that's what makes this fun sometimes.
enough. better people can express this better than i can. onto other things.
the question of whether i can ever be happy/satisfied with the way i've played? i used to really care about this, and i was preoccupied with whether i played well enough or whatever. but after a while, that's all i started thinking about.
my response to the matter is...."does it matter that much?" this doesn't mean that i don't care about how it comes out in the long run, but if i fucked up, or someone else in the band for that matter, oh well.....that's why there's usually "the next gig". always good to just pick your ass up from the floor and put it behind you.
with that said, i'm playing a guitar piece at my friend's nyu senior recital this weekend, and hope i don't fuck up too bad. ;-)
this had me laughing, in a sick sort of way:
"Just remember before you get on a list that many (or most) of the people that post to her lists and newsgroups are teenage girls with real problems who think that Tori is some sort of God with a capital G. These sickos were pissed when she got married because, God forbid, Tori was actually happy. Oh no! No more tortured pathos in the lyrics....weird people."
a) not all of these posters are teenage girls with real problems. some of them are males, many of them are post-adolescents. b) not all of these people have "real problems". speaking for myself, i don't think i have any major problems. granted, my sense of humor is a little more obscure than others, but i'm not addicted to prozac, crack, sex (at least not to dangerous levels), etc. believe it or not, a lot of these people bring up intriguing musical/lyrical issues regarding her music, not unlike what could be expected here. it's not quite the soap opera you feared. c) actually, the majority of people (it seemed to me, anyway) were quite happy to hear that tori got married. only a few people had some beefs, and those were based on prior comments tori made regarding christian weddings, etc.
and whoever it was that was asking, if they're still interested: To SUBSCRIBE: Send mail to <rdtrn-request@torithoughts.org>
with either "subscribe thoughts" in the body of the message.
peace out. koba, wild. ************************************************************************ david y. kobayashi new york law school thrak75@aol.com
"i bring truth and understanding. i bring wit and wisdom fair- precious gifts beyond compare." -n. peart ************************************************************************
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:01:06 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: "Harm's Way" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: LTE/Supergroups!!! Message-ID: <35329932.4487@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
> And I could be totally wrong here, but it seems to me that it [LTE] > was meant to be a one time thing. But I suppose anything is a > possibility...?
Well, it seemed to be an 'Experiment'. As we all know, to truly prove something works, it must repeatable :)
> I think it would be cool if they did, but I wouldn't count on it > happening (at least with the exact same lineup).
You're right, there needs to be more sound. heheheheheheh
Add Emerson on Keys, Sheehan on Bass, Morgenstein on Drums, Nuno on Guitar. Two of each :)
Call it: Hard 8, toss a pair of dice on the cover, with their faces in place of the dots.
JP -- *------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:06:36 -0400 From: "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Hansi Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980413190635.0073b440@maila.wm.edu>
>>Blind Guardian is power metal with balls....
Agreed!!!
>>Hansi Kursch (he's the singer...I think....is that spelt right?!) may not be an operatic singer but he is a great power metal singer...the music is quite heavy and his voice has a nice edge to it....makes it sound real...if you know what I mean...he makes the difference between Blind Guardian and other Power Metal bands all that more obvious.....
I think he rocks!!!...as do they.....>>
Agreed! again.
I think he's very good, myself. It fits with the music, he's not off, or just screaming into oblivion, and like I said before, the harmonies KICK ASS. The combination of hard, heavy sound with some awesome melodies couldn't have a better effect. (IMO :) I love that stuff.
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:27:07 -0700 From: "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3738 Message-ID: <01bd6733$ad188420$778c15cf@markphil>
This is valid:
>POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS OF PRISM RECORDS: Mike Bahr once created, and may again >be creating (cause I'm not sure) awesome collections of rare material from >some of your favorite bands. He has also once had, and may still have (again, >I'm not sure), *and* may again have in the future, absurdly long waiting times >on orders. Caveat emptor.
But I'm sure people can do and say this without all out bashing Mike. There are some people (like me) and are extremely patient. It makes the CD's when they arrive, all that much better. But lets not bash him or his business. Its just a fact of life, and I have every confidance in Mike that he will improve his business.
Mark
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:33:13 -0700 From: "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Review of Symphony X's "Twlight..." Message-ID: <01bd6734$86c59d20$778c15cf@markphil>
EXCELLENT CD!
If you liked DWoT, then you'll love this. Romeo is again at his best, with some kick ass rythems and solos.
There are definately some threads of classical throughout like their previous cd's, and they have a "metal/classical" version of a Beetovan (fuck I can't spell) Sonata.
Church of the Machine and Through the Looking Glass are my favorites, but they all kick ass. CotM has an awsome vocal chorus! Arg its hard to describe in words. It is DEFINATELY worth the $ especially since the price has dropped. (You get some extra goodies along with the CD.)
Has anyone listened to Stratovarius's new album? Can they give me a review and where they got it?
Mark griphiam@ccnet.com
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:37:16 -0700 From: Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: la femme DT-ers Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980413163711.006c22f0@postoffice.pacbell.net>
At 04:23 PM 4/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >We are a serious minority on here... unless the rest are simply lurking... >but from what i've seen there are only a handful of us on here...
I suspect there are more than a handful of us here... I can think of at least 20 YtseWomen that I know of personally, and I'm sure there are probably a great number of lurkers. This question comes up every once in a while, and a few of us pop out of lurk mode :o)
Spock's Beard TOMORROW!!!
:o)))
Lisa Marie
np: Beware of Darkness
".`^~,^. __ _ '._',_.; Lisa Marie \ \ ___ ___ ___(_) ___ ( \/ ) jessie@dreamt.org \ \/ _ \/ __/ __| |/ _ \ \ / ICQ UIN#1518578 /\_/ / __/\__ \__ \ | __/ \/ \___/ \___||___/___/_|\___| http://www.dreamt.org/jessie _____________________________________________________ THOUGHTS - The Spock's Beard Mailing List Homepage http://www.dreamt.org/spocksbeard/
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:37:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Lars Hellsten <lhellste@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mike Bahr Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.980413183431.7038A-100000@hypatia.math.uwaterloo.ca>
First of all, I should start off by admitting I haven't done business with Prism Records since the start of his operation, and Bahr has never ripped me off personally. However, I think my opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, if not moreso, since I'm not biased on the basis of my own experiences.
I stopped doing business with Bahr pretty quickly after he started, once it became apparant his operation was becoming more than a simple hobby, and in particular, when he got involved in that Equinox crap. I don't get ripped off very often, usually because I'm not quick to trust people. Especially over the Internet. There are enough people out there who have the balls to rip you off face-to-face - ripping people off over the net is a lot easier, as it doesn't require any balls whatsoever.
Anyway, it's good that more and more people are starting to realize what some of us have for a while, but I'm surprised that some people are still falling for the standard Bahr defenses. This is the same shit we heard the last time ... and the time before that ... and the time before that.
Sure *most* customers will *eventually* get what they paid for. But he's still ripping a LOT of people off. At the worst, he's a thief, and a fraud. At the very best, he's a scam artist who's taking advantage of customers to essentially get himself free loans. Regardless, he shouldn't be trusted.
The argument that we should "give the guy a break" because he's making available material that's hard to find is pure selfishness. Maybe YOU haven't been ripped off, but there's NO excuse for the way he's handled many of his customers. If he can't give every customer the attention they deserve, then he should simply return their money immediately, or at least let them know there'll be a delay and give them that option.
I wouldn't have commented on this at all, except having heard him regurgitate the same nonsense he did the last time in his defense makes me sick. It's the exact same material professional scam artists and the like use. Bahr uses the exact same tactics. The old "I'm going out of my way to do this" stuff. The "I could just pack it in right now, but I'm not going to let a few detractors stop all the good I'm doing". The "I sold everything I own to start this business". Or the "1997 was the worst year of my life, but 1998 is going to be so good it'll make up for it" (like anyone who waited 6 months in 1997 is going to order again in 1998). It's the same old bullshit. He still hasn't offered a reasonable explanation for the way things have been handled.
To put my point simply, how many successfull con artists have you ever ran across that DON'T come across as genuine, nice guys?
** Lars Hellsten (lhellste@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca) **
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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:00:01 PDT From: "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Bruford, motrocycles, whiny bastards, obligatory Bahr content, Message-ID: <19980414000003.4625.qmail@hotmail.com>
Re Bruford.... >There's something about his staccato that just gets to me after a >while. I can only take so much of it. Very tight drummer, don't get >me wrong.Scary chops! (snip) > But, Bill, dewd, buddy: open that high hat now and then, guy :) >Guess it's just a personal preference thing for me, but I've always >enjoyed Alan White's style more. I just happen to prefer the >different styles he uses. I'd still pay to see either though :)
Yeah, he does have a very tight, exact style....he doesn't fudge anything, everything goes *exactly* where he wants it to. Problem is it makes his mistakes very obvious, but he doesn't make that many mistakes, ya know? And the hihat thing....you gotta remember he's a jazz guy. I read somewhere that he said "I heard Tony Williams doing Buddy Rich with Miles, so I wanted to do Max Roach with Fripp." Or something like that. Point is, he began as a jazz drummer before he hooked up with these uberhippies known as Howe-Squire-Anderson...heh heh.
>As far as outplaying anyone, I ain't goin' there :) They all outplay >my nadz, ok? :)
Amen.
>>That's not really a drummer on Hot For Teacher. What they did is >>sample a Harley Davidson idling at 1500rpm. > >i gotta stop reading the jam while i'm drinking coffee. >i almost choked to death while laughing. ;-)
No kidding. I'd never heard that was overdubbed, but it makes sense to me now *lol* I always figured it was triggers or some funky pedal with multiple beaters on it...ya know, with one delayed a fraction of a second...man, I can NOT imagine MP doing Hot For Teacher. Wowie. =)
>Hm.. i dunno where the fuck do you get off asking MP for an >explanation....you should feel lucky even if the band has been there >once in their whole careers..
I wholeheartedly agree. Yeah, I'm disappointed that DT isn't coming to St. Louis...but that doesn't give me the right to beg MP for a show anyway. As if that's all the five human beings that make up Dream Theater do with their lives, is play for you. Jesus Christ, that attitude is so selfish--and a LOT of people have voiced similar complaints ("why won't DT ever come play MY city?", blah blah blah). Grow the hell up already. I don't claim to know exactly how all these mechanisms work, but DT does NOT decide their own schedule, in all likelihood. Probably what happens is their management works out deals with the clubs themselves and then hands the schedule to the band, not the other way around. Sometimes shit just gets crossed up--something's already going on at the club, or whatever--and they hafta cancel. Shit happens. Go on with your goddamn life already. </flame>
Re the Bahr Wars...all I can say is I'm glad I never ordered anything from the man, if only because it means I get to skip through just about 99% of the jam content whenever this happens.
>all, i'd say stick around. i enjoy seeing a new batch of people >every few months or so getting steamed with your laughable >service--it's like the ytse-soap opera. *lol* Well put.
More LTE? Please...especially if resembles Three Minute Warning and not State of Grace *lol*
Skadz, how about you create a whole new mailing list for the Bahr Wars? (bahrjam@ax.com...has a nice ring to it) That way the people who don't have anything to do with it can continue to not talk about DT on the YtseJam....;)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3740 **************************
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