YTSEJAM Digest 3822
Today's Topics:
1) Re: guitarists
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
2) Re: Take Away My Guitar
by "John E. Martin" <jem@lainet.com>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3821
by James Kapherr <jamesk@beertje.prestel.co.uk>
4) Kirk
by Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
5) Steve Vai & Co.
by Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
6) Re: Kurt Hamlet
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
7) New Swedish Radio Show!
by Mats "Rydstr?m" <rydstrom@rocketmail.com>
8) Enough guitar. What about bass?
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
9) Re: You Not Me vs. You Or Me
by MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
10) Re: Steve Vai & Co.
by James Bako <jbako@erols.com>
11) Re: Kurt Hamlet
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
12) More Guitar, Zappa
by "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
13) --==[ N U N O ]==--
by Pat Griffin <s1029516@admiral.umsl.edu>
14) Music Boulevard - $15 off, TODAY ONLY.
by "Syrinx" <syrinx@mindspring.com>
15) Re: --==[ N U N O ]==--
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
16) Texas Jammers -- Help Me
by Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:25:51 EDT
From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: guitarists
Message-ID: <1bb6817e.3548de50@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-04-30 15:17:37 EDT, you write:
<< What does anybody think of Kerry
King and Jeff Hanneman from Slayer? >>
Kerry King Sucks shit on lead guitar, he should stick to rhythm.
the other guy used to suck, but atleast when SITA came out he decided to learn
a scale and play a solo in key.
playing fast means ABSOLUTELY nothing when you don't have ANY idea what you
are playing at all, like playing a fast run in Eb when the key is Eminor, and
thats what all slayer guitar solos prior to SITA were.
Rocky
p.s. don't even think of flaming me for this, especially if you are a drummer.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:39:42 -0700
From: "John E. Martin" <jem@lainet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Take Away My Guitar
Message-ID: <199804302040.UAA08242@lainet1.lainet.com>
The Doc wrote:
>The thing about the demo TAMP is that the guitar texturing just kicks
>ass... and they just totally got rid of it on the album version, it's a
>shame!!
>-The Doc
I agree... The demo version of this song has so much drive and feeling in
it, I lost hope in it on the studio version. The guitar was strong, the
vocals were strong... And then they scratch it and go with a weaker guitar
and vocals that sound so pre-rehearsed they lose the feeling...
-sp00l
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:44:13 +0100
From: James Kapherr <jamesk@beertje.prestel.co.uk>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3821
Message-ID: <E0yV0B9-00026q-00@hen.scotland.net>
<html>
<font size=3>GET ME OFF THIS LIST<br>
<br>
I HAVE EMAILED YOU 3 TIMES, AND STILL I GET EMAILS. PLEASE REMOVE
ME.<br>
<br>
Thanks :)<br>
<br>
James<br>
</font>
<BR>
</html>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:02:23 -0700
From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Kirk
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980430140223.008978d0@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
>From: Chris Bowsman <cbowsma@pop3.utoledo.edu>
>
>>The definitive two words: Kirk Hammet.
>>BWAHAHA ; )
>>Jon
>
>What the fuck is up with dissing Kirk? By all of your reasonings,
>because he plays tastefully, he sucks. That really doesn't make any
>sense.
Im sorry, I dont quite follow you. If I am dissing anything, it would
probably be the thread. Just in case you missed it, the thread was on FAST
players, nothing else. The players mentioned (Stump, Angelo) are really
fast and REALLY clean, for the most part. Hammet plays fast (still much
slower than those other guys), but he plays a sloppy fast, and covers it up
with wah, whereas when players like Petrucci lay on the gas, you can hear
distinctly what they are doing.
But that isnt what this is about. I never said that I didnt like Hammet's
playing. I love Metallica. I have all their albums (yes, even reload : )
Nowhere in my message did I say that hammet sucked. I dont know where you
thought I was saying that, and I am not sure I ever will.
And when graham responded, he expressed frustration that the THREAD was
being continued, not that he thought I had been crapping on Kirk.
>"Oh, no! Kirk Hammett doesn't play as fast as John Petrucci! His
>band isn't prog! What a bunch of assholes!"
Did I say that? Didnt think so. Not sure who you are quoting here, but it
aint me.
>I don't really get whats so funny about saying a guy who obviously doesn't
play as fast as >many others sucks.
Im not laughing at Kirk sucking, because he doesnt. I like what he plays
(most of the time). I sarcastically said that Kirk Hammet played as fast
as Angelo. That isnt true. Thus the "; )".
Back in the day, Metallica was the shit. I loved them, and still do. Nuf
said.
I suggest you read more carefully, you are inferring way more than I was
actually saying.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:21:54 EDT
From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Steve Vai & Co.
Message-ID: <7064c2da.3548eb73@aol.com>
> From: Christopher A Milne <cmilne@wam.umd.edu>
> Subject: re: petrucci
>
> I don't know what you're talking about. I think Petrucci's feel seperates
> him from 90% of all the instrumental guitarists out there.
Until I heard the improvisational soloing on "Trial of Tears," I couldn't
discern any solidified "style" in Petrucci's playing. If you think "Under A
Glass Moon" features a solo with serious, unique "style," we have much
disagreeing to look forward to. Petrucci is fantastic, and I'm wondering when
he's going to start repeating himself like so many guitarists do instead of
improving and improving and improving, but I think he's just now "jelling" as
a player and getting a recognizeable sound and style of play.
> And as for Satriani, i've been listening to instrumental guitar music for at
least
> 10 years and he has been the one i've liked the least. Every few years I
> try and listen to him again thinking it will be better, but no I think he
> sounds like he should be playing commercials.
Hahaha I have to agree, he really does go for those surfing songs... Joe
Satriani is, in my opinion, a great example of an "undefinable" musician
starting off his career making weird noises and playing a lot of cool
techniques...and being mislabeled as a "virtuoso." Ambiguity doesn't equal
virtuosity. "Innovation" would be a better term, but just because something is
"unrecognizeable" doesn't make it applicable to several different styles of
expression and "virtuosic." Satch has buckets of ideas, but they don't cover
many musical styles outside of, well, outside of Silver Surfer guitar. ;)
"Surfing With The Alien" was the album that sparked my interest in the guitar
and heavily influenced my playing, but yeah...Satch is very blues-pentatonic,
you have to be heavily into music (and GUITAR) for any of his melodic sense
(pitch-axis!) to appeal to your ears (at list IMHAO). The weird noises were
what caught my ear, and after all these years that stuff is still the bulk of
what appeals to me about Satch. Musically I still can't get into his chord
progressions...
> Vai's a hell of a player, but I never got into his solo albums much either.
Understandable.
> The coolest thing Vai ever did was his solo from Crossroads.
The Jerky Boys said it best when they said "Open ya fuckin' ears, jackass!"
Define "cool." And try not to make your definition sound like the words "neo"
and "classical."
> And as far as Masters go...before people get to hung up on how great people
like
> Vai and Satriani are don't forget there are people like DiMeola, Lucia,
Remero, and
> countless classical players that could play circles around these guys.
So classical players can play circles around these guys? In what sense? By
alternate picking really fast? With sweep arpeggios? With the fact that their
music sounds like, I don't know, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart? Here's what your
assertion looked like to my eyes: "The Green Bay Packers, Dallas Cowboys, and
Chicago Bears could play circles around those Phoenix Suns and Boston
Celtics." They're all sports teams, just like all those guys you mentioned are
all guitarists. But if you want to slam Steve Vai because he can't do Al
DiMeola as well as Al DiMeola can, you'd better be prepared to argue like
hell.
For that matter, anyone who uses words like "Masters" while talking about
things like music (or anything that isn't "of the Universe") is treading on
thin fuckin' ice. Bests? Ha. Favorites.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:30:07 EDT
From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Kurt Hamlet
Message-ID: <600fd59f.3548ed60@aol.com>
personally, i used to love kirk's playing, he made me want to play guitar,
(steve vai made me want to learn though), kirk's new "style" if you can
actually call it his style, while it does seem to have feeling, it's just a
bunch of bluesy solos. they sound pretty good, but he is no longer putting his
soul into the solos.. before when he used to play his own guitar solos, like
"Fade to Black" and some of the songs off "Master of Puppets" they weren't
really that bluesy at all, but hell, they WERE kirk hammett. now he is just
playing guitar solos that have been recycled over the past 50+ years.
I am not going to say he "sucks" because i know some ppl will say that, but i
really can't stand that term. i must admit i have used it before, but i try
not to.. when someone says that someone sucks, then other ppl say it, and
pretty soon the band cant play their own music anymore, they have to play what
ppl will say "doesnt suck" or "rules", this is why some of us, probably most
of us play music in bands thats not progressive, or atleast not the style we
want to play. because some people say it sucks, and all i have to say is,
hell, if you don't like the music i play, don't fuckin listen to it, but don't
go judgeing my music. i mean, who the hell am i to judge someone else's
creativity. this is the main reason i believe metallica sucks now =)
Rocky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:21:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mats "Rydstr?m" <rydstrom@rocketmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New Swedish Radio Show!
Message-ID: <19980430212131.15072.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com>
Hi there DT-fans,
this saturday, May 2nd, 11 AM we're proud to present the first airing
of the new progressive music radio show for Stockholm, Sweden.
We play the music that you can't hear anywhere else on the air:
progressive, symphonic, psychedelic rock, metal, fusion and jazz.
Monkey business!
This saturday we're featuring a Dream Theater-special and interview
together with some nice, obscure music.
..............................................................
Mats Rydström - d94-mry@nada.kth.se - rydstrom@rocketmail.com
the LORD ROSSE Home Page... http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry
..............................................................
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:48:28 -0400
From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Enough guitar. What about bass?
Message-ID: <199804302148.RAA31726@ren.cs.wm.edu>
I've seen the guitar player thread before. No offense to the guitarists among
us - I appreciate how important it is for you to analyze and understand what
you like and why. Personally, though, I ain't gettin' anything out of it.
So, I'm interested in the opinions of everybody (bassists, other musicians,
non-musicians) on what makes a bass player good, and how, if at all, they may
be compared.
Most of the guitar players I knew growing up really liked Michael Anthony,
because they wanted to be the heroes of the band, garnering all the attention
and acclaim for themselves, while the other guys played some simple support
stuff that no one noticed. That was one of the things that led me to discover
other ways of approaching the instrument, and it's one of the reasons I
appreciated Rush right away. Ged was out there, doin' it, flying in the face
of the "You're just a bassist" tradition. He was (and still is - I say "was"
because I'm describing how I felt when I discovered him) musical and melodic.
He broke the rules, challenging people to listen. But, most importantly, I
realized that I did not have to sit back and play quarter notes when the
guitarist in my band wanted to wank. As a result, I realized why a guitar
solo can sound so thin if the bass isn't supporting it, and, more importantly,
how to fill in the gaps.
I'll stop here, because I realize that this post is a classic finals-week
avoidance technique (I think I'm going to go home and clean the bathroom :).
But I really am interested in what you find good, bad, intriguing, boring,
tasteful, wanky, etc about bassists. Discuss. :)
Finals suck!
-d
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough
cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:58:51 EDT
From: MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: You Not Me vs. You Or Me
Message-ID: <86b1b54.3548f41c@aol.com>
Hey Jammerz -
Steve Zebrowski wrote:
> I can't believe how many people actually prefer You or Me to You Not Me.
Yup. And I'm one of them. :-)
> I will admit that there are some parts of You or Me that I would have
> kept, such as:
> the synth bass intro <really techno...cool>
Definitely. Much better than the guitar in the regular version. Sets more of
a mood here, I guess. (Please bear with me, I am not a musician, so forgive
me if my analysis is not very technical sounding.)
> the interlude <the keys sound TOTALLY KevMo here>
Is the part you're referring to the one near the end with KJLB doing a little
moaning over the top of the piano part? If so, I totally agree as well. I
can't believe that part got cut from the album version.
> I am personally glad they:
> changed the words and key of the chorus, and put the break in there
Yikes! I think the chord progression of the demo's chorus is MUCH better,
although my wife would disagree with me. I love it. Lyrically, I suppose I
like the album version better, but neither version's lyrics do a whole lot for
me.
> shortned the "jam" section <the extended one on the demo is
> cool if you're live, but in the studio it tends to drag
Yeah, I suppose. I think I like the album version jam length better too.
Seems more concise and less meandering.
> eliminated the silly "I need som pencils..." sample at the beginning
Actually, I really like that intro. It gives the song additional character.
I really dig the way the radio bit blends into the synth. Then Mikey P. rips
shit up. I just like the buildup better in the demo than the album. Also, I
like the ending radio bit. Very cool.
One other part I really dig about the demo is the final chorus with the
overdub of "That's alright, I'm okay...." (What's that called....
counterpoint?). I think it builds up the ending of the song into a cool
climax. YNM just doesn't have the emotional peaks and valleys that YoM
has.... to me, YNM just sounds watered down and boring. I totally respect
your opinion, and hey, ANY DT song sure beats most of the shit on the radio
nowadays, but I really wish they had kept the original arrangement for the
most part (maybe with some minor tweakings) and went with that. I'm curious
to hear anyone else's analysis of the 2 trax.
BTW, just saw on the Savatage homepage: June 4, Tuxedo Junction, Danbury, CT!
Woo-Hoo! I smell ROAD-TRIP!!! :-)
Laterz..... Matt T.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:04:33 -0400
From: James Bako <jbako@erols.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Steve Vai & Co.
Message-ID: <3548F571.5DC678CA@erols.com>
Uroborosss wrote:
> Until I heard the improvisational soloing on "Trial of Tears," I couldn't
I'm sure someone else has mentioned this since FII came out, but when I hear that
solo the first thing that comes to mind is Allan Holdsworth's solo during 'In The
Dead Of Night'. To me it's eerie how much these two solos resemble each other.
James Bako "I'd rather be insulted by you
home: jbako@erols.com Than someone I respect"
work: jbako@garban.com - P. Hamilton (helmet)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 17:12:32 -0500
From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Kurt Hamlet
Message-ID: <3548f7501277002@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <600fd59f.3548ed60@aol.com>
from ytsejam@ax.com:
> soul into the solos.. before when he used to play his own guitar solos, like
> "Fade to Black" and some of the songs off "Master of Puppets" they weren't
> really that bluesy at all, but hell, they WERE kirk hammett.
Somebody can correct if I'm wrong, but what I've gathered over the years from
various interviews is that those solos were basically handed to him whole from
Burton or Hetfield.
-Brian
"Some things are expensive because people are passionate about them. Look at
guitars. People will pay thousands of dollars for them. But then look at Jolly
Ranchers. Nobody is passionate about Jolly Ranchers. Sure, they're good, but
nobody's gonna slam a $100 bill down on the counter for 'em. "
Coleridge on IRC Web: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hayd0029
------------------------------
Date: 30 Apr 98 12:44:19 -0700
From: "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: More Guitar, Zappa
Message-ID: <199804302236.PAA01927@mailsun2.us.oracle.com>
Nathan, with another EOJ wrote:
>I'm not saying that JP ever totally
worshipped Zappa or anything, but I think he was definately aware of Zappa's
style
of playing. Who knows, maybe its just the Vai influence in JP
That is probably more likely.. JP sounds a hell of a lot like Vai in the
legato-phrasing licks in "Trial of Tears". My guess is that JP is pretty
strongly influenced by Vai. Speaking of Vai, the beginning of "I Would Love
To" is a WOMAN speaking! Why would Vai write a song which hints at sexual
intercourse and have a little BOY say "No I'm very very shy?".. um, don't
answer that.. "You know, it's when they look you in the eyes.. and they
say.. <insert awesome guitar melody>"
JP actually reminds me very much of Vai, since I sort of mentally think of
them both as super-disciplined guitarists who have put many hours into
practicing a variety of rock guitar techniques. JP describes this in detail
in his video (his file cabinet method and different areas of technique), and
most are aware of Vai's 10-hour daily guitar routine from an old issue of
one of the guitar mags. I think it's very noticeable in their playing that
they can do many things REALLY well. I'll contrast this with another
master, Satriani. I love Joe's work, but he is clearly not in Vai or
Petrucci's league as far as straight picking goes. Most of Satriani's
impossible licks are based on legato phrasings. Just an interesting thing
I've noticed..
>As a matter of fact, I would definately recommend
any somewhat serious guitarist to pick up Shut Up..., its probably got
Zappa's best
guitar work
Cool, I may just do that. I've been thinking about trying out some Zappa,
and I'd like to start with the most guitar-centric stuff..
-Neil.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:46:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Pat Griffin <s1029516@admiral.umsl.edu>
To: ThE NuGgeTjAm <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: --==[ N U N O ]==--
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.980430174226.10338B-100000@admiral.umsl.edu>
I'm probably late on this one, but I'm going to reply anyway because I
don't remember seeing anyone post a correction...
> From: Nathan Rood <nrood@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
> I still don't understand why Nuno is not usually ranked up there with
> these guys. This is spoken with special regards to the intro solo to
> 'He-man Woman Hater'.
Wrong. :)
Read your liner notes, folks. Nuno doesn't even play that intro. I
don't have them in front of me, but it says in the liners that the intro
was played by one of the Zappas (Deezil?).
h t t p : / / w w w . p r o g n o s i s . c o m / g a b b o /
| Pat Griffin gabbo@dreamt.org Reality Squared Design |
h t t p : / / w w w . p r o g n o s i s . c o m / g a b b o /
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:07:02 -0400
From: "Syrinx" <syrinx@mindspring.com>
To: "A Ytse Besides Itself" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Music Boulevard - $15 off, TODAY ONLY.
Message-ID: <199804302310.TAA31379@camel8.mindspring.com>
I just found about this, so..
.if you to go http://www.musicblvd.com/gift , you can get ANY CD you want
for $15 off, but it expires TODAY. NO MINIMUM ORDER NEEDED.
Hell, I got the new Fripp disc for $3.50. :)
- mike.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com
erotomania! - http://www.erotomania.org
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:25:48 -0400
From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: --==[ N U N O ]==--
Message-ID: <199804302325.TAA17957@ia.cs.wm.edu>
Pat Griffin graced my inbox with:
> Read your liner notes, folks. Nuno doesn't even play that intro. I
> don't have them in front of me, but it says in the liners that the intro
> was played by one of the Zappas (Deezil?).
Sorry, Pat. The liners say:
Flight of the Wounded Bumble Bee
-Nuno
He-Man Woman Hater
<lyrics>
Intro/Outro Solos: Dweezil Zappa
The liners for that album are just too damn thick. Mine are all sorts
of beat up from trying to squeeze under those little
booklet-holder-clippy-things.
There was a puzzle on Wheel of Fortune today whose solution was
"Frequently Asked Questions." Yes, Pat, that is a sign from a higher
power.
D-Man out.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough
cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM
http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:46:18 -0400
From: Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Texas Jammers -- Help Me
Message-ID: <35490D4A.6B51@mtu.edu>
Hello all in texas-
I need someone in the Dallas area to copy a TV program from PBS for me
on May 3. I'll trade you some boots for the effort. I've got a limited
DT selection, but LOTS of Rush. Let me know if your interested. Thanks-
Matt
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3822
**************************
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