YTSEJAM Digest 4152
Today's Topics:
1) Wow. I can't believe it.
by Inflammabl@aol.com
2) DT Band Members! Read the FAQ! :)
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
3) FII
by "Alex Smith" <bacchus@azstarnet.com>
4) King Crimson
by "Alex Smith" <bacchus@azstarnet.com>
5) Re: Gaaah!!!
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@linux.ime.usp.br>
6) Re: Derek on Derek
by Calvin6S@aol.com
7) www.prog.net
by Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com>
8) reid, wimbish and calhoun- bottom line, 8/7/98
by Thrak75@aol.com
9) Re: Re: DTS----I promise!
by "sEEdROP" <seedrop@usa.net>
10) derek
by Marco Petrini <mpetrini@tin.it>
11) RE: B-side Boot
by "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4149
by Ayreon@webtv.net (Blind Guardian)
13) Re: Bozzio...
by cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan)
14) My god, the world is ending....
by Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org>
15) And so God made Prog, and He saw that it was good
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 01:54:43 EDT
From: Inflammabl@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Wow. I can't believe it.
Message-ID: <18ac0b5f.35cbe824@aol.com>
I just read the post by Derek, I also read some of the reactions to the post.
With all due respect to the people who critisized what he had to say.. Why?
Why did you do that? I'm sure he subscribes to the jam. That is downright
mean. I support DT with whoever is in the band. I like Derek and I love his
contributions. I'm really ashamed that someone would post such a mean and
downright low post critisizing his post. As for his sexual persuasion, who
gives a fuck. He told you straight how it was, let him defend himself, god
knows he's taken enough slack!! And, you know what.. If I was in DT, I
wouldn't be married and I'd be with a different chick every night as well.
Don't be silly, wrap your willy. Later, J
Jeremy "Jay" Kube
inflammabl@aol.com
kube@nh.ultranet.com
jkube@cyberportal.net
"Sex is Death, Death is Sex; Says it right here on my crucifix!" John P.
Petrucci, Dream Theater.
"If I had breasts, I would never leave the house. Ever." John Perrault
"I don't know what this prog thing is, but it fucking rules" Me, 1992
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 23:59:05 -0600
From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: DT Band Members! Read the FAQ! :)
Message-ID: <002801bdc291$ae413f40$340d84d0@korgx3>
>People on both sides of the fence need to add clarification to some
>of the previous posts.
Well, when you think about it, some of the people on the jam are still
suffering from the apoplexy caused by Derek's post. I'm one of the people
who sits on the fence (and damn, this barbed wire hurts!) I can see both
points of view. There are those who not only get involved in the band
because of the music, they also get into the band because the people who
represent the band represent a good set of moral values. It IS a real turn
on for alot of people to see a group of people who have always been
courteous (well, most of the time) and friendly. I'm one of those people
who will judge a band by their image and not only by their music. I mean,
whenever I hear about a lead singer of a band I like overdosing or going on
an alcohol binge and assaulting people or what not, it really affects my
opinion on the music when I hear it. Oft-times it has led me to discontinue
listening to the band completely, simply because I see this shadow whenever
I hear their music. Derek's complete disregard of the musical aspect of the
band in favor of getting laid was a stout bludgeoning into the side of our
ytse-morals. (Get it?)
Let's say Dream Theater is playing a show and John Myung finally releases
all his pent up rage and takes his bass and beats a security guard over the
head with it. I would then lose some interest in the band. They represent
certain beliefs in their songs and their lyrics that would seem meaningless
and betrayed should an insulant thing like that happen.
I'm sure quite a few people were stunned by Derek's post. See, we really
don't know Derek well at all, and we don't know if the whole thing was a
joke or if he seriously is in a state of sexual overdrive. (Derek! Don't
forget smilies! (: )To me, this behavior is something that I feel decries
Dream Theater's often purified meanings in their earlier songs. Suddenly
Derek bursts onto the jam and posts drivel like that and alot of people's
viruous opinions of Dream Theater were suddenly violated forcibly. I can't
blame them for flaming him (can't blame myself either <G>). We're all used
to Mike being so unselfish and objective in his posts, then suddenly Derek
jumps in with a handful of condoms and a little more than a few of us were
startled, I would think.
Then there are those who don't give a shit who writes the stuff as long as
it's good. Fuck their attitudes, just write good shit. I try to stay on
that side of the fence as much as possible. The more you know about a band,
the more involved you get in their viewpoints on various subjects and the
more easily you can be dismantled by one action that counters your opinion.
I still think the people on this side of the fence are better off. They
just like the music. It's hard for each side to understand how the other
side can be that way, becase the mindset is so drastically different.
Anyway, I'd like to welcome Derek to the jam. Another band member
posting publicly here will be a refreshing addition to our list. But,
Derek, if you ARE joking, you gotta remember the IMO's and the smilies! Go
read the fucking FAQ! :) And don't start any Derek vs. Kevin debates
either, dammit! :D
And without further adieu...
--KorgX3 exits, stage left.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 23:08:16 -0700
From: "Alex Smith" <bacchus@azstarnet.com>
To: "YTSEJAM" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: FII
Message-ID: <01bdc292$eec5dc00$2d1fc5a9@Starnet.azstarnet.com>
ok, Falling Into Infinity clicked, sort of. i like new millenium, peruvian
skies, burning, HK, LitS, Just Let Me Breathe (although the chorus sounds
JUST LIKE queen!), and ToT. However, I still think it's their weakest album.
Alex Smith
bacchus@azstarnet.com
Subdivisions (Rush):
http://www.azstarnet.com/~bacchus/rush/
"A man got a right to wonder
A man got a right to dream
Without looking over his shoulder
To choose the manner of the life he leads
One man's thoughts on another man's skin
We are lover, warrior, magician kings."
-Fish
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 23:11:45 -0700
From: "Alex Smith" <bacchus@azstarnet.com>
To: "YTSEJAM" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: King Crimson
Message-ID: <01bdc293$6b9a5760$2d1fc5a9@Starnet.azstarnet.com>
<quote>
LTiA is not KC's 2nd album. You're oifoff there by quite a lot.
In The Court Of The Crimson King (1969)
In The Wake Of Posideon (1970)
Lizard (1970)
Islands (1971)
Earthbound (1972)
Larks' Tongues In Aspic (1973)
..and so on and so on.
</quote>
Is Earthbound an album? I'd consider Earthbound to be more of a pile of dog
shit with some rotten fish thrown in.
The only KC albums I've ever been able to get into are the first and last of
both periods: In the Court of the Crimson King, Red, Discipline, and Thrak.
Alex Smith
bacchus@azstarnet.com
Subdivisions (Rush):
http://www.azstarnet.com/~bacchus/rush/
"A man got a right to wonder
A man got a right to dream
Without looking over his shoulder
To choose the manner of the life he leads
One man's thoughts on another man's skin
We are lover, warrior, magician kings."
-Fish
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 03:23:11 -0300 (EST)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@linux.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Gaaah!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980808032028.362A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Damon Fibraio wrote:
> Roger, Charone is a woman.
No problems, Damon. I didn't know that, but my points in the
previous e-mail were independent of Charone's gender, of course.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 02:30:25 EDT From: Calvin6S@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Derek on Derek Message-ID: <a30d9edf.35cbf082@aol.com>
Various posts on the way too old Derek vs. Kevin thread:
<< Derek's "coming out" came across as rude, arrogant, and against many o= f the=0Aideals that we would like to think a member of Dream Theater=85= =85=85 It's fairly=0Aobvious that in Mr. Portnoy we have someone who know= s enough to stay above all=0Aof the irrelevent bickering >>
Well, that is an unfair comparison. Derek Sherinian has constantly been= =0Aquestioned and attacked since I've been on here, and as another point= ed out=0Ahe has been attacked and compared to Kevin Moore for around four= years now.=0AMike Portnoy doesn't have to put up with these constant att= acks on the jam (I=0Adon't know about personal mail though).
Keep in mind, Derek has been online for quite awhile now and didn't respo= nd=0AIMMEDIATELY. The fact that he did not respond to such personal atta= cks until=0Anow should be respected as opposed to CONTINUING the stupid p= ut downs.
Derek just has a very HONEST personality. If he doesn't like something,= he=0Awon't pretend he will. I actually prefer this attitude to the "gen= tleman"=0Apersonality. Why mold yourself into something that the FANS wa= nt? That is a=0Aposer and it is exactly what Derek IS NOT doing. Derek = is a very cool person=0Aas long as you can deal with honesty. If you can= 't deal with a person being=0Ahonest, the problem is with you - not him. = (and don't turn this into a Derek=0Avs Mike P thing now - that is even l= amer)
<< But Derek's downplaying the whole "I'm playing for DT" himself. Read = his=0Apost again. >>
Now you guys are analyzing the fact that Derek put "chicks" before DT in = his=0Apost. Get a grip. You read way too much into this post.
<< You don't fit in with the other members of Dream Theater, obviously as= you=0Arefer to yourself as "playing with" the band rather than "being in= " >>
As long as Derek constantly gets treated as "Kevin's replacement" and not= hing=0Amore, he will continue to feel like he is playing "with" Dream The= ater instead=0Aof "being in" Dream Theater. Derek is the keyboard player= for Dream Theater.=0AWAKE UP.
As mentioned before, sometimes the jam turns into a Trekkie (sp?) convent= ion.=0A"Captain Picard just isn't the stud Kirk was." Replace the names = with "Derek=0ASherinian just isn't the stud Kevin Moore was." Well, it = all breaks down to=0Aa SAD trekky convention. I have no problem with dis= cussion, but it is getting=0Away too scary.
<< BTW how do people get "jazz" out of Derek's playing? I don't hear any= of=0Ait. >>
As far as people not hearing the "jazz" in Derek's style, its there. Act= ually=0AJazzy is a better word than Jazz to describe his playing. I thin= k when people=0Adescribe him as "Jazzy" they mean this: Typically, when = you first hear a=0Aperson on keys - you hear one of two types (as a gener= alization of course).=0AOne - Classically styled playing or Two - Jazzy s= tyled. Jazzy doesn't=0Anecessarily mean MODERN Jazz - it just means you = have a certain swing or=0Agroove to your style. I totally agree that Der= ek has a "Jazzy" feel to his=0Aplaying.
Now to illustrate the point let's compare two songs with a similar feel:= =0A6:00 and Just Let Me Breathe. In particular, listen to the keys on th= e verse=0A(the second verse on both).
6:00 - feels like a classical style player trying to sound Jazzy (doesn't= =0Asuck, but lacks that real groove feel).
Just Let Me Breathe - feels like a Jazzy player playing Jazzy. Has a rea= lly=0Anice broken chord staccato feel to it. Doesn't repeat itself over = and over.=0APerfect key sound.
This doesn't mean Derek is better than Kevin. It doesn't mean Kevin is b= etter=0Athan Derek. It means you should realize the strengths that both = Kevin and=0ADerek possess and be happy that you were allowed to hear both= of them weave=0Atheir style into Dream Theater to supply you with a very= DIVERSE Dream=0ATheater.=0A
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 02:39:16 -0400 From: Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: www.prog.net Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980808023916.006ca9e0@mail.isminternet.com>
Hello again folks,
Quick update for those of you who visit Prog-Net. We now have a new domain, so please update your links and bookmarks. Thanks to all of the people who have helped to build the site into what it has become. Stop by and read from the huge archive of reviews and post one or two while you are there!
Prog-Net is NOW: http://www.prog.net "Reviews and Opinions About Progressive Music"
Thanks,
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 03:51:36 EDT From: Thrak75@aol.com To: chosen1@mindspring.com, HseJackBlt@aol.com, Drumsac@aol.com, Subject: reid, wimbish and calhoun- bottom line, 8/7/98 Message-ID: <ee08f57c.35cc0389@aol.com>
oh my god......i just got in from one of the most absolutely frightening gigs ever.
vernon reid, doug wimbish and will calhoun (some of you may have heard of living colour) pooled their brains together and personally reamed every patron at the bottom line tonight.
first off, was the opening band, niacin. niacin features the monstrous dennis chambers, keyboardist joe novello, and basist billy sheehan. billy sheehan?!? oh my god, it's billy. yes, the same one who was in talas, david lee roth's band and mr. big. it wasn't too bad, actually. i thought of it as an american emerson, lake and palmer with too much organ-playing. aside from the organ overkill, sheehan and chambers were animals. i was about 5 feet away from sheehan, and i still can't tell you how he does what he does.
after they were done, and after some setting up, out comes reid, wimbish and calhoun. this is going to be extremely hard to describe to you, but i'll try.
very jam-oriented set. the first song just featured all of them going apeshit, really. you've got vernon (who i was 5 feet from, again) with his arsenal of gear (i.e., roland vg-8, gr-1 synth, his army of pedals, something called a "z-tar", which is a doubleneck guitar that's got a LOT of midi buttons on it). then there's doug, who's got his effects (a sick envelope filter that changes with his attack), and it seemed like he was running the samples and loops. and then calhoun, who's got this bigass sonor kit, and a roland wave drum.
so now, just imagine sitting in on about 80 minutes' worth of three guys ripping a new asshole into you with sick jams, and then tracks off of "mistaken identity". they absolutely blew my mind when they played "the projects", and as you can imagine, it was sooo differently arranged.
more jamming, with wimbish doing this awesome bass solo that featured p-funk riffs in it, and then they go into the living colour tune "go away". i might've been one of the 3 or 4 people i saw who started screaming "now go away" when the part came.
to end the show, calhoun did this solo, that ended with vernon mixing in (yes, he had his own mixer on stage) the strings to some pop song i've heard of a lot but don't know (i checked with deb, my girlfriend, and i think the words "bittersweet symphony" may be in the song). anyways, once this loop comes in full, they start playing and jamming over that.
so like, yeah.....they were incredible. i so wish there was a boot of this show. and now i'm seriously debating whether to go again tomorrow night.
sorry, jay, gil, and jorge, but y'all suckers ain't nowhere near nyc. but man, any of you jammers that live in the city and got some time to kill saturday night, YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT! 2 sets tomorrow, 8 and 11. 20 bucks apiece. you must be 21, though. bottom line (15 w. 4th st., one block west of broadway) does i.d. like crazy. this is an amazing warmup to the jones beach concert on sunday. if i get out of my friend's recital/post-party on time, i'll definitely be hacking it back into manhattan for the 11 show.
so yeah, it's almost 4 am, but holy shit....it was just....
wow.
wild koba
************************************************************************ david y. kobayashi new york law school thrak75@aol.com
"i bring laughter, i bring music...i will soothe your primal fears." -n. peart ************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 02:56:33 -0500 From: "sEEdROP" <seedrop@usa.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Re: DTS----I promise! Message-ID: <001401bdc10f$bbed4040$6502f8cf@spike>
>of what would happen if KevMo (a much cleaner abbreviation, but no >cheesy movie association. damn) wrote the song, i instantly think
Hmmm, I happened to notice these abbreviations and there happens to be a guitarist (jazz, I think) who's artistic name is the same... How 'bout KevMoo?
>flames? "no kitty this is my pot pie! *flatulance bomb*" Name that line: Cartman from South Park!!! The Anal Probe Episode!!! "Dude, that kicks ass!"
Greets, AP seedrop@usa.net uin 4187487
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 10:16:10 +0200 From: Marco Petrini <mpetrini@tin.it> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: derek Message-ID: <35CC094A.EE145201@tin.it>
yes, it was really derek's email
Marco
--
e.mail: mpetrini@tin.it petrus@ben.linknet.it
home page : http://ben.linknet.it/~petrus
Italian Dreamers : http://www.dreamtheater.net/italy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 01:28:00 -0700 From: "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: B-side Boot Message-ID: <000001bdc2a6$73eccb60$5d8c15cf@markphil>
Jammers,
I actually put together a personal bootleg now that I got a CD burner... I'm actually rather proud of it... except for the printing on the CD's which Mike has... it's a professional bootleg with a liner, etc. I just took the official b-side songs, and a couple mpegs I got of the internet and put it together for my personal enjoyment... this way, I have all DT's b-sides and rare stuff on one disc that goes in my car to listen to... and I tell you, it's quickly becomming one of my most played CD's!!!!! I actually created for the purpose of giving it to my friends who where into U2, hoping to convert them to DT... but here's my disc..
Dream Theater: Majesty & You Too
1. The Way it Used to Be 2. Cover My Eyes 3. Eve 4. Where Are You Now 5. Freeport Jam 6. To Live Forever Demo 7. Take Away My Pain Demo 8. Long Island Expressway 9. Red Hill Mining Town 10. Lost Without You 11. Speak to Me 12. J.P.'s Purple Rain 13. J.P.'s Somewhere Under the Rainbow
It's my pride creation! I really love it! Through my searchings, I've gotten 214 MB worth of DT mpegs! With most being rare stuff! I'm looking foward to my creative indevers to create some good car discs!!!
What wonders a CD burner can do!
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 05:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Ayreon@webtv.net (Blind Guardian) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4149 Message-ID: <8655-35CC1859-1621@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
In a post placed on the 'Jam, afn39111@afn.org (earthblind,=A0starbound) wrote "The only thing that could be worse is we find out that Petrucci is on WebTV. It makes me feel sort of funny, though, cause only lamers would use--what does that mean for DT?"
Was this remark really needed? Does this list need a "Webtv vs. PC" bullshit thread? If Mr. Portnoy used Webtv, would you think anyless of him? (Considering all the Derek bashing posts, probably). I use Webtv, and DAMN PROUD OF IT! I personaly would find it quite cool if Mr. Petrucci used Webtv.
~BC, the Webtv Ytsejammer
"The smoke is rising the vision's getting clearer and words become a song in the dreamtime!" ~Ayreon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 02:36:20 -0800 From: cluesump@sirius.com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Bozzio... Message-ID: <v01540b00b1f1d8468675@[205.134.227.160]>
Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> wrote:
>Yes and no. After the first UK album, Eddie Jobson/John Wetton >decided to drop both Bruford and Allan Holsworth. Bozzio, from what I >know of it, was simply (at the time) a session drummer - that they took on >tour with them. I don't know offhand if Bozzio's doing the drums on the >new UK album, Legacy, but I'd be suprised if he was.
Bozzio replaced Bruford on the second album of UK "Danger Money" (their best IMHO) and he also played in the live album "Night After Night". UK did not really have the guitarist after Holsworth left. They used violin instead.
If anyone cares to hear the heaviest drumming Bruford ever played, please listen to the first album of UK. UK did not really have the guitarist after Holsworth left. They used violin instead.
Bozzio formed Missing Persons with his wife after the breaking up of UK.
Regards, AE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Prog Maniac" homepage: http://www.sirius.com/~cluesump ICQ: #13676703
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 06:50:53 -0500 From: Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: My god, the world is ending.... Message-ID: <35CC3B9D.48E9@rollanet.org>
Gentlemen, Ladies,
KorgX3 has indeed sent in a serious post.... I am shocked, stunned, wondering in awe and disbelief. How could this happen?! And who authorized him to stop taking his crack prescription!! I'm gonna go hide in the closet now, and wait for yon world to come tumblin' down 'round meself...
Tom Cox
KorgX3 wrote:
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 05:07:14 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: And so God made Prog, and He saw that it was good Message-ID: <35CC3F72.3F5D1D39@imap1.asu.edu>
And the waters parted as a man with frizzy blonde hair hovered into the views of the masses, holding two stone tablets....
Yo willy geez, izzya homeslice Eckie comin' at ya wit da wicked..heheh, know what i'm SAYIN'....you know. Izda PROG M E T to the A to the L word! I gots yo goth metal n yer thrash metal n yer death metal, but it ain't all dat, you know what i'm sayin'? You want da shit? You want da real shit? You go for the neo KLASSICAAAL, know what I'm sayin'? So I got yo' Stratovarius, Symphony-X, dooz homeboys need to like, stop playin' an' get _playin'_ know what I'm sayin'?
So looky here, see? I gots people...and I mean PEOPLE...who want to know, "Eckie, why do you listen to THAT?" Well, Eckie ain't nobody's fool, yo. You want mo' NE O KLA SI CAL? Here's what ya do. Ya git yo homeboys 'n yo homegirls, an' ya go check out da Strato, the Symphony X, them dogs in Angra can do it too yo, an' an' an' an' DEN...yo go 'n git Netscape an' yall go to http://www.public.asu.edu/~eckie/music.html an' there's aw the kick ass shit you need to know about yo!
But this homeboy can't waste no mo' time, I gotta go do my thang, ya know what I'm sayin'. Peess.
~Eckie sends this to MTV.com and sets up the interview to be the next great VJ.....
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4152 **************************
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