YTSEJAM digest 4161

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Mon Aug 10 1998 - 08:55:56 EDT

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 4157"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 4161

    Today's Topics:

      1) Dream Theater still #1 !
     by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
      2) Eckie and his attempt to cure the ArashHole Syndrome
     by "J E." <je78674@hotmail.com>
      3) Could someone please identify a druming pattern for me?
     by "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
      4) Eckie's Last Stand
     by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
      5) Progmetal album of the year ?
     by Rick Audet <ytse@concentric.net>
      6) Derek in a Finnish teen mag :-{
     by Sorsa Tanja <Tanja.Sorsa@avena.fi>
      7) Voivod accident
     by Stefan Eriksson <stefan.eriksson@mindless.com>
      8) "Martin Scorsese"
     by "Andreas Berger" <aberger@waf-online.de>
      9) Rick Wakeman???
     by "Charlie Farrell" <Charlie_Farrell@email.msn.com>
     10) Brazilian Jammers Get-Together!!!
     by Adriana Califano <acalifano@chubb.com>
     11) Serendipity
     by NGA <nga@software-ag.de>
     12) Dream Theater at Great Woods
     by "Joshua B. Wingell" <wingell@ziplink.net>

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:46:22 +0200
    From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
    To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Dream Theater still #1 !
    Message-ID: <01BDC432.FC1845E0@5.154.dialin.mxs.nl>

      Here's the top 10 of this week's UBL top 100 :

      Top 100 UBL Cards for the Week Ending August 09, 1998

        TW LW Band Name
       ---------------------------
        1 1 Dream Theater
        2 3 'N Sync
        3 2 Backstreet Boys
        4 4 Beastie Boys
        5 5 Metallica
        6 6 Puff Daddy
        7 24 Korn
        8 7 Spice Girls
        9 8 Pearl Jam
       10 10 Barenaked Ladies

      Check out the top 100 at :

        http://www.ubl.com/chart/top100.html

      Then visit Dream Theater's band card at :

        http://www.ubl.com/ubl/cards/001/1/55.html

      Mark Bredius
      _______________________________________________________
      Under A Cyber Moon - The Official Dream Theater Website
      http://www.dreamtheater.net/ E-mail: itchy@dreamt.org
      The Official H Website -- http://www.hogarth.com/steve/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 23:15:05 PDT
    From: "J E." <je78674@hotmail.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Cc: eckie@imap1.asu.edu
    Subject: Eckie and his attempt to cure the ArashHole Syndrome
    Message-ID: <19980810061507.6125.qmail@hotmail.com>

    >Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 16:15:55 -0700
    >From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
    >To: ytsejam@ax.com
    >Subject: Punching Bag
    >Message-ID: <35CE2DAA.780D2162@imap1.asu.edu>
    >
    >Arman Ashouriha found Arash's secret stash again:

    Stash of Viagra, God knows they need some.

    >> Hello, here is Arman (Arash's brother)

    You know there is going to be an annoyance factor when we get this
    greeting.....

    >You gotta wonder just how much caffiene these boys grew up on....

    Not enough Eckie, NEVER enough for these boys.

     
    >> Look at Dream Theater. How much money have they spent to work with
    >>Kevin "suckman" Sheirly and what's the result ->> pure alternative
    >>sound.
    >
    >If alternative music sounded THAT good, I'd be a fuckin' fan!
    >Besides, I don't think I'd be throwing names like "suckman" around >the
    list so freely. I'd bet that Shirley's going to appear on the >next
    album. You know why? Because DREAM THEATER liked working with >him.
    Have you even heard Liquid Tension Experiment yet? Go look at >the
    production crew credits. And in my opinion, LTE sounds fuckin'
    >awesome.

    Come one Eckie, are you serious? These guys listen to LTE? No way...
    They're too damned busy annoying every God damn Ytsejammer followed by
    repetitious sunshine blowing up the asses of little boys known as Hans
    err, Empty Tremor.... funny, isn't there a name for that condition...
    Peda....

    >> Falling Into Infinity is the worst DT album. Here in German >>
    magazins it becomes the lowest notes, Dream Theater ever have >>
    become. Actually, I'm in more than 6 maling lists and every one is >>
    flaming about Dream Theater's SELL OUT WITH FALLING INTO INFINITY >> and
    that's the truth.
    >
    >Here in American magazines, the Ashouriha family have been seen in
    >exclusive photographs poking eachother with hot iron rods screaming
    >"PROG OR DIE! PROG OR DIE!" and are the source of Kenneth Starr's
    >inspiration to prosecute the entire White House staff. Actually, I'm
    >on more than 6 mailing lists (alt.psycho.progfans,
    >alt.guntoting.diaperhead.psychos, alt.drug-fiends.prog, the Crazy
    >Fuckers mailing list, "Caught in A Rash", and this one) dedicated to
    >making fun of the Ashouriha brothers and every one is laughing their
    >asses off about YOUR DELUDED SENSES OF OPINION AND TRUTH.

    I couldn't have said it better myself. Although, I believe you left one
    out Eckie: alt.Pedaphiles.sunshine.Up.The_Ass

    >> I always thought, Dream Theater are agianst confirmity but Falling
    >>Into...
    >
    >They are. How many bands nowadays knows what a double bass drum kit
    >looks like anymore?

    DT and conformity...... yeah, that's why there are 2 power chords on the
    entire FII CD....yup. Damn, I was so blind before. What was I
    thinking! We're all sheep! Except the Prog or Die specialists.

    >> sounding total 90's like,
    >
    >That's cuz it was written and recorded in the 1990's, dillhole. :)
    >What'd you expect, a 2034-sounding album? :P

    He's right Eckie, it would have been better if it were mastered under
    Gordon Lightfoot standards.

    >> the songs are not complex and this sucks.
    >
    >Here's an idea: Go out and buy an instrument. I don't care what, a
    >guitar, a synth, a drum kit..whatever. You spend some time learning
    >it. And when you can, without error, come back and play Lines in the
    >Sand and Trial of Tears note for note with as much soul as the guys >in
    DT do, then I'll listen to your pissing and moanings.
    >
    >No no, I won't even then. When you start writing your own goddamn
    >music, and can make it as "technically challenging and complex" as >you
    want, THEN come back here. I doubt anybody will listen to you >then
    either.

    Nuff said here.

    >> The same gose to Rush. In the 70's they've made great music. In the
    >> 80's they went to radio commercial songs. In the 90's (Test For The
    >> Echo) they went alternative.
    >
    >I'll be kafuckered. They sounded like a straight up rock band, but >an
    alternative rock band? Come on man, Geddy's voice isn't THAT >annoying!
    ;^)

    God damn that kid is a motherfucker. I'd like to hear a Working Man
    tribute album starring the boys of Prog or Die. Wow, now that's a Magna
    Carta release that would grace my CD player every day! Just think of
    the finesse from the instruments..... Since they are so used to
    blowing, I think flute versions of the Rush tracks would be feasible.
    Trying doing that is 7/8!

    >> But you all rave about them because you are blind and will love >>
    eveyrthing they make.
    >
    >This coming from a guy who continues to say that the production of an
    >album made by a bunch of teenaged rockers is SUPERB, even after a
    >whole flock of seasoned listeners and prog fans have said IT >SUCKS....
    >
    >After Arash's continued crap about how great Empty Tremor is, I was
    >repulsed from the idea of ordering a tape. Now with this little gem
    >of an email, I'm completely turned off to the idea of listening to
    >Empty Tremor. Good sales tactics guys.

    Funny, these guys seem to love EVERYTHING Empty Tremor is doing.....

    >> What about if Rush will play on a Nirvana tribute ?
    >
    >Nirvana might be enjoyable?

    Eckie, not everything is possible ;)

    >> You are not a Progressive Metal fan, you are a Dream Theater fan.
    >> You will buy all their records and will love it only because it's >>
    Dream Theater.
    >
    >Does anybody else get the feeling this guy goes out to college
    >campuses with a "Holy Bible of Musical Tastes" once in a while?

    Praise the Lord!!!!!!! Please, make your contributions payable to
    ArashHole Enterprises. 1-800-ArshHol
     

    >> OH YEAH THAT's CREATIVITY AND EMPTY TREMOR SUCK BECAUSE THEY MAKE
    >>PROG AT IT'S BEST !
    >>
    >> WAKE UP. 1994 (Awake) is over. Now you have prog killers like
    >> You Not me, Burning My Soul, Take Away My pain, and Anna Lee. Ha ha
    >> ha. You can't compare Falling Into Infinity with masterworks like >>
    Symphony X's Divine Wings Of Tragedy or Empty Tremor's >>
    Apocolokyntosys.
    >>
    >I will. I still enjoy Falling Into Infinity much more than either of
    >those. NOt because I'm a blind sheep of a DT fan, but because the
    >musical ideas stand out and on their own, they're not contrived or
    >ripped off; while DWoT blew me away the first couple of listens, >after
    a while all the songs on the album sorta blended together in my >mind.
    With Falling Into Infinity, each song is a wholey different >treat.

    Eckie, you waste your time. I think these ding-dongs forgot that this
    is a DT mailing list.....

     
    >> Bands like Empty Tremor, Power Of Omen or Symphony X are making >>
    much better music than Falling Into Infinity.
    >
    > My band can beat up your band any day of the week, pal!

    No way Eckie, with those Progressive Flute players, you don't stand a
    chance!!!!!

     
    >> Arman (The Eyes Of Universe)
    >
    >Uh...yeah.
    >
    >> --------------6EBDCD165AFA0F5F97F59CAF--
    >
    >189705A8798S878CA938 to you too, punk.
    >
    >~Eckie, Master of the Universe
    >
    >------------------------------

    Eckie, I think the code you were looking for was: 867530 Ny-eee-ine.

    Whew, the end. It's tough keeping up with He-Man and his Eye of the
    Universe.

    -Jeff E.

    ______________________________________________________
    Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:19:49 -0700
    From: "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
    To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Could someone please identify a druming pattern for me?
    Message-ID: <000001bdc426$e0e2c040$498c15cf@markphil>

    Jammers,

    I've been really puzzled by this certain drumming pattern I've heard... the
    sections are on Queensryche's Promse Land, the song "Disconnected" and in
    Symphony X's Olympus on "Through the Looking Glass" around the 5 minute
    part...

    I come from a jazz background, but I'm not quite sure this is a funk drum
    pattern... It sounds close, but I just can't be sure... If a drummer or
    anyone could help be, it would put my mind at ease...

    Additionally:

    When Dream Theater and other progressive bands write songs... do they jam
    for a bit, find some material that works, and then work with that? Or do
    they do it like the old classical composers do it, with paper... the latter
    method seems rather strenous, but I'm confounded as to how you would write a
    song with lots of odd time sigs without seeing how it all fits together on
    paper...

    Mark

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 23:33:34 -0700
    From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Eckie's Last Stand
    Message-ID: <35CE943E.39C1DC05@imap1.asu.edu>

    I know, the last thing ppl want to read about is a thread on people's
    mistakes, so i'll make this short....

    Arash Ashouriha wrote:
    > Empty Tremor's free promo tape
    > has been sent out by my brother and it's his opinion.
    > Everbody has his opinion so don't flame at him.

    Everybody's entitled to their opinions, and I'm one of the many who
    subscribed to this list to read about them. But you don't go on here
    sprouting your opinions and insulting everybody on the list at the same
    time. Re-read his message and look at all the times he told us we were
    blind, ignorant stupid people who smelled bad and like eating doggy poop
    for breakfast. That and he kept dissin' DT on the biggest DT mailing
    list in the land...in mime format even. And you don't expect flames?

    Just make sure you know what your message is before you send a complete
    hate fest of an email to the jam, kay?

    ~Eckie says "GAME ON!"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:23:40 -0700
    From: Rick Audet <ytse@concentric.net>
    To: ShitzyJam <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Progmetal album of the year ?
    Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980810002328.0105f6fc@pop3.concentric.net>

    Anyway,

    I was hanging out with a few YtseJammers on Saturday night (uh... that
    would be Dave "PixelPlanet" Thomas, Kim Thomas, Carol Dellinger, Lisa Marie
    Peterson, Chris Ptacek, James Thorpe, and Matt Guillory) and we had the
    pleasure of hearing a certain soon-to-be released CD:

                     Dali's Dilemma "Manifesto For Futurism"

    All I can say that this is the progmetal album you all have been waiting
    for. Be scared. Be very scared. It will blow you away.

    http://www.netwiz.net/~vertigo

    Rick Audet
    San Francisco

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:58:15 +0300
    From: Sorsa Tanja <Tanja.Sorsa@avena.fi>
    To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Derek in a Finnish teen mag :-{
    Message-ID: <F12B2785885AD1118687000629866EED0AFB67@AVENAEXC>

    Now this post has nothing to do with the big Derek debate...

    I read something over the weekend that made my blood boil. There was a
    DT article in a Finnish "music" mag meant for teenagers - SUOSIKKI. It
    was an interview with Derek, made during their visit to the Nummirock
    festival, in June.

    The headline was (translated) "Dream Theater, shoot Desmond Child"
    and there were quotes by Derek saying the following when asked about
    Desmond Child - "To be honest, it was the record company's choice to get
    Desmond involved. We didn't get along at all in the studio, we just
    wanted to hire an assassin to kill him in the studio". Then he rambled
    on about heavy metal being dead. There was a live picture of Petrucci to
    go with the short article. Pic text said "Dream Theater didn't quite
    rock in Nummirock" (they *DID* rock, very much so!).

    Now, I don't believe a word of this. I never believe anything I read in
    that mag. But it makes me so damn angry to read something like this.
    Ugh. What about the people who only read these articles and believe
    them?! The article does make me ponder a little tho'... For your info, I
    didn't buy the mag but read it in the supermarket :-) Oh well.

    Dream Theater photos for your viewing pleasure:
    http://members.tripod.com/~Tenze/dtpics3.htm

    Rain rain acid rain....

    Tanja / Tenze

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:55:55 +0200
    From: Stefan Eriksson <stefan.eriksson@mindless.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Voivod accident
    Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980810105555.007a0ad0@strix.its.uu.se>

    Thought you'd like to know about the ill-fortune that has come over this
    interesting progmetal band....

    VOIVOD IN SERIOUS EUROPEAN VAN ACCIDENT

    The following is a press release from James MacLean, Voivod's manager.
    "Voivod have been on tour in Europe since July 5, playing festivals and
    clubs in support of a new collection of songs called Kronik. Voivod had an
    accident on their way to Switzerland Tuesday afternoon August 4. It
    happened near Mannheim, Germany. The back tire of the van they were
    travelling in blew out, causing the van to roll six times into a field.
    Eric (Forrest, the band's bassist/singer) was thrown out of the van. He has
    broken bones in his lower spine, internal injuries and some broken ribs. He
    has undergone surgery to have metal plates attached to his spine, and will
    be kept in an induced coma
    for another few days. This is until the swelling on his spine, internal
    injuries and the shock to his system from transfusions can be fully
    asessed. He is stable and is expected to stay in hospital for at least a
    month. He WILL walk again, we're just not sure how well. We pray for his
    speedy recovery. Denis (d'Amour, guitar) and Michel (Langevin, drums) are
    staying with him. Denis has a few bruises and stitches in his arm; Michel
    and the crew have minor bumps and bruises."

    keep him in mind

    Stefan
    ______________________________________________

    Stefan Eriksson
    e-mail: stefan.eriksson@mindless.com

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:37:09 +0200
    From: "Andreas Berger" <aberger@waf-online.de>
    To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: "Martin Scorsese"
    Message-ID: <01bdc442$728a6500$LocalHost@p100>

    Hi!

    I know I'm *really* late with this one, but I don't think anybody else
    has answered this yet:
    The inspiration for Korg's 'Mutilating Derek' post from last week
    obviously came from the song "Martin Scorsese" by the band King Missile.
    In it, the singer describes all the gruesome things he'd do to the
    director, "because he makes the greatest fucking movies". I think the
    video was once shown on Beavis & Butt-Head.

    Have I won anything?

    Take Care,
    Andreas Berger

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:03:21 -0000
    From: "Charlie Farrell" <Charlie_Farrell@email.msn.com>
    To: "Ytsejam list" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Rick Wakeman???
    Message-ID: <078f53506100a88UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com>

    Damon commented:

    >! Rick Wakeman is most noted for playing with the band Yes. He also has a
    >! solo career going with more albums than most band could ever hope to
    >! record.

    Not to mention a career as a 'guest' on TV game shows. He also appeared
    recently on a BBC program dealing with computers - which apparently he
    wasn't that confident about dealing with.

    Oh, a he can also be seen down the local church hall speaking about his
    Christian faith - and very entertaining he is, I'm asurred. - and probably
    the cheapest way to catch the guy playing live.

    >! However, many would say that Rick Wakeman's best work was in the
    >! early 70s-era Yes and his first two or so solo albums. To hear this man
    in
    >! action, you will need to buy Yes Fragile and Close ot the Edge, and Rick
    >! Wakeman's Six Wives of Henry VIII to start you off.

    I fully agree. That's the stuff that switched me onto him.

    Charlie

    Work: http://www.servemode.co.uk/
    email: charlie@servemode.co.uk

    URL: http://www.servemode.co.uk/Charlie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:30:56 -0400
    From: Adriana Califano <acalifano@chubb.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Brazilian Jammers Get-Together!!!
    Message-ID: <35CEE800.5F8B@chubb.com>

    Hello People...

    Sorry for not answering earlier Daniel and Roger and others that this=20
    issue may concern!! About a get-together at Galeria, in front of=20
    Aqualung? Sounds ok but not the best choice (agree with you Roger, some=20
    place we can eat!!!) ... I don=B4t know if I=B4m going, but my boyfriend=20
    (Gilberto Bressan) is going for sure, in fact he=B4s the one who started=20
    all this!!! I=B4m gonna ask him to answer your posts ... but just as a=20
    previous message: He=B4s going!!! Just set the date & time up ok? Talk to=
    =20
    you son guys!

    ADRIANA CALIFANO

    --=20
    Adriana Califano mailto:acalifano@chubb.com
    The Chubb Corporation http://www.chubb.com/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:15:28 +0100
    From: NGA <nga@software-ag.de>
    To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Serendipity
    Message-ID: <01BDC469.53F02860@pcnga.software-ag.de>

    Hi all

    where to start today? Damon recently stated that asking a blind
    person to drive is the worst thing you can possibly do. I hate to tell
    you this, but you are wrong - the worst thing you can ever conceivably
    do is to ask a cannibal for a blow job. OK, now on to reality.

    Prog or die. I always wonder about the people who write something
    like this. Never heard of freedom of choice? Who can still remember
    being forced to eat spinach as a kid - "eat it up because it's good for
    you". And how many people were put off spinach for ever as a result?
    I happen to like the stuff, and I know there are a lot of good things
    you can do with spinach (including eating it) but I was never force-fed
    with the stuff. I often feel the same way about music. "Here, listen to
    this, you MUST hear this, you've GOT to like it". If you want to put
    me off a band from the beginning, tell me stuff like this - I'll be
    guaranteed to have a negative attitude from the first note. On the
    other hand, say something like "you might like this, give it a try if
    you want" and you could possibly have whetted my appetite.

    Tip of the week. Yanniacropolyptica, the new album by Empty Tape.
    They sound a bit like every other prog band you've ever heard, but
    hey, these kids are only 4 years old, yet both already claim to have had =
    sexual relationships with Monika Lewinsky and Derek Sherinian ("oh =
    Nicki, what big lemons you have").

    Explorers Club. The bad points first. This album does not need any
    vocals - none whatsoever. All of the vocal parts sound very, very
    contrived, and the lyrics are of the quality you might expect to find in
    7th or 8th grade creative writing classes. Example: it's always darkest
    before the dawn. Yeah, thanks, glad you pointed that out to me. My
    other main gripe is the mix, or rather the lack of it. I know Bozzio is
    in there somewhere, but I really have to concentrate hard to find him.
    The good points. The music is simply superb, much better than
    Liquid Tension Experiment. The tracks shift and move in unpredictable
    ways, keeping you interested all the time just in case you miss
    something. There is, however one change that doesn't quite work
    for me - the first 3 minutes or so of the second track are very creepy
    and atmospheric with a strong Yes feel (3rd track off "Tales From
    Topographic Oceans") and then suddenly the jump to something that
    sounds like Enigma - just a little too extreme for me. The solos are
    all good, and the bass playing and drumming are perfect. But the flute
    and the trombone are no-nos. 7/10

    The Derek post. Some people are never satisfied. For years, some
    contributors to this list have been saying "wouldn't it be cool if more
    members of the band joined up". Now, Derek makes one posting
    in which he clearly states how he sees things and a mighty flame
    war breaks out! If he wants to shag all the women he can get, fine
    by me. If he gets a kick by rogering cheer leaders with a prize-winning
    leek, again fine by me. I'm paying this guy as a musician, not for what
    he thinks or gets up to in his spare time. Next thing we know is
    people will stop listening to him because some nerd finds out that he
    did/didn't vote for Bush/Clinton or whatever.

    Now it's time to go to the town carnival and get pleasantly shit-faced.

    stay safe and happy listening
    Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de)
    Currently playing: Noisebox - Monkey Ass
    "Quit putting a dollar sign on everything on this planet" - Bill Hicks

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:35:07 -0400
    From: "Joshua B. Wingell" <wingell@ziplink.net>
    To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Dream Theater at Great Woods
    Message-ID: <008701bdc45b$4f718670$3b9a0fce@alpha>

    Well, the Great Woods show was two nights ago. Man, it was awesome!
    Dream Theater was at their best. They played so tight. And it wasn't too
    loud. They sounded PERFECT!

    I had James point directly at me once, and John and Mike both gave me
    smiles! :-) They seemed to try to make eye contact with every person that
    was standing up and cheering for them. I think I got so many because I was
    the only person that they could see until the sun went down :-) I was
    standing
    as far to the right (Dream Theater's left) as you could get, and about 20
    rows
    back. I was the only one standing in that area. Not great seats, but it
    also
    meant that Dream Theater could see me because the sun wasn't shining
    directly
    behind me!

    I think that Dream Theater is going to be picking up some new fans from
    these
    shows. Even the 70 year old people sitting next to me were getting into it!
    There were so many people standing up at the end cheering for them. They
    won the crowd over BIG TIME!

    I had at least four people come up to me afterwards and ask me "Do
    you know this band? Who are they? Are they new?" I just pointed to my
    shirt and told them to buy their CD's. Although I suspect that some of the
    people
    might have only had turn-tables ;-)

    Unfortunately, I only got to see DT. I was in the middle of a move and had
    to get
    going so I could get some more work done. So I paid $88 (me and my
    girlfriend,
    who also is a DT fan) to see an hour long show. It was the best money I
    have
    ever spent. Thanks for the great show Mike, James, John, John, an Derek!
    :-)

    Go and see this tour! Get the tickets. Now! What are you waiting for?

    Josh

    ------------------------------

    End of YTSEJAM Digest 4161
    **************************



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