YTSEJAM Digest 4175
Today's Topics:
1) RE: YTSEJAM digest 4173
by "Todd O. Klindt, MCSE" <pendragn@netins.net>
2) Re: PLEASE
by subtlerage <subtlerage@subtlerage.com>
3) tonight's show at the E Center
by skooc@earthlink.net
4) Re: umm...someone is gay (DTC, I swear!!!!)
by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@umdnj.edu>
5) um....someone here is REALLY...er..hehe...gay
by Thrak75@aol.com
6) Re: Jones Beach Show
by Nathan Rood <horizen@bellatlantic.net>
7) Bands, DIE! DIE! DIE!, and The Way It Used To Be.
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
8) Newsletter/DT fan club (US)
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
9) Re: Newsletter/DT fan club (US)
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
10) Spock's Beard Fans...
by prog-junkie@cyberdude.com
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4161
by Nshsunsfan@aol.com
12) Re: Bands, DIE! DIE! DIE!, and The Way It Used To Be.
by Alex Fraser <id@dreamt.org>
13) discontinue subscription
by merlin@castlegate.net (Merlin)
14) re : best song of the millenium
by Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@fh-niederrhein.de>
15) re: The Empty Tremor mess >READ THIS<
by Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@fh-niederrhein.de>
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:28:02 -0500
From: "Todd O. Klindt, MCSE" <pendragn@netins.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 4173
Message-ID: <000701bdc5fd$6a6bcf50$010aa8c0@camelot.netins.net>
I've seen Al, I don't want to date his daughter! (take that any way you
want!)
tk (I still don't look like Geoff Tate)
10) Derek in Ytseland
by AL <al@isd.net>
He's still not dating my daughter though!
Psssst... Derek, My daughter thinks you're hot! But have you ever seen
what a Milwaukee Sawzall can do to a human finger? Not to mention other
appendages that lack skeletal reinforcement...
/Al thinks it's safer to try and "pull the pork" on a Siberian Tiger with an
abscessed tooth, then date his daughter. ;o)
-- See ya, AL... The YTSE ProgtologistSwitchcraft Communications & Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never raise your hands to your kids. Did I mention dating my daughter can be hazardous?
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:21:20 -0500 (CDT) From: subtlerage <subtlerage@subtlerage.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: PLEASE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980812091927.20590A-100000@mozart.hostway.net>
:>then send to : ytse-request@ax.com
:I don't know if it has changed since I subscribed, but that's wrong. It's :the same address but with a subject of asdf and unsubscribe ytsejam in the :body. :
i don't know if this has been addressed yet or not, but you're both incorrect.
send mail to: ytsejam-request@ax.com subject: asdf contents: unsubscribe ytsejam
just thought i'd clarify to save headaches.
_______________________________________________________________________ Andrew Miller - subtlerage@subtlerage.com - http://www.subtlerage.com subtlerage - keyboard oriented progressive new age ambient rock Silent Pendulum Music - PO Box 2194 - Iowa City, IA 52244 "The alien lab mutt crapped on our universe." - Anonymous
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:35:25 -0700 (PDT) From: skooc@earthlink.net To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: tonight's show at the E Center Message-ID: <199808121435.HAA21859@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
If anyone would like to meet for the show tonight at the E Center in Camden, NJ I'll be there around 6:00. I'll be wearing the FII tour shirt with the band pic on the front. I'll also have a NY Yankees hat on. I'm about 5' 10" with glasses and a moustache.
Chow babeeeeeeeeeeeee! :)
Scott
******************************************************* Being misunderstood is the fate of all geniuses, is it not? - Howard Stern *******************************************************
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:41:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@umdnj.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: umm...someone is gay (DTC, I swear!!!!) Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980812103803.6790B-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
Howdy Jammers,
Your friendly neighborhood hootenanny here......
Anyway, I was wondering if any of those people that have "in"s with the band know about any of the cover art for the CD or video.........
-Al
===================================================================== Watch the seasons, walk the miles, survive the time.................. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu OR sigma982@yahoo.com OR theprof@bigfoot.com HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:44:10 EDT From: Thrak75@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: um....someone here is REALLY...er..hehe...gay Message-ID: <ad1d9142.35d1aa3b@aol.com>
so um....i picked up mike watt's "contemplating the engine room" the other day. i was coerced into getting that because i saw him perform it live at cbgb's about a month ago, and he utterly frightened me. there's some pretty ace guitar playing on that there album, which is labeled a "punk rock opera". i find it ironic that we now have "punk rock operas"- after all, punk's birth in the 70s was more or less a reaction to the extravagance of glam and prog rocks. i don't recall the ramones ever having an awesome laser light show, as a matter of fact. not even when i saw them play at my grammar school when i was 12 (yes, they played my GRAMMAR SCHOOL- a CATHOLIC GRAMMAR SCHOOL; proof that us catholic boys- and especially girls- know how to have some fun).
so my question is....anyone one of you "extraordinarily happy" ladies or gents able to recommend me to another one of mr. watt's works? perhaps something from his fIREHOSE days? maybe another golden nugget (huh-uh...i said "nugget") of mr. watt's solo work? info that is sent to me privately or pubicly shall receive warm and tender licks upon THEIR nuggets signifying my erect gratitude.
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:42:15 -0400 From: Nathan Rood <horizen@bellatlantic.net> To: Screaming in Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Jones Beach Show Message-ID: <35D1A9C6.C1079A21@bellatlantic.net>
ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> WARNING: Our tickets said showtime was 7:30, but DT started at 7:15. > Go early if you're going.
I can verify this for the Harvey's Lake show as well. When I called to order tickets, the sales rep told me the showtime was 7:30, but when we got there the printed time on the tickets was 7:00. The boys were just starting up NM (promptly at 7:00) just as we were walking in, so we had to scramble to find our seats while they were playing.
> It was kind of weird, though, being that far away, to see Mike hitting > drums n stuff, and having to wait to hear what we just saw him play. > I can't remember the last time I was that far away for a concert. No > matter, though. It was awesome.
They did fill up the sound of the outdoor amphitheatre (sp?) quite well thought. It's new territory for them, and they did great. From as much of a neutral standpoint as I can take, they were easily the best opening act I've seen at any big gig. That's coming from watching the rest of the audience's reactions, ie DT really got the crowd pumped up.
> ELP kicked my ass. Mojo's chief complaint about them was that they're > so damned pretentious, and I think that's what I enjoyed most. Of > course, once he pointed out that their second song sounded like a > Spinal Tap song, I couldn't get that idea out of my head. :) > Especially when Keith was playing his piano concerto. I just kept > thinking "Lick My Love Pump." :)
LOL! Keith was quite a live wire though, he really stole the show from all three acts. After the drum solo he stands on his grand piano and points at Carl Palmer, then he turns around and plays the top keyboard upside-down. And he ain't playin chopsticks either, jesus christ!
> Steve Morse looks like John Jens. No value judgment, just an > observation.
I thought Steve looked like Dave Murrey up there, especially when he started tucking his chin and waving his shoulders while he played.
> DP is a bunch of great musicians, but they were boring to watch. > Maybe it's the fact that everyone but Steve is too old to move around, > or maybe it was annoying to watch the singer stand behind a pair of > bongos that no one could hear him playing, or maybe it was just that > they were so fucking loud, but we left after the third song.
Echoes of that here, as well. We left after about a half an hour. My friends commented that all of DP's songs sounded exactly the same. I dunno what everyone's been reporting, but that couldn't have been Ian Gillian singing, this guy had an incredibly gravely voice, I'd hate to see how many packs of smokes he's been through in 20 years. Those ridiculous bongo's did get pulverized by the loudness, but I'd say at least he was doing something other than just standing there like a jackass while the band was jamming. BTW-he sure was glad the audience came out......."thank you-thank you, thanks for showing up!" at least three of those between every song. All in all, the show is very worth the money, ELP is very entertaining and DT is doing quite well right now.
-Nate -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nathan Rood / handle: Horizen new! email address: \ ICQ: 6170743 mailto:horizen@bellatlantic.net / ===================================================================== "There are two ways to get through life easily; to believe everything, or to believe nothing. Both release the mind from thinking." Earl Hindman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:09:13 -0600 From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Bands, DIE! DIE! DIE!, and The Way It Used To Be. Message-ID: <005e01bdc603$7b74dde0$45f086cc@korgx3>
>Or to put it another way, if you DIDN'T particularly like Savatage but >loved DT & Queensryche would you like the afore-mentioned bands?
Yes and no. Those bands are all on CRACK! Best pick of the litter: Angra "Holy Land". That album kicks ass, so does Stratovarius' "Visions" and Symph-X's "The Divine Wings of Tragedy." They are more of power metal with fast as fuck riffing and blazing solos. Angra I would think would be the most laid back, but their "Angels Cry" album competes well speed-wise with the other two bands. "Holy Land" is more controlled and melodic, IMO. Pretty much they're all similar to Queensryche (Warning/EP period) on crack.
>Mr. Memkil,
If you want to flame this guy, please do so through private mail. I have a feeling we're having a new Goerge Farber rise up among us. It'll only perpetuate another long drawn out flame war about D-Man's sex life.
>of Bafu, the Ytsejam Drinking Game, and about Mike Bahr posts about >life and Dream Theater, rather than about business. Times change, and I >think many of the vets, at least in their hearts, have been left behind.
Agreed, Pat. I still remember my original awe of getting my first digest about 4 years ago. It seems like most of the characters from back then have either gone into lurking, or quit altogether (Where did Hairball disappear to anyway?) The old tape trades... The excitment of DT getting a new keyboard player... The orchestration of the Kevin Moore demos distribution... Mike Bahr's excitement over being able to release Subconscious... I don't think we'll ever see those days again, however, mostly due to the commercialization of the internet. Back then, only college kids and tech-minded people knew what it was. It was our own private medium back then. :\ Ah, well. I still enjoy the jam in it's own different way, now, but those old days kicked ass. :) -- Mr. Chuckalupugus in only in your head.
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:36:24 +0200 From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Newsletter/DT fan club (US) Message-ID: <01BDC617.F5FBA8A0@117.154.dialin.mxs.nl>
Rogerio Brito wrote :
> * first, why didn't you post the address to subscribe to UaCM's > newsletter to Ytsejam?
Good question... You can subscribe by sending an empty email to :
And unsubscribe by sending an empty email to :
> * second, UaCM's newsletter is no substitute for Voices, because > this newsletter you're doing is just of, how can I say, informative > character, when Voices was a place for moderated discussions.
True. I actually started the newsletter to keep the "casual" Dream Theater fans interested... You know, those who like the albums but don't wanna bother with the Ytsejam or check out the official site on a regular basis... With the newsletter, they will stay informed and can check UACM for more information IF or WHEN they want to... Of course I'll probably lose a lot of daily visitors this way too, but so be it.
Anyway, it looks like we have an alternative for Voices *too* now, thanks to Lisa Marie. :-)
> Perhaps I'm missing something, but there are my opinion. I'd > still love to have Voices up. :-(
Having Voices around as an alternative was cool. Having to rely on Charone's schedule for your post to show up wasn't... Good thing I sent the newsletter there in it's *entirity* and asked Charone why it hadn't gone through... Otherwise I wouldn't even have known the list was dead. _____
Jeremy "Jay" Kube wrote :
> About this US DT fan club? What's the deal? Why did it fall apart? > We now have a kickass webpage with update info 24/7 but we don't have > a newsletter??!! Why? Is a new updated fan club in the works?
The fanclub, Neil Elliot's DTIFC, is still there. The only problem is becoming a member, without having to send money overseas to the UK... As far as I know this was handled by DT's old management who went belly up... The way I see it all it would take is for someone trustworthy to handle all subscriptions in the US *and* distribute the DTIFC magazines. Any takers ?
> I hope to start working on a website soon for DT.. To go on the > "lifting shadows off a ring" If it comes out good.. I'll send > everyone the URL.
Mail me the URL, and I'll add it to UACM's links page. :)
Mark Bredius _______________________________________________________ Under A Cyber Moon - The Official Dream Theater Website http://www.dreamtheater.net/ E-mail: itchy@dreamt.org The Official H website -- http://www.hogarth.com/steve/
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:03:09 +0200 From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Newsletter/DT fan club (US) Message-ID: <01BDC61B.788C01E0@117.154.dialin.mxs.nl>
I just wrote :
>> Rogerio Brito wrote : > >> * first, why didn't you post the address to subscribe to UaCM's >> newsletter to Ytsejam? > > Good question... You can subscribe by sending an empty email to :
Fuck, now I remember why I didn't post this... I have to MANUALLY APPROVE each and every subscription by replying to some stupid automated message ! I just got 16 emails, with the subject :
"APPROVE: <email address> wants to join uacm"
Please use the form on UACM if you can. I don't have the time to add everyone manually... And while you're there, you can pick up last Saturday's issue.
Thanks,
Mark Bredius _______________________________________________________ Under A Cyber Moon - The Official Dream Theater Website http://www.dreamtheater.net/ E-mail: itchy@dreamt.org The Official H Website -- http://www.hogarth.com/steve/
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:12:14 -0400 (EDT) From: prog-junkie@cyberdude.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Spock's Beard Fans... Message-ID: <199808121612.MAA08265@web02.globecomm.net>
might want to check this site out.
http://members.tripod.com/~Autumn_Leaf_Records
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:17:48 EDT From: Nshsunsfan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4161 Message-ID: <2013a8d3.35d1c02d@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-08-10 08:46:39 EDT, you write:
<< Explorers Club. The bad points first. This album does not need any vocals - none whatsoever. >>
It's true.
The first cut is just screaming along and then BOOM...vocals. They were somewhat unexpected at that particular point in the song and are not needed throughout the entire CD.
This album most definiately could stand on its own without lyrics, much like most of DT stuff (no slight on LeBrie or DT lyrics whatsoever). IMHO.
_____Nikki______________________ ~~Through Nature's Inflexible Grace~~ ~~I'm Learning to Live. --J. Myung~~
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:22:55 +0000 From: Alex Fraser <id@dreamt.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Bands, DIE! DIE! DIE!, and The Way It Used To Be. Message-ID: <01J0IIYG2GXW8ZDVYV@carleton.edu>
> >Mr. Memkil, > If you want to flame this guy, please do so through private mail. I have a
Oh, like you've never flamed a guy in public while being flaming and talking about D-Man's ... err ... "flaming". BLEAT! ;)
> Subconscious... I don't think we'll ever see those days again, however, > mostly due to the commercialization of the internet. Back then, only > college kids and tech-minded people knew what it was. It was our own > private medium back then.
You hit that one right on. It's also an interesting sociological case. In the early days, the internet was populated by like-minded people, so perhaps that's what led to more tranquil mailing lists - people who have the same interests don't get on each others' nerves as much. However, I make the suggestion that the larger issue at stake here is size. I don't know how large the jam was when I joined in late '94, but I would assume it was significantly smaller than it is now. Having a larger group of people makes it inherently more difficult to generate a feeling of community, and for some reason, more prone to large flame wars. In essence, on every mailing list there are going to be a core group of posters, and a bunch of lurkers. Therefore, the core group on a list of 1100 is going to be larger than the core group on a list of 200, which leads to more opportunity to disagree/fight/whatever, and as we all know, email is impersonal to the point where people will write things that they would never say face to face. Except for Mosh. ;)
I went through the same thing back in my grunge days. I was subbed to the Pearl Jam list in late 93, the list was about 200 strong, and it was very cool. A lot of tape trading, and general good discussion. Then the internet boomed, the list got upwards of 1000 people, and things got unruly. Ask Mike Burstin, he was there around the same times I was. By the way, he got me into DT. What a swell guy. :)
I know I'm as guilty of excessive ranting as anyone else out there, but I try not to post things unless I can say something relevant, or at least try to make a joke out of it, because laughter is a good tension breaker. And maybe nobody cares, but it'd be nice for the Ytsejam to be the first "large" list that really worked. The only reason I'm still here is because this is by far the best list I've ever read, so I know we can do it...
Abdicating the soap box, id
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:45:17 -0400 From: merlin@castlegate.net (Merlin) To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: discontinue subscription Message-ID: <01BDC5EF.A372B060@lynette.staff.castlegate.net>
I would like to cancel my subscription to the ytsejam news letter. Please advise. Thank you. Steph :) stef@castlegate.net
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:57:55 -0700 From: Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@fh-niederrhein.de> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re : best song of the millenium Message-ID: <35D24823.6A81@fh-niederrhein.de>
I wrote :
>Ok jammers, >Lets stop flaming each other and do something for DT. >There's a vote goning on the net for the best song of the millenium.
>THE URL IS : http://www.listen.to/best.song?
>There you can find the best 500 songs people have vote allready. >A Change Of Season is somewhere in place 350 or so. >I've also found, Ytsejam and Take The Time in the chart but far far away from the top.
>Let's vote for some DT songs.
"McClure Engineering" <mcclure@magiclink.com> aka KorgX3 wrote :
>>Sounds pretty good. But I think we should consolidate it to one song - >>and everybody give it 3 points. >>(kinda like what happened with the best guitar solo thing) >> >>Let's have a little internal vote on which song, OK?
>Yes, let's have a survey on what to post to a survey. :D What the?!?!? :)
>I already went and put my 3 points to A Change of Seasons. You all do the >same. By and large it is an excellent song, on which I think we can all >agree. Personally, I do believe it is my oft overlooked favorite. :)
>I'll use my other 8 email accounts and add another 24 points to it, too. :) >Just do it! >--KorgX3
And you say, I don't contribute any good ideas to the jam !
Anyway, lets vote for A Change Of Seasons. I think once the song has reached about 650 points, those who havn't vote untill then can vote for "Learning To Live".
Maybe we can fill the complete top 10 with DT songs ;-)
Arash -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | | | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| | The Eyes Of Universe - The Official EMPTY TREMOR Fan Club Site | | | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1794/ | | | | by Arash and Arman Ashouriha email: ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de | --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:59:03 -0700 From: Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@fh-niederrhein.de> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re: The Empty Tremor mess >READ THIS< Message-ID: <35D24867.4441@fh-niederrhein.de>
"Martin Nyman" <marnym@hotmail.com> wrote :
>Hello there people!
>I thought I=B4d say a few words about this "Empty Tremor and the two=20 >german fanatic brothers who don=B4t even like DT" mess.
Why are you call me fanatic ? I have nothing to do with all this shit. My brother has said that he don't like FII and, that in his opinion, Empt= y Tremor are making better music that DT on FII. IT'S HIS OPINION, NOT MINE AND NO= T YOURS. Arman loves DT but he don't like FII. Is this a act of crime ?
I love nearly all DT songs. DT are my favorit band on earth. IT'S REALLY STRANGE: My younger brother makes a bad comment about FII and= sudently everyone hates me and Empty Tremor !!!! Come on people this is not fair := -(
Also, we are not German, we live here since about 9 years.
>First I have to say that ET isn=B4t that bad. I think they are quite tal= ented musicians.=20 >But to say that the production on Apocolokyntosys is better than Kevin=20 >Shirley=B4s on FII is what I would call a lie.>
This was Arman's opinion, not mine.
THE ONLY I THINK THAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT THE FII PRODUCTION IS THAT THE K= EYBOARDS ARE=20 TOO MUCH IN THE BACKGROUND. ON THE "THE MAKING OF FII CD", YOU CAN HEAR D= EREK MUCH=20 BETTER THAN IN THE FINAL MIX. Btw, Kevin Shirley's work on LTE is incredible.
>But I mean these guys are really young. Were DT as superb as they are no= w when they were=20 >teenagers? Give ET a couple of years, and let them make some records and= =20 >earn some money to hire producers and stuff. Then we=B4ll see... >And then I think it was the little Arman-thing who said that DT isn=B4t=20 >prog anymore. They are!! But so what? Why does everything have to be=20 >prog? I think there has to be all kinds of music. My favourite music is=20 >Prog Metal but I listen to lots of other things as well. (mostly Metal)=20
I love all kind of music with the exception of Grunge, Alternative, Hip H= op and Dance-Techno.
>I=B4m sure of that there are people who can combine listening to DT and=20 >Spice girls for example.
If you would take a look at your past digests, last week I've said: " I l= ove Spice Girls Viva Forever song." And it's ture. I love Sting, Jean Michel Jarre, Mike Oldfield and The Bee= Gees too
>Well, I=B4m not completely sure :-) >By the way, the keyboardist of Empty Tremor told me in a mail that their= =20 >label "Rising Sun" don=B4t want to release their next album because it=B4= s=20 >too progressive. They want them to play more speed/powermetal. Now=20 that=B4s really... mean! >Prog on ET!!!
2 weeks ago, I've send a message to the jam and told everyone that Rising= Sun won't release their next album because of poor sales of "Apocolokyntosys". Some Ystejammer have followed by request of buying Apocolokyntosys. I've also send a thank you message to everone who has support ET. But now, some of you call me "Arshole" just because my brother don't like= FII.
Btw, I've heard the demo songs for the next album and they are superb. It would be a shame if they woudn't become the chance to release them.
NP: Dream Theater - Live In Amsterdam 1997
Arash ------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | = | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY = | | = | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ = | |------------------------------------------------------------------------= --| | The Eyes Of Universe - The Official EMPTY TREMOR Fan Club Site = | | = | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1794/ = | | | | by Arash and Arman Ashouriha email: ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de= | ------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4175 **************************
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