YTSEJAM Digest 4216
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Steve Vai? We don't need no stinking Steve Vai!
by Dushko <duskob@mol.com.mk>
2) Fan Club Show
by "D. Frantz" <dfrantz@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
3) Burying the hatchet in Van Halen (Sorry, Ed)
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
4) EVH again
by "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
5) Eddie/Randy
by "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
6) Quiet Riot
by "Thomas Forcier" <thomas.o.forcier@worldnet.att.net>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4214
by Ibanez506@aol.com
8) re: Randy Rhoads
by AEllis1222@aol.com
9) Van Halen/Angra/Fish/Savatage
by TEDESCO MATTHEW A <Matthew.Tedesco@Colorado.EDU>
10) Re: Derek Eruption - BRING IT BACK!!!
by Michael Pomerleau <mpomerle@mail1.nai.net>
11) TOP 15 Progressive Bands
by Juan Francisco Quintero <jfqc@nl1.telmex.net.mx>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4203
by hellion <hellion@busprod.com>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4203
by hellion <hellion@busprod.com>
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4214
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
15) Prog CDs For Sale
by hellion <hellion@busprod.com>
16) Mike Bahr Owes CDs
by hellion <hellion@busprod.com>
17) Re: Kevin Moore's Interview
by Mauricio Martinez Villarreal <al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
18) Response to Korg's post on VH
by Inflammabl@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:04:00 +0200
From: Dushko <duskob@mol.com.mk>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Steve Vai? We don't need no stinking Steve Vai!
Message-ID: <35DE1900.14CAD3B9@mol.com.mk>
> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:08:17 -0500 ()
> From: al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx
> Subject: Re: Steve Vai? We don't need no stinking Steve Vai!
>
> Well, i read that Steve did not programmed the piano stuff
> himself......he hired some guy to do it for him. I read that Vai actually
> transcribed the music for that piano part, and because the programming
> into a sequencer takes a lot of time, he hired some guy. Actually, he
> didnt hire the guy to program that part only....Vai has tons of stuff only
> in transcriptions he has done over the years, and gives "the dirty job" of
> programming that to some guy.
What all can someone find out of just posting some of his fave keys
solos. :-)
> The amazing shit is how Steve writes a song or a part of a song in just
> a piece of paper, never playing it on his (or the instrument
> desired) instrument before, that s how he composed "Liberty". The guy
> hears it all in his brain....shit!!!!
>
> Mauricio
Remember the "Amadeus" (Mozart) movie! ;-)
Dushko
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:16:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: "D. Frantz" <dfrantz@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Fan Club Show
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.980821201349.19486A-100000@red.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Sorry if this was discussed already-have been e-mail deprived of
late-is there any recordings of the fan club show the guys did in Europe?
If so, any info of how and where to get it would be momentously
appreciated. Thanx in advance!
-Frantz-
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:42:36 -0600
From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Burying the hatchet in Van Halen (Sorry, Ed)
Message-ID: <004401bdcd6e$4bcf10c0$1e0d84d0@korgx3>
>as meaning something different. However this post is more along the lines
>of what you thought I was writing before, so you win. :)
All I'm trying to say is that Ed and Steve are different guitarists and it's
about as fair to compare them as guitarists as it is to compare Dustin
Hoffman and Al Paccino as actors. They work on different levels and are
both extraordinary. I will agree that Steve is a more technically
proficient guitar player. i agree that Steve's compositions are more
complicated than Ed's. Yet just because Steve's writings are more involved
doesn't make Ed's any less intriguing. It's a Cache 22. You're arguing
about mechanics while I'm off whining about how the envelope sealant from my
telephone company tastes so yucky.
As far as Ed's solo goes. I'm sure plenty of people can play Ed's stuff.
But Ed played it first. I really don't give a shit if anyone else can play
his stuff, really. They oughtta be working on developing their own style
instead. :P Accept no imitations! No one can be as good as the original.
"I can't believe it's not butter!"
Fuck you Fabio.
-- KorgX3------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 98 16:14:36 -0700 From: "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: EVH again Message-ID: <199808220201.TAA27038@mailsun2.us.oracle.com>
Andrew Forcier writes: >>Ed's solo in, for example, the "Live Without a Net" video. There wasn't a >>guitarist then or now who could play like that (except Ed). > >Whoa! This is a very baseless claim. That video was from what, 1986-87?
Yes. And..? I'm a huge guitar fan. I love Vai, Satch, Malmsteen, and hundreds of others. I am telling you right now that no one could play that solo AND SOUND LIKE EDDIE. This is a somewhat pointless debate, as one could argue that no guitarist could EXACTLY imitate another. However, I feel that it would be much harder to come CLOSE to imitating Eddie than it would be to imitating, say, Vai.
Why is this? I think it is because Vai's style is the carefully-honed style of many hours of daily practive. Petrucci sounds A LOT like Vai while playing fast runs. So do many other guitarists who have invested a lot of time practicing their picking. Satch sounds A LOT like Vai when playing legato passages.
Eddie has a really unorthodox style that is probably the result of him "noodling" around for hours on end as opposed to having structured practice sessions.. It is much harder to reproduce guitar playing like this. When a fast solo is not straight 32nd notes, but a slew of 11 or 17 notes scattered across the beat, imitation is much harder..
>seen that video, then you've seen Eddie's solo for the last ten years
Agreed.
>any question the Vai is a superior guitarist to Eddie
In speed and technique - YES! I said Eddie was "inimitable" - and I stand by that.
>Eddie was saddled with the moniker of King and has a legion of fans who >refuse to believe he is anything else. They defend his albums with little >concept of what others are speaking about, they just pump out facile >retributions.
This is true for some people. I call it as I see it, and I stand by my statements.
>Ed may write a lot of the music, but not ALL.
Ed writes the vast majority of the music. The singer's contribution in VH is largely lyrics and vocal melodies (which is admittedly part of the music). Also, most of the music in the past has been written before lyrics have been added, making it almost completely Eddie's work. There's no question that there are stylistic differences in DLR/Sam/Gary years. Whether that is Ed's conscious decision is anybody's guess...
>If you put Year to the Day or Josephina on at any frat >party, you'd be hard pressed to keep your guests around.
I agree, and I'd call that a compliment.. (This is not blind frat-bashing, I was in one in college).
later, -Neil.
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Date: 21 Aug 98 15:29:32 -0700 From: "Neil Evans" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Eddie/Randy Message-ID: <199808220209.TAA29105@mailsun2.us.oracle.com>
Steve Z wrote: >Ain't no way Eddie was or ever will be better than Randy Rhoads.
Steve, do you have any of Randy's work on video? I'd love to check out some of his live playing to compare to Eddie's. I have all the Ozzy albums and the Quiet Riot Randy Rhoads years, as well as a shitload of VH stuff. I've been playing guitar for 15 years and in my opinion Eddie is the better player - I'm talking about technique + feel = performance (not counting songwriting, although I prefer VH there as well).
I'd love to trade for a RR video and take a closer look...
btw, I am quite aware that this is all personal opinion but I'd still love to check out RR on vid... anyone? Bueller?
Finally, to add a little DTC here, I think Petrucci is unquestionably the guitarist of the 90s (and hopefully beyond). Technique, style, songwriting, melody (listen to his melodies on AoI and LTE!), and a great attitude. You can't beat that.
later, -Neil.
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:12:47 -0400 From: "Thomas Forcier" <thomas.o.forcier@worldnet.att.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Quiet Riot Message-ID: <19980822021142.PXNM14840@239157822worldnet.att.net>
Hello, Joe D. said:
>OK. I feel stupid asking this, but here goes...... >Randy Rhoads was in Quiet Riot?
Don't feel stupid. I didn't know this either until I read it on the Jam. Randy was one of the original members of QR, and there is only one CD available (re-released a couple years ago) where you can hear some of their demo material. He left to join Ozzy, then QR got signed after that. At least I think that's the chronology...
Andrew
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:32:54 EDT From: Ibanez506@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4214 Message-ID: <63c9ff96.35de2dd7@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-08-21 18:01:16 EDT, you write:
<< if they got dropped cuz 10K wasn't enough, 11K is probably not gonna make much difference to the record company execs. i think. >> I was just throwing out numbers I guess I should have used better ones. Sorry 'bout that, anyway you get the jist of what I'm saying. Also I would like to say that I don't have a problem with used cd stores or people buying used cds, really my only point was that its hard for new non-mainstream music to sell so the more units the record company sees go off the shelves the better. Especially for those of us who hate all the curent crap being shoved down our throats these days. ok I'm done rambling, Juli
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:32:31 EDT From: AEllis1222@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com, jdeangelo@home.com Subject: re: Randy Rhoads Message-ID: <66349bdb.35de2dc0@aol.com>
<<<OK. I feel stupid asking this, but here goes...... Randy Rhoads was in Quiet Riot?
- Joe D. >>>
Yeah, Randy was the founder of Quiet Riot, he released 2 albums in japan with them (QR "I" and "II"). A lot of the songs were "re-worked" and remastered for Quiet Riot's 1993 (or 4) release "The Randy Rhoads Years"
Art www.joestump.com
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:43:59 -0600 (MDT) From: TEDESCO MATTHEW A <Matthew.Tedesco@Colorado.EDU> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Van Halen/Angra/Fish/Savatage Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980821203827.8626A-100000@ucsub.Colorado.EDU>
Hey, any chance of getting reviews of Angra's "Fireworks" now that some people seem to have it? Also, if anyone can find a decent website to order it, I'd bet a lot of people would be happy. I had heard that this album might have a domestic release (U.S.)--any truth there?
Also, with all this talk of Eddie VH and how he compares to other guitarists, let me add, Michael Anthony is a worthless lump as a bassist.
Lastly, local CD store has both 'Tage's "Wake of Magellan" and Fish's "Sunsets on Empire." Could anyone send my private recommendations or warnings about these two titles? tedescom@colorado.edu will work fine.
Thanks, MATt
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:58:05 -0400 From: Michael Pomerleau <mpomerle@mail1.nai.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Derek Eruption - BRING IT BACK!!! Message-ID: <4.0.1.19980821223720.00f9dc80@pop1.nai.net>
At 09:41 AM 8/21/98 -0700, you wrote: > > at one tome I played the 32 note excerpt of eruption during the awake tour >for a few shows, then my friend Al Pitrelli told me that it was tacky so I >stopped. Derek >
Derek,
That SOLO kicked ASS!!!! I had heard you playing it during the early parts of the Awake Tour - and it blew me away. That was a GREAT interpretation of the original. You also used to mix in some of the Petrucci Solo from Caught in a WEB.
The first time I heard it, I remember the guy standing next to me, asked me what it was (he recognized it, but couldnt place it), when I told him - he flipped out. I used to bring in a Bootleg Video that has you playing it to work to show people.
It would be tacky to play that on the Guitar, but not on the Keys for the following reasons. One, it is sorta a tribute to VH who you constantly list as an influence. Second, it is a completely different instrument, and that makes it unique. When Steve Vai played Eruption while on Tour with DLR - that was tacky!! (No Flames - I am a huge SV fan), but your playing it on the Keys is TOO COOL!!!!
The only thing that could make that solo better, would be for you to do all of eruption. PLEASE BRING IT BACK!!!!
Anyways, why would a guy with white shaggy carpet, lava lamps, and 70's clothing on stage worry about being tacky!!!!! :)
Regards,
Michael Pomerleau E-mail: (Home) mpomerle@ct1.nai.net (Work) michael_pomerleau@adc.com Visit My Home Page at http://w3.nai.net/~mpomerle
"If a President of the United States ever lied to the American people, he should resign." - Bill Clinton July, 1974
"No question that an admission of making false statements to government officials and interfering with the FBI is an impeachable offense." - Bill Clinton, ARKANSAS GAZETTE August 8, 1974; page 7-A
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:22:18 -0600 From: Juan Francisco Quintero <jfqc@nl1.telmex.net.mx> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: TOP 15 Progressive Bands Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980821222218.0079d330@nl1.telmex.net.mx>
Hi!
Why don't we start a poll of the best progressive metal bands from 1990 until now. Here is my selection:
1.- Dream Theater 2.- LTE 3.- Enchant 4.- Fates Warning 5.- Queensryche 6.- Shadow Gallery 7.- The Quiet Room 8.- Lemur Voice 9.- Superior 10.- Royal Hunt 11.- King's X 12.- Threshold 13.- Empty Tremors 14.- Eternity X 15.- Soul Cages
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:36:36 -0500 From: hellion <hellion@busprod.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4203 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980821223636.007a5950@mail.busprod.com>
>At least I'm not flaming it "just because". I really don't like FII. >There ARE good moments and there ARE worse albums (I happen to have the >world's worst in my collection...), I know. But *I* think that, let's >say, Majesty's "InstruMental" has more charm and "fire" than FII, which >fully compensates the worthless sound and overplaying. Definitely more >fun to listen to than PARTS of FII.
I definatly agree with this. It's almost exactly how I feel about FII. The only tracks I listen to are ANM, JLB, and LITS. I absolutely hate "You Not Me", "Hollow Years", "Take Away My Pain", and "Anna Lee."
BMS, PS, HK, and TOT are just so-so... Overall, I really only LIKE three of the tracks on FII. On the other hand, I *love* LTE. I'm hoping that all these fantastic side projects (LTE, Platypus, Explorers Club) will ignite the laden progressive tendencies within Dream Theater. BTW: I recognize that music is subjective so this is just my opinion of FII.
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:47:40 -0500 From: hellion <hellion@busprod.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4203 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980821224740.007a7240@mail.busprod.com>
> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:44:55 -0400 > From: Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com> > Subject: simpsons/zappa
My first reccomendation is NOT to start with Sheik Yerbouti. That's what I did and I was turned off. It took a while for me to get into Zappa. When I bought Hot Rats I knew I was in for a treat. Other excellent one to start with is 'Over Nite Sensation'/'Apostrophe'. I believe the two come together on a Ryko release of ONS. Other excellent albums are Joes' Garage, Man From Utopia (Steve Vai on Guitar on this one as well), and 'Have I Offended Someone'--the latter features a kick ass live version of 'Dumb All Over'--featuring an extended outro that is absolutely mindbending. FZ's band is really, really tight.
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:45:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4214 Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980821233633.106134A-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote: > > ok so I guess I'm a little partial but.. think of this scenario a > > band gets signed they put out a disc it sell say 10,000 copies and > > then say 1,000 are old to a store and then bought again. Now thet > > is technicly 11,000 copies sold but the record company sees it as > > 10,000.
Technically only 10,000 units have been sold, since those extra one sales were of existing copies. You'd be more right in saying there were 11,000 purchases of 10,000 CDs. As for whether it is right or not to buy used CDs, I say it totally rocks. Not just because the prices are cheaper, but because it serves as a great way to be introduced to a band you've always been curious about. A great example for me is Journey. I bought their GH album and quickly became a fan. I then bought every release (with Steve Perry at the helm) at retail prices, including their two new ones, which probably would never have happened otherwise. Another plus for used CD stores is the access to currently out-of-print albums. These places are gold mines for the obscure. Richie
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:07:02 -0500 From: hellion <hellion@busprod.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Prog CDs For Sale Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980821230702.007dbb50@mail.busprod.com>
king crimson - thrakattack : $13 fates warning - perfect symmetry : $10 deep purple - when we rock, we rock : $10 deep purple - perfect strangers : $10 kansas - leftoverture (fetr: carry on wayward son) : $10
dream theater - dream out loud--will trade for other dt 1disc bootleg. this boot features james singing 'Status Seeker' as well as a live version of 'To Live Forever' with a drum solo. Pretty decent packaging with lots of photos and a band history. (Kiss The Stone bootleg)
If interested in buying the used cds or trading for the DT boot send me e-mail. Thanks,
hl
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:13:01 -0500 From: hellion <hellion@busprod.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mike Bahr Owes CDs Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980821231301.007dbbf0@mail.busprod.com>
> Yeah I know some more about him. He is a guy that owes me 4 CDs (or >it is 3?) and won't answer e-mail I send to him. Hey Mike, I know my >computer is configured right maybe yours is to blame. Or do you just >ignore my mail?
I felt the same as you just a couple months ago. I sent Mike Bahr an order in December 1997 and I didn't get it until this August, 1998. For awhile I thought it might have been a rip-off cause I had never ordered from Mike before. When I got my CD's it was apparant that he was swamped with orders and had a back-log. I too sent Mike an e-mail notice about my CDs but didn't get a response. I imagine he gets a lot of those kind of e-mails. I would advise that you wait a bit longer. Has it been 8 months yet? It took me 8 months to get my 4 CDs. ;-|
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:14:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Mauricio Martinez Villarreal <al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Kevin Moore's Interview Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.980821231343.77792A-100000@academ07.mty.itesm.mx>
Sorry if someone said this already.....but, where can i find the complete transcription of that interview?
thanks, Mauricio
On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Arash Ashouriha wrote:
> > Hi there > > Here is an excerpt from the Kevin Moore interview in Metal Hammer (Germany) : > Sorry for my bad english but I think you should read this : > > <<<<< > > I was in Dream Theater for 8 years. At the end there wasn't any musical chalange > for me. This kind of music begann to boring me. Everyone was just trying to > hold eveything on the top technical level. When we had a good idea which > wasn't that complex but good anyway, it has been distroerd with inserting some > very technical and complex solo parts. > >>>>> > > What do you say now ? > The fact that FII isn't that complex has nothing to do with Derek and that Kevin > is not longer in the band. > > I've read an articel back in 1995 when Kevin said : I don't want to do progressive > metal anymore. I'm tired doing complex and technical music. > > NP : Dream Theater - Falling Into Infinity (Hell's Kitchen kicks ass) > > Arash > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | > | | > | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | > | | > | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ | > |--------------------------------------------------------------------------| > | The Eyes Of Universe - The Official EMPTY TREMOR Fan Club Site | > | | > | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1794/ | > | | > | by Arash and Arman Ashouriha email: ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de | > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >
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Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:36:23 EDT From: Inflammabl@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Response to Korg's post on VH Message-ID: <54f846e1.35de4ac8@aol.com>
Korg Wrote:
As for Van Halen, you guys need a reality check. I liked VH3 from the first listen. Parts of it take me back to when the band was in their early era. To me, VH3 actually sounds fun. ** Yes it does, but it doesn't seem IMHO to have a strong musical direction. They had that with Sammy.. and they lost it when he left. Now, don't get me wrong.. I like Gary.. In fact I'm a HUGE Extreme fan, but I really see a HUGE Nuno influence on what they have been playing on VHIII***** It may not be a colorful production-wise, but it's loose. I like that. The guys are just chillin' by the pool with a 40 in one hand and a handful of nadz in the other. ** Um, they shouldn't; Eddie is an alcoholic who had to get help around the time of F.U.C.K. because he was out of control** Yes, Gary helped write the songs. At least some of them. They never list the true credits in the albums. They just say "all songs by Van Halen." If you listen to the Sammy Era stuff, there's alot of Sammy sounding songs. Same with the Roth stuff. How much do you think DLR contributed to VH in the early years? **Yes, that's why they were a "party-music" band at the time.** I would estimate alot. He came out of Van Halen with a couple of succesful solo albums. Much of which sounded like older VH stuff, while suddenly when Sammy dives in, BAM! Instant rehashed Sammy shit with a few rehashed old VH songs mixed in. ** It really sucked that Sammy had such a bad attitude about playing the "old" stuff.. In fact, if he didn't have such a bad attitude about it, I think that Sammy could still be in VH. I think Eddie works close with the singer to not only produce what they're comfortable with, but to get a clear vibe as to what they would like to work with. Nuno wrote most of the stuff with Extreme as far as I know, so we've never really had a shot at hearing what Gary's all about. I think VH3 was what you get. If you don't like it, too bad, I love it. ** They have a lot of potential with Gary at lead, but he definately hasn't shown his true ability. I don't think that he opened up his vocal chords at all**
You can't honestly tell me you don't hear the difference between 1984 and 5150. It's WAAAAY too fucking obvious. Eddie obviously changed styles cuz he was co-writing with the singers. End of story. What the hell am I talking about. It's time for bed. Mosh. Mosh. Where's my crackpipe, bitch ... Ahgggg. :P ** The crackpipes at my place, come on by... Eddie's over here smoking it with me and drinkin' 40's! *** -- KorgX3
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4216 **************************
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