YTSEJAM Digest 4476
Today's Topics:
1) re: 90's guitarists
by AEllis1222@aol.com
2) guitar multiFX (NDTC)
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
3) tribute disc?
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
4) Tribute Disc
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
5) Hoon/Drugs/Suicide
by Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU>
6) Gabriel Era Genesis
by "Kevin A. Loechner" <loechner@eecs.tulane.edu>
7) Guitarists, Vibrato, and verisimilitude
by "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
8) Re: Rollerball and Yngwie
by "=?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Del_Nunzio?=" <malmsteen@sti.com.br>
9) Re: offtopic, but important
by "Computer Jim DTFOTL" <jpepe@typhoon.lightning.net>
10) Guitarists suck.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
11) Ya ya ya, some people SHEESH
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
12) vibrato
by djhutch@siu.edu
13) Source of "Eugene's Trick Bag" from Crossroads
by Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net>
14) More Vibrato from the VIBRATO KING (not even a smidgen of DTC)
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
15) re: genesis
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
16) re: ron thal
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:31:32 EST
From: AEllis1222@aol.com
To: bhansen10@yahoo.com, ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: re: 90's guitarists
Message-ID: <b3130650.36674984@aol.com>
<<So from the 90's guitar suggestions, the following discs seem to be
available from CDNOW. If I were to pick up just one of these, which
should it be?:>>
As for Joe Stump, pick up "Supersonic Shred Machine". You will not be
disappointed. If you wish to check him out, I've got some mp3's and real
audio files on my site www.joestump.com I suggest you download the
"Demon's Eye" MP3, and listen to the crazy sweep picking about 2/3 through the
song, it's AMAZING.
~~Art
webmiester
www.joestump.com
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:41:28 -0600 (CST)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: guitar multiFX (NDTC)
Message-ID: <1998123212737541@ix.netcom.com>
Hi, I am thinking of getting a new multi effects processor, and I wanted to know
which one is pretty god for a resonable price. I have been recomended the Rocktron
Multi Valve and Midimate control pedal. The features that I liked were the ability to
connect it to the amps channel out and being able to control the amps channels with
MIdimate, and programmed within the patches. Also, the way it converts the digital
signal into analog so it doesnt suck out the amps tone in the effects loop. Ive
also heard of the TC Electronics G Force, and was wondering if that was any better
while providing the same features I mentioned above, or any other multi's that are
better than the Rocktron unit. Thanks
Matt
=====================================================
"A daily dose of eMpTyV "Following our instinct
will flush your mind not a trend. Go against
right down the drain." the grain until the end."
-Dream Theater -Metallica
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 19:41:47 PST
From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: tribute disc?
Message-ID: <19981204034147.4979.qmail@hotmail.com>
okay, i was never part of that madness, so I'm probably out of line
here, but I don't think the ytsejam is the best place to ask for advice
about how to run a fan tribute album.....
hear tell the Kansas, Gentle Giant and Toad the Wet Sprocket lists have
had more success.....apparently by having entire bands record songs
rather than having individual fight over who gets to play which
individual part.......
partha
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 02:12:27 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Tribute Disc
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02.9812040211420.15837-100000@jaca>
On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Partha Mukhopadhyay wrote:
> okay, i was never part of that madness, so I'm probably out of line
> here, but I don't think the ytsejam is the best place to ask for advice
> about how to run a fan tribute album.....
>
> hear tell the Kansas, Gentle Giant and Toad the Wet Sprocket lists have
> had more success.....apparently by having entire bands record songs
> rather than having individual fight over who gets to play which
> individual part.......
Perhaps you people might want to check out the following homepage,
written by Peter: <http://www.glasnet.ru/~tatisch/Ytze>.
Hope this helps, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 23:50:29 -0500 From: Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU> To: ytsejam@axnet.net, 70mastrian@cua.edu Subject: Hoon/Drugs/Suicide Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981203235029.007c2bd0@pop.gl.umbc.edu>
Ok, here's the deal:
I think the debate about whether or not DT is IMPLYING that Hoon commited suicide or not is a senseless one. The harsh reality is that PEOPLE WHO DIE OF DRUG OVERDOSES _ARE_ COMMITTING SUICIDE!!! No one forces the syringe to their veins or the crackpipe to their faces. A drug overdose is a death that is caused by lack of respect for one's self or carelessness with one's body. If a person is going to introduce that kind of risk to his health, it is very much the same as putting the gun in his mouth and WAITING for the trigger to be pulled.
If anyone who reads this has lost a friend due to drug overdose and is offended by this, I am sorry you are offended, but I stand by my statement.
Steve Z
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:55:06 -0600 (CST) From: "Kevin A. Loechner" <loechner@eecs.tulane.edu> To: The Ytsejam <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Gabriel Era Genesis Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981203225143.13705E-100000@pegasus>
I got into early Genesis last year since I had heard so much about it. So at the end of last school year I went down to the Virgin Megastore here in New Orleans and picked up "Selling England By the Pound". I would highly reccommend this album to anyone looking to get into some Gabriel-era Genesis. Earlier this semester I bought "Nursery Cryme", also an excellent album. I have also heard reccommendations for "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", "Tresspass", and "Trick of the Tail" (which does not include Gabriel, but is supposed to be very good prog).
-Kevin
--------------------------------------------- -- Kevin A. Loechner -- -- Department of Electrical Engineering -- -- and Computer Science, Tulane University -- -- loechner@eecs.tulane.edu -- -- http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kloechn -- ---------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:57:13 -0600 From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Guitarists, Vibrato, and verisimilitude Message-ID: <001401be1f42$8fe7fa80$ea739c83@7979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
>So from the 90's guitar suggestions, the following discs seem to be >available from CDNOW. If I were to pick up just one of these, which >should it be?: > >Ron Thal - Adventures Of Bumblefoot, Hermit >Joe Stump - Guitar Dominance, Rapid Fire Rondo, Supersonic
Okay... this requires a SERIOUS exercise in open mind, because Thal spans the realm of styles on each of his albums. The answer to your question is simply Hermit. The other albums are good. Bumblefoot is even GREAT. Stump is one of the technical freaking MASTERS of neoclassical. I would put him in the highest pinnacle of shred technique in that genre. That having been said, there aren't more than a handful of players who are as unique and fascinating in every aspect as Thal. Stump is not one of them. He's great, but you've heard his style already. Thal mixes the realms of shred and jazz and classical and funk. He creates serialized 12 tone lines and turns them into crazy-ass tapping licks. He uses a thimble to get high notes beyond dog-hearing range. He can do anything picking related. He is a supreme master of the unheard of note choice. I can kiss his ass all night, or you can take my word for it... he's a bizarre and amazing technical and soulful player. As much emotion and creativity (and humor) as there is style and technique. Many people I know didn't like him on the first listen. If you're a guitarist, try learning one of his solos. When you see what he's doing, you'll be shocked and amazed. It's just so weird, and it's still immaculately perfect in execution, unlike some other weird players. Hermit is the better album, IMO because it's vocal oriented, and you can see how his soloing works in the context of a real song. Bumblefoot has drum machine and for the most part, no lyrics. It's a hard decision, but I'd vote Hermit. Stump is cool... but Thal is a new level. Just beyond.
>From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
>>So, in conclusion, to achieve the wacky vibrato of the gods...BUY A >>JEM. Or do the practical thing and PRACTICE! :^) > > Damn, I said I wasn't going to start posting again and here I go. I >was hoping this would turn into a discussion since it's something I've been >putting a lot of work into lately. I don't have much to offer in the way of >advice but I will say that the above is not really true. A lot of Vai and JP's >really amazing vibrato is not done with the bar. There were several places in >the new DT video where I was looking to see which JP used on certain notes and >I was amazed to find that most of those wide-vibratoed notes are done with >his left hand and not the bar. And Zakk Wylde gets absolutely insane vibrato >on a Les Paul.
Amazing. Clark, we gotta hang, bro. That's exactly what I was gonna post. Vai uses whammy for vibrato only on occasion. Wylde has HUGE finger vibrato, and rarely used the bar. JP never uses the bar on anything I'd call vibrato. Don't get used to using a bar as a crutch. It takes soul out of your playing, especially when you need to play a guitar without a floating trem. I blocked off the trem in my 7 string about 2 years ago, and as a result, I now have a TON of control over my vibrato. I can get almost any vibrato sound I want, except for that circular vibrato, which is just not my bag, I guess.
>this since this has helped for me. Being rhythmic with vibrato is very >important, obviously there are infinite different ways to approach that concept >but it sounds a lot better when the pulse of the vibrato is in some way >connected to the beat of the music.
Wow... this is eerie. I was also going to say watch the subdivisions. The biggest vibrato problems I see with people (I teach guitar... I don't mean to sound like Joe-Pro... I just see a lot of vibrato attempts) are 1). That Angus Young nervous gerbil sounding vibrato which only Angus and Morse can make sound good, and 2). Not enough control over the speed and range of the vibrato. Vibrato should have a purpose. It should accentuate a phrase. You don't put a fast vibrato on something that calls for a slow vibrato. You don't put a shallow bend vibrato on something that needs a huge Zakk Wylde 1 and a 1/2 step vibrato bend. You have to become comfortable with every range of your potential vibrato so you can do what best fits what you're trying to say. Thal and Becker are marvelous at vibrato with both the bar and their fingers.
> What I'm interested in hearing are the specific techniques that other >people use for this; which fingers, where the rest of your hand is on the neck, >up-and-down or side-to-side, etc. I've been experimenting with a variety of >techniques and trying not to get too locked into any one. There was another >thing in that collection of Vai articles that talked about the circular >method, but I can't figure out what he's talking about with that since if you >do it the way he describes it, you raise the pitch three quarters of the time >and only lower it one quarter of the time.
You're going to run into times where you need to use any of your fingers for vibrato, so you might as well work on them all, wouldn't you say? For any of my vibrato styles, I always keep my thumb behind the neck, in normal position. Not locked... relaxed. Any possible free fingers are added for extra strength in standard vibrato. That means if I'm shaking on my ring finger, my index and middle fingers are in a row right behind the ring finger, adding to my ability to vibrate the note off the neck if I want to. With this method I can get a whammy-esque 2 whole step vibrato on .010's. For jazz stuff, I use classical vibrato (up and down). The Vai-brato is just a cross between side to side and up and down vibrato. It's hard to keep the circles even. Watch the For the Love of God video for an excellent shot of this in action. It almost looks naughty.
> Also, as far as the quote at the top of this post goes, I know it's >nit-picking but the low-pro edge is on a lot of mid-to-high end Ibanezes, not >just the Jem.
And it's a piece of shit, IMO.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 02:52:58 -0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Del_Nunzio?=" <malmsteen@sti.com.br> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Rollerball and Yngwie Message-ID: <000601be1f41$f8629c60$4064a8c0@malmsteen>
>So speaking of movies, I'm sure that you all know the classic movie >"Rollerball"?
I don't know,hehe...
> There's a part of the movie with some slow music played >with strings (it's credited name is "Adagio", but no composer listed). >This little section also happens to be the slow part that Yngwie plays >in "Icarus Dream Suite" on the "Rising Force" album.
The intro of "Icarus Dream Suite" is Tomaso Albinoni's Adagio in G Minor...Tomaso Albinoni is an Italian baroque composer who lived between 1671 - 1751...He is one of Yngwie favorite composers (you can see in some "thanks list" of his albums his name) and is a composer that I like very much too...
Mario
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:50:24 -0000 From: "Computer Jim DTFOTL" <jpepe@typhoon.lightning.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: offtopic, but important Message-ID: <002701be1f20$14b9fba0$69b533d1@i9web>
>because I have the opportunity to buy one for $400 plus shipping and it >just needs to be recalibrated, a.k.a. tuned. Should I go for this? Think >Tom Sawyer and Jump. This is the keyboard. What do you all think.
Every keyboard I've ever looked at usually has a little analog control for that... It will be on the bottom of the keyboard, and you turn a screw in a recessed hole...
I'd be interested in knowing when you find out... I'd like to add it to my knowledge base =) Thanks!
Jim
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:10:16 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Guitarists suck. Message-ID: <001a01be1f4c$d1268250$3c0d84d0@korgx3>
>note choice. I can kiss his ass all night, or you can take my word for >it... he's a bizarre and amazing technical and soulful player. As much >emotion and creativity (and humor) as there is style and technique.
I'll agree with Chris here. Thal is great, and I've only heard him over iparty! :) I'd spaced getting an album until this came up. That "pebble in my pants" (wasn't it?) song has to get perma-play in my CD player so CDNow just made another $15 off of me. :P
>post. Vai uses whammy for vibrato only on occasion. Wylde has HUGE finger >vibrato, and rarely used the bar. JP never uses the bar on anything I'd >call vibrato. Don't get used to using a bar as a crutch. It takes soul
Chicks take Zack home all the time for this, too. "Look ma! No batteries!"
>>nit-picking but the low-pro edge is on a lot of mid-to-high end Ibanezes, > And it's a piece of shit, IMO.
Oh no, not again! :) Fuck trems. I'll just stick to my acoustic and let you distortashredders hammer this out again.
Get N or get out. -- KorgX3 is shaking a pebble down his pantleg.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 23:15:35 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Ya ya ya, some people SHEESH Message-ID: <36677E07.48A5631B@imap1.asu.edu>
CLARK ABEL wrote: > >So, in conclusion, to achieve the wacky vibrato of the gods...BUY A > >JEM. Or do the practical thing and PRACTICE! :^)
Wooha! I wrote that! :) > A lot of Vai and JP's > really amazing vibrato is not done with the bar. There were several places in > the new DT video where I was looking to see which JP used on certain notes and > I was amazed to find that most of those wide-vibratoed notes are done with > his left hand and not the bar. And Zakk Wylde gets absolutely insane vibrato > on a Les Paul.
Nah, for the total SERIOUS guitar player 8^| you don't *need* a floating trem at all. Personally, I enjoy the freedom the wang bar gives me (mind you a GOOD one...this piece of shit Low TRS II trem is absolute clanging crap and the only thing it's good for these days is to get a wicked sonic ping sound like i'm in a submarine or something when i twist the bar around and around...where was i....) And I KNOW Vai and JP take advantage of this freedom to pull of some cool ass vibrato, along with their flutters and dive bombs. I've seen it wit my own two I-balls!
> As far as how to do it, I have had some luck with the whole Vai thing > about just playing one note for an hour. By no means have I gotten to where > I want to be, but I would suggest turning a drum machine on while practicing > this since this has helped for me.
Pop in some Kenny G and just groove on that one note masterpiece with your guitar.
> What I'm interested in hearing are the specific techniques that other > people use for this; which fingers, where the rest of your hand is on the neck, > up-and-down or side-to-side, etc.
I use the manboob technique. And after that gets sore (nipple vibrato...OUCH!) I'll try to use whatever gives the nicest soothingist or wackiest...whatever the situation calls for...bend of the string.
I read some BB King articles in Guitar World where he dedicated like an entire 2 months' worth of articles on improving vibrato. It was interesting. It improved my vibrato immensly. I've put my dog to sleep with a simple G# wave coming out of the amp in clean tone. And you think I want to share that secret and let the cat out of the bag? HELL NO! I'M BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU! BWAHAHAHAHA!
(Translation: Eckie uses the left-underhand up-down, slightly circular motion for the soft shit, and right hand pounding for the 4-step splooging stuff)
But vibrato is probably the most important technique in subtlety you could practice and master on the guitar. Alex Skolnick likes to hold out the note out for a little while before bending the string around and around to keep the sustain nice and purty.
> Also, as far as the quote at the top of this post goes, I know it's > nit-picking but the low-pro edge is on a lot of mid-to-high end Ibanezes, not > just the Jem.
Well, yeah, they've pretty much implimented the Edge as like a standard trem system for all the RGs (Damn those new RGs look niiiiiiice!) and S series above the $500 mark, along with the Universes and RG 7 strings (must...own...one....). But none of them have scalloped frets! HA! STICK THAT IN YER PIPE AN' SMOKE IT!
~Eckie just spent 6 hours drawing naked men, cut him some slack here people!
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Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:53:25 -0600 From: djhutch@siu.edu To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: vibrato Message-ID: <l03110700b28d3690ecc1@[131.230.206.135]>
i've always had good luck with keeping the knuckle of my left-hand index finger on the bottom of the neck and using a hinge-like motion to create the vibrato. as far as which fingers to use, my ring finger is the strongest so thats the one i try to use most often.
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 01:54:57 -0600 From: Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Source of "Eugene's Trick Bag" from Crossroads Message-ID: <36679551.2D5E@auburn.net>
According to the April, 1989, issue of Guitar School:
"Things look pretty grim for Eugene and Willie, but Lightning Boy gets his mojo workin' and treats us to 'Eugene's Trick Bag.' After getting everyone's attention with an uninterrupted slur he falls back on his classical training and goes into a series of arpeggios: Am - E7 - A7 - Dm - G#dim7 - Am. This and the next section are Steve Vai's rendition of a composition by classical guitarist William Kanengiser that Eugene played (actually, William played and arranged all the classical guitar parts) earlier in the movie."
Take that for what it's worth.
Oh yeah - if you can do it, go see Division and Enertia. I have a recording Enertia made before they got signed (if they got signed, I dunno if they ever did). Tape swap participants that were paired with me may remember a tune called "If I Were You" that rocked all kinds of ass. And Division's pretty good, too :)
Take care, Mark Peters swifty@auburn.net
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 00:58:25 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: More Vibrato from the VIBRATO KING (not even a smidgen of DTC) Message-ID: <36679621.A1600280@imap1.asu.edu>
no, don't ask me for sound clips of me playing >:)
The indubidubbadubbadubbably awesome Christopher Ptacek smitted me with a voracious appetite for blood and proof of superior penis length and testicular volume:
> Don't get used to using a bar as a crutch. It takes soul out > of your playing, especially when you need to play a guitar without a > floating trem.
I've witnessed you argue this time and time again and I still don't connect with you on this one.... It's as absurd as saying, "NO NO NO! **BAD** guitarist! Don't plug that guitar in! *thwap hands with ruler* Don't EVER do that, you won't learn how to play with soul! And worse than that, you won't know how to play a guitar without an amplifier!"
Please. :P
Then regarding the already discussed LoPro Edge....
> And it's a piece of shit, IMO.
I've played on a good many different guitars, not nearly as many as you or others on this list have I'm sure, but of all the trem systems I've seen and played with, the lo Pro Edge that Ibanez is slapping on the new RGs and such just kicks mucho ass compared to the Low TRS II trems, most any Jackson guitar I've played with a floating trem (except this really sweet $3000 custom), and heheheh, any FENDER TREMELO BWAHAHAHAHA!
So if ya know of anything finer than the LoPro Edge-o-niner, i'd like to get some comments. I'm thinking of swapping the TRS in my RG for something that works the way i want it to 8^P. No more clickedy clack, clickedy clack....
~Eckedy Eck, Eckedy Eck, Eckedy Eck....
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 00:31:42 PST From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: re: genesis Message-ID: <19981204083143.838.qmail@hotmail.com>
anything by genesis before '74.. my personal favoarate is "selling enland by the pound" AMAZING ALBUM!!!! by king crimson get "lizard", "larks toungs in aspic", or "in the wake of poseodin".. i like pretty much everything KC did but any of those three are GREAT to start out with for some classic prog!
>I recently picked up the Genesis album "Trespass" on vinyl at a >record show the other day on a whim (along with King Crimson's >"Discipline"). And as I listened to it, I noticed that it was VERY >proggy (a la ELP, Yes) lots of flutes, dulcimers, cellos, 12 strings, >etc. Peter Gabriel's singing is also excellent. "And on the 2nd day I >said, "IT IS GOOD"". Does anyone know if this was their first album? >Do they have any other albums with this sound? > >Josh S.
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Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 00:37:23 PST From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: re: ron thal Message-ID: <19981204083723.2625.qmail@hotmail.com>
BUMBLEFOOT!!!!!!!! I don't know how to convey my enthusiam reguarding that album!!! he's obviously a frank zappa clone, but his music is very guitar focused as opposed to zappa's orchestral nature.. bumblefoot kicks ass!
>So from the 90's guitar suggestions, the following discs seem to be >available from CDNOW. If I were to pick up just one of these, which >should it be?: > >Ron Thal - Adventures Of Bumblefoot, Hermit > >Joe Stump - Guitar Dominance, Rapid Fire Rondo, Supersonic
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4476 **************************
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