YTSEJAM Digest 4499
Today's Topics:
1) Re: ARGH.
by Uroborosss@aol.com
2) More Madsman Madness!!
by Uroborosss@aol.com
3) Re: John Williams
by "Simon Christie" <simon@guitar-studio.purplenet.co.uk>
4) Star Wars Fantasy
by "Simon Christie" <simon@guitar-studio.purplenet.co.uk>
5) Re: Chord identification (Music Theory discussion) (NDTC)
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
6) prog-o-rama 19 dec
by "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" <d94-mry@nada.kth.se>
7) Re: Conan/Leno
by Matt Smith <ktulu@arches.uga.edu>
8) Re: Star Wars Fantasy
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
9) Blah Blah Blah
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
10) Re: Star Wars Fantasy
by "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4498
by Darth1@aol.com
12) Re: Lucky Man (no ELP reference intended |-)
by Darth1@aol.com
13) Re: Savatage and TSO (NDTC)
by Darth1@aol.com
14) Classic Rock Magazine
by IceQD@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 05:48:27 EST
From: Uroborosss@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: ARGH.
Message-ID: <f53b4c01.36739b7b@aol.com>
> From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
> Subject: ARGH. You think your ear is that good? Step up. :)
>
> That's the final straw. :)
FINAL STROOAAUUWW!! PTACEK RIDING THROUGH!! oops...Metallica not allowed
here...
> People who think they can tell the sound of a 79 Strat through a Marshall
> JCM 800 on a recording apert from the sound of an 82 strat on a JCM 900
> are full of shit, today. Each guitar has its own characteristics, and
> I'LL be DAMNED if many JCM800's sound remotely similar to each other.
There you go with the damnation bit again, damn this, damn that, damn YOU,
damn ME, we're ALL damned if JCM800's sound similar, we're ALL damned if ice
cream stores keep selling SORBET, blah blah DAMN blah DAMN blah blah...
> You can train your ear to do a lot of things. Mine can jump through a
> flaming hoop while identifying scale degrees and harmonic progressions.
My ear can wield a double-pronged light-saber. (For those of you who don't
know what a light-saber is, I just said "NYEAH NYEAH NYEAH!!")
> That's what's called BULLSHIT.
"For violation of the Bullshit Code, I sentence you to bathe in hot, swirling,
liquified cow-manure for one hour every day for the next six months. Your
Bullshit Jacuzzi awaits. Court is adjourned."
> Now, if you want to talk chord recognition, my friend, I study this shit
> at school.
My friend studies analytical geometry at school and he fails miserably. I
tried to teach him a Nuno lick years ago, and to this day he can't play it
even though he's tried studying it from different angles. Chris, what are your
grades in the study of chord progression? Just saying you "study" something
doesn't mean much of anything unless you add how your school evaluates your
skills. For anyone who cares, I'm really good at forming puns based on boats
and edged weapons, and I don't study it at school.
> I challenge you.
("You" being the undefined collective body of people somewhere on the planet
who Chris disagrees with vehemently...) :)
> I would be ELATED to play a couple chords for you. You are more than
> welcome to identify them on the spot without sitting there replaying it over
> and over again and trying to figure it out with your guitar.
The nature of my compact discs allow me to rewind what I hear. If I couldn't
listen a second, third, or twelfth time, I'd never be able to transcribe
anything, or analyze guitar tone, etc. Demanding that someone identify a
single, unrepeated chord position as if it's anything similar to listening to
a cassette or cd is crazy! Lower the bar, dude! Ask him to tell you what color
the paint is on your guitar based just on the sustain of the chords or
something...
> You're not in a position to knock the standards for musical abilities unless
> you think you shine above them. I bet you don't.
Unless he THINKS he shines above them? What about actually BEING ABLE to shine
above them??
> I bet you don't.
I bet you just like to SAY you bet stuff. "I bet I'm DAMNED, DAMNIT!!"
> Playing for a long time has taught me one thing: I don't know SHIT.
So therefore everyone else who has played for a long time ALSO doesn't know
shit? Are you trying to use your own experiences as the standards everyone
else must meet? Or are you just re-stating your humility?
> There is so much I need to learn before I'd even consider myself a
> passable musician.
I've never considered myself "passable" - because I'm constantly aware of what
I don't know.
> Yet, there are quite a few people on this list who learned the solo to UAGM
> and think they've arrived. It's ludicrous. I can't wait to see what gas
station
> these people end up working at.
(1) I agree with the overblown egos appearing after learning one solo.
(2) Working at a gas station has nothing to do with being an able or unable
guitar player. Perhaps you said that as a metaphor for pulling the carpet out
from underneath someone with an inflated ego, but my first reaction to the
"gas station" remark was a big "Fuck you, man." Hi, I have musical chops yet I
work minimum wage. Thus in Chris' eyes I'm less than human. Dude, my guitar
didn't save me from working in a cafeteria dishroom for a year, and being able
to play the UAGM solo didn't automatically make God alter my fate and force me
to work in a dishroom. I've worked some crappy jobs, not because I mistakenly
thought my skills as a guitarist were my keys to wealth and reality knocked me
on my ass, but because I HAD TO WORK. A gas station pays more steadily than me
shopping my skills around as a wedding photographer, and I've done three
weddings this year with another coming on New Year's Eve. If it were full-time
photography, then hip-hip-hooray, but right now I need a day job, which I have
at a bookstore that pays minimum wage. Please don't make references to gas
stations as places only unskilled or self-deluding people work at - the guy
who pumps gas at your local Exxon could have the chops of MICHAEL. ANGELO. If
you're able to support yourself solely through playing and teaching music,
that's great, but what the hell do you mean implying that people who
mistakenly think they're great musicians will end up working at gas stations?
So what if they do? Does that make them "less" than you? And don't tell me
that wasn't what you were implying, because your tone couldn't have been more
condescending, to shredders with big egos OR to gas station attendants.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:24:08 EST
From: Uroborosss@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: More Madsman Madness!!
Message-ID: <4c9220c6.3673a3d8@aol.com>
> From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
> Subject: For me? Why I do declare, Mr. Beaureguarde!
>
> Actually, I'M the arrogant S.O.B. My ears just aren't that good.
> Anyone wanna try and tell me by ear what string gauge I use? I bet ya
> can't. :) There's money in it for you if you can name each string gauge.
:)
Bet, bet, bet. You, sir, have a gambling problem. I think it was Eckie (on
Iparty) whose string-gauge, string-action level, and pick type I named after
hearing him play a few licks. I don't care how horrible you claim your ears
are, I'm here to counter-bet that you CAN tell me by ear what string gauge I
use. That way if you lose, you get money, and if you win, you prove yourself
WRONG. Which would make you DAMNED.
> Look, if you know someone's gear, and are familiar with their work, you
> can usually make a fair guess at what they used. I'll bet you're still wrong
> about half of the time, at least - the studio is a magic thing...
>
> EXACTLY.
Okay, Chris Ptacek just released an emphatic agreement. Can someone send this
to Mark Bredius for installation into the Ytsejam Hall of Fame?
> Do show me where my mighty ego is showing through.
"AHA! So you ADMIT to having a mighty ego, do you??"
"OBJECTION. Leading the witness."
"Sustained."
>> Maybe be someone has better ears than Madsman, maybe not.
>
> Not maybe anything. Definitely. There are probably at least 100 of the
> music majors on this list who outclass me amazingly.
I sure hope you don't mean "music major" like "someone who is majoring in
music." Being a music major doesn't mean a damn thing as far as ears go, and I
will argue that to the death. Singing all the time as a major doesn't
automatically give someone perfect pitch, or perfect control over their voice.
Most of the tenors I've met can't even tell when they're singing sharp. LaBrie
is one singer I can think of who has this exact problem. I can hear he's
sharp, he can't, he studied singing, I haven't. Declaring a major is not tied
in any way to the innate skills of the individual, and for many music majors
no amount of training will ever correct certain flaws in their technique or
EARS, such as an inability to tell one note from another.
> I'm not on top of any hill, except the hill of bullshit that a few jammers
> have been spewing, and I've got a shovel ready to jam it right back down
> their throats. That's the mood I get in during finals week. You no like?
> Get in the trash can, BOYEE!
This paragraph is about as bizarre as suggesting that I bust someone's head
open and start eating their brains right in front of them while they're still
able to see, causing them to instantly throw up and die.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:30:48 -0000
From: "Simon Christie" <simon@guitar-studio.purplenet.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: John Williams
Message-ID: <019001be26ae$abbb5ae0$61b259c3@simon-s-pc>
>>Is this John Williams the same guy from the band called SKY? It is an
>>older band, playing classical music in a most unique way! :) You just
>>gotta here it!!!
>
>I think that is John Williams the classical guitarist, not John
Williams the
>composer. I've been told about that album and have heard that it is
very
>cool....
You think right the two people are completely different. However there
was more than 1 album. I have sky 1, sky 2 and sky 3 (imaginative
titles) and there was also a sky 4 and an album called cadmium. I think
there might have been another as well. The music is pretty good its like
classical music but played on synths guitars basses etc. Oh and the
occasional tuba (listen to "Tuba Smarties"). They did a pretty cool
version of Bach's Toccata in Dm.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:15:12 -0000
From: "Simon Christie" <simon@guitar-studio.purplenet.co.uk>
To: "YTSEJAM" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Star Wars Fantasy
Message-ID: <018d01be26ae$aab05380$61b259c3@simon-s-pc>
How cool would this be:
You're sitting in the cinema watching the new Star Wars film and Jabbas
band are doing a strange little alien number then all of a sudden
through the cinemas amazingly loud high quality speakers comes a bass
pumping surround sound ytsejam from OIAL.
Simon Christie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:34:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Chord identification (Music Theory discussion) (NDTC)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.981213112714.17504A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
> I would be ELATED to play a couple chords for you. You are more than
> welcome to identify them on the spot without sitting there replaying it
> over and over again and trying to figure it out with your guitar.
This is the only thing I don't understand/agree with. Saying that
somebody must identify a chord after only hearing it once is not fair. I
am told by my music theory teacher that I have the best ear that my school
has seen in a long time, and sometimes I can't even identify chords in
context after only hearing them once. For example: Say you were in D
major, and you heard a diminished seventh chord (fully diminished) with a
bass note of E. Depending on where that chord resolved would actually
determine what chord it is, believe it or not. If it resolved back to a D
major chord (probably with F# in the bass), then the dimished chord would
thus be identified as a "seven dimished 6-5" chord. However, if it
resolved to, say, a V or V7 chord, then it would be considered a "two
diminished 7" chord. So if you just played somebody a chord, as you say,
then you couldn't POSSIBLY expect them to identify chords on-the-fly,
because it's not possible. They'd have to hear it over and over in
different contexts to really understand what it really is.
-------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu
http://cout.ml.org/ <== My webpage!
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------
"Friends are people who help you move. But
REAL friend help you move BODIES."
-------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:55:40 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" <d94-mry@nada.kth.se>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: prog-o-rama 19 dec
Message-ID: <000501be26b9$6be30d40$8f25ed82@default>
Hi there!
This is a brief message for the Swedish jammers on the list:
--- PROG-O-RAMA, den enda programmet i svensk radio som spelar progrock, = symf, psykedelia, jazzfusion, metall och annan obskyr musik, s=E4nder = igen l=F6rdagen den 19 december, klockan 11-12 p=E5 morgonkvisten. = Programmet kan dessv=E4rre bara h=F6ras i Stockholm, p=E5 frekvensen = 95,3 MHz, men planer p=E5 RealAudio-s=E4ndningar finnes. Det blir en = st=F6rre special till Frank Zappas minne samt exklusiva livesp=E5r = fr=E5n Morte Macabres enda spelning. (Morte Macabre =E4r ett = uppm=E4rksammat projekt av medlemmar fr=E5n Anekdoten och Landberk, som = spelat in skivan Symphonic Holocaust, med covers p=E5 filmmusik fr=E5n = rullar som Rosemary's Baby, Cannibal Holocaust och Golden Girls.) --- Briefly, in English, that said that the PROG-O-RAMA radio show will = broadcast a Frank Zappa-special and some Morte Macabre live music, this = Sat, 19th of December, 11-12 AM, 95,3 MHz FM. --- Thought it might be interesting to some of the jammers. Check out the = home page (http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry/progorama) for more info, = playlists etc. We've featured Dream Theater quite some... There's also = $5 off purchases from CD-NOW available from my site, valid through 18th = of Dec. Shameless plug, I know, but the official DTHP does it as well = ;-)Now to some DTC:
I heard they're gonna rebroadcast the realvideo from HoB in LA on = LiveConcerts. Is there anyone out there with a good connection that = could record it?
Mats - d94-mry@nada.kth.se - http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:52:28 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Smith <ktulu@arches.uga.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Conan/Leno Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.981213124739.23342B-100000@archa9.cc.uga.edu>
Rogerio Brito inquired: > ...are these Conan and Leno some well-known programs in the U.S.?
Well, Leno sucks, has always sucked, and will always suck, but he's supposedly the latenight king or something. Conan, on the other hand, has been for quite some time *much* funnier than both Letterman and Leno. Easily the most funny show in the "mainstream" latenight genre. And, since Norm McDonald was dismissed from SNL last year, Conan's about the only network comedy thing worth watching.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Smith ktulu@arches.uga.edu
"Symphony X is the musical equivalent of the Hammer of God." -Joe DeAngelo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:59:03 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Star Wars Fantasy Message-ID: <002801be26c2$560f5970$3e0d84d0@korgx3>
>through the cinemas amazingly loud high quality speakers comes a bass >pumping surround sound ytsejam from OIAL.
Or how about Lando is getting pulled into the Sarlaac pit hanging on to dear life by a laser lance that Han is holding. Han whips out a blaster to shoot the tendril around Lando's leg.
Lando yells something like "What? Are you nuts? You can't see!" Han replies, "Adesso che ho perso la vista, ci vedo meglio e di piu." Lando: "What did you just say?" C3PO: "Commander Calrissian, I am adept at translating over 8 billion different forms of communication." Lando: "Well, what did he just say then?" C3PO: "I believe he said, 'Death is the first dancing turtle,' but I could be mistaken, sir."
-- KorgX3
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:37:37 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Blah Blah Blah Message-ID: <199812131837.MAA10369@adam.enteract.com>
My whole point, for Bafu and anyone else, is that the ears are fallible, and that a 7 string is CERTAINLY not obvious just because strings are tuned low. If you hear a 7 note chord and it's coming from one track, you either have a 7 string (or more) or a keyboard. If you hear a low B and a high E, you have the same. Having not studied the transcriptions for Awake, I do not recall any chords with a low B and a high E. That's again, not the point. The debate started with people talking about how different a 7 string is. I commented because I have played one for about 3 or 4 years. Just gave my perspective. Because there are so many bands that sound like 7 string users, I wanted to make clear the fact that it's not always cut and dry. Bafu, I know you and I could sit with my cd collection and say "This is a 7. This is not" etc. Sometimes there ARE dead giveaways. If not, I'd never be able to figure out Michael Hedges' Tunings (the harmonics are the dead givaways, usually). The whole thing got outta hand when some people said that any musician should be able to tell not only what the chord type is, but where it's being fingered (and that those of us who can not always pull this off are just not listening). That's just such a disgustingly wrong thing to say... I am confident I have cds that could stump even my aural skills professors... gauging by the demographics of this list, the dude who said it is most likely my own age (early 20's)... possibly younger. I'm willing to accept that there may be a 3 year old who is a genius at chord recognition, but no one who has mastered this ability would say that it's either easy or basic. That would be to put down all the work they have put in themselves. So I concluded that it was bullshit, and Manuel hasn't provided any reason to believe otherwise. It was a simple challenge (left unanswered, of course). Then there's the whole string gauge matter. For you non guitarists, the higher the gauge number, the heavier the string gauge. The heavier the gauge, usually, the thicker the sound. Stevie Ray Vaughn used thick heavy strings and you can hear this on his albums. JP uses the most common gauge (.009's) which Vai and Satch and all those cats use. But even here, there's an ambiguity I want to point out. Again, the more distortion on one's amp, the harder it is to guess a string gauge. And it goes further. I use .010-.062 on my 7 string, and it sounds like .009's. On my 6 string, I use the Blues Saraceno custom set (.010-.038) which is an extremely unbalanced set of strings (it allows for some really weird sonic occurances when you change how hard you pick). That set does NOT sound like .010's to me or anyone I know. So clearly, this is another case wherein you don't just "know." As for Stephen, believe me, I wasn't that stressed out. I was just pissed off. I called what I believe to be a bluff, knowing full well that there was a risk that this dude would be a god at chord recognition. I'm just not willing to believe that this is that easy of a thing. Even if he was good at it, there's no way to say it's a basic ability. In this case I present you 2 points: There is no reason to believe that someone can lift 1000 pounds just because they say they can on the net. What Manuel claimed was akin to this in the ear training realm. The bullshit detector went off, right then and there. Further, my irritability when people do shit like that is well known to you and most people on this list. I was just staying in character. If you witnessed how feeble and unconfident I am as a sight reader/sight singer and jazz player, I think you'd take back your ego comment and maybe toss it at Manuel, who clearly has better ears than most of us.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:47:04 -0600 From: "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Star Wars Fantasy Message-ID: <36740ba72af8001@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <018d01be26ae$aab05380$61b259c3@simon-s-pc> from ytsejam@ax.com: > > > How cool would this be: > > You're sitting in the cinema watching the new Star Wars film and Jabbas > band are doing a strange little alien number then all of a sudden > through the cinemas amazingly loud high quality speakers comes a bass > pumping surround sound ytsejam from OIAL.
This has nothing to do with anything...but the other day a friend and I were talking about three major divisions of Henson Muppets: the Sesame Street ones, the original Muppet Show ones, and the various movie ones like some of those aliens in Star Wars. This got us thinking about how cool a crossover would be.
You're watching the new Star Wars movie, and suddenly Gonzo comes in and slashes up the place with a light sabre and sics his army of Storm Chickens on the unsuspecting rebel scum.
DTC: It would be really fucking cool if Pull Me Under was playing in the background during this.
-Brian
"You can't start a fire worryin' about your little world fallin' apart." - Bruce Springsteen
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:55:47 EST From: Darth1@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4498 Message-ID: <dbc935b2.367429d3@aol.com>
> Just to make sure (I know Letterman), but are these Conan and Leno some well-known programs in the US? I mean, those "mainstream" programs, or just those with a small audience?
Yea, Letterman (CBS) and Jay Leno (The Tonight Show, NBC) come on at the same time. Then Conan O'Brian comes on after Leno on NBC late night... they all usually have some pretty decent musical guests on them and they even surprise us some times with extra cool guests like TSO!
Josh S.
NP: Rush - Different Stages -- Closer to the Heart
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:05:48 EST From: Darth1@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Lucky Man (no ELP reference intended |-) Message-ID: <38e3dd23.36742c2c@aol.com>
JK said:
> But I bet you guys will be jealous though when I tell you that I was in David Letterman's audience Thursday night when he had Whitney Houston sing - along w/ a special appearance by Wyclef Jean. Yep, I knew you'd be jealous! Who needs kickass prog music when you have such an original and unique talent like the motherfucking Whitney Houston! Right? RIGHT? <insert chirping of crickets here>
You lucky bastard! |-) Whitney Houston AND Wyclef Jean!!! Two ultra-lame pop icons for the price of one!
Josh S.
NP: Rush - Different Stages -- 2112
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:37:46 EST From: Darth1@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Savatage and TSO (NDTC) Message-ID: <33af439f.367433aa@aol.com>
Joe DeAngelo said:
>No, actually TSO is currently at work on their 3rd release, a (non-holiday) concept CD called Beethoven's Last Night, which will be out early '99. Also, there should be a new Savatage release in '99 as well. <
Killer!!! I think I'm going out to get that new Holiday TSO album this afternoon... That new Beethoven's Last Night sounds good too...
> Was the video Savatage, or TSO? If you're talking about TSO, it couldn't have been 5 years ago, because they didn't come out until '96. The song they played on Conan was originally from a Savatage CD though, Dead Winter Dead...... but even that didn't come out until '95. Nothing else they've done is Christmas related.
I don't know if it was 5 years ago or less... Hmm... I know it was "TSO" because I remember looking at the title on MTV and trying to remember it. It may have been something from Dead Winter Dead (adding that album to my wish list now...) though... Didn't TSO have another Christmas album before this latest one?
Josh S.
===================================================== Most people don't look dumb till they start talkin'. - Forrest Gump =====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:41:08 EST From: IceQD@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Classic Rock Magazine Message-ID: <30d2ae1.36743474@aol.com>
I am very disappointed in this magazine when I thought there was a ray of light to be seen in this country (UK) at last.
However, in the latest issue, Jerry Ewing (the editor) who claims to be a fan of Dream Theater has slagged off Once In a Livetime in his review of the album.
It seems that Nikki Brooks (who writes for Bassist, Guitarist and Hard RoxX magazines) the ONLY British music journalist who doesn't slag off Dream Theater at the current time.
Ice Queen
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4499 **************************
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