YTSEJAM Digest 4502
Today's Topics:
1) Labrie on OiaL
by Mike Pontrelli <ponte@essc.psu.edu>
2) Return of the Bride of the Son of TSO on Conan
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
3) Thalheads and Bumblefeet
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
4) theory
by Adam Cook <acook@tiac.net>
5) Hi everybody!!
by "Michal Mroz" <mimro@polbox.com>
6) All Too Human - Forever And A Day
by "=?iso-8859-1?q?R=D6NNQVIST,?= GREGER" <GREGER.RONNQVIST@INFODATA.SEMA.SE>
7) Holiday shopping? Look no further!
by AnalogGal@aol.com
8) Ibanez JPM
by "J.T. Beachler" <biggestmuff@yahoo.com>
9) Bruce x2
by MusicSnob@aol.com
10) Re: Dickenson's Chemical Wedding (NDTC)
by Darth1@aol.com
11)
by jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk)
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4501
by WarrenDW@aol.com
13) strato, chromakey, LTE
by "Schnipp -" <schnipp@hotmail.com>
14) LATM & Sherlock Holmes
by Uroborosss@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:59:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Mike Pontrelli <ponte@essc.psu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Labrie on OiaL
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.981214165822.29440C-100000@espy>
Personally, after many listens.. I prefer the vocals on OiaL to the
orginal studio albums! He adds a LOT to the music by the way he sings.
My onl;y complaint is the "breathing the vowel" concept.. "oooo I remember
a time"
Otherwise.. I happen to like his live performances :)(
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:41:09 -0500
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Return of the Bride of the Son of TSO on Conan
Message-ID: <36759405.C66DD9C6@home.com>
The esteemed Partha Mukhopadhyay wrote:
> I watched it twice, and two things hit me.....
> 1) I think Conan was holding a copy of "Christmas Attic"
Nope, he was holding Christmas Eve and Other Stories. I'm sure on this
one.
> anyway, i was also comparing that performance with the wild and crazy
> freaks I saw in concet back in June,
Well, I dunno about "freaks" Partha! :)
> and lemme tell you, Pitrelli just
> cracked me up in that suit, with that somber attitude, no cigarette,
The "no cigarette" is certainly hard to believe!
> and Jon Oliva, looking respectable as all hell :)
*LOL* No shit Partha! Much different than when "The Mountain King" was
like 10 feet away from us at St. Andrews, giving us that evil-ass grin
of his!
> who was the second keyboardist?
I THINK that was Robert Kinkel. He's listing as being the other
keyboardist in the CEaOS book (and the new one too, I think).
> and i guess i'm just wondering how the song was
> performed live, if ever, by Savatage.....
Interesting question..... I wish I knew the answer!
Anybody?
- Joe D. aka Magellan
jdeangelo@home.com ICQ # 1872723
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I swear on tomorrow- If you take this chance- Our lives are this moment
The music, the dance- And here in this labyrinth- Of lost mysteries
I close my eyes on this night- And you're all that I see
- Savatage, from "Not What You See"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:40:57 -0700
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Thalheads and Bumblefeet
Message-ID: <000501be27b2$db909460$0201010a@chuck>
Ron Thal: The Adventures of Bumblefoot.
Don't ask. Just buy it. Not intended for pussies, campers, whino-s,
closed-minded yuppies, and 72.7% of the Ytsejam subscribers. What does it
remind me of? The cross-polinated inbred bastard child of Steve Vai and
Nuno Bettencourt.
Steve Vai could only wish he was so funky. :)
-- KorgX3------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:41:00 -0500 From: Adam Cook <acook@tiac.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: theory Message-ID: <367593FC.6C5C52EF@tiac.net>
> From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net> > To: ytsejam@axnet.net > Subject: better ears through a program. > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.981214100930.20703A-100000@otter.mbay.net> > > Greetings, > As for thi theory by Mads, I kind of agree. However, did Ellington, > Monk, Charley Parker, or many of those older players have "formal" > training? They might have, I don't know my history very well, but if they > didn't, that kind of negates this theory. Those cats could play over > changes better than Mads, I, or many people will ever be able to.
Stephen,
As far as I know, during those days (all the way up until the 50's) the primary theory was based on the keyboard of a piano. They knew what we would consider today as the "basics". They knew which chords were in what key and could play those chords, but beyond that they pretty much went on their own to get from chord to chord.
Most of the time, it was only the piano players who knew all this stuff and the horn players just did their best to learn from them. Charlie Christian, the grandaddy of guitar soloing in the 30's, first learned to solo by using the shapes of chords on the fingerboard and then applying various chromatic notes inbetween the chord shapes. Even Charlie Parker was way more appregio based than scale based. He primarily played the chord tones (1, 3, 5, 7) and used chromatics to get between them. He was just much better and much faster at doing it than everybody else which is why he was so good for his time :).
It wasn't until the 60's and jazz started stretching out more and more that composers really got into non-tonal harmony and stretching the limits of the twelve tonal system (Coltrane was the master of this). Then Berklee came along and made up theory to explain the madness. They call it "non-functional harmony". Basically it means you take any chord and move it's root down a fifth and assign any other tonality to that chord. Pretty crazy stuff.
Adam
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 16:11:23 +0200 From: "Michal Mroz" <mimro@polbox.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Hi everybody!! Message-ID: <01bdc531$eb80d440$24aeccc2@ppp>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi everybody!!! I am new here and I need some information about how to communicate on = Dream Theater issues here on this mailing list. I hooked up to the = internet a coulpe of days ago and I am still an infant here. Michal
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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-2 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 = HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.2016.0"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Hi=20 everybody!!!</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>I am new here = and I need some=20 information about how to communicate on Dream Theater issues here on = this=20 mailing list. I hooked up to the internet a coulpe of days ago and I am = still an=20 infant here.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><STRONG>Michal</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:48 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?R=D6NNQVIST,?= GREGER" <GREGER.RONNQVIST@INFODATA.SEMA.SE> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: All Too Human - Forever And A Day Message-ID: <199812142348.AzVl@memo-smtp.sto.sema.se>
--- Inkommet fr=E5n INFODATA.SVA0193 +46 670 160 60 98-12-15 00.48
ALL TOO HUMAN - Forever and a Day TEXAS Rating: * * * * 1998 R/R RECORDS ATH-0189-RR Total time: 46:32 minutes
Songs: 1. What Do You Call Me Now? 2. Intro/Forever and a Day 3. Life Begins Anew 4. An Untitled Masterpiece 5. A Walk through Iowa Park 6. Souls on A Mortal High 7. Dismal Array 8. The Limits of Man 9. Camel's Revenge
The members of All Too Human: Chris Lucci - Drums and Percussion Chris McIuan - Electric- and Acoustic Guitars Maurice Taylor - Bass, Acoustic guitar, Keyboards Paul Vander - Vocals
All Too Human is a band from Texas who plays progressive metal. This is their self-produced and self financed debut CD. Groups such as Rush, Queensryche, Dream Theater, Led Zeppelin, Marillion and Black Sabbath influence them. Fans of Queensryche will probably love this CD. The singer Paul Vander sounds very influenced by Geoff Tate (Queensryche) and Geddy Lee (Rush). Sometimes you can almost mistake him for being Geoff Tate. A very good comparison as I think that Geoff Tate is one of the best rock singers in the world. After hearing Paul Vander sing, I think that he's up there too with the "big guys".
The main part of the songs has their origins in a project called Muzix that Maurice Taylor and Chris Lucci were playing in. The songs are built up around very effective bass and guitar riffs, with many tempo changes and arrangements. Beside the singer Paul Vander, the drummer Chris Lucci is very impressive too.
My favorite tracks are "What Do You Call Me Now?", "Forever and a Day", "Life Begins Anew", "The Limits of Man" and "Camel's Revenge". The song "Dismal Array" contains sound samples of the creature Abe from the game "Odd World" together with other sounds from "Odd World". A funny thing for those of you who are into this excellent game. I sure am!
This is a very impressive album for being a self produced debut CD.
The band is currently working on new material, and is planning to begin the recordings for a new album in the beginning of 1999. I think that it will show you a band which has developed a lot because of the maturity this album has given them.
Website : http://www.alltoohuman.com Email : alltoohu@slip.net
-Reviewed by Greger Ronnqvist-
------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: greger.ronnqvist@infodata.sema.se
Snail Mail: Greger Ronnqvist Risselasvagen 66 B 833 35 Stromsund Sweden
ICQ No: 17275819
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---- 98-12-15 00.48 ---- S=E4nt till --------------------------- -> ytsejam(a)ax.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:13:29 EST From: AnalogGal@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Holiday shopping? Look no further! Message-ID: <8f9a1cbf.3675a9a9@aol.com>
Happy holidays, everyone!
Here are my top five recommendations for your holiday shopping list. (Just my suggestions, mind you, lest I be accused of using arm-twisting tactics. D'oh!)
1. Zero Hour - Self-titled 2. Event - "Electric Skies" 3. Crucible - "Tall Tales" 4. Union - Self-titled (ACK! A non-prog band!! For shame, Webmistress!! FOR SHAME!) 5. Fear Factory - "Obsolete" (Egads! Another non-prog band! She's outta control!!)
Hope you dig these CDs as much as I do! :)
Peace! Christina http://dereksherinian.com NP: Zero Hour
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:31:22 +0000 (GMT) From: "J.T. Beachler" <biggestmuff@yahoo.com> To: The Ytsejam <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Ibanez JPM Message-ID: <19981215003122.17246.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
does anyone have an idea as to what the '99 JPM will be? I'm trying to decide if I should buy one now or wait for the new one.
jtb
_________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:01:37 EST From: MusicSnob@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Bruce x2 Message-ID: <52a8a708.3675b4f1@aol.com>
Alabama someone drawled >>Ps. I still think you can hear Bruce on the backing Vox of LAD (and if >>so...how's that done live then..?).
What you are probably hearing is Adrian Smith. Or maybe on Aces High, it's the vocal "chorus" effect.
Kevin Madden
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:49:08 EST From: Darth1@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Dickenson's Chemical Wedding (NDTC) Message-ID: <4d0a0962.3675ce24@aol.com>
In a message dated 12/14/98 3:54:18 PM Central Standard Time, ytsejam@ax.com writes:
> The Chemical Wedding....oooh, what an album. I like this. Far better > than anything Maiden's done since Bruce left.
GREAT ALBUM!! If you like anything vaguely close to Iron Maiden, get this immediately! I was just listening to it today. The lyrics have alot of symbolism and Bruce's voice sound's better than ever.
My .0002 cents
Josh S.
NP: Trans-Siberian Orchestra - Christmas Eve / Sarajevo 12/24
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:45:36 -0500 From: jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Message-ID: <v01540b02b29b5298452d@[168.122.10.79]>
If anyone besides me has been wondering exactly what it is that Dream Theater has been playing regularly in the middle of "Metropolis Part I" for awhile now and still does not know, I recently received the answer from the Soy Bomber himself. (Thank you again, Mr. Portnoy.) I'm referring to the section that appears around six minutes into the track on _Once in a Livetime_. Anyone interested can let me know.
Jeff Falk jefffalk@bu.edu
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:55:00 EST From: WarrenDW@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4501 Message-ID: <c32ee197.3675eba4@aol.com>
In a message dated 12/14/98 1:53:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, ytsejam@ax.com writes:
<< Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:49:39 -0500 (EST) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: The Adventures of flight Y777SE Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.981214102725.24787A-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu> As he struggled to stay awake, captain Borzilleri gazed out of his cockpit at the inky blackness, pierced only by the lights of the metropolis of Houston he was approaching. Suddenly, he felt a hollow shudder from the bowels of the aircraft. With a glance to the silent man beside him, his copilot, capt. Korg ('maybe he never says anything because he's a keyboard,' he thought on a brief tangent), he quickly called the
AND...I can only add how refreshing it is to see someone actually post online after taking enough hits of acid for 20 people...kinda restores one's faith in humanity. Warren in Oregon....By The Way...please read the following only if you are Mark Metzger..frequent poser...I mean poster, on the Jam------------------------------------- (P.S. Mark Metzge- (name incomplete to protect his (or her) identity)...loves to smoke the 'white owls'.....pictures at url http:\\www.billclinton&malefriendnamed Mark.com....MARK SEND ME $ 20.00 IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THESE HIGHLY GRAPHIC PICTURES OFF THE NET..your "friend", Warren in (Heterosexual-and-proud-of-it) Oregon PS Mark...Verrry Funy!! cc: Mike Portnoy
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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:28:00 PST From: "Schnipp -" <schnipp@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: strato, chromakey, LTE Message-ID: <19981215052802.19983.qmail@hotmail.com>
hi all,
first I think it's forth dimension, not fifth dimension. Secondly, I got Chroma Key's album and I like it very much. The first thing that came to my mind was Peter Gabriel, but that's not a bad thing. Finally, I contemplated, that Pardigm Shift might have resolved from a jam over the Mission Impossible theme. Any thoughts.
Happy holidays, Schnipp
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:41:50 EST From: Uroborosss@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: LATM & Sherlock Holmes Message-ID: <a1761b9c.3675f69e@aol.com>
This is a LONG POST. If you aren't a guitar player, DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY.
> From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> > Subject: LaBrie on OiaL > > Unlike LaTM, Labrie IS NOT OVERDUBBED on OiaL.
"Live At The Marquee" is vocally overdubbed? When was this discovered? I haven't listened to it in a few months, but should I bust out the disc and start paying attention? It didn't hit me like the tracks on "A Change of Seasons" did as being an overdubbed performance...
---- > From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> > Subject: More fun > > There's only a couple comments I'm gonna make about Bafu's last post(s).
(assuming God exists) THANK GOD. :)
> I apologize about the gas station comment. It wasn't intended to mean > "people who have to work are beneath me" because that wouldn't make > sense for me to say... I WORK TOO. I meant it more as "these people are > in for a rude awakening when they find out they can't cut it as a > musician."
"I can't wait to see what internet mailing-list those losers end up moderating."
:)
> As for music majors, I go to a school wherein there aren't a whole lot of > slackers in the music program. This too was an ill stated point on my > part, but Bafu, I do not accept that people who are not trained will > develop the same ear abilities as those who go through a structured > program.
I agree. Look at this way: most of the people with perfect pitch DEVELOPED perfect pitch. That skill wouldn't have surfaced unless it had been honed through studying. A gas station attendant could POTENTIALLY have perfect pitch, but he may never know because he may never meet the teacher capable of training his ears, like Obi Wan unto Luke Skywalker. I agree that there's a higher number of perfect-pitchers and skilled earisans among music majors than there are non-music majors.
> And I noticed something in my last post that I wanted to comment on before > Bafu did. When I said "Bafu and I could sit with my cd collection and > say..." regarding the presence of 7 strings, I meant we could sit there > and guess at them (and I would know most of em because I know a bit about > the bands), not that I think Bafu and I have better ears than anyone.
"I'm the best listener you ever met! You ain't got NO ONE down there who can listen as good as me. I'll listen CIRCLES around you guys!!"
"Call back on Monday, my manager isn't here."
"I know he ain't, cause I'm LISTENING! Now LISTEN to me, I got eahz you ain't NEVER talked to! I can hear ya freakin' HEART beatin' over da phone!!"
> Lastly, Bafu, one can't "hear" the action on someone's guitar unless the > strings are buzzing against something.
Stop saying "one" when you should be saying "YOU." :) I can tell you right now just by listening to Shawn Lane play faster than anyone else on Earth that the action of his strings aren't as high as mine. Lane has said himself that if the action is low enough he doesn't even have to think about the picking, he just GOES. But when I hear Satriani on "Surfing With The Alien" doing harmonic rocketships blasting off into space, I can tell you his strings are further away from the frets than my strings are. I'd never be able to play something like "Ice 9" the way my action is set up.
> How do you "hear the action" or are you just basing that on what he played?
Excellent question.
I'm basing it completely on what he played. Keep in mind that the questions I asked Eckie went in a particular order. They weren't random, one thing did lead to another, and I wouldn't have ended up with the conclusions I did if Eckie had answered my questions differently. Chronological steps are *extremely* important when deciphering how something is being played.
Example: I'm not going to start figuring out a riff by asking myself "is he using a whammy pedal?" when BEFORE thinking about external help I need to be asking "does he need one hand on the bar in order to do that lick, making the notes I hear completely hammer-ons and pull-offs of the left hand?" If the answer is "NO, he could be doing that with just his hands, so a lot of the stuff I think is whammy barrage could be incredible legato technique..." it would make me think the player had good legato skills and seriously strong hands, and all future questions would be checked against these established facts. Nothing would hit my ears without me first thinking to myself "he's got legato... his left hand can do that without the help of his right... just because *I* need my right hand tapping this part doesn't mean *he* needs his right hand tapping this part because he can trill with one hand as fast as I can trill with two-hand tapping... he might not be using the whammy bar there..."
The guitarist I'm referring to is Vito Bratta, and I asked myself all those questions while trying to learn the first minute of the "Mane Attraction" album. Once I settled the initial question of "one hand on the bar or not?" and found that the lick could be played without a whammy bar at all (the lick in question comes from :24 of "Lights & Thunder") I concluded that yes indeed, Bratta had massive legato skills. What did that lead to? Where did that information take me? Well, obviously Bratta didn't need a whammy bar for the fluidity but could pull off most of it with just his left hand and a little help from his right. From there my questioning went in a completely different direction than if I had reached an answer of "Wait a minute, that's not a whammy bar at all. In fact there is no evidence on this album that suggest Mr. Bratta is using a floating tremolo." If I concluded that Bratta played a locked-tremolo guitar, I'd never have asked myself "does he have one hand on the bar?" in the first place. Does any of that make sense?
So back to Eckie. What he played was total shred. There were no huge yanks of the whammy bar or anything else that required high action. What Eckie played was really fast, involving not only a fast left hand but really fast PICKING. I heard the clicking of the pick and asked him if he was using something super-heavy. Sounded like he was chopping wood. Eckie admitted that his pick was big and heavy and not something you'd want to try chewing on.
Before the question of high or low action, I thought, "Okay, he's got a super- heavy pick and he's playing really fast. What kind of strings might he be using? Well let's take one extreme and work from there. Who uses a super-heavy pick with .008-gauge strings?" This is an unlikely combination because heavy picks can slice weak strings, another piece of info I had gleaned from personal experience. (Aluminum picks just don't appreciate the delicate nature of .008s) It's even MORE unlikely a combination when someone picks as fast as Eckie was picking. The strings had to be something heavy enough to withstand the super-heavy pick flying back and forth at the speed of light. Aside from the string-resiliency necessary to be doing what Eckie was doing, the crunchy attack was there, and sonically it wouldn't have been as aggressive-sounding if the strings were .008s.
Sure, heavy picks sound different than those paper-thin Fender Extra Lights, but there are two sounds that come from a pick - the click from the pick against the strings and the RESONANCE of the string caused by the strength of the pick. A light pick against .012s doesn't sound like a heavy pick against 008s. Well I could hear the click of Eckie's pick, and I could hear how his notes were resonating. If the heavy pick was making those clicks and allowing those long notes to be heard, the strings HAD to be heavier than .008s. For anyone who's lost by now, this conclusion is based on the physical strength- requirements of the strings in combination with a heavy pick and fast notes, and the sonic quality of the notes I was hearing.
Put all this together, and you might understand why I said, "Eckie, no way could you be using .009s or .008s. I think you're using .010s, and if not 010s exactly then something heavier." Eckie said I was correct, that he was using .010s. I based that question not just on what I heard, but what I knew. One thing led to another. Then came the question of action
Based on Eckie's speed, I asked myself "would someone be able to left-hand finger a bunch of notes that quickly with really high action?" My answer was no, that low-action made shredding easier. Based on personal experience I can tell you that high-action strings breathe new life into a whammy bar but seriously increase the difficulty of shredding. So low action means easier shredding. Combine that with the total lack of whammy bar usage, and a theory arises. Combine that theory with the knowledge that this guy's using heavy strings and a heavy pick, and a QUESTION arises, one that if asked in a particular way will yield the exact answer I'm looking for. It all just made sense that Eckie's string-action would be extremely low. So I asked Eckie if his action was really low and he said yes.
> There's a difference between playing Sherlock Holmes (which I think you do > very often and well, though sometimes to a fault) and being a witness to the > crime.
What does it mean to do something "to a fault?" > Warmth and Damnation, > > - Chris
We damn you a Merry Christmas,
Bafu Vai
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4502 **************************
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