YTSEJAM Digest 4510
Today's Topics:
1) Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards)
by "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4507
by "Simon John Dodd" <S.J.Dodd1@student.derby.ac.uk>
3) In support of Lisa Marie
by "Neil Gallop" <nga@software-ag.de>
4) Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards)
by Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net>
5) Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards)
by "Graham Boyle" <icarus@sydney.net>
6) More LaBrie and general assininity
by Adam Pye <alpine@bellsouth.net>
7) Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards)
by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
8) Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards)
by "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com>
9) gg: RE: Re: Explorers Club (fwd)
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
10) XMAS CD 99 !!!
by Marco Petrini <mpetrini@tin.it>
11) The Great Geoff & James Debate
by "Geoffrey Simmons" <radharc@aculink.net>
12) Rotten Egg
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
13) Re: instrument playing Jammers
by DragynLMC3@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:33:20 -0500
From: "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards)
Message-ID: <390762D98D63D2118C280060081358CC414285@HAMSXHA2>
>For the record, it was a poll for people on the Perpetual Motion
>bulletin board, so of course it wouldn't be open to Ytsejam subscribers
(unless
>you also happen to visit the PM board). Please forgive us all for someone
>forwarding the results here, and disrupting your little world.
Then maybe it should have been kept there. I, for one, don't recall any
offers by anyone to vote in this poll (a word that I use very loosely)
posted to the 'jam. How convenient for those who post to PM and want to
incite those of us on the 'jam with the results. If "the Perpetual Motion
Awards poll was conducted by and FOR the people that post on the
Perpetual Motion Bulletin Board", then why were we subjected to the
extremely
opinionated results? What's even more laughable is that when someone
commented on the absolute absurdity of the poll, people came to its defense
as though it were canon!
Bah. Any so-called 'poll' that has a category named 'Shit-Eater' isn't
worth the weight of the paper it's printed on.
Nicholas Giannotti x6745
Joint STARS Contracts
giannottin@hanscom.af.mil
----------------------------------
Sometimes, a view from sinless eyes
centers our perspective, and pacifies our cries
Sometimes, the anguish we survive,
and the mysteries we nurture,
are the fabrics of our lives....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:33:14 GMT
From: "Simon John Dodd" <S.J.Dodd1@student.derby.ac.uk>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4507
Message-ID: <2F60363998@sdk1.derby.ac.uk>
Issac Sabetai had a long comment to make about musicianship seeming
to take precedence over songs. Which made me wonder: how many people
on the 'Jam DON'T play an instrument of any sort (or even, just
guitar or drums). And how many people actually listen to DT etc. just
for the music?
(by the way, I'm asking, not digging)
Si
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:50:08 +0100
From: "Neil Gallop" <nga@software-ag.de>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: In support of Lisa Marie
Message-ID: <000201be29d4$ec543620$2fa1bd9d@pcnga.software-ag.de>
Hi all
Lisa Marie's view of the Perpetual Motion poll was spot on. For once
there was a poll from a wide range of opinions that wasn't blatantly
rigged, and some people here act like somebody pissed on their
wheaties just because Dream Theater didn't come top in all categories.
Face reality, there are other sorts of music out there other than just
prog and metal (thank goodness) and a lot of people actually have the
nerve to prefer this stuff - shocking, isn't it? If Dream Theater had
come
top in all (positive) categories, it would have meant one of two things:
- the poll was rigged
- the poll was conducted via the Ytsejam mailing list exclusively.
The same applies to those people who claim "those who can do, those
who can't become critics". Following this argument to its conclusion
would mean that critics who write glowing reviews of Dream Theater
or other prog bands haven't got a fucking clue what they are on about.
A sort of own-goal wouldn't you say? Yet these self-same people are
more than ready to hold up positive reviews as examples of just how
good Dream Theater are and how clever we all are to like this band.
I for one find it very easy to overload on prog or prog metal, and I
must admit I'm already finding the glut of superband projects and side
projects tedious. In a functioning democracy, you will hopefully always
encounter people who don't share your opinion - try and explain your
point of view by all means, but also respect the other person's point
of view.
Now returning to our normal bombing schedule...
stay safe and happy listening
Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de)
Currently playing: Misanthrope - Libertine Humiliations
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:16:55 -0800
From: Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards)
Message-ID: <36792E77.33C1BDB5@pacbell.net>
Giannotti, Nick wrote:
>
> >For the record, it was a poll for people on the Perpetual Motion
> >bulletin board, so of course it wouldn't be open to Ytsejam subscribers
> (unless
> >you also happen to visit the PM board). Please forgive us all for someone
> >forwarding the results here, and disrupting your little world.
>
> Then maybe it should have been kept there. I, for one, don't recall any
> offers by anyone to vote in this poll (a word that I use very loosely)
> posted to the 'jam.
Again, refer to my previous post. It was a poll for the PM board,
designed to reflect the opinions of the people on the board. It was not
meant for the internet community in general. Just like KorgX3 pointed
out... we wouldn't want subscribers of other mailing lists voting in our
Ytsejam Top 98 award now would we?
> How convenient for those who post to PM and want to
> incite those of us on the 'jam with the results.
ONE person from the board decided to forward the results here, so I
don't see why this should incite the bashing of the entire PM
population.
> If "the Perpetual Motion
> Awards poll was conducted by and FOR the people that post on the
> Perpetual Motion Bulletin Board", then why were we subjected to the
> extremely opinionated results?
How can *any* poll NOT be opinionated??
Oh my, forbid any of you should be exposed to the opinions of another
group of prog metal fans! You might actually be exposed to a new band!
So to those of you whose interest was piqued by 'Pain of Salvation',
just forget it... apparently you weren't supposed to see that. We
certainly can't have people getting interested in other bands.
> Bah. Any so-called 'poll' that has a category named 'Shit-Eater'
> isn't worth the weight of the paper it's printed on.
Oh, right. As if no one on this mailing list has ever referred to
anything as "crap".
Again, I'm guessing that if Dream Theater had swept the poll, no one
would be complaining about the results being posted here.
Wake up. There's a big, wide world out there full of music, and it's not
all Dream Theater.
-- Lisa Marie "Jessie" ytsegirl@pacbell.net http://www.dreamt.org/jessie _______________________________ Ytsejam Radio on Real Audio http://www.dreamt.org/ytseradio------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:17:36 +1100 From: "Graham Boyle" <icarus@sydney.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards) Message-ID: <001001be29d8$c3296fa0$446716cb@graham>
> Then maybe it should have been kept there. I, for one, don't recall any > offers by anyone to vote in this poll (a word that I use very loosely) > posted to the 'jam. How convenient for those who post to PM and want to > incite those of us on the 'jam with the results. If "the Perpetual Motion > Awards poll was conducted by and FOR the people that post on the > Perpetual Motion Bulletin Board", then why were we subjected to the >extremely > opinionated results? What's even more laughable is that when someone > commented on the absolute absurdity of the poll, people came to its defense > as though it were canon!
No one was 'subjected' to anything, it was a poll, that some disagreed with... I think Jessie hit the nail on the head, if the results had been different and suited your tastes you wouldn't be bitchin :P
I can think of one good reason why the poll was not offered to us and probably half a dozen odd other mailing lists.... Each list would try to stack the results, ie. each mailing list votes for their band and no one else, which you know would have been the suggestion on ytsejam if we had been told about this. How fair would have been that ? Oh as long as DT won everything that wouldn't matter... Plus I wonder if Neil Gallop has advertised his poll elsewhere ? Probably not....
It's all a storm in a tea cup, one lousy poll that didn't contain the results that some might of liked, get over it please :)
GaZ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:23:52 -0500 From: Adam Pye <alpine@bellsouth.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: More LaBrie and general assininity Message-ID: <4.1.19981217114302.00a797e0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net>
>Ok, this is what bothers me. People can bash the things I say as much as >they want, but when people start going personal like that, it's when I >think I should just give up on the jam.
Hey, that's funny. That's what I was going to say about your previous post. What's with the "do your homework or shut up" part? This isn't a personal attack? It doesn't work both ways. You can't bash someone one day and be this poor put-upon martyr the next. Jeeze...
>Ok, I'll be the first to admit I didn't calculate the number of dates >correctly for the DT and QR tours. Still, I think my point is valid. So >instead of the HITNF tour, take the Empire tour as the example - that >one really was longer than DT's.
Wow, how noble of you. It's kinda hard not to admit you're wrong when everyone else knows you're wrong. :) Again, let's take a little count.
Dream Theater Touring Into Inifinity - Approx 100 shows not counting festivals, etc Queensryche Building Empires tour - 65 shows from 4/91 through 9/91 (And Just for Reference) Dream Theater Waking Up the World tour - 89 shows from 10/94 - 8/95
For someone who attacks another on the basis of "not doing their homework".... Well, there's no need for another comment on this one - it's too obvious...
As for the Tate/LaBrie content:
>The point actually was: on his WORSE night on stage, you'll never hear >that Geoff Tate: >a) sung out of tune
Definitely not true, though before this tour it was true. Get a copy of the Charlotte or Minneapolis shows if you need proof.
>b) cussed out the crowd (not included in my original post)
Agreed, though James doesn't do that (much) anymore. He's said in the past that he wasn't ready for the super-hyper fans Dream Theater attracts, and so occasional heckling on stage got to him.
>c) didn't pronunciate the words to the songs correctly (small mistakes >notwithstanding)
Depends on your definition of pronunciation. On all three of the boots I've got from this tour Geoff strains to hit high notes and as a result you can't tell what he's saying. So you can either fault his diction or his range on this one. "Children of the LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHTyayayayaYAAAA" :) Hell, listen to the show they broadcast on Liveconcerts.com. Tate struggles the whole way through.
>d) had his voice giving up on him after the 3rd song.
Well, you do realize that the two shows that were cancelled from this tour were because, in Columbus (I believe), Geoff gave up the ghost on - yep! - the third song! :) He said he couldn't go on... <shrug> I understand what you're talking about though. On the latter stages of this tour his voice tended to go towards the end. I saw them in Charlottte and by the time they got to Eyes of a Stranger he was cracking all over the place.
>e) used vocal techniques that sound weird (though some may include his >vibrato in this category hehehe).
He has habits like all other vocalists. When he has to come down from his head voice into chest voice he almost always drops down in two big intervals instead of sliding down smoothly. Sounds like he's getting punched in the stomach. Heh.
They're two totally different types of vocalists, and I'll reiterate a point from my first post. Tate has the fine luxury of hiding behind his backup singers and he does this very often, especially on the past two tours. That's his perogative, but you have to take it into account. LaBrie has to carry all vocals at all times. Tate is more of a "lyrical vocalist" while LaBrie is more of an "instrumental vocalist." Tate sings things *exactly* like the album (if he can hit the notes that night) while LaBrie is constantly throwing in improvs. They very much reflect the differences between DT and QR. QR couldn't throw in a jam if their lives depended on it, nor change a setlist more than a couple of song. DT can jam 'till the audience loses bladder control and changes their setlists frequently (though only recently). It's apples and oranges...
>So you can try and make yourself feel good all you want Adam, and if you >choose to personally attack me to make yourself feel superior, hey, be >my guest.
Where's my pedastal? I'm a martyr, he's a martyr, she's a martyr, wouldn't you like to be a martyr too? :) (Sorry, couldn't resist) Hehe... This email ISN"T intended as a continuing flame - notice the multitude of smiley faces... :----)
Take care all...
__________________________________________________ Adam Pye (Alpine) alpine(-at-)bellsouth.net ICQ: 9382967 http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/~alpine ^^ Above URL for Tapelist w/ Setlists __________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:24:44 -0500 (EST) From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards) Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.981217121928.7121A-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
This whole debate is stupid in general.
Could it be possible that the person that forwarded the poll here simply did so to provide acts that may be seen as "recommended" by others?
Could it be possible that this poll covers a wider range of bands than simply prog? In that case, just the fact that Dream Theater shows up in the top 5 or so would be quite impressive.....
Could it be possible that maybe some people don't particularly care for Once in a LiveTime?
The answer to all of this is "yes", as far as I can see......
It's a poll. A godforsaken poll. It's not law. Get over it.
On the other hand, whoever voted for "Younique" as a shit-eater album can go to hell, and have no musical taste whatsoever. :) It's , I-M-H-O, one of the braver and unique albums of this past year......
enough ranting.
-Al
===================================================================== b l i n d l a b o r s t h e b l i n d a n d I a m u n w i l l i n g t o u n c o v e r m y e y e s ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu OR sigma982@yahoo.com OR theprof@bigfoot.com HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:00:32 -0000 From: "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Flames Ensue. Donning Asbestos Coat.... (re: PM Awards) Message-ID: <027801be29c5$9d01f580$0200005a@kez>
> It's a poll. A godforsaken poll. It's not law. Get over it. > > > On the other hand, whoever voted for "Younique" as a shit-eater > album can go to hell, and have no musical taste whatsoever. :) > It's , I-M-H-O, one of the braver and unique albums of this past > year......
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto.
Younique is STILL the most featured CD in my players. Has displaced The God Thing, even.
Speaking of which, Vanden Plas' new release for '99 is currently my most anticipated, unless Superior is coming back with another very quickly. :)
Stop, Think
Kez
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:50:55 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: gg: RE: Re: Explorers Club (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02.9812171548001.19926-100000@jaca>
Well, just thought you might want to know what people on other mailing lists are saying about Explorer's Club. BTW, it seems that the only time people mentioned Explorer's Club here was when it was released, huh?
(Ok, now you're talking about it being instrumental or not, but were it not for the post from Arash...)
Why isn't it as popular as, say, Liquid Tension Experiment? Any thoughts? Reviews are welcome.
[]s, Roger...
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:06:38 -0800 ]From: William Tindall <xf103rep@svn.net> To: 'Phil Bradley' <makMknown@iname.com>, David & Stacey Shur <dshur@erols.com> Cc: On Reflection <on-reflection@darkwing.uoregon.edu> Subject: gg: RE: Re: Explorers Club
I haven't heard Dream Theater, or Magellan either, so I can't really compare. I can repeat myself, however (tough job, I know), and say that Age of Impact has really grown on me. John Petrucci just tears the roof off, and the writing, apart from a brief Phil Collins-y interlude (sorry Phil!) is really interesting. I just made a tape of it for a friend, and realized again that this album has grown considerably in my estimation. I went from indifference to mild amusement to admiration. I recommend it. It has a good beat, and you can't dance to it...I give it a 7, Dick. Cheers, Bill
-----Original Message----- ]From: Phil Bradley [SMTP:makMknown@iname.com] Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 5:03 AM To: David & Stacey Shur Cc: On Reflection Subject: gg: Re: Explorers Club
>........on another completely different note-- I've seen a few references to >Age of Impact by Explorers Club. I know the album has a few guest "stars" from >old time progressive groups, but has music mostly written by a "modern >progressive" group. Any comments about the music?
I think it sounds like Magellan meets Dream Theater.
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Phil Bradley Mayfield, KY makMknown@iname.com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:44:45 +0100 From: Marco Petrini <mpetrini@tin.it> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: XMAS CD 99 !!! Message-ID: <36795F2D.430D9D62@tin.it>
To all the subscribers of ALL the official fan clubs...
the xmas cd 99 cds are arrived to the fan clubs' head quarters during these days...they are starting to your houses.
Marco Italian Dreamers Staff --
e.mail: mpetrini@tin.it
Italian Dreamers Home Page http://www.dreamtheater.net/italy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:22:17 -0600 From: "Geoffrey Simmons" <radharc@aculink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: The Great Geoff & James Debate Message-ID: <199812172139.OAA14339@ganymede.aculink.net>
Ya know, location of a concert can greatly affect a singers performance. Altitude, humidity and temperature can greatly modify a singer's performance and mood.
"...we exist in a world where the fear of illusion is real..."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:34:10 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Rotten Egg Message-ID: <367978D2.73F7CA04@imap1.asu.edu>
Lisa Marie is one hot mammajamma:
> Again, refer to my previous post. It was a poll for the PM board, > designed to reflect the opinions of the people on the board. It was not > meant for the internet community in general. Just like KorgX3 pointed > out... we wouldn't want subscribers of other mailing lists voting in our > Ytsejam Top 98 award now would we? Hey now! We as the music listening elite have a duty to kill anybody else that doesn't agree with our opinions! Stand up and fight the heretics! They don't know what's good for them! Must we endure the constant replay of that Goo Goo Dolls song on the radio because the lead singer is cute in the minds of 14 year old girls? NO I SAY! SIEG PROG! SIEG PROG!
They don't know what's good for them, and Prog is good! Must we let these weak beings suffer from their incompetence?
> > How convenient for those who post to PM and want to > > incite those of us on the 'jam with the results. > ONE person from the board decided to forward the results here, so I > don't see why this should incite the bashing of the entire PM > population.
We anger because it is a disease, a mind control. Some people call it an open mind, but we know what it is: PROPAGANDA! They're spreading the disease of non-DT musical preference with this list.
It only takes one. Soon, half of this list will be listening to something other than a Dream Theater album, and you'll panic in the middle of it, because you'll enjoy it...AND YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO! AAHHH!!!! > How can *any* poll NOT be opinionated??
Our tastes are not opinions. They are fact!
> Oh my, forbid any of you should be exposed to the opinions of another > group of prog metal fans! You might actually be exposed to a new band! > So to those of you whose interest was piqued by 'Pain of Salvation', > just forget it... apparently you weren't supposed to see that. We > certainly can't have people getting interested in other bands.
PROPAGANDA! STOP THIS MADNESS!
> > Bah. Any so-called 'poll' that has a category named 'Shit-Eater' > > isn't worth the weight of the paper it's printed on. > Oh, right. As if no one on this mailing list has ever referred to > anything as "crap".
We use the term "crap" in the most endearing manner thinkable. :) > Again, I'm guessing that if Dream Theater had swept the poll, no one > would be complaining about the results being posted here.
SIEG PROG! > Wake up. There's a big, wide world out there full of music, and it's not > all Dream Theater.
More propaganda!
> http://www.dreamt.org/ytseradio
The tools for mind corruption in a little encoded broadcasting device known as Ytseradio. Avoid any contact with this vile vile organization and your mind will be pure from the evils plagued by degenerate music as long as you live!
~Eckie trims his mustache and slings his Ibanez over his shoulder
P.S.- ;^)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:54:21 EST From: DragynLMC3@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: instrument playing Jammers Message-ID: <7bde88c6.36797d8d@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-12-17 11:05:02 EST, you write:
<< Which made me wonder: how many people on the 'Jam DON'T play an instrument of any sort? >>
Well, I for one, don't play an instrument, but I did take lessons for Clarinet and always wanted to learn piano and guitar... (left handed even though im a rightie, for no reason whatesoever, not that yall care.) Anyway, most of the people i know who listen to DT have played or wanted to learn an instrument of one kind or another. Perhaps DT are musicians musicians as i believe someone once said...
~Lisa DragynLMC3@aol.com "Things that make you go.. HMMM" http://members.aol.com/dragynlmc3/DragynsLair.html
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4510 **************************
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