YTSEJAM Digest 3448
Today's Topics:
1) Lemur and Supes!
by Charlie Korch <korch@bellsouth.net>
2) Re: Prism Records
by AEllis1222 <AEllis1222@aol.com>
3) Re: kevin vs. derik
by "Washburn" <washburn@cyberhighway.net>
4) Re: Kevin Back????
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
5) Re: Selling out like a ho
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3446
by "Todd O. Klindt" <pendragn@netins.net>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3447
by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
8) MP3
by "Todd O. Klindt" <pendragn@netins.net>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3446
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
10) In Defense of Prism Records
by "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com>
11) re: sample tape
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
12) Another annoying marijuana post.
by Jon Dery <metropolis@net1plus.com>
13) Question about the Hollywood MEGADETH show
by Conrad Chi <uchic00@mcl.ucsb.edu>
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3447
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
15) This Kevin Moore bullshit
by Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
16) RE: Re: New CD's
by Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
17) Another (Or is it the same?) Bahr Controversy...
by Steve Godbout <sgodbout@microtec.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:23:27 -0500
From: Charlie Korch <korch@bellsouth.net>
To: bhansen1@leland.Stanford.EDU, ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Lemur and Supes!
Message-ID: <34BAD01F.2866@bellsouth.net>
>>On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend Superior. Reminds me a lot of
Crimson Glory, if you remember them. This is more like standard metal if
you ask me, even though there's keyboards/piano.<<
I agree. I think that they are a "good" band, but I think Lemur Voice is
brilliant. I also agree with your assesment of Lemur Voice sounding
like DT during the Awake period.
>>Anybody
want to trade?<<
Trade ideas or tapes?
Charlie
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/towers/4404
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:28:11 EST
From: AEllis1222 <AEllis1222@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Prism Records
Message-ID: <da33f4b6.34bad13d@aol.com>
Ok, this whole thing pisses me off. DT is aware of what Mike is doing, and he
is doing a damn good job of it! Yes, he probably is making money off of this,
but really, would you rather he stop making these great cd's? We all know
that if he didn't make these, someone else would, but that someone else would
probably not be a fan, and put no effort into it, we'd be paying 40 bucks for
a CD made by some italian guy who could care less about DT or their fans.
Mike is probably first and foremost a FAN. I'd rather see my money go into
his pocket, where I know it's going to go towards getting a better master tape
for the next release, or better packaging. So what if a few bucks goes into
his grocery shopping too?
Art
P.S.-go to my website, where I SELL, live video's of Joe Stump, with his
blessing!!
http://members.aol.com/shredgtr
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:34:23 -0700
From: "Washburn" <washburn@cyberhighway.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: kevin vs. derik
Message-ID: <01bd1fcb$c231aee0$8ae21ace@korgx3>
>enough with kevin already! i'm as big a fan of dt as anybody, but please,
>remember it was kevin who left the band and it wan't for money, it was that
heeheh. New subjects please? The selling out and Kevin vs. Derek ones have
been going on for nearly 3 years now. I'm surprised Skadz hasn't
threatened lifelong exile for those who continue such. If we don't get any
new threads I'm gonna mention organizing a tribute album and jump ship.
HAHAHAHAH. That'd screw ya. :)
Washburn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:12:36 -0800
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Kevin Back????
Message-ID: <199801130312.TAA00348@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Choon-Kang Walther said:
>
>Hi Jammers,
>
>I met Kevin on saturday around noon (local time mid-europe) on the Ytsejam
>channel. He mentioned he might be back with DT 'when the money is right'
>and he also said 'Derek won't last too long.'
Sorry Choon, you were victimized by the IRC Gods... just another casualty...
:)
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:15:17 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Selling out like a ho Message-ID: <199801130315.TAA00388@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Brian Wherry said: > >> >>You can't sell out if you can't sell. That's just the >> way it works, dude. << >> >> I think you can. If a hooker stands on the corner trying to sell >> herself, and no one picks her up, she is still a sellout. > >Maybe she's just really unattractive. Take that little ho in Total
Or maybe it sounds like shit, like HitNF... or LOAD and RELOAD...
>Recall, for instance (that's right, the one with the three-tittied >friend). Not many customers are likely to pick her up, but that doesn't >make her a sellout. It just means that most dudes don't like little hoes.
These are terrible examples... but what would you expect from the Wackster? :) If those aforementioned albums came with 3 tits, I'd jump on it! ;)
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:33:07 -0600 From: "Todd O. Klindt" <pendragn@netins.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3446 Message-ID: <34BAE073.FC631F99@netins.net>
Graham, I don't think Mayadome are DT clones, I think they fall into the same boat as Lemur Voice, Rush, and FW. They are a band that has qualities similar to DT's and might be liked by someone who likes DT. If you dismiss Mayadome just because they sound like DT did during I&W I think you're being a bit close minded. After I make a couple of MP3s give them a shot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
tk
> > My question is why would you want something that sounds that much like > I&W ? I can't stand DT wanna be clones like Ivanhoe and the many others. > After all non of them will ever be better than the original ? > > graham
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:27:45 EST From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3447 Message-ID: <4eaff1e1.34badf31@aol.com>
In a message dated 1/12/98 21:17:58, you wrote:
>Is there a woman walking around there somewhere with only one mammarian >protuberance? Did she sell out?
someone listening to "joe's garage" a little too long, perhaps? parmet, the fuck is wrong with you, muthafucker?
anyways, about smoking and shit, after the show at the vanderbilt, i was hanging around afterwards, and i took a peak in the bus and caught labrie chomping on a cigar. you know, instead of saying "god damnit, that's why his voice sucks cock", i'd like to take the time to say "james, you da man."
if it happened to be true that he smokes or smoked, boo hoo hoo. big fucking deal. how come no one bitched at portnoy when HE was smoking (he quit, btw- i asked)? i'm surprised people weren't saying shit like "oh man, if he keeps smoking, he'll be too tired to play al crazy and shit." yadda yadda yadda.
ytsegoon
************************************************************************ david y. kobayashi the new york law school thrak75@aol.com dkobayashi@nyls.edu
"i'm the monster you created in your daddy's name." - j. petrucci ************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:37:30 -0600 From: "Todd O. Klindt" <pendragn@netins.net> To: Ytsejam Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: MP3 Message-ID: <34BAE17A.9EEE84C9@netins.net>
to the guy that had questions about MP3s, about the most definitive web site I have hit is www.mp3bench.com. It's worth a look around if you're new to MP3s. There is also some in depth stuff for the MP3 veteran.
hope this helps tk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:48:56 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3446 Message-ID: <199801130348.TAA00666@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, "Todd O. Klindt" said: > >Graham, >I don't think Mayadome are DT clones, I think they fall into the same >boat as Lemur Voice, Rush, and FW. They are a band that has qualities >similar to DT's and might be liked by someone who likes DT. If you >dismiss Mayadome just because they sound like DT did during I&W I think >you're being a bit close minded. After I make a couple of MP3s give >them a shot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Actually, I think Mayadome sounds much more like DT than LV, Rush, or FW... Not being that's bad or anything.
If I had to rank those in sounding like DT... I would say...
DT = Mayadome, LV, Rush, FW Mayadome sounding closest to DT.
A lot of people say Altura sounds like DT, well, I think Altura just kinda... is lame... what did they do, press a demo tape to CD?? Thumbs down on that production...
And of course... Angra sounds nothing like DT unless you were on crack, like some people...
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:58:03 -0800 From: "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: In Defense of Prism Records Message-ID: <199801130400.UAA00394@baygate.bayarea.net>
Chris Ptacek wrote (regarding Mike Bahr's CD business):
> And you're making a fortune, and can afford another price cut. Do > the math... this must be quite a comfortable living. I know I've had > jobs where $400 was two weeks pay. I'm not out of line for what I've > said. You can stop the charade that you're doing the cds as a > service to the ytsejam. You're doing this as your business. You > said it yourself... you make a living off DT's music. That > eliminates the original intent of your cd burning, as we were > introduced to it (simply to make things available to the fans).
[snip]
> I just wish you'd quit this charade of "I'm doing everyone a favor" > and show the fact that this is nothing more than a business, no more > caring or friendly, no more concerned with the bands wishes or > intents, and no more concerned with who is getting fucked, than any > other business. As far as I'm concerned, Mike Bahr has been a > pretty cool guy. Prism Records (and the businessman Bahr) is > another story altogether.
I have been on ytsejam for quite a while, and thus I have been acquainted with Mike Bahr's Prism Records from day one. I would just like to say that Mike has ALWAYS made it clear that the purpose of his CD business is twofold:
1. To make recordings available which would not be available otherwise.
2. To make enough money to compensate for the fact that he has no time to take a regular job -- the CD business is his full-time job. In other words, he has said from day one that he is running a business.
I think that it is only fair that Mike get some compensation for the time that he spends on his CD projects. I personally know how much time it can take just to dub a few videos or make a few compilation tapes for my friends. Now, multiply that time by his several hundred (or more) customers, plus all the overhead time for organizing records of who ordered what and where they want it shipped, plus time for responding to customer e-mail, plus time to update his web site, plus trips to buy CDR's and trips to the post office, etc., and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he puts in 40 to 60 hours a week (or more) on his CD business. (That doesn't leave him much time to work another job, does it?)
And the bottom line is, of course, no one is forcing you to buy his CDs.
Just my two cents.
Paul
----------- Paul Humm humm@levy.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:11:49 -0500 From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re: sample tape Message-ID: <v01530521b0e0958a7ccb@[209.50.100.141]>
>>SIDE A:
>>Funeral For a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding (LIVE) >>Pull Me Under >>Lie (EDIT) >>Innocence Faded >>Take the Time >>Space Dye Vest
Glad to hear it's working. Tell me, cuz I'm curious... what was the motive for kicking it off with a cover tune?
>>when the singer tries to imitate that growly 6:00 scratch; it just >>doesn't work. Other than that, it's great, especially the first two tracks.
But IS'NT 6:00 the first track?
-Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:05:32 -0500 From: Jon Dery <metropolis@net1plus.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Another annoying marijuana post. Message-ID: <34BAE80C.6750@net1plus.com>
> I just wanted to mention something that I wanted your feedback on. As > a couple of you know, I do lead vox for a prog band. I've found that > some pot( especially just before going on stage) really helps me hit > high notes with a lot of ease,and i smoke some (even if i don't really > feel like it) for doing 'special' songs ( e.g.covering UaGM). Is there > anyone out there who can confirm this?
Hmmm... I feel kind of wierd replying to this because I know a lot of jammers personally, but I was no angel in my high school days :) Actually, I smoked more dope than John Lennon and Jerry Garcia put together! Anyway, in my seinor year, I took a voice class as an elective. I really liked it because I have a halfway decent voice. Well one day, I decided to toke up before class and when we started singing (it was a chorus kind of deal), everyone started looking at me and laughing. It wasn't just me being paranoid-- I was fucking *majorly* out of tune! So that was the last time I ever even thought about smoking before singing in front of people again. I wouldn't recommend that to my worst enemy! That's why I have a hard time picturing James doing it.
Alright, enough of my confessions.
Later all, Jon Dery
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:39:40 -0800 (PST) From: Conrad Chi <uchic00@mcl.ucsb.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Question about the Hollywood MEGADETH show Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980112203700.14329A-100000@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
For those of you who saw MEGADETH at the Hollywood Palladium, Did they play 'Tornado of Souls'? My friend says they did but I don't believe him.
thanks Conrad
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:14:09 -0500 (EST) From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3447 Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980112233016.179950A-100000@gnu.uvm.edu>
On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> That's part of the problem... they're buying DT's creations, not > your own. I have a problem with boots being sold for above > manufacturing costs (and since this problem has come to my attention, > I have not purchased a bootleg cd). That's my own problem. But when > you're making a killing on the bootlegs, then I become at least > somewhat outraged, and you're going to deal with it, when you make > this shit public.
Define "killing." The last time I checked, most 2 disc bootlegs cost approximately $50. Prisim Record's "Welcome To The Wasteland" is $34. Granted I have no idea what manufacturing costs are for a project like this, but even if he is making a significant profit margin, he is reinvesting a good portion of the profit back into his business in order to increase product quality and service. He doesn't HAVE to do this, and from a strictly bottom-line approach he probably shouldn't. He had plenty of satisfied customers as it was (myself obviously included). He could have very well raised the price and kept the same production values. But this is not what happened. Instead, prices dropped and production values have increased. Sounds like a fan to me.
> I just wish you'd quit this charade of "I'm doing everyone a favor" > and show the fact that this is nothing more than a business, no more > caring or friendly, no more concerned with the bands wishes or > intents, and no more concerned with who is getting fucked, than any > other business. As far as I'm concerned, Mike Bahr has been a pretty > cool guy. Prism Records (and the businessman Bahr) is another > story altogether.
Maybe you should consider the following: a) The band knows full well of his business's existence. How do I know? At the Fix For '96 show at Toad's place, after the show some fan asked Mike Portnoy about the availability of a CD called "Tapestry." To this Mike responded, "Oh, that's a boot by Mike Bahr." Plus, doesn't Mike send a copy of each boot to the band members? Furthermore, the band reads the jam! So the band could totally shut Mike Bahr down if they wanted to. But they haven't. To my knowledge they have not publicly endorsed Prisim Records, but it is a farily safe bet to say that the band is, in effect, looking the other way. b) Mike Bahr respects the band's wishes and does not release anything the band does not want released. Such is the case with the aforementioned "Tapestry" CD, as well as the unreleased FII tracks. Were he the cold-hearted business man you paint him to be, he would extend no such courtesy.
Finally, I would just like to add that on all the other lists I am on, I have yet to encounter something similar to Prisim Records (with the possible exception of what KAI is doing on the 80s Metal list, but I have yet to actually "sample" one of his products, although I'm sure they are of very high quality). What we have here is a BUSINESS that is run by the fans for the fans. So what if Mike Bahr uses some of the money he makes on this to put some food on his table? I say he deserves it when you factor in the amount of time it must take to put together each project. Hats off to ya, Mike. The check is in the mail.
Richie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:25:11 -0500 From: Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: This Kevin Moore bullshit Message-ID: <34BAFAB7.54D3@ic3.ithaca.edu>
Ok, I'm sure we've all seen the thread about "I talked to Kevin Moore on irc." You gotta realize something (this is for the dude who originally posted it)...Any jack-off can go on IRC and say they are someone else...I mean I can go into a Howard Stern room a just do "/nick HowardS" er something along those lines. Don't be so damn gullible. Also, if the dude who wrote the original message is reading this, can you please give me the guy's username? I wanna put him on my notify list and see if he ever logs on again. It's obviously just some guy who wanted to get a good laugh...and if you know anything about DT, you'll know that KM leaving had nothing at all to do with money.
np: "Taking the Queen" <--Bruce Dickinson :)
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:38:26 -0500 From: Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: RE: Re: New CD's Message-ID: <34BAFDD2.599A@ic3.ithaca.edu>
>> Finneus Gauge - More Once More >> ------------------------------ >> > the only head up someone's ass is yours. > > mindless tunless notestabbing? i highly doubt you were > listening > to the same album i was....oh, wait. did you misspell your STILL cd? > :) > > these guys wouldn't know a key signature? HAHAHAHAHAHH. oh > god, > that's funny. go to doogins (that's track 5, sparky) and if you could > play ANY of that, i will pay you $100 on the spot. > > hahaha. man, you gave me the laugh i needed. lemme guess - > your > favvorite album of 1997 was REload, right?
Hey, go a little easy on him man. I had a similar experience a few years back. I remember when I first got into DT, a friend of mine turned me onto King Crimson. I had pretty much the same response...but all I listened to back then was metal mostly. I put the CD down...about 2 months later I started getting into it more...Ya know what? King Crimson is one of my favorite bands, today. Sometimes it just takes time, and I know. I mean I'm only 18 right now and I'm pretty proud of the musical background that I've been able to build up, and I look around at other guys my age and I can't believe how much their taste in music blows. Actually, its like that for most people I've met...so at least this guy went out and bought the CD...or even more important, knows who Finneus Gauge is. And who knows, maybe down the line he'll pick it up and say, "Damn, this kicks ass."
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:37:02 -0500 From: Steve Godbout <sgodbout@microtec.net> To: YTSEJAM Mailing list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Another (Or is it the same?) Bahr Controversy... Message-ID: <34BAFD7D.5FED3C38@microtec.net>
Well, here we go again...
Am I getting a strong case of "deja-vu" or have I heard this anoying conversation before? Chris Ptacek seems,once again, to be out to get Mike Bahr. Seems to me it would be easier to let him ramble on and let his cries go unanswered but I know how it is and rebuttal sometimes feels so good. The problem is, if all goes according to the last time this type argument erupted, we'll have nothing less than two weeks of Bahr vs Ptacek arguments on wether or not it is morally acceptable to sell/buy bootlegs. And here , I know, I am adding to this lame thread but I feel I have say my peace and then leave it at that. If you disagree with this read no further. If you must flame, do so privatly.
Up here in the cold north, double bootlegs of DT go for nothing less than about 80$ in canadian funds (That's about 53 US$). Just last week, I saw a bootleg for the april 1997 Amsterdam show (The fix for 97) going for just that price. Now, if you do the math, 34 US$ is about 51 CAN$, a clean and crisp30$ less than I'd have to pay to get the same kind of material. To me, this is a great favor (Thanks Mike!). Ok, it takes a little longer to get to my CD player but the bargain is sure worth the wait. Another great difference is that Mike's CDs are actually approved (tolerated) by DT's management. Mike has frequently had to pull some material off of his releases because he was asked to do so by them. So to me, this seems like some sort of cooperation. The material we get from Mike is stuff we will invariably NEVER get to hear elsewhere and again, this is a favor done to me (thanks again Mike!). Like some (most) hardcore fans, I want to hear everything by DT and will enjoy it for years to come so why should I keep away from it since the band itself is not planning to release it? If you drop by Mike's homepage, you'll get to see a list of names of the people buying his CDs. Mike Portnoy (Self-proclaimed DT's #1 fan) is at the top of each list. Wether or not MP actually buys them or gets them as a token of appreciation I don't know, but the band is surely aware of Mike Bahr's efforts. This to me makes it a hell of a lot more acceptable to buy a Bahr CD than any other DT bootleg that's out there and since the material is not to be released, the band loses nothing.
Of course, one could argue that the fact that Mike Bahr states he pulled stuff out of his productions upon request from the band or the he includes the name of MP at the top of every buyer's list is just a setup to make us beleive in some kind of band approval but then again, isn't it a know fact that MP reads the jam?
Bottom line: The stuff mikes puts on his CD is unreleased and most likely will never be realeased. I (and others) want to get to hear it. There seems to be some kind of approval from the band. The prices are VERY reasonnable in bootleg standard so why the fuss? If you don't car for Mike's operation, don't buy from him. You don't care for Mike advertising on the jam? Well the are a lot of people on the jam interested in Bahr's stuff. I myself, proud owner of three Bahr CDs, learned about it on the jam (Before there even was a Prism Records Web Page) and am quite happy about it. Like it or not he is doing some of us a great favor. If you must flame him, Chris, do it by private E-Mail man. And if this does not satisfy you the only other solution is a fist fight because all has already been said. Nothing personal.
Steve
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3448 **************************
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