YTSEJAM Digest 3420
Today's Topics:
1) music for the masses
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
2) Fan club stuff
by "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu>
3) Another Dang Jaxx Commentary
by Len Berkoski <lberkoski@mail.hst.nasa.gov>
4) Acoustic David T Chastain
by <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng"
5) who let Derek sound so damn good? :)
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
6) huh? / keyboard sounds
by "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
7) re:KM & DS
by Josh Wingell <wingell@ziplink.net>
8) what to get first??
by Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu>
9) NDTC, NRC, just a quick note
by Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
10) DT needs mo' money
by Brian Hansen <bhansen1@leland.Stanford.EDU>
11) You crazy **** nut.
by Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
12) A word from our sponsor/Can I find something good to say about Derek? :)
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
13) Re: keyboard thread
by PhReEkY dEeK <lerxst@wam.umd.edu>
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3416
by Brian Larkin <ambicwts@postoffice.ptd.net>
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:33:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: music for the masses
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.980107102801.20795H-100000@bdmserver>
I dont believe the BS that the Boston DJ wrote.
I remember back about when Images and Words came out and 98 rock in
Baltimore had this top 6 at 6 thing going. Basically you could call in
during the day and vote for a song and the top 6 were played at 6pm. DT
and King's X were in it a lot. Another Day was the DT song and I think
Dogman was the KX pick. Never did I hear either of these songs at any
other time of the day. If people are voting for these songs doesn't that
indicate that they should be played more often? Maybe if they actually
played prog metal more often people would start to listen to it more than
the alternative crap we are forced to endure these days...
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com |
|===================================================================|
| Upon the murder scene of a NY Yankee fan at Camden Yards: |
| "I didn't know that was illegal in Baltimore"-Munch on Homicide |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:16:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Fan club stuff
Message-ID: <199801071616.LAA23096@umbc8.umbc.edu>
My check hasn't been cashed either. I sent in my subscription renewal
a couple months back. I sure hope that CD is gonna show up.
A friend of mine received his yesterday but it was broken!! He said it
wasn't shipped in a jewel case. It has a small crack just at the outside
edge and as a result, it screws up the last track. He wanted to know
what his odds were of getting a replacement. I mean, he didn't really
pay for it ("It's free, asswipe!") but I don't think he deserves a
broken CD.
Any suggestions?
-- /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \ / / L. Jason Hartman "And I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend \ \ lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu And I'll never be open again / / And I'll have no more dreams to defend \ \ Univ. Of Maryland, And I'll never be open again " / / Baltimore County - Kevin Moore : Dream Theater \ \ / / "Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot." \ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:19:56 -0500 From: Len Berkoski <lberkoski@mail.hst.nasa.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Another Dang Jaxx Commentary Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980107111956.00964b80@mail.hst.nasa.gov>
>Lowlights: The freaky freaky woman who was rubbing her body against the men in >the front row in an attempt to make them submit to her charms and give up >their railing spaces. I couldn't tell if she had bodyguards ready to kill the >first man to return her passion, so I cautiously watched and waited. She >offered one guy in the front some money, but his will was of iron and he was >not tempted. James swooped his mic-stand out over the crowd for the "don't >tell me" section of "Lie" and Succubus grabbed the mic with both hands and >tried to yank it down into the audience. I think she thought it was something >else. This caused James to switch into Full Battle Mode, looking straight at >the girl with his eyes on fire and saying, "Let go of the mic. GIVE ME THE >FUCKING--" then she let go. I think if she had started to cry it would have >made James even more furious.
Yeah, although I must admidt she was hot! I was in the second row on the left of the stage and she asked me "can I have the honor of standing in front of you" and I seriously thought about it, but held firm. She was obviously using her "charms" (both of them) to try and work her way up to James, and it was obvious the rest of us wouldn't have a chance. After a while of sensuous gyrating behind me, she worked her way over to you guys.
****************************************************************************
Leonard Berkoski III Allied Signal, Scientific Instruments System Engineer Hubble Space Telescope Project
Work Number: (301) 286-6949 Fax Number: (301) 286-1726
****************************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 11:24:02 EST From: <CNG@tcco.com> "Chung Ng" To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Acoustic David T Chastain Message-ID: <vines.3hH8+pgugoA@tcx.tcco.com>
Just in case there are any Chastain fans out there, I just picked up his new "Acoustic Visions" CD. Not bad. The liner notes say that it's all one-take, which is some feat judging by some of the more intricate tracks. Pretty cool material, but not nearly as innovative as Marty Friedman's "non-metal" solo efforts.
Also, for you NYers, Sebastian Bach (Skid Row) is playing at Coney Island High this month.
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:49:02 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: Just Let Me Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: who let Derek sound so damn good? :) Message-ID: <34B3B1FE.794B@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ptang:
> If you only followed DT for Kevin Moore, why are you still here?
is that similar to 'pulling out before you let it go?' :)
let it go, Lou, let it go....
> Derek's been in the band for a WHILE now....
depends on who ya talk to? :)
by the way, each new time I see these guys live, i manage to hear a couple more of the pre-Derek stuff and he just doesn't seem to be intimidated by it at all.
For those asking about the Liquid Tension Experiment shtuff, there are several places where I've found information:
Jordan -> http://www.mediusvision.com/jordan Tony -> http://www.papabear.com/tlev.htm
after getting a taste of it before DT last Friday night, about all I can say is you don't want to be near me if they run out of copies at the CD store :) there were some parts where i actually became rude in front of the Brian/Julie as i ignored them, not intentionally mind you, this stuff is just THAT good. this is some scary stuff! if you like when JM plays the Stick, then you'll enjoy this too, as Tony uses it a lot. there's a 25 minute song, woo hooo!!!!
anyone else notice any releasure info. i couldn't find anything on a release date yet, but 2/13/98 would rule :)
Regards,
Jon
*------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:51:00 -0500 From: "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: huh? / keyboard sounds Message-ID: <199801071646.LAA15272@bertelsmanncis.com>
from washburn: >Subject: DT News of the week.
hahahahaha!!!
from russell joseph: >what they are doing. If you disagree with songs pop songs like YNM or HY, >then go find another band to listen to. DT won't be around forever so why >not appreciate them why they are. Get off their friggin backs and be true >fans and appreciate what they do. >Don't bother flaming unless it's intelligent
alright, hold on a second here. now, i haven't been one to sound off all that much about YNM, though i tend to agree with those that pick it out as the weakest song on the album. still, russell, being a fan of DT does not mean absolutely loving every song, and as i recall, it is not a prerequisite of this list to love every song. i would much rather engage in discussion with intelligent, honest, thinking fans, rather than the DT-are-perfect-in-everything-they-do type. i don't mean to say that you're one of these--i only mean to say, rather, it's simply wrong to think that disliking YNM means that people don't appreciate DT. rather, i think it shows a greater appreciation, an ability to take a body of work that we admire and achieve the distance required to honestly evaluate it.
you can like the song, and others may not, but since you see the need to share your opinion, if you expect people to care at all, you should respect their opinions as well.
from rogerio brito: >other people have already), but I think that, while Kevin Moore influenced >Dream Theater towards a more classical sound, Derek leads the band to the >jazzy part of the music spectrum. His way of achieving this is, IMO, doing >the keyboard-sounds-like-guitar thing and I have no problems with this.
i was one of the people who had made this point earlier. i think the more jazzy sound is achieved two ways: through keyboard sound, and through composition. take JLMB as an example, specifically the "daily dose..." verse. yes, definitely, the fat hammond-ish sound of DS contributes to the jazzy feel. however, even if you were to substitute, say, KM's sound from WFS or CIAW, it would simply sound wrong, in that that funkier, free-er keyboard part is simply more jazzy intrinsically. While the keyboard sound does accurately tell some of the story, the jazz (DS) vs. classical (KM) sound also has a lot to do with the parts each wrote.
--MATt
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:39:37 -0500 From: Josh Wingell <wingell@ziplink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re:KM & DS Message-ID: <34B36979.315F9995@ziplink.net>
"Rosinski, Michal" wrote:
>I absolutely agree with this opinion. I think, when KM was a member of DT >I heard his keyboards in every track. I can't say the same about Derek. >There are many moments on ACOS and FII where I can't hear keys. I can >understand it if I talk about ACOS, because Derek was a new member of DT, >but after two years, when the new album is released, I can't understand >this weak work of keyboard there. KM was much better, he could play the >same passages with JP in the same time. I don't know if Derek can do it >like KM, probably YES,because he is a good player too, but he doesn't do >it! Maybe this is the reason of critical opnions about him.
Hi Mike,
Have you seen Dream Theater live on the FII tour yet? I am asking this because after seeing them, I realized that a lot of the sounds that you might think are guitar on the album are not Petrucci grabbing some strings. Its actually Derek working on his silver keyboard and that funky 4-way joystick on the left hand side (this has to have a name, what is it? Kinda like a keyboard whammy bar...distorter, maybe?).
Derek's sound doesn't seem to be quite as synthy as Kevin's was. I like them both, but they are quite different.
I once again submit that listening to a Dream Theater album is only part of the ytse-experience. Seeing them live completes the experience. Seeing them live multiple-times only expounds on the experience! :-)
Josh
-- Amiga///Joshua B. Wingell (Shape)\ A3000T/060/50MHz/50MB *AmigaOS v3.1* /// Home: wingell@ziplink.net \ 3GB HD/SyQuest EZ135/NEC3Xi CD-ROM \\\/// AmigaOS/Linux68k/MacOS \ GVP ioExtender/USR Sportster 33.6! \XX/http://www.ziplink.net/~wingell\ Piccolo SD64 4MB / Nanao TX*C7S "Spoon!" / The views expressed here are not necessarily the \ "Spoon!" -The Tick\ views of Digital Equipment Corporation. /-The Tick
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:40:01 -0500 From: Matt Stanich <mwstanic@mtu.edu> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: what to get first?? Message-ID: <34B3BDF1.C3B@mtu.edu>
Hello all-
Just wondering what it would be best to get first, the jap fii or Hollow Years or Silent Man single. Which has the best bonus/demo tracks on it? Also what is a list of all the DT demos and unreleased songs so far? Thanks!
Matt mwstanic@mtu.edu
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:52:53 -0700 From: Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com, rush@syrinx.umd.edu Subject: NDTC, NRC, just a quick note Message-ID: <34B3C0F5.5AD6@goodnet.com>
Sorry for the no-content. I regularly correspond in e-mail with hundreds of people on these two mailing lists each day, so this is the quickest way to reach all of them.
I'm having all four wisdom teeth pulled in about 2 hours. I may be difficult to reach for a couple days. Shouldn't be any big deal. I'll catch you all later when the pain has subsided. :)
Quicknotes: Rush "The Age of Wonders" begins shipping Monday. (to all 75 of you who asked). Take care all!!
-- - Mike Bahr / Prism Records - durnik @ goodnet . com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:07:11 -0800 From: Brian Hansen <bhansen1@leland.Stanford.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT needs mo' money Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980107110711.006d0cd4@bhansen1.pobox.stanford.edu>
Ok, so it's been established that DT wants/needs some commercial success. (And money)
I have an idea:
They release an album called "LaBrie". Don't even mention Dream Theater. (Like Savatage did with TSO.) Make it all R&B ballads ala R. Kelly, Seal, Sting, M. Bolton. They'll make a killing!
We know they have the talent. James will have to sing more in a lower key. He can cut his hair, and then make some videos. They'll win a Grammy!
Of course they can release another progressive album under the DT name after that. They'd be able to do whatever they want after success like that (probably with a better deal and support from a major label).
BH
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: You crazy **** nut. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980107111710.1859B-100000@otter.mbay.net>
It's great to have you back, Bafu. The original ytsefucknut. It's been far too long since your humorous comments (with a dash of cynicism) restored humor, happiness, love, passion, desire, contraversy, hate, wonder, fear, wet pants, longing, yearning, life and death, peace and war, frustration, and the laughter of a lone small child standing on a baren wasteland of this charred world... Long live the Bafujam! Be well. Matt B
"That is the truth. Not the hammer and sickle; not the stars and stripes; not the cross; not the sun; not gold; not yin and yang, but the smile... Because they died, we know we still live. Because a star explodes and a thousand worlds like ours die, we know this world is. That is the smile, that what might not be is." (John Fowles, The Magus)
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:57:18 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: Just Let Me Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: A word from our sponsor/Can I find something good to say about Derek? :) Message-ID: <34B3DE1E.41C6@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Joseph:
> I was just wondering what people think about the live version. I saw > them do it at the JAXX show and they really kicked it out.
Yep! As they did at the Webster show. And you know, they even looked like they had fun playing it. Go figure :) Mike stands up during the outro, and is just hammering the drums, during that alternating double time shiznit thing with JP!
Shawn:
> I guess that I'm one of the few people who don't have a problem with > DT doing "Commercial" music.
I suspect there's more people than you might think :) I used to get off on hating things that didn't deviate from the center line. Now, I've found that it's possible to enjoy the music and allow it to succeed without having to pass judgement on it. It's possible for things swing a little from the center line and be cool :)
When some people hear the word "Commercial" they automatically call up some biased stereotype in their minds, and leave no room for the possibility that it simply just doesn't have to be that way all the time.
I guess I realized after a time that there's always gonna be music out there 'that sucks' and there ain't a damn thing I can do about it. I don't need to see Progressive take over world domination. As long as there's some stuff out there that I enjoy.
In fact, I've noticed over the years that it's actually more enjoyable knowing that you're one of a smaller set of people who doesn't need to follow the crowd when it comes to music, yet at the same time, can allow others to do so if they wish. And all of a sudden, you notice that, hey, whadya know, there are others like me that enjoy this stuff. When you can connect with others who enjoy it, somehow the other negative shit just doesn't seem to enter into the equation...
> Popular music use to have at least some talent required to produce, > but in this age the quality has hit an all time low.
I think it's hit an all time low across the board. It's just more 'visible' in the commercial arena. You are right though. I've noticed the number of groups I listen to has narrowed considerably. Seems like the garage/basement bands are popping up all over and becoming overnight sensations, doesn't it? Oh well :)
Rogerio:
> while I also like the keys only part of "Wait for Sleep" (seems quite > a long time since someone mentioned this song, huh? Maybe people don't > like it very much...)
Hey, you know how it is. If they continue to play wimpy songs like WFS and HY, I just may never buy another DT disc...
Oops, I forgot, if it's off I&W, it's ok :)
It's all about Derek, not Kevin, all about the things that you're expecting him to be :)
/me takes his sarcastic ass on outa here...
> while Kevin Moore influenced Dream Theater towards a more classical > sound, Derek leads the band to the jazzy part of the music spectrum.
I'll go along with that. I'd only add that I think Derek (and Kevin too, but I'm talking about Derek, now , damnit!!! heheeheheheheh) also brings a lot of other elements that aren't near the jazz end, sometimes within the same song.
Let's see: there's the eastern sounding influences I hear during the intro to LITS. Then there's that straight ahead, jam it out, rip your head off rock, works for me. The jam on ACoS comes to mind. Then there's the more progressive sounds I hear, like on the chorus of New Millenium or on Just Let Me Breathe (at 2:31, of course!) And then there's the surreal sounding, symphonic rock shiznits that you hear all over the place, like at the beginning of
Fault him for not *playing* classical (though I believe it's by choice, currently :), but you can't fault him for not exploring many other wonderful boundaries. Well, I guess since you rule, you can do anything! Damnit, there I go again. Gonna have to have them step the shock treatments up to 3 times a week :)
I'm curious, though. Is this *one* of the complaints people are having with the band? That there isn't enough of the classical genre being represented in the music?
I could be wrong, but my guess is that it has nothing to do with the fact that of whether they can or can't do it, but rather that they just grew tired of doing it and want to explore some different boundaries. Personally, I marvel at their abillity to bring a freshness into whatever genre they delve.
*------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:24:29 -0500 (EST) From: PhReEkY dEeK <lerxst@wam.umd.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: keyboard thread Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.980107151107.1072A-100000@rac6.wam.umd.edu>
> I have probabably said this here already (as I'm sure a lot of >other people have already), but I think that, while Kevin Moore >influenced >Dream Theater towards a more classical sound, Derek leads the band to the >jazzy part of the music spectrum. His way of achieving this is, IMO, >doing >the keyboard-sounds-like-guitar thing and I have no problems with this.
Interesting thought. I think that in a context such as DT, where every musician is a soloist, the performance matters at least as much as the sound. To this end, even though KM used lead synth and synth string sounds almost exclusively, his playing and soloing much of the time certainly alluded to guitar technique, with pentatonic pitch-bend runs and stuff like that. I'm not saying that was his whole game by any means, but it was certainly there. DS, on the other hand, uses patches that sound like other instruments for solos (like the Trinity guitar sounds in the beginning of Lines), but I think he relies more on traditional rock/jazz sounds like B3, piano, Rhodes (Under Peruvian Skies).... There's an short interview with him in the latest Keyboard that basically goes through the keyboard sounds in Lines. He uses a combination of acoustic sounds/instruments (acoustic piano & organ) and synth stuff (Trinity and Kurz K2000). He alludes to a lot of classic rock influences, and IMHO influences DT into that Kansas/ELP/Genesis mode (don't forget that although Emerson loves his moogs, he also loves his hammond C3). I personally appreciate the stylistic and sonic differences between the two.
-ilya
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:26:43 -0500 From: Brian Larkin <ambicwts@postoffice.ptd.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3416 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980107162643.006a9940@postoffice.ptd.net>
At 01:33 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Brian Larkin used a fake id as a Dream Theater fan >and wrote:
Okay, I guess I'm not really a DT fan. What was I thinking? (THAT HURT, DUDE.)
>Ehhhh, you haven't heard the "Fasten Your Seatbelts" version of The >Ytsejam. Sure he was good, but some people just seem to be too stuck up on >that Kevin what's his name guy.... If you only followed DT for Kevin >Moore, why are you still here?
Ehhhh, not YET. But I hope I can look forward to hearing it at my first DT show. And where did I write that I only follow(ed?) DT for Kevin Moore? I just think he's a better keyboardist than DS . . . or rather, I prefer his STYLE. I guess I just miss the warm, beautiful atmosphere his keys gave to songs like AD and IF. FYI, I LOVE DS's work on ACOS (every second), and there's still that atmosphere I mentioned in SOME FII songs (HK, ToT . . .).
>Derek's been in the band for a WHILE now....
I know. He was actually "officially" in the band not too long after I became a fan. I was 15.
>> > It a shame though, that after >> > three years or so of waiting for this new album to come out we, the >> > dedicated fans, were only allowed 20 or 30 minutes of bliss on a 78 >> > minute album.
Let me repost my response to this one . . . I don't know what I was thinking when writing the first one. Honestly, I enjoy listening to the whole of FII. I like the "mainstream" stuff, too. But I was a little disappointed at first few listens. I wanted to hear another I&W or AWAKE. I know I'm not the only one, either. "20 or 30 minutes of bliss"? It depends on what bliss is for you. I'm sorry, but some of the songs on FII (AL, YNM, TAMP) just don't do for me what most of DT's previous material did (LSOAD, LTL, SDV, TTT). They're still GREAT SONGS, though (w/the exception of YNM, IN MY OPINION).
>cArPe Q-TiP,
Cute. That was actually pretty funny :)
> DREAM THEATER KICKS ASS > AND YOU KNOW IT!
They do, and I do. I also hate unnecessary flames (not that most really aren't). If I've offended any DT fans out there by expressing my opinion, I'm sorry. I guess I can't call myself a hardcore fan anymore :(
cArPe DiEm, bRiAn
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3420 **************************
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