YTSEJAM Digest 3468
Today's Topics:
1) wonderful whino :)/Spock's Beard/Prog/Kansas
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
2) Impact on Magna Carta
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
3) A Pleasant Shade of Kevin
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
4) KevMo, birthday stuff
by Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
5) Re: Echolyn
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
6) Re: Echolyn
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
7) Kevin Shirley
by Andrew Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
8) Re: Improvising
by Jay Omega <jw@winternet.com>
9) Re: What Christmas CD?
by Angus53 <Angus53@aol.com>
10) Holy birthday, batman!
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3467
by AEllis1222 <AEllis1222@aol.com>
12) re: Improvising
by "Nick Giannotti" <nickg@gis.net>
13) Birthdays, Synopses, Weather
by Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
14) Improv Thread
by someone@prognosis.com
15) fates on JJJ in Oz....
by Luke <slslb@winshop.com.au>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:13:46 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: Just Let Me Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: wonderful whino :)/Spock's Beard/Prog/Kansas
Message-ID: <34BFF7BA.3F54@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Rogerio:
> C'mon, people. If you're tired of this whining in the 'jam,
> subscribe to that list {voices]
or perhaps, in addtion to that, people could try posting some DTC :)
best way i know of increasing signal/noise ratio, when you have no way
of filtering the noise ,is to JACK THE MOTHER SIGNAL UP...... hehehehe
whining only adds to the noise (as interpreted by those that define
whining as 'noise') and compounds the very problem of which it is the
complaint :)
to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion :)
<JACK strength=medium>
After several more listens to Spock's Beard, I hope to one day explore
all of the tunes on it. Right now, I can't seem to stop listening to
Harm's Way :)
I've noticed some Kansas influcences in there. The voice at times sounds
very simliar, as do some of the runs. Very appealing!! Any plans for
these guys to tour with DT again? I'd like to see them tour the entire
US with DT, as Big Wreck has, meaning "SB, get your butts to the East
Coast, damnit!!!! :)"
I can see this sound working on radio stations.
Tom:
> Tabor / DerShe / Myung / RodMorg. project
WOA!
First LTE and now this?...and other stuff...
Prog is alive and well!!!!
Bernardo:
> Can you tell me where can I find the Kansas official web page? I've
> never seen them, and they're one of my favorites. Kansas still kicks!
Hell yeah!!! I have the following bookmarks:
http://www.hsv.tis.net/~rew/kansas.html
http://www.kspress.com/livgren/
And for those that enjoy the message in the lyrics as much as or more
than the sounds, here's an excerpt from Kerry Livgren's page, where he
talks about a recent release:
"It is my aim with this music, as always, that it stimulate the listener
to contemplate the subject matter of the songs-which is infinitely more
important than the songs themselves"
Enjoy :)
</JACK>
Regards,
Jon
*------------*----------------------------*--------------*
| Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 |
*------------*----------------------------*--------------*
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:29:14 -0800
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Impact on Magna Carta
Message-ID: <199801170029.QAA22554@gms.gmsnet.com>
Well... been talking to some people playing on the Impact project,
which includes Guillory, Petrucci, Bozzio, LaBrie, D.C. Cooper (from Royal
Hunt), Billy Sheehan... and the word is that, Bozzio and Petrucci have
never played this insane before... so be on the lookout for this sometime
in March...
Chaos Theory goes into the studios in mid February.
Symphony-X's new one should be released mid Feb as an import to the U.S.
people...
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:53:18 -0500 From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A Pleasant Shade of Kevin Message-ID: <v01530505b0e5bcb889d1@[209.50.100.115]>
>>Well, Angela, Kevin Moore plays on the last Fates Warning's >>record, called "A Pleasant Shade of Gr[ae]y". I think that the >>album isn't such a masterpiece, but is actually good music and >>the album is worth getting for that few minutes of "solo"
I wouldn't go buying it just because Kev plays the keys. He didn't write the music to it. When they played in concert Jason played the keys and it sounded the same as "Kevin's version". Kevin and Jason both were nothing more than the technicians who executed the material rather than the creative idea behiond it. Btw Kev played on Perfect Symmetry as well.
>>> not to sound rude here but arn't we getting off the subject? as i >>>recall this >> is about dt! if you want to tell everyone your b-day go to
The thread is a helluva lot better than "my dad can beat up your dad". I think a few off topic posts show the different personalities of ytsejammers, so why not? The most annoying posts are the ones telling everybody not to post. So post, dammit!
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:01:01 -0200 From: Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: KevMo, birthday stuff Message-ID: <34BB496D.5E66FC0B@geocities.com>
Hey there ye jammanoids!!!
Long time I haven't posted... but who cares? =)
ytsejam@ax.com wrote: > ------------------------------ > From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3464 > Well, Angela, Kevin Moore plays on the last Fates Warning's > record, called "A Pleasant Shade of Gr[ae]y". We had many, many
Kevin also made a contribution (may we say that) in their "Perfect Symmetry" album, playing the keys in "At Fates Hands". VERY nice album.
About those birthday thingies... I was born the same day as Jimi Hendrix (but many, many years after :) )... Hope that means I will be a pretty nice guitar player (I'm not even a mediocre one by the time being :) ), and does NOT mean I'll die soon. =)
I've seen lots of talks about Kansas lately here... I can't wait till Monday to get to the post office and retrieve my Kansas box set (that 2 disc "Best of" stuff)... cool! :)
-- []'s /**********************************************\ |* Marcelo Vanzin *| |* vanzin@geocities.com *| |* http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ *| \**********************************************/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:40:11 -0500 (EST) From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> To: A Ytse Besides Itself <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Echolyn Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980116213509.1797F-100000@tornado.ocis.temple.edu>
> My question is this: would anybody who has the cabability be > willing to make a CD-R of the Pre-As teh World Echolyn disks? Before anyone > goes screaming about bootlegging and stuff I am ONLY asking for this > because all of the past disks are out of print (I did buy As The World and > am still looking for When the Sweet turns to Sour on disk so that the > former members of Echolyn can get their money). I have searched everywhere > for backlogged disks. I even asked the guitar player of Still (now called > Almost Always) and the keyboard player for Finneaus Guage all to no avail. > I have these tapes due to D-man and another cool guy but I REALLY want them > on disk so I can listen to them in my car. If anyone is willing to sell me > an original copy of any early Echolyn work I would be MOST grateful and be > willing to pay decently for it. If no one is willing to give up their > original, could anyone PLEASE help me with the CD-R's?
I can answer you in one word: no.
The band formally known as Echolyn *DOES NOT* want the early CD's reproduced in a cd-3 format. why, you ask? Well, for starters - Sony OWNS the rights to the first 3 albums. Id you also remember, Mike Bahr and I were going to do a CD-R of the first 3 albums (which i own - and no, i'm not selling them) but was asked by Chris and Brett not to. If you're going to make CD-R's, then you better be prepared to send the boys in echolyn some major cash - not to mention what Sony would do if they ever found out.
They *have* agreed that if you do want the albums, there are people (like myself) who are more than happy to tape them for you. please: do NOT make CD's of these. You have *no* idea what about of repercussions will be apon you.
- mike.
* * * * * * * * e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com erotomania!: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/ offical lemur voice homepage: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm maintainer of the genesis frequently asked questions list: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/genesis/genesis-faq.htm
(c) 1997 Erotomania, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:43:33 -0500 (EST) From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> To: Jason Birzer <Longshot@pressroom.com> Subject: Re: Echolyn Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980116214208.1797H-100000@tornado.ocis.temple.edu>
> >My question is this: would anybody who has the cabability be > >willing to make a CD-R of the Pre-As teh World Echolyn disks? > > There was a place that was selling copies of "Suffocating the Bloom", which > is where I got my copy. I think they were called "CD Treasures". Can > someone on the Jam help me out here? As for the others, Syrinx might be > able to help. He was very close to the band.
I actually own two copies of StB. There are 3 versions - a clear cd, a red cd, and the black ones. I have a black one and a red one...autogragphed by all 5 echolyn kids. :)
Yes, i'll make TAPE copies of any and all Echolyn CD's you can't find - but NO CD-R's. Trust me - you do *not* want to do it.
- mike.
* * * * * * * * e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com erotomania!: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/ offical lemur voice homepage: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm maintainer of the genesis frequently asked questions list: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/genesis/genesis-faq.htm
(c) 1997 Erotomania, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 19:05:09 -0800 From: Andrew Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: "A daily dose of Ytsejam..." <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Kevin Shirley Message-ID: <199801170304.TAA16465@network-services.uoregon.edu>
>(Kevin Shirley) was the producer of the "Falling Into Infinity" album and many >people think of him (c'mon people) as a bad producer, while other people >think he is ok. He was "accused" of cutting parts of songs of this new >album.
I'm not sure whether or not this has been discussed, but, according to the Jordan Rudess website (http://www.mediusvision.com/jordan/), Kevin Shirley mixed the Liquid Tension Experiment, the instrumental collaboration between Rudess, JP, MP, and Tony Levin. I haven't yet heard any of the tracks, but it sounds to me as though it will be a sick display of instrumental greatness. It'll be interesting to hear what Shirley's done with this project.
Andrew
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:37:15 -0600 (CST) From: Jay Omega <jw@winternet.com> To: Just Words <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Improvising Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980116213101.24622A-100000@tundra.winternet.com>
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Nick Giannotti wrote: > > Then again, I don't think bass players should solo in the first place... > but that's just my opinion.
Listen to "Ashes are Burning" on Renaissance's "Tales of 1001 Nights, Volume 2." If that doesn't change your mind, well, you're just weird. :)
Actually, the best thing about that song is that the middle part is always different; the "Ashes are Burning" album and the "Live at the Royal Albert Hall" discs have different instrumental breaks. It's like 3 Metropolises for the price of one.
--Jay "or would that be 'three Metropoli'?" Omega --NP: DT - The Dance of Eternity (the _real_ ACOS.)
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:18:43 EST From: Angus53 <Angus53@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: What Christmas CD? Message-ID: <67e95d28.34c03126@aol.com>
Thanks for the info on the club. What sucks now is that I just got the returned mail from the old address the club was using. In six weeks, I'll let you know if they are including the CD in my package. Thanks again. Later.... Andrew
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:26:22 -0800 From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Holy birthday, batman! Message-ID: <01BD22BD.095AA260@FREYA>
>> Hi. I was born at 12:00 between Dec. 24th. and 25th. and this is not >> bullshit. Now, this is real "holy shit" and I think you'll agree! >> I'm sorry there is no DTC here. =20 > Well, I was born on Sep 4th and there's absolutely nothing that I >know of that happened in this date. Isn't it incredible? :-)
Well, you were born closer to Jesus than the original poster. Remember, = according to _historical_ evidence, the big J-man was born on or about = September 19, at sunset. The whole December 25th thing was invented by = a pope a few hundred years ago to get people celebrating a _christian_ = holiday in mid-winter instead of the old, pagan winter solstice = celebration called Yule. So, they invented Christmas.
~Chris (who was born on Dec 22nd, the actual solstice. :)
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:34:47 EST From: AEllis1222 <AEllis1222@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3467 Message-ID: <b29af4e1.34c042f9@aol.com>
Kevin Moore also plays on Fates 1989 release "Perfect Symmetry
Art --------------------
<< Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:53:34 -0200 (EDT) To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3464 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980116194745.17297B-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Angellaa wrote: > Zajk > i recently heard that kevin moore ( from dt ) plays on thier ( fates warning ) > cd or plays with them. is this true and if so what cd's does he play on? and > what cd's would you recomend of thiers? i've heard their very good. ( fates > warning ) Well, Angela, Kevin Moore plays on the last Fates Warning's record, called "A Pleasant Shade of Gr[ae]y". We had many, many arguments here in the 'jam about people liking/disliking this album. I, for instance, think that the album isn't such a masterpiece, but is actually good music and the album is worth getting for that few minutes of "solo" by Kevin Moore, even though it isn't exactly a solo in the original sense of the word (but what we call solos today aren't exactly solos, so, let's not discuss terminology here). Be warned that "A Pleasant Shade of Gray" is intended to be listened as a single piece, as if it were only one song. It lasts for 53 minutes approximately. > thanx > Angella Hope this helps, Roger.. >>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:13:59 -0500 From: "Nick Giannotti" <nickg@gis.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: re: Improvising Message-ID: <199801170710.CAA10733@home.gis.net>
Anna & Heike Boedeker wrote (at the same time? Wow. Impressive. :) :
>Well, in jazz, and to some degree in fusion and prog, too, large portions >of "accompanying" bass functions are improvised, too...
Valid point, and a good touche. In my old blues band, all my fills were improvised, and I took a solo once, because the rest of the band forced me to (them and the audience, actually). I hated it, because I had to improvise the whole thing, which I'm not comfortable with doing, and because it took away from the song.
I suppose my point of view is aimed more at the traditional 'rock' genre of music (take that as encompassing what you will in modern culture). For example: ToT has some really nice bass fills at the end; these sound really good and add to the song. The Ytsejam, however, has a full-fledged bass solo, and while my head spins at the technicality (sp?) of it, I disagree with the whole pretense of having the backbone of the band stop doing his or her job and start shredding all over the fretboard. What's holding the song together? IMHO, with the example above, the drums alone can't do it, and the guitar and keys (which are so far down in the mix) don't cover it well enough. As a matter of fact, I've *never* heard a rock song that has a bass solo that still sounds 'full' when the bassist is soloing.
Just my two cents worth. Discuss amongst yourselves. :)
-Nicholas
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:17:18 EST From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Birthdays, Synopses, Weather Message-ID: <32bb0ba.34c05b00@aol.com>
> From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu> > Subject: NDTC and proud > > Yeah, arent those moments great? Im an avid golfer and I learned about a > year ago that I share my birthdate with Tiger Woods > > I am Tiger Woods.
I'm an avid guitar player and I learned a few years ago that I share my birthdate with Steve Vai.
I am Steve Vai.
NOT!!!
Okay, everyone follow along. Pat sent Al some stuff. Al never sent Pat any stuff. Al will never send Pat any stuff. Pat will never understand that he is never going to get any stuff from Al. Ben annoyed Charlie. Charlie got mad at Ben. Ben never read any of Charlie's replies because Ben isn't subscribed to this mailing list. Charlie will never really know if Ben fantasizes about him. Mike Bahr makes more money per bootleg disc sold than Derek Sherinian makes per Dream Theater album sold. Chris Ptacek not make bootleg or album. Chris make trouble. Chris no like Mike. Mike no like Chris. Ben want orgy with Mike and Chris and Charlie and Al and Pat. Ben no want get near Derek Sherinian.
Tomorrow's weather forecast: Thunder. Lightning. Minnie Driver. HARD RAIN. (I know, it would have been cool to have worked "warm front" or "high-pressure system" or stuff about "moisture" into the forecast, but then I'd be just another Lexus Texas Sexist Pig. Oink oink.)
Dream Theater RULES!!! Where can I find a transcription for the twin-solo passage in "Just Let Me Breathe" or do I have to transcribe the f'ing thing myself?!?!
Bafu Vai
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:38:55 +0000 From: someone@prognosis.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Improv Thread Message-ID: <199801170731.XAA14986@odin.ax.com>
> From: Anna & Heike Boedeker <boedeker@netcologne.de> > Subject: Re: Improvising
> Nick Giannotti: > >>I don't really understand this comparison, because I think every player > >>can improvise. It's just that the better you can handle your instrument, > >>the better your improvisations might get
Not everyone can improvise, really. I remember a time when i couldn't improv at all. And you have to draw the line at which some ridiculous "spur of the moment" noise playing can not be considered improv... to truly be improvising, I feel, and this is just me, that you have to play what you intend to play, and it has to have some meaning. Of course, this is not something to argue about... I don't expect anyone to mirror this definition. I merely fail to justify comparing an improvised solo from the guys in Pearl Jam to an improvised solo from MchLaughlin, Coltrane, Parker, Davis, etc... it's not an elitist thing. It's a matter of respect.
> It depends on training resp. what one aims at achieving... developing > improvisational skills is not of too high a priority e.g. w/ classically > trained musicians except in a basso continuo group. It is highly important, > however, e.g. w/ jazz players, also classically trained, Arabic, Persian, > and Indian musicians. Most rock musicians probably occupy some intermediary > position.
Exactly true. Some people never improvise, and as such, even though they probably could do it a bit, they refuse to (because they don't want to sound like less of a player than when they're performing a piece that's in front of them), as the keyboardist who refuses to play without sheet music, even though you know and they know that they could learn a song by ear. In my studies of classical music though, I find that there is a somewhat renewed interest in performers being able to improv... most composers have alotted times in one piece or another, within which a violinist, etc is made to just play something improvised.
> One also should keep in mind that improvising is not about automaticized > technical show-offs like playing certain fingerings at the speed of light, > but could be described as an ad hoc compository process rather.
I had a guitar teacher once who told me that shredding is like playing Nintendo. It's a matter of hand eye coordination and muscle memory.... nothing more. Now that I can shred, I am absolutely positive that he's right. just because I know that a song has 2 measures within which I should play mode X, and another two within which to play arpeggio Y, doesn't mean I'm improvising when I "solo" with those two concepts. There are long licks that I can do (everyone has a few) that are so completely unimprovised, but that I fall back on at times in a solo that's supposed to be improv... it took me a long time to realize how important it is to acknowledge every aspect of a progression before I consider what flashy stuff I can do... shred is such a simple thing after you develop the capacity.
> >Then again, I don't think bass players should solo in the first place... > >but that's just my opinion.
I think anything that's related to music has merit in a solo. Some of the best solos I've ever heard have been on instruments you wouldn't expect a solo on. And bass... bass is a solo dream... Tribal Tech's BIG WAVE, on their album "Illicit" is such a kick ass, monster of a solo! "Apathy is the "suckbird" on cynicism's bloated carcass." - Dennis Miller
Chris Ptacek someone@prognosis.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman Go Home and Practice!
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:21:05 +1000 From: Luke <slslb@winshop.com.au> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: fates on JJJ in Oz.... Message-ID: <34C069F1.2635@winshop.com.au>
> Attention Australian Fates Warning Fans - I just heard on the radio > that Mark Zonder will be on JJJ (national radio station) giving an > interview to 3 hours of Power tonight (fri) at 10 o'clock! *happy day*
> I'll be listening, and I'll keep everyone else posted if he mentions > anything interesting.
Aye, 'tis true.
I was a bit skeptical at first when I heard this. I mean Mark Zonder, drummer of Fates Warning, on a predominately alternative based, Australian radio station ?? .... yeah right !
But anyway, after 45 minutes of listening to usual JJJ shit (and one Van Halen song) finally he was on there alright and even though the interviewer sounded quite shallow and disinterested, it was interesting just to hear what MZ had to say in regards to APSOG. Nothing groundbreaking, just some comments and trivial facts about the creative procees behind his drum parts and Terry Brown's production.
The best part was the fact that it was on *AUSTRALIAN* radio. They even played some parts of APSOG ! Somewhat of a highlight for me in this warm, sunny, yet horribly prog-forsaken continent.
Still awaiting a DT aus tour...
Luke.
PS. The interview did say that fates were keen to come out to Australia, but they were in need of a promoter or something along those lines. (Anyone got some spare cash to bring fates here.... No ? Didn't think so.)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3468 **************************
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